Scooters now need to be registered in Boston

Penguinboy · Post by **Penguinboy** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:09 pm

From today's Boston Globe- looks they're going after anything that goes over 30 MPH and putting a new layer of registration in between moped and motorcycle. They say it's for public safety but most feel it's just a new source of revenue. I ride a 150 so I'm not effected, but I'm sure many will be. Looks like another parking boondogle on tap for Boston!

Here's the link to the article. The comments are interesting as well.....

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massac ... _up_worry/

robby · Post by **robby** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:16 pm

Saw that this morning.

If they can show any evidence that there have been problems with scooters violating traffic laws and exceeding the speed limits, I have no problem with it. I understand that there can be safety concerns that are particularly frustrating when you can't identify a vehicle.

But if this is about increasing revenues, well, there are no words to express how disappointed I am in that decision. It would be a short-sighted policy that diminishes interest in a fuel-efficient method of transport.

Also -- not to nitpick but to clarify -- it's not just for Boston. It's a state law so it would be all of Massachusetts.

All that said, it's a very sloppily-put-together article that doesn't cite a single quote from the new law, so I'm still not sure exactly what will be enforced.

pdxbuddy · Post by **pdxbuddy** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:06 pm

not sure how this fits, but when i was in Boston I specifically remember seeing a scooterist park on the sidewalk and remove their velco license plate. I wonder if it was a larger CC scooter that was taking advantage of the moped parking.

IMO vehicles should park where they can do so safely. I park in the triangle shaped spot at my office bldg. where only a scooter (actually 3) can fit.

corey · Post by **corey** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:38 pm

i posted this comment to the article... anyone up for a protest? dunno how we'd get it all together to maximize impact but if we could do it, i'm totally game...

"there are obviously two issues here. the first is the requirement to have insurance, plates, license, etc. that's not a big deal in my opinion. yes it will cost some extra money but it seems right. the second issue is not being allowed to park on the sidewalk - this is not ok. there is nowhere else to safely park because we can't lock our scooters to anything if we're in a spot. that leaves the scooter in a very vulnerable position. i chose to buy a scooter because it saves the environment, can be parked anywhere, and is cheap and fun to operate. without being able to park it on the sidewalk, all those benefits other benefits are lost. i will probably now drive to work because it's cheaper and easier than the T and i don't have to worry about someone knocking my car over or picking it up and walking away with it. this has me fuming... when are staging a pr otestand occupying every parking space on newbury, comm, or some other street that will make a statement to the people who made this absurd decision?"

robby · Post by **robby** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:07 pm

I agree with all of your points but I worry that that sort of protest will piss off drivers and give us a bad name rather than get the city to do anything about it.

narcoleptic · Post by **narcoleptic** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:36 pm

I can see a benefit to having 50cc registered with plates, and that is dealing with thefts. If there is no plate required then anyone riding without a plate doesn't seem suspicious, also you have no plate # to report as stolen. In PA, I have to register my 50cc and get motorcycle tags, but not a motorcycle license. I think it's a good idea that anyone riding one without a plate could be pulled over for that fact alone. I feel like the scooter thefts we have been hearing about in RVA would be a lot less if these scoots were registered and had plates and insurance.

Portland Rider · Post by **Portland Rider** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:11 am

It is probably about both increasing revenues and the trend in America towards ever increased government monitoring the behavior of private citizens.

Someday they'll try to outlaw bb guns and air rifles.

digital-entropy · Post by **digital-entropy** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:26 am

Sorry but I don't see a huge issue with this. Obviously I don't live in Boston so the lifestyle change isn't affecting me, but here's why I don't think it's that big of a deal.

Firstly, I think we should license & plate any vehicle that is on the road, motorize or non-motorized. Why? As the article says, "because without license plates, it’s extremely difficult for police to issue parking tickets or to cite drivers for running red lights, splitting lanes, or committing other moving violations." In San Francisco, cycling is huge. But there's a huge component of that community which feels that the laws don't apply to them and that they should be able to run red lights, ignore pedestrian crosswalks, etc.. I can only imagine how much worse it might be if they were motorized vehicles.

Secondly, these are vehicles, they are using the road and I think that anyone using the road needs to contribute back to the transportation budget. Obviously this is done through gas taxes, but also via registration. I assume the scooter registration fee will be less than the car fee.

If you think this is about the government intruding into your life then you're free to stop using public roads. And so what if it is a new source of revenue? Fees should be less because we consume less in terms of resources but I don't know why we should get a free pass.

Regarding sidewalk parking -- I have no comment but here in SF they convert some car spots to motorcycle spots. There is nothing to lock your scooter to. But since ours are registered they're easier to track if someone does.

Cheshire · Post by **Cheshire** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:05 am

Sounds like the big issue is parking.

Instead of a block-the-spaces protest/boycott, instead maybe a petition along with frequent (weekly, every other week) group rides that pass the areas that are in dire need of scooter/motorcycle parking? If you do group rides, break up the group into bunches of 6 or less: learn from the fiasco of Critical Mass. You don't want to be causing traffic to hate you, you want people to see you...a LOT.

Have you talked to your local CBA/ABATE group about trying to get scooter/motorcycle parking? I'd bet they'd be willing to help out.

Brains over brawn.

robby · Post by **robby** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:54 pm

digital-entropy wrote:Sorry but I don't see a huge issue with this. Obviously I don't live in Boston so the lifestyle change isn't affecting me, but here's why I don't think it's that big of a deal.

Firstly, I think we should license & plate any vehicle that is on the road, motorize or non-motorized. Why? As the article says, "because without license plates, it’s extremely difficult for police to issue parking tickets or to cite drivers for running red lights, splitting lanes, or committing other moving violations." In San Francisco, cycling is huge. But there's a huge component of that community which feels that the laws don't apply to them and that they should be able to run red lights, ignore pedestrian crosswalks, etc.. I can only imagine how much worse it might be if they were motorized vehicles.

Secondly, these are vehicles, they are using the road and I think that anyone using the road needs to contribute back to the transportation budget. Obviously this is done through gas taxes, but also via registration. I assume the scooter registration fee will be less than the car fee.

If you think this is about the government intruding into your life then you're free to stop using public roads. And so what if it is a new source of revenue? Fees should be less because we consume less in terms of resources but I don't know why we should get a free pass.

Regarding sidewalk parking -- I have no comment but here in SF they convert some car spots to motorcycle spots. There is nothing to lock your scooter to. But since ours are registered they're easier to track if someone does.

I'm not sure why you're giving so many paragraphs to plates & registration when the big complaint here is the parking. We already have to register every two years; I don't care about having to put plates on or get a yearly sticker. The issue is that Boston is an absolute parking nightmare and the city is making it worse instead of better.

Also, my understanding is that scooters can be parked on sidewalks in CA so long as they don't block pedestrian traffic (correct me if I'm wrong). But even if that's not the case, the fact that CA hasn't figured out this problem either doesn't provide any justification for the problems now being caused in Boston. And Boston is a much bigger clusterfuck as far as parking is concerned than California is.

robby · Post by **robby** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:05 pm

Cheshire wrote:Have you talked to your local CBA/ABATE group about trying to get scooter/motorcycle parking? I'd bet they'd be willing to help out.

Brains over brawn.

It's tough. I just don't see how they could do this. It's not a problem in Western Mass but in Boston/Cambridge/Somerville there just isn't any space to spare. Street parking is already at a huge shortage for residents, and people are ticketed constantly because they have no options but to park illegally. I don't blame the city entirely -- they're forced to make do with roads that were literally laid by cattle -- but policies like this leave me red-faced because they're not capitalizing on the few things that they can do well.

Cheshire · Post by **Cheshire** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:43 pm

I mentioned CBA/ABATE because they tend to be politically-oriented, and it can carry more weight to have a known organization supporting something than just a bunch of people who signed a petition.
Just brainstorming.

siobhan · Post by **siobhan** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:29 pm

Here's one petition going:
http://www.letusparkonthesidewalk.com/
It's a freakin' nightmare trying to find any kind of parking in Boston or Cambridge, and now they're going to add more vehicles to the mix?!

Everyone, both those who ride and those who don't, needs to call their councilmember, the Mayor's office, the office of Neighborhood Services, and their local precinct to ask for an extension until the parking issues can be resolved.

I'm so curious how this got passed without people knowing about it.

robby · Post by **robby** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:29 pm

Excellent. Signed.

Post by **ericalm** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:03 pm

Portland Rider wrote:It is probably about both increasing revenues and the trend in America towards ever increased government monitoring the behavior of private citizens.

Someday they'll try to outlaw bb guns and air rifles.

Or someday, some authoritarian forum admin will take away your right to free speech. Please read the Posting Guidelines:

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corey · Post by **corey** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:36 pm

loving that website about the parking... obviously signed it right away

questions:
1. do you think we can get away with simply removing a license from our scooter that's affixed with velcro once we need to park it on the sidewalk?
2. if the rmv doesn't know anything about these law modification when exactly are we suppose to get these license plates, insurance, etc? as of august 1st are we driving completely illegally?
3. why don't we simply weld on some pedals to our scooters and call them mopeds?

oh and i just got a text from the letuspark folks and news channel 5 is gonna do a piece on this... all interested scooterists are meeting at 520-530 at 207 south street by south station... i'm gonna try to make it

kooky scientist · Post by **kooky scientist** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:04 am

I still can't make heads or tails out of this law because the article was so poorly written and the RMV hasn't even posted the new law anywhere.

I guess I'll just go buy a gunrack for my Buddy 50 and move to New Hampshire. At least I know how it has to be registered up there.

LIVE FREE OR DIE !!!

sotied · Post by **sotied** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:15 am

Called my senator yesterday and wrote a blog post on this today...

http://bowlofcheese.com/?p=1614

SOOOOO ANNOYED.

Feel like camping out in spots all day long to make a point.

It's idiocy!

Please share the post. The link to the petition is in it.

Best,

robby · Post by **robby** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:11 pm

Nice. Yeah, I wrote a blog post, too.

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:05 pm

robby wrote:Also, my understanding is that scooters can be parked on sidewalks in CA so long as they don't block pedestrian traffic (correct me if I'm wrong). But even if that's not the case, the fact that CA hasn't figured out this problem either doesn't provide any justification for the problems now being caused in Boston. And Boston is a much bigger clusterfuck as far as parking is concerned than California is.

Not legally, no. Scooters cannot be parked on sidewalks in CA. In some places you can get away with it if you don't obstruct. But I'm sure that may be true in other parts of MA.

Boston is a parking nightmare, but so is San Francisco. You can't really compare a city to the 2nd largest and most populous state. Many cities are facing parking problems. Some are encouraging 2-wheelers as a way of relieving congestion by making it easier to park. Others are seeing a potential source of revenue which, at this time, trumps all other concerns.

digital-entropy · Post by **digital-entropy** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 3:44 pm

ericalm wrote:Boston is a parking nightmare, but so is San Francisco. You can't really compare a city to the 2nd largest and most populous state. Many cities are facing parking problems. Some are encouraging 2-wheelers as a way of relieving congestion by making it easier to park. Others are seeing a potential source of revenue which, at this time, trumps all other concerns.

Fortunately SF seems to be adding more cycle parking, and there's a traffic engineer you can write to request more. I wrote, but it has been a few months and I've heard nothing. Probably time to write again. there is a map of all the motorcycle parking in the city, but it is terribly out of date and some spots have been removed and others added, so it isn't of much use.

But really the only guaranteed way to get a spot near work is to get here between 7:30 and 8:00 AM. After that I have to go farther and farther away which sort of defeats the point.

Apologies if I focused too much on the registration aspect -- I got the impression from the article that you don't already have to do that.

corey · Post by **corey** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:20 pm

UPDATE: http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaki ... -open-text

since our scooters are listed on the website as having a top speed of 30mph does that mean we are still not required to have a plate and insurance?

Penguinboy · Post by **Penguinboy** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:03 pm

Despite the new law, the city Trans chief says they will not ticket scooters under the new law....

http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaki ... iders.html

robby · Post by **robby** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 12:34 pm

Another story this morning: http://www.boston.com/news/local/massac ... from_city/

Sounds like law enforcement is a bit more understanding than the legislature.

corey · Post by **corey** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 2:22 pm

for what it's worth, i just (like 30mins ago) re-registered my genuine buddy 50cc at the watertown rmv for the normal $40 and a smile... she asked me if it went over 30mph and according to the specs on my scooter it doesn't so i'm in the clear... for now...

Alex P · Post by **Alex P** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:13 pm

In Richmond, we're experiencing a tidal wave of theft. One of the most successful ways to combat scooter theft would be to require registration of 50cc scoots. Someone brought it up earlier in the thread, but it could help prevent theft to a great degree if there weren't hundreds of scoots on the roads which weren't tagged. I'm a 50cc rider, and I'd rather not go through the trouble of having to register and all that, but if it's going to help cut theft, and make it easier to locate stolen scoots, I'm for it.

Also, if you're upset about parking conditions for your scoot, the fact that your registration fees are contributing to the income flow helps to give you a little more leverage. Specifically because your contributing fully, like any other vehicle, it means you deserve the same level of consideration. But, that also means Boston scooterists are going to have stick together.

bulldog1967 · Post by **bulldog1967** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 3:09 am

What do you expect from TAXachussetts?

Poursuivant · Post by **Poursuivant** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:20 am

I thought Baltimore was bad...at least we can park on the sidewalk and we don't have to bother with tags or insurance for 50ccs.
I have to take exception to the notion that every vehicle on the road(motorized or not) must be registered and tagged. Not only do I bicycle, but I recently got a Buddy 50 for those occasions when using a car doesn't make any sense.
Basically what you're saying is that we need permission from the government to set foot outside our door in any way, aside from walking. That's too much government oversight into an aspect of my life that comes nowhere near automobiles in terms of its impact on the environment and the public infrastructure. I don't think its appropriate for 50ccs and I certainly don't think its appropriate for bicycles.

Post by **ericalm** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:24 am

Poursuivant wrote:I thought Baltimore was bad...at least we can park on the sidewalk and we don't have to bother with tags or insurance for 50ccs.
I have to take exception to the notion that every vehicle on the road(motorized or not) must be registered and tagged. Not only do I bicycle, but I recently got a Buddy 50 for those occasions when using a car doesn't make any sense.
Basically what you're saying is that we need permission from the government to set foot outside our door in any way, aside from walking. That's too much government oversight into an aspect of my life that comes nowhere near automobiles in terms of its impact on the environment and the public infrastructure. I don't think its appropriate for 50ccs and I certainly don't think its appropriate for bicycles.

You may want to chime in here:
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/op ... o_tak.html

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:26 am

I had a green burro, enchilada style, with a Negra Modelo tonight. Yummy.

Poursuivant · Post by **Poursuivant** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:20 am

Wow! Good spotting.
I don't read the Sun regularly so I totally missed that one.
I find it interesting, as a scooter newbie, that some people are so insistent on 50 ccs being tagged and insured. As a bicyclist, I regularly top 30 mph on the flats and 50 mph on the downhills. I am actually more at risk of hurting myself and injuring others on my bicycle, with a road contact surface that's barely more than an inch (and no suspension), than on the scooter.

Post by **ericalm** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:03 am

Poursuivant wrote:Wow! Good spotting.
I don't read the Sun regularly so I totally missed that one.
I find it interesting, as a scooter newbie, that some people are so insistent on 50 ccs being tagged and insured. As a bicyclist, I regularly top 30 mph on the flats and 50 mph on the downhills. I am actually more at risk of hurting myself and injuring others on my bicycle, with a road contact surface that's barely more than an inch (and no suspension), than on the scooter.

A lot of people point out the similarities between bicycling and scootering and there are many, but there are also a lot of differences. I've actually discussed the differences in crashing on each with physicists and engineers. It's totally separate form this discussion. I always meant to sum up the points because it was pretty interesting; I'll try to dig it up again and post it in a new thread.

Poursuivant · Post by **Poursuivant** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:24 am

I'd be very interested in reading it. Obviously, the added weight of the scooter has to be factored in but in terms of control/stability of the platforms, I had an interesting experience several days after I got the scooter. I got caught in a heavy downpour that really made me focus on the control/stability aspect of scooter riding as opposed to cycling. I found the scooter more stable than my road bike, especially in turns. I put in down to the increased rubber foot print of the scooter but I'd be curious to read what you came up with.

robby · Post by **robby** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 2:08 pm

ericalm wrote:
Poursuivant wrote:Wow! Good spotting.
I don't read the Sun regularly so I totally missed that one.
I find it interesting, as a scooter newbie, that some people are so insistent on 50 ccs being tagged and insured. As a bicyclist, I regularly top 30 mph on the flats and 50 mph on the downhills. I am actually more at risk of hurting myself and injuring others on my bicycle, with a road contact surface that's barely more than an inch (and no suspension), than on the scooter.
A lot of people point out the similarities between bicycling and scootering and there are many, but there are also a lot of differences. I've actually discussed the differences in crashing on each with physicists and engineers. It's totally separate form this discussion. I always meant to sum up the points because it was pretty interesting; I'll try to dig it up again and post it in a new thread.

I'd love to hear that if you have time to put it together.

kooky scientist · Post by **kooky scientist** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:57 pm

My insurance company still doesn't know how much it will cost to insure my Buddy 50 and I doubt if the registry knows how much the "LU" plates and registration will be.

Anyone hear anything about registering and insuring a Buddy 50 in Massachusetts ?

robby · Post by **robby** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 2:28 am

I would skip the LU plates unless you're caught going 30+. Why not just get a registration sticker and insure it as a scooter? Progressive and Liberty Mutual both gave me quotes.

siobhan · Post by **siobhan** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:29 pm

I was in Boston today (and again tomorrow) and I saw parked on the sidwalk:

* a Vino and some other 125/150 parked next to each other (locked up to bike circle thingey)
* a Chinascoot that was no 50cc (I was across a 4-lane street)
* a Yamaha Majesty
* three motorcycles (Honda Shadow and two other smaller-ish bikes...again, across a 4-lane street)

None were blocking pedestrians and none had tickets.

Meanwhile, back in scooter-hating Providence, I had to pony up 20 bucks to park in a garage near the train station. The MBTA/Amtrak parking garage would not allow me to park within as no bikes are allowed. Last time I parked on the sidewalk near the bike rack at the station in a respectful spot, I received a huge "Violation...your bike will be impounded if you park here again" from Amtrak, a federal agency. I'm very jealous of my Boston neighbors.

I'll try to remember a camera tomorrow.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:44 pm

There are 4-lane streets in Boston?

siobhan · Post by **siobhan** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:51 pm

Syd wrote:There are 4-lane streets in Boston?

Yeah. I don't know the name of the area...I was at the convention center and walked from South Station down Summer Street to the Center. It's two-lanes each way. At least I think it was...it's was hot and I was talking with a colleague. We had both gotten up at 4am to get up to Boston in time for a 3 1/2 hour talk. Maybe it isn't?

I'm still jealous of all the bikes on the sidewalks.

kneil67@yahoo.com · Post by **kneil67@yahoo.com** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:23 pm

my opinion is that boston ( opinion) id move anyway just because. live free or die New Hampshire .

Modern Buddy

Scooters now need to be registered in Boston

Scooters now need to be registered in Boston

it's about money and control

Re: it's about money and control

NEWS UPDATE!! Scooters will NOT be ticketed now...

Wow!

Re: Wow!

@ ericalm

Re: @ ericalm

@ ericalm

Re: @ ericalm