What did you pay for your Buddy 125

Discussion of the Genuine Buddy, Hooligan, Black Jack and other topics, both scooter related and not

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San Francisco
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What did you pay for your Buddy 125

Post by San Francisco »

This thread became too goofy. So I am getting rid of my posts.

Thanks for the input and help.
Last edited by San Francisco on Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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mlstephens
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Post by mlstephens »

Keep in mind that scooters are seasonal items (even in SF) and we're getting into peak demand season. So, if someone in IL bought a Buddy in November, it may be likely that they got a great deal, which they may not have gotten if they had bought in April or certainly June. I paid a bit under list price last May for my black 125. Honestly I couldn't tell you how much without looking it up, so the hundred or two hundred or whatever doesn't really matter to me now, but I felt like I got a respectable deal at the time, the dealer prep at Garner's was fantastic, and all is well nearly one year later. So make an offer, see what happens, but enjoy your Italias as they seem to be the Buddys in high demand right now (along with Red of course).
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Post by San Francisco »

mlstephens wrote:Keep in mind that scooters are seasonal items (even in SF) and we're getting into peak demand season. So, if someone in IL bought a Buddy in November, it may be likely that they got a great deal, which they may not have gotten if they had bought in April or certainly June. I paid a bit under list price last May for my black 125. Honestly I couldn't tell you how much without looking it up, so the hundred or two hundred or whatever doesn't really matter to me now, but I felt like I got a respectable deal at the time, the dealer prep at Garner's was fantastic, and all is well nearly one year later. So make an offer, see what happens, but enjoy your Italias as they seem to be the Buddys in high demand right now (along with Red of course).
Thanks for the fast response. I agree about the seasonal thing. In fact,
whenever I buy I like to do it during the winter months and when I sell
I place ads around May.

I am kinda curious how the Italias are doing. Are they really "limited"
and how many do the dealers have?

Oh, those prices quoted in my post were after some light dickering, but
I did not yet say "Here is what I will pay."

Thanks again for the input.
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brat
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Post by brat »

Sidenote: I am not going to quibble with the dealer over $100. I am only
concerned because I read that one post that said the Member in January
2007 paid $2500 OTD for a max equipped orange 2006 125 . That MB Member was in Illinois, I think.


Remember that was last years model. You will get a great deal on last years car also, if it is still on the dealers lot. And keep in mind that CA is expensive on the the title, reg and plates.

I am not sure what I paid for mine, I would have to look it up. Barry, is a good guy. If you are really concerned about the price than I would work out the cost right up front. And call other dealers in the same state and find out how much they will sell you the same bike for.
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JokerJim
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Post by JokerJim »

After taxes and tags, I paid $2993 for my SI. That is with no racks and pre-pipe.

I would say if you add the cost of the racks and the price of labor (California labor even) to install everything, it sounds like a very fail deal to me.

IMHO
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ebcspace
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buddy sale price

Post by ebcspace »

maybe you should justify a trip to southern california. don't get me wrong.. I miss the culture in the bay area... berkeley, san francisco. it seems the retail price is about $2499.99 for a B125. ours ended up being around $2800 out the door with tax and all. stock.

world famous motorsport scooters is my most favorite source for all things scootering.

http://www.scooterwest.com/scooters/

being involved in retail sales, I can appreciate the cost of doing business. after rent, payroll, utilities, cost of product, etc... it's tough these days to run a successful business ; to make a buck. customers sometimes think that because you are running a business, you just must be loaded with money, and can do anything you want.

my company offers internet price matching, which often is just above cost. on major equipment, there is often not much profit margin. repeat business, services, accessories, add-on sales are where much of sales success really helps to push the bottom line (profitability). business success is all about relationships.

consumers want to get the best (cheapest) price, naturally. I shop for music equipment at a local music store because I like the service and personalized attention I receive there. for a major purchase, i'll check online to find the most competitive price, then go to my pals and simply tell them I'd like to see about getting a price match on the gear. honesty and communication keep our business relationship healthy.

In my business, I enjoy giving a great deal, as long as it's justified. Occasionally I'll have customer ask for something that just isn't realistic. They might tell me they can get this great deal on something, which is actually below cost, and i'll tell them, if they can get it for that price, they should go for it !
scoot on!
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Post by San Francisco »

brat wrote:
Barry, is a good guy. If you are really concerned about the price than I would work out the cost right up front. And call other dealers in the same state and find out how much they will sell you the same bike for.
Like I said in my OP, I'm not criticizing Barry. I have known him for five
years, off and on. And see my post in another thread where I compliment
the way he runs his business.

I'm just trying to get some idea of what others have paid so that I can make
a bottom line offer. That's just smart shopping to me.

Until this thread I had nothing to go on except what I see posted on the Net,
that is, other dealer's websites. For example, there is one dealership that
lists their Italias at $2599 MSRP.
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Post by mcwbyu82 »

I paid $2930 out the door for my 2007 Black 125 last week with chrome rear rack. Im in Utah and tax is 6.5%. hope that helps.
My wife is beautiful!
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Post by San Francisco »

Just want to say thanks to all MB Members for the thoughtful and well-reasoned responses.

From what I can tell so far MB Members are intelligent, mature, and caring.
I am glad I found this place.

I am probably gonna ask Barry to knock a few hundred off the deal
and leave it at that. His professionalism and courtesies are worth
more than trying to save even $800 on the purchases.

Just like in my business, customer service and competency are worth a lot, things
I am willing to pay extra for.

Thanks again.
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louie
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Post by louie »

there's not a lot of wiggle room for the price. it's posted on genuine's web site.

don't forget that you want to buy from the shop that will be working on the scooters. like walking into a restaurant, you want the people working there to be happy to see you. if you buy a scooter from one place and have it serviced somewhere else just to save a few bucks you are cheating the dealer and yourself because your service may be put on the back burner until they can get to it. the shop will have missed the opportunity to make the sales profit.
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Post by rajron »

I paid a fair price for my scoot, the manufactures suggest retail price – tax and license excluded. All Genuine accessories I purchased were at the MSRP tax excluded. I did get a deal on the Prima exhaust which was on sale and the dealer installed it on my scoot for free. The dealer made a little money, and I’m real happy with the scoot, all is good.
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Post by peabody99 »

I don't think it sounds too outrageous given the popularity of the SI (although I am doubting the "limited availability"). If you have any justification for a discount it is that you are buying two. I know our local dealer gave us a discount on the second which was really nice.
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rossini
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Post by rossini »

$6k OTD for TWO 2007 SI's with racks and one performance pipe is well, let's just say good luck. If you get that deal I need to hire you on as a consultant for all future purchases. The numbers just don't add up. I'd offer $6300 and consider yourself lucky with that. These guys don't make much on the sale just like autos. The real money is in the service intervals.

But seriously, I suppose it couldn't hurt to offer $6k but don't be surprised if its declined. For the record, Barry is on this forum. lol
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Post by San Francisco »

rossini wrote:$6k OTD for TWO 2007 SI's with racks and one performance pipe is well, let's just say good luck. If you get that deal I need to hire you on as a consultant for all future purchases. The numbers just don't add up. I'd offer $6300 and consider yourself lucky with that. These guys don't make much on the sale just like autos. The real money is in the service intervals.

But seriously, I suppose it couldn't hurt to offer $6k but don't be surprised if its declined. For the record, Barry is on this forum. lol
See my posts on what I intended.

And I'm not sure what invoice is on these things. Since they are from Taiwan and
just now breaking into the U.S. market, I suspect they are giving good
prices to the dealers, but I don't know if anyone knows. How do you know
what the dealers are making on these?

And yeah, with a banner ad one can fairly easily conclude Barry is in here somewhere.

Hell, you could be Barry, indirectly negotiating with me on this Forum. That's too weird for me. Back to work.
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rossini
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Post by rossini »

No, I am a customer. This is Barry:

profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=30
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Post by Fresnomotorsports »

As a Genuine dealer I can speak to the limited availability of the Series Italia. I have one coming, and I had to fight to get it.

Of course, my opinion may be viewed as biased, but your dealer is offering you a fair deal. It *does* cost money to keep the lights burning, and he's asking a very reasonable OTD price. I've seen dealers who gouge, and he's definitely not.
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Post by Keys »

I was supposed to PAY for it???

--Keys 8)
"Life without music would Bb"
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Post by San Francisco »

Well, we agreed on a deal that was $400 more than what I offered, but I said that I valued our relationship more than to quibble over $400.

Like I said before, a good relationship with the dealer is worth more than dickering over $400 to $500 or splitting the difference.

Thanks again for the input and tips.
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Post by San Francisco »

Fresnomotorsports wrote: I've seen dealers who gouge, and he's definitely not.
This was my concern. With the other posts talking about the deals they got and having no knowledge of the Italia's "invoice" I was walking into the deal totally blind.

This is one of the reasons I never buy new, because I have no knowledge of the market, cost structure, etc. Walking in cold on a buy, so to speak, is against my instincts, background and training
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Dickering...Sorry - Rant.

Post by pocphil »

Warning: Those who are easily offended by sarcasm should just click "delete" now. Those who think they know everything about everything should also move along to kindler, gentler forums.

How much did you negotiate on the last high dollar item you bought from Best Buy?

Did you talk the salesman into giving you an extra hundred off that fridge?

Did you haggle long enough he finally caved in and gave you a free DVD player (costing $39) when you bought your $2500 flat screen?

You didn't haggle? Why not?

That's a multi-billion dollar mega-corporation that gets huge tax breaks and tons of government assistance. They're making a minimum of 70% profit on every item they stock.

The other day I was at Sam's Club...I left with over $2000 in stuff....I TOTALLY should have asked for a discount...especially since I've spent like $10,000 a year with them for the past 5 years. Hell, I've EARNED a discount, and they're friggin' WAL-Mart! Do you think the thought ever crossed my mind?

Yet, people come in here every day EXPECTING that we are going to give them some kind of discount.

I ALWAYS have at least 3 bikes listed on my "Daily Specials" board. Those are the bikes "on sale" that's where we have our discounts. They're serious discounts. But it probably won't be on a bike I'm having trouble keeping in stock. If you just "have to get the lowest price" that's the bike you should buy. Just like the grocery store...they don't put the coupons and specials on items they can barely keep on the shelves as it is.

Time to whine:

If any of you saw how LITTLE money we make when we sell a scooter, you'd wonder why the hell we stay in this business in the first place.

Car dealers routinely inflate the price of their cars by thousands just so they have negotiating room. Never, ever believe a car is 5% over list. There are thousands in rebates you will never get to see. Fortunately, the scooter world hasn't come to that. It may happen someday...especially if every person walking through that door calls us greedy if we don't immediately give up a $200 discount. My sister works at a Mercedes Dealership in FL, if they can't make $4K on every car they sell they won't bother spending time with the customer. Guess what, it take exactly the same amount of time to sell someone on a $2500 scooter, and the Mercedes customer won't come back the next day complaining how he found Chinese SLK's being sold on the internet for a third of what you're charging.

You prove to me that my products are priced unfairly and then we can start talking about some kind of a discount. Until then, if you want to establish a relationship with me, don't start by suggesting I'm gouging and insist I lower my standards because you're so special.

When we stop being able to afford the rent, heat, power, payroll, medical, workers comp, unemployment, etc. around here, who will be around to keep you running? I lost money my first 3 years in business. I put nearly 100% of my current paychecks back into my business. All of the shops who have survived over 5 years have one thing in common...a devout passion for scooters and the people who ride them. If it was all about the money we'd have started selling pizzas 3 years ago.

I can list over 20 scooter dealerships who have gone belly up in the past year. That probably represents over 2000 customers who no longer have the convenience of a local scooter shop. Each one of those dealers said the same thing "it's simply impossible to survive on the small margins in the scooter industry". When you're only making $300 on a scooter to begin with and you have to give that up "just to move a unit"...you're not going to survive.
Phil Waters
ClevelandMoto
Pride Of Cleveland Scooters
18636 Detroit Rd.
Lakewood, Ohio 44107
216-227-1964
www.clevelandmoto.com
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Post by axiom007 »

Well Done Phil! I have a similar experience, albeit not scooters, but cameras. Some good friends of mine own a camera shop. and if you want to talk about low margins, look at cameras. But everyday its, "I can get for $50 less on the internet." My response would be,"Go for it, who is going to show you how to work it!" It is especially difficult in that business, when you are competing with the best buys of the world. Once again, well said, Phil.
If you are gonna do it, make darn sure the juice is worth the squeeze.
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Post by peabody99 »

yes it is hard to put a price on customer service and supporting your neighborhood business. I have gotten to the point, that for the most part if I can't afford pay more for a luxury item (ie scooter, camera, cheese what have you) to the local guy then I am not purchasing it. My local scooter shop -poc-has already proved they are there when you need them.
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Re: Dickering...Sorry - Rant.

Post by San Francisco »

pocphil wrote:Warning: Those who are easily offended by sarcasm should just click "delete" now. Those who think they know everything about everything should also move along to kindler, gentler forums.
Jesus, people ought to just calm down. Talk about thin skin.

The fact is, scooters are motor vehicles. Most of us don't know if there is
a difference between scooters and cars in terms of trying to negotiate a
good deal.

Like I said, it's never my intent to deny a business a fair profit. If there is
not much margin in a scooter sale, fine, just say so. No need to get all up
in airs about it and act like the consumer is a greedy incompetent pig
trying to rip you off.

Man, guess this thread was a bad idea. If I could delete it I would.
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louie
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Re: Dickering...Sorry - Rant.

Post by louie »

pocphil wrote:Warning:

and they're friggin' WAL-Mart! Do you think the thought ever crossed my mind?
Oh Phil don't hold back. 8) Thanks for the explaination. Admittedly most of us were brought up to question car salesman. but your saying...The difference in saling a new car and new scooter is the amount it cost to boutique a 2800 scooter vs say a 28000 bmw MC or 40000 car. The math doesn't give you much room to make much.
We love you and your kind and we want you to continue being happy with what you do not in spite of...

Costco! they have better employee practices. F walmart.

:)
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mlstephens
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Post by mlstephens »

Obviously this is a hot topic (cool the flames, please!). To those who are in the new scooter sales business, I salute you! It is no doubt a low margin and low volume (in relative terms) business, and therefore every hundred bucks counts. Even though the Buddy is selling well, I'm sure that dealers dedicated to this business are always a bit reticent and skeptical about how long this latest run will last, so the unwillingness to drop price is very much understood. Lets not forget the service that they provide; if it weren't for our local dealers carrying Genuine product we wouldn't be here on this forum and so enthusiastic about the Buddy. As stated earlier, on this relative low-dollar purchase a year or two from now you will likely not remember what you paid for it, so saving a hundred or two really doesn't matter that much. But if the dealer goes under by cutting margins, you'll certainly be screaming about that a year or two from now. So, sure, ask for a discount, but if you don't get it be happy with your purchase and enjoy the ride home! You'll be smiling either way.
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rossini
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Post by rossini »

So whatever happened anyways? Did you end up picking up the two SI's?
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Post by polianarchy »

When was the last time you brought your scooter mechanic cookies?

:roll:

And PS to Phila scooters: make that black seat happen before Charm City rally, and the pizza's on me!
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Post by San Francisco »

rossini wrote:So whatever happened anyways? Did you end up picking up the two SI's?
Thanks for asking. I am actually going in this afternoon to give a check
for the two. But can't ride em home because it's raining. Figures.

In reliance on Members in here talking about dealer cost, prices, what in
their minds was a good deal, fair deal, etc., I basically threw in the towel
on trying to save a few bucks. Besides, like I said, a good dealer
relationship is more important than saving $500 or so.

Since I was tossing around numbers in here and everyone else did too,
I'll disclose the deal.

Two Buddy Italias:

One with front and rear racks.

Mine with the racks and perf. pipe.

Total for both out the door: $6500. [California has 8.5% sales tax].
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Post by San Francisco »

polianarchy wrote:When was the last time you brought your scooter mechanic cookies?

:roll:

And PS to Phila scooters: make that black seat happen before Charm City rally, and the pizza's on me!
When I was a kid I remember whenever my dad bought a new Lincoln
Continental each year, the dealer always delivered a HUGE bouquet of roses for my mom.

My mom was impressed and so was I, but my dad would always grumble
about how much he paid in order to get the flowers. :P

I don't ever recall my dad sending cookies to the salesman or service guys.
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Post by vitaminC »

Congrats on the purchase! 8)

I got a tin of some delightful cookies when I bought my first MINI. The car and cookies are gone, but the tin lives on! :wink:
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Post by Elm Creek Smith »

Keys wrote:I was supposed to PAY for it???

--Keys 8)
No wonder you painted it.

ECS
Yes, that is my scooter.
Yes, I wear a helmet and a FIRSTGEAR armored jacket.
No, I'm not embarrassed to be seen riding it.
Yes, that is an NRA sticker on the fender.

"I aim to misbehave."
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Post by Keys »

Shhhhh!!

--Keys 8)
"Life without music would Bb"
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pocphil
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Cookies...

Post by pocphil »

I actually have 3 or 4 customers who routinely bring me treats. We have a pair of ladies who bought a set of Buddies last fall and they have left cookies on the seat of their scooters when I went to their home to pick them up for service. Nice touch, you know damn well I waived the pick up fee that day.

Another customer of mine will bring me bumperstickers that he makes on his computer...they say I'd rather be riding my scooter and have my shop logo on them etc...he's also probably sent me 4 new customers he met while riding his bike. He gets the club discount on everything he buys and is welcome to hang out and chat on Saturdays even though we're usually so slammed I don't get a break to eat. I've even let him look over my shoulder when I do his service...not even my wife is allowed to "vulture" my work.

There are 5 scooter shops within 20 miles of our store, 3 of them have opened within the last year, most won't survive. My customers know that I do genuinely care for them and we appreciate that they've chosen to do business with us. We repay that by giving them the fastest service we can and any courtesy we can apply to the situation.

The dealer / client relationship is one that is so frequently adversarial we understand when people come into our store with their shields up. A good portion of our day is undoing damages caused by other dealers. We spent an hour today with a woman who's current Vespa dealer had kept her bike for the last 3 weeks, having never even attempted to diagnose the problem or give her a call. The bike has been back to the shop 3 times for the same problem. She really just needed to vent, but we will go pick the bike up from the dealer, because now she's too uncomfortable to even talk to them, and we will do the work as fast as possible and cover it under their warranty. Folks shouldn't tolerate when they receive poor service from their dealer, it only takes a phone call to the manufacturer to make sure companies know what is being done in the shadow of their corporate logo.

Phil Waters
Chocolate Chip or Oatmeal Raisin
Pride Of Cleveland Scooters
Vespa Downtown Cleveland
www.clevelandscooters.com
216-737-0700
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Keys
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Post by Keys »

Ooooo...oatmeal/raisin!! Those customers aren't the only ones who appreciate what you bring to the scooter world, Phil. I came to know you on the Bajaj Yahoo group years ago and you have never failed to be a stand-up guy and provide a positive image of scootering.

Whatever,
--Keys
"Life without music would Bb"
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mrsding
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$2900 OTD Each

Post by mrsding »

with 2 half helmets thrown in on each.

We did our homework before we went, and were grateful for the deal.

Suan
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