Jetting: How Not To Adjust Everything

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alienmeatsack
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Jetting: How Not To Adjust Everything

Post by alienmeatsack »

I am sure some of you have tinkered, will tinker and or cannot resist. I know I couldn't wait to mess with my stock Stella's jetting and such.

So let me provide you with a little reality check to help you keep things in perspective... I am not a complete idiot, but I certainly can screw things up like one. And this is my story.

First off let me say, a stock Stella, while not the peppiest, is pretty dialed and will perform for years and years. There is something to be said about not upjetting, getting new exhaust, etc. Hindsite... 20/20... you know the routine.

With that said, When I hit around 1200 or so miles on my 08, I started futzing. I deblued, put on a Sito+ and changed the jetting based on recommendations to match a stock PX150.

That is when the hell we hear breaks loose did. I could not for the life of me get the jetting right. I dug around online and got all kinds of advice good and bad. I dismantled my carb no less than 5 times, replaced gaskets, checked and rechecked fuel lines, etc. This went on for 2 months give or take.

After an hour long call with someone online, I went back to the settings on my mix screw that had worked the best for me. My plug looked good and according to my best knowledge, was running a tad rich. I had a small leak and had to replace the carb gasket again, but the gasket I was sent had no hole for the oil delivery system. I normally inspect/overlay the gaskets to compare before I install them, but this time I was so fed up I just put it on.

And then I went for a short ride. I didn't get far when she started losing power and then died. I stopped, got off and looked and there was 2T oil all over the place out behind the carb, in the airbox, on the ground, etc. The words WTF and OFS came to mind. I checked the carb and it seemed to be down tight and to spec, so I fiddled with the mix screw, and she started. So I took it easy on the way home and she then started making an odd sound and died again. I was not far from home, I coasted to a stop then pushed her.

When I got to the house, I pulled the carb and realized what had happened. The gasket without the right oil hole had kept the fuel from mixing with oil and therefore she was running mega lean and then oil-less minus any residual. I checked the autolube gearing, the oil line, and put the old gasket back on. I went out quite a bit on the mix screw to make her really rich to try and quickly get some oil back in, and got her running. I didnt rev or futz too much until she ran for a few minutes. Then started getting the mix screw back into the happy position. She ran, but was making a strange noise which slowly went away. I knew it could be a sign of a problem but I was so stupidly happy to just have her working, I let it go, but kept her a tad rich just in case.

I rode her for a week or so like this and she ran better than she ever had since I started messing with her.

And then... My world came crashing down.

Last Wednesday, I was on my way to work. I got off the bridge and onto Riverside where it goes to 50MPH and just as I passed 40, I heard a loud sound and a rattle and then she died. I coasted to a place to pull over off the main road and knew I had really done it this time. I didn't even have to have anyone look at it to know I had blown something in the engine. She was seized up good and I was at fault for letting it happen.

I had her towed to the local shop where I was told the engine was toast. And that it would be $1000 to rebuild the engine or $1500 to put in a new one, plus time for jetting it properly. OUCH.

I decided to have her towed home and pull the engine myself and do the replacement engine myself to save some money. Plus, I felt like I got myself into this mess, I should try and fix it myself.

Piston head blues:
Image
Image

After removal of the reed valve:
Image
Chunks of piston resting on the edge there.

Down in the main block:
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Those are chunks of the piston you see in there.

I have not yet pulled the engine and cracked the case, but am expecting the worst.

Oddly, esp odd after seeing the piston... the cylinder looks unharmed!
Image

Oh, and I decided if I was going to blow my savings on a motor, I would blow it in style. I placed an order for a brand new Piaggio P200 crate motor, complete with autolube and electric start. Which is that falls thru, I will get ASC to just build me one, sans the autolube and electric start.
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PeterC
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Post by PeterC »

The moral to this story is, if you are obsessed with the insatiable urge to "improve" your scooter, buy two. One to mess around with, and the other to keep in absolutely stock condition, because as sure as tomorrow's sunrise, you will need it for transportation when your improvements result in a lunched engine.
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Re: Jetting: How Not To Adjust Everything

Post by Eazy »

alienmeatsack wrote:$1000 to rebuild the engine or $1500 to put in a new one, plus time for jetting it properly. OUCH.
First of all, sorry dude, this crap just happens sometimes.

Secondly, WTF??? A brand new LML engine from scooter works is $1000. Where the hell do they get off wanting $1500 to put one in and jet it? If they were a good shop it would take them 2 hours tops to swap the engine and a few minutes of tinkering to get the jet dialed back in. And then they want $1000 to rebuild it? You can get a malossi 177cc kit which would replace the cylinder and piston for $259 and the miscellaneous parts and pieces that may have been damaged and be on a better motor then you started on. Sorry, but shit like that just pisses me off.
-Ian Follow Me
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'06 Honda Elite 80 - "bullet proof"
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Post by alienmeatsack »

I love the folks at the shop. But I've not had the most positive impression from the repair shop side of things. When I had my oil leak, they didnt fix it, said they did, and then _I_ pulled the tanks and fixed it myself and learned in the process. (It was both the piece on the bottom of the oil tank being loose and a cracked sight.)

Which is why I opted to bring her home, learn by pulling it apart, and put the new motor in myself.

So far, the piston is the only real damage I've seen. But I just got the motor pulled tonight so I won't be able to find out more until after the rally this weekend.

And yeah, I wondered about the new motor + install being $1500. They charge $65 an hour, and like you said it's an hour or 2 tops for a pro to do it. Even if they marked the motor up 100 bucks, still seems high...
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Eazy
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Post by Eazy »

if you need any words of encouragement/advice holla at me.

cuz I know I'm going to need them when I start my winter build (if the stella doesn't sell ing the next few days.)
-Ian Follow Me
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dademoss
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Post by dademoss »

My deepest sympathy, the urge to tinker can be irresistable, costly, but unparalleled for the opportunity to learn.
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Post by wolfpackscooter »

Best of luck - I've seen your posts on SS and you always have thoughtful comments and good advice. Sorry to hear that things didn't work as expected. I'm hoping to get lucky.....I bought the Stella because I liked the appearance, liked the manual tranny, and liked the idea of being connected to a piece of history. But I also need reliable transportation, and don't have time for a hobby. So, I'm stock (other than a slight upjet done by the dealer to keep it from running too lean). Fingers crossed.

Thanks for posting here. I post both places, but have always found MB to be more my speed than SS.

Cheers.
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Post by alienmeatsack »

I'm certainly wishing I had left it stock, or paid someone who knows what they're doing to upjet it. But, I am learning lessons, expensiv but valuable.

I am still waiting on my P200 motor. They told me 2 months, so I am looking around Nov 15th give or take.

SAdly, the poor doods at ASC (American Scooter Center) had a fire this past weekend and are still digging out from under the mess. So I expect there will be a slight delay.

I am sad I am missing out on so many wonderful riding days. And that by mid-Nov, it will be cold out.

A few weeks back, I had the money for a 2nd scoot and nearly got a Buddy as a nice TnG reliable fun scoot. I had a blast riding one before so I figured it would be a great 2nd scooter. And would give me something to ride during my downtime with the Stella.

But, then my engine blew, I spent 2/3 of the Buddy money on the new motor and the rest on bills.

So here I sit, waiting. Somewhat patiently.
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Post by Sl,ut4 »

I love how every response here is 'sorry dude'
Truth is, you lost your oil pump.
Split the case, replace the crank, Top end, remove all of the metal out of the case and re- assemble with caution.
While your at it, go STGIII!
There is nothing better than a 20hp STELLA!
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Ported and matched Pinasco 184/ WORB5 race cut/ Boyesen Reeds/ Cut reed block/ Malossi 23-64 Upgear/ T5 Fourth/ Disk brake swap/ Ducatti CDI/ Quattrini Ignition/ S1's/ NGK/ B9HS.
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Post by Sl,ut4 »

P.S- Go PRE-MIX!
1965 VBB 5 Port
Ported and matched Pinasco 184/ WORB5 race cut/ Boyesen Reeds/ Cut reed block/ Malossi 23-64 Upgear/ T5 Fourth/ Disk brake swap/ Ducatti CDI/ Quattrini Ignition/ S1's/ NGK/ B9HS.
01.5 S4 Sedan. Blk/Blk
STGII+ Drivin Slideways!
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Post by vegetable »

Hey nice to see some familiar faces here (stellaspeeders)
Cheers VegetAblE
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Post by alienmeatsack »

I thought I'd give you guys an update.

The motor (PX200 crate motor from ASC) came in finally in December. But I had to wait until my scooter pals could help. So, this past weekend, we installed the new motor. This meant one of them driving here from OKC (to Tulsa), getting me and returning me. Yeah, these guys got mad props from me for their kindness and time this weekend!

And let me tell you, when I say new, it was sparkling clean and virginal looking. I was almost afraid to install it it looked so nice. :D

Overall, the install went smoothly, minus 2 hiccups. One, well, still working on that.

The install itself was pretty easy. The motor went in identically to the stock motor... the only thing different is the wiring. You bring 1 wire from your old stock CDI over to the new motors CDI? and then splice two of the wires from teh motor itself onto this same box. (Not sure which on all three, need to document for later reference.) Your old CDI then is unplugged and or removed.

First snag, in trying to remember every single part and bit I needed, since it was a 1.5hr drive back home for a missing part, I forgot 1 bolt. It was the exhaust bolt under the scoot. Luckily, I just needed to go buy a replacement bolt from the hardware store. Easy fix, but we lost time.

Then, we got everything connected and fasted down and started it. And that was where the 2nd snap came into play. It's running way too rich and we've literally done everything we can think of (we being me and Rob from OKC) trying to remedy it. That we could do on a Sunday anyway.

Rebuilt and cleaned the carb 2x, jets included. (Jets were taken out and cleaned before we started it too.)

But, it idles BEAUTIFULLY. It sounds amazing and just purrs like a 2-stroke kitten. Just can't rev it up yet.

Going to try some stuff tonight when I get home, then I guess I will have to take it to the shop and have them look at it. I hate to do that so wish me liuck tonight!
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Post by gearhead »

omg! seized! same story with my 1978 puch magnum II moped except... i was running to rich and no seize :lol:
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Post by alienmeatsack »

Another update for those who care. :D

Today is day 2 of me riding to work and back, after being scootless since Sep/Oct of last year.

The problem with the motor was the stator. I sent it back to ASC, they replaced it happily, and sent it back to me.

Took me about 3 hours to hang the motor and get it up and running. I was a bit slow since I had to figure out to get the motor up into the frame by myself, and took my time so I didn't mess anything up.

Go me!

I am still working on getting everything set right, but its wonderful so far.

I can't tell you how much more umf it has since I'm not going to get on it until I have the jetting right, and its got at least 100 miles on it before I break it in via cycling.

woot.
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Post by laxer »

I'd love to hear how peppy that bad boy is with a 200 in 'im. Keep us updated on everything.
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Post by alienmeatsack »

I know upjetting and the Sito+ made a nice difference. But this is 50cc more and a Sito+, so I should be able to get more out of it.

The Stella stock for me was top speed indicated around 52. (Assuming no head wind and not uphill.)

With the jetting and Sito+, i could go near 60 but that was pushing it. I could wind the gears up more, esp 3rd.

So I am curious what it can do as well. I mostly just want more against the wind and uphill power. Until I can get skinnier and gain some performance that way. :D
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Post by alienmeatsack »

Starting to get some data back...

After 3 fillups on the new motor, I am seeing just around 50MPG. I've been driving it a bit harder each time, doing bursts, letting it rest, repeat. So I am sure I will get better mileage as I ride it normal and there is not a massive wind blasting me in the face as I ride.

Pepwise, I've not had her up in the high speeds, best I've done was 50. But, I have noticed the gearing is different to some degree. It easily winds 3rd up to almost 40, and 4th really wants me going 50-55, so anything at 40ish almost feels like I should be in 3rd. Could be the jetting and mix, but the mix is pretty dead on... I did put in a 118 main (116 stock) to see what happened and I may end up with the 116 again if the plug chops continue to be rich like they are.

I am using GasCubby to track my MPG and fillups, etc. Trying to see what I am really getting.

I was doing it all by hand last summer and was getting 60-65MPG on avg with the Sito+, deblue, upjetting, on the stock 150 motor.

I was also paying $3-$3.50 a gallon last summer for gas. So far, I've paid half that for all fillups. :D
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Jetting:

Post by PeterC »

AMS, you are an inspiration to us all!
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Post by alienmeatsack »

Last night on the way home, I did almost 60MPH on a stretch of road here that is 50MPH normally, all in the flow of traffic.

I swear there is more there, I had pickup and go to spare... and the motor seems to really purr up there in the 50-60 range like it was meant to be going that speed.

I need to do a plug chop and check the main again. I went up to a 118 to see how much richer it got, and I think the 116 was actually on target more.

I also need to adjust the rear brake. I think it's close but as I use it, I can feel it needs a wee bit more adjustment to grab. Well, grab as well as it can being a drum brake. :D

Everyone should have a 200 in their Stella, it's so much peppier for sure.
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