What happened to the Stebel horn post??

[MrNatural]

...and the pics that were on it? I bought the horn and would like the "tutorial" that was posted.
San Fran??

[rickyd410]

I guess the Moderators thought it was too controversial!

[Corsair]

Are you talking about this one: http://www.modernbuddy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=917

I know San Fran posted one too but I can't seem to find it either

[San Francisco]

...and the pics that were on it? I bought the horn and would like the "tutorial" that was posted.
San Fran??

A moderator posted that I was giving bad advice, and that my install
would eventually cause damage to the horn and possibly the entire
electrical system.

Although an electrical engineer , he did not
post any alternative tips on how to install the wiring.

He then tore down the thread.

So I guess you should disregard my thread even though it was up for
two weeks before being criticized and despite my asking in that thread if
I was missing something in terms of wiring.

If you want a pic of where I physically installed it, you can PM me. But
as to wiring, I am taking it into the dealer to ask about it since I did not
get any answers in here. My dealer will be able to tell me if that relay
is needed, and if so, how to install it [not a big deal since the hard part,
fitting in the horn, has been done].

If you want an update on what the dealer says about the wiring, PM me
and I will provide such to you. I am taking it in on Wed or Thurs.

[rickyd410]

A note to the moderators: Please inform us when you take something down because you think it might cause harm to the bike. Some of us might have already taken SanFrans advice because we don't know any better. The more information the better.

Thanks.

[San Francisco]

By the way, the "my install" I was referring to was simply connecting the
wires from the old horn on to the new horn, without installing the
relay.

I don't profess to be an electrical expert, nor even a novice for that matter,
that is why when I posted what I had done I asked if anyone could tell
me that the way I wired the horn was wrong or could harm the scooter.

I thought it odd that two weeks after posting the info that a mod would
simply censor the thread without posting some warnings so that we
all could benefit from his knowledge.

I dunno what is up, my suspicion is that some people don't like me and
they would prefer to see me fry my scoot. This is all curious,
censoring my posts [as has been done twice now]. Like I said in the other
thread that was torn down, at least I am trying to help and contribute.

Truth be told though, I am a little concerned that on MB that removing
threads is the preferred way to deal with what a mod thinks is an
offensive or inflammatory post. On other forums, where I am a mod, we
edit or remove the posts. We do not delete entire threads.

Oh well, such is the power of being a mod on MB.

[lobsterman]

Give yourself adequate time to get it done, including body part removal and replacement again when the wiring is done. Plan on a lots of extra time, because these things never happen as fast as you think they will.

Take a deep breath, and get started.

Install the Stebel as per the instructions that came with it, using the included fuse, relay, connectors, and wires.

It's really not complicated, I recommend you read through the instructions once or twice in their entirety, referring to the parts as they are mentioned in the instructions, and then install it as the instructions indicate. I wired into the battery as it says to.

Lay out the parts on the ground (or your work space whatever) as they are in the wiring diagram, it will help you to see how it all comes together.

The one thing I think you can safely disregard is the physical orientation of the horn - since it will be enclosed by that big plastic thing the Buddy docs call a "windshield" it will not be exposed to the elements like rain and such.

As for the moderators removing posts they are concerned about, that's their prerogative - it's what moderators do.

[MrNatural]

Thanks much everyone for all the inputs. I definitely will be setting aside a lot of time during a period of rainy days.

[San Francisco]

Excellent post Kevin. Since I will be at the dealer on other matters, I am
planning on having him do the horn rewire and to install the headlight and
brake light modulators.

You are right that the install is not all that hard, the most difficult part is
fitting the horn inside the compartment. .

My original post and thread on the wiring did ask for others to comment
on the correctness of hooking up the horn directly to the old horn
connectors.

Because I like to know how things work, it would sure be nice if some MB
expert on this electrical stuff would chime in about the wiring, relays, etc.
I love reading about "how things work" whether in a book, on TV or the
Net.

[krylonics]

As an electrical professional myself I'd have to say I agree that running a large horn with the stock wiring is not advised. The load of the new horn is to much for the small contacts on the horn button. If you replace the old horn with a relay and run a wire (I used 14 gauge MTW wire, its very flexible and resists chemical like oil and other things that might get on it) directly to your battery through the contacts on the relay and then to the new horn I can't see where there would be a problem. Thats how I did mine. Also be sure to put an inline fuse on between the battery and the relay. Size the fuse according to the instructions on the horn. Oh yeah, and ground the new horn to the chassis not to the battery.

[Tazio]

The purpose of a relay is to use a low current circuit to control a high current circuit. A good example is your automobile's starter motor. If you ran the starter current through the ignition/starter switch, things would get hot and possibly melt due to the small diameter wires and high current. Instead the starter switch energizes (closes) the relay that allows the high starter current to flow from the battery directly to the starter motor.

Relays are sometime also used for horns or lights if they draw a high current. In this case it would depend on how much current the horn requires. If it is high, larger diameter wiring might have to be added to supply the horn directly from the battery through a relay to use the existing horn button wiring.

Manufacturers don't always get it right either. Porsche, who should know better, ran the full headlight current through the very expensive dimmer switch on my 1989 911. After having to replace the dimmer switch at a cost of $300, I added a $25 relay to bypass the switch and prevent this damage from occuring in the future.

Hope this helps.

Sorry Krylonics, We both posted replys at the same time saying essentially the same thing.

[San Francisco]

Most excellent posts guys.

Now one of you want to come to my house and fix the problem I am having?

Some outlets just stopped working. Did the newbie thing and checked the
circuit breakers, no fix.

[krylonics]

No problem I can fix your outlets..... I'd have to charge you travel mileage on anything over 80 miles. If I take my buddy I'll reduce the charge by thirty percent. Thats fair right?

[jess]

He then tore down the thread.

The thread was taken down because it got argumentative.

For the record, jrsjr was right: you cannot (reliably) wire a Stebel Nautilus air horn directly to the existing horn wiring. I installed one of these in a Vespa GTS a week and a half ago and put a 5 amp fuse in the circuit to protect the wiring. The fuse popped on the very first honk, indicating that the Stebel drew more than 5 amps. That's a lot of current for a little scooter, and the factory wiring isn't up to the task. The chances of electrical fire are extremely high.

[AxeYrCat]

No problem I can fix your outlets..... I'd have to charge you travel mileage on anything over 80 miles. If I take my buddy I'll reduce the charge by thirty percent. Thats fair right?

Seems like MI to CA would be quite a trek on a Buddy.

[Bryce-O-Rama]

By the way, the "my install" I was referring to was simply connecting the
wires from the old horn on to the new horn, without installing the
relay.

I don't profess to be an electrical expert, nor even a novice for that matter,
that is why when I posted what I had done I asked if anyone could tell
me that the way I wired the horn was wrong or could harm the scooter.

From what I recall of that thread, it appeared that the use of the relay was recommended. That would be, to me, the alternative about which you inquired.

Personally, I avoid referring to anything as a tutorial when I am not expert enough to tutor others on the topic in question. I have not always done this in my life, and there have been times when it has cost me credibility and made me look like a know-it-all blowhard. I don't think there is anything wrong with doing something to your scooter and posting pictures to show off your work and ask questions about whether it's done the right way. That's entirely what this forum is about.

Posting something as a tutorial comes across as having a certain authority to it. This is really problematic when one is not an authority on the subject, and when one is offering advice to others on ways they can void part of their warranty. Part or all of your warranty can become void if modifications can be proven to have caused damage (as per the Magnusson-Moss Act). On an electrical system, it would not be tough at all for the manufacturer or dealer to deny your warranty claim for any electrical component on the basis of any electrical modification made.

I dunno what is up, my suspicion is that some people don't like me and
they would prefer to see me fry my scoot. This is all curious,
censoring my posts [as has been done twice now]. Like I said in the other
thread that was torn down, at least I am trying to help and contribute.

Truth be told though, I am a little concerned that on MB that removing
threads is the preferred way to deal with what a mod thinks is an
offensive or inflammatory post. On other forums, where I am a mod, we
edit or remove the posts. We do not delete entire threads.

Oh well, such is the power of being a mod on MB.

I doubt anyone wishes to see your scooter get fried. Jess has the right as the owner of MB to do as he wishes with Modern Buddy and Modern Vespa. It's his clubhouse, and he allows us to play in it at his discretion, or the discretion of those he has deputized to assist him in managing it. He also has the right to set protocol for how moderation is handled.

In this specific instance, I would likely also delete the thread. The content posted was offered up as a definitive source on how to install an aftermarket electrical device. It was a guide that showed an improper way to fit the device. People often do not bother to read far enough down threads to see the discussion and debate that takes place within them. So a person could follow the advice given and potentially damage his or her scooter without ever reading the warnings not to use said advice. Finally, hosting incorrect or bad advice is really just not a liability the owner of any website wishes to expose oneself.