Do you carry something for personal defense? (long)

[Syd]

I had scrambled eggs, bacon and toast for dinner, with a beer. Mmm, bacon.

[B02S4]

...Thinking works all of the time; think wait 'til they get out of the car and just like you do with a chasing dog, your ride away. Carrying a gun or other weapon is only going to end badly for one or both parties.

Of course thinking works. It even works when one is not on a scooter, which for me is most of the time. I have also yet to see a dog get behind the wheel of a vehicle & pursue a scooterist, & dogs were not the subject of the OP. If confronted by a violent criminal actor (VCA), this time lets say off the scooter, perhaps it should end badly for the VCA if by the VCA's actions it is reasonably clear to the person being threatened that the VCA intends to cause serious bodily injury (or worse), & the VCA has the means, opportunity, places the other person in jeapardy, & the other person is precluded from escape.

[Ray Knobs]

Carrying a gun or other weapon is only going to end badly for one or both parties.

I know a lot of people that carry every day that would completely disagree with this statement.

[TVB]

It just may be that some people have significantly more experience with violent criminal actors than you do.

That's certainly true. It just may be that I'm doing something right.

[Asburyjer]

I know a lot of people that carry every day that would completely disagree with this statement.

Talk to them after they use it, and then get back with me. There is a reason police officers have to go through counseling when they use lethal force on the job. My personal opinion is that a human life is extremely valuable even that includes everyone even those who wish me harm.

[Ray Knobs]

I'm sorry you feel that way, I value my life and my loved ones lives more than the person trying to take their lives.

[Asburyjer]

I'm sorry you feel that way, I value my life and my loved ones lives more than the person trying to take their lives.

I'm not sorry at all, there was a time when I did not value life very much at all and might have been all to willing to take a life, but then things changed in my life. If I talk more about this here I'm afraid that I'll take us off the subject of skootz and into the realm of the religious. So let me just say; May you know a safe ride all of your days and may you never find a time when you are forced to choose one life over another, may peace follow you all of your days.

[Ray Knobs]

may you never find a time when you are forced to choose one life over another

I agree with that, but should it happen I don't want to be the one at the disadvantage.

[Keys]

I just carry Scottish DNA...better than life insurance.

--Keys

P.S. You could NEVER get me to agree that my daughter, raped and traumatized for life is is the better moral choice than a rapist lying dead in an alley of lead poisoning.

[Asburyjer]

P.S. You could NEVER get me to agree that my daughter, raped and traumatized for life is is the better moral choice than a rapist lying dead in an alley of lead poisoning.

Fine, shoot the guy in that instance, but I just hope that you'll also agree that the likelihood of that happening at a time when you are actually able to do something about it is remote at best. When I worked in a prison, you wouldn't believe the number of stories I heard that began with, "I never should have brought the gun."

[Portland_Rider]

I'm just calming waiting for posts to begin discussing the pros and cons of whether to carry a Sig Sauer or Glock 9mm, .40, or .45 caliber.

Since my city of Portland is currently a low-crime city (relatively speaking), I'm going to for now carry nothing more potent than pepper-spray if I'm going into a night-time questionable neighborhood.

For those considering pepper-spray a few drawbacks are that if you crash it's possible for the can to be punctured and the contents go over you, a strong head-wind can blow-back some (probably a much lesser amount) onto you, and a heavy rain can limit its effectiveness.

Still, I will probably buy this model at the link below: OC10-4M along with the nylon holster H4 for some added safety. I spoke with perhaps the owner and he described the model as a "cone mist" which is a combination of the broad fogger and liquid stream.

In a high-stress confrontation scenario, I'm not going to rely upon my accuracy with a liquid stream pepper stream since missing the eyes by 4" is well a miss.

This model can also be used while wearing riding gloves provided that your hands are not too big and your gloves not too thick.

The man that I spoke with a the company (I spoke directly with the manufacturer that does sell direct too) informed me that the chemical they use to disperse the spray will kick out well even into some head-wind with the understading that a lower portion will or may come back your way. A full-face helmet might come in handy here too.

http://www.counterassault.com/html/lawenforcement.html

[adamshahan]

I've only ridden 100 miles on my Buddy and I've already had like 5 people blow their horns at me while riding down a one lane road (which scares the crap out of me), Ive had people pass me on a one lane road even though I'm doing 15 mph over the speed limit several times, and I've had 2 near accidents from people pulling out in front of me (I literally almost went over a Cavaliers hood today because this little girl was talking on her phone). I'm starting to rethink this scooter thing. It doesn't seem safe. It's only a matter of time before people at stop lights call me a fag or something, I don't think I could just let that go.

[Ray Knobs]

When I worked in a prison, you wouldn't believe the number of stories I heard that began with, "I never should have brought the gun."

I would believe it, it's prison.


That's like going to a weight watchers meeting and hearing "i never should have ate that donut".


Now how many of those guns were legally purchased by a person licensed to carry a firearm and used as personal defense?

[illnoise]

Yeah, let's tread REALLY carefully here, this topic was doomed to political/personal freedom arguments from the beginning. If it continues in this direction, it will be locked and/or removed.

Scooter theft is traumatizing, I've had a scooter stolen so I know. Scooterjacking is clearly a more frightening prospect but thankfully incredibly rare, in the years I've been watching scooter reports on Google for 2strokebuzz, I can only remember a handful, and the vast majority were in Europe, and in almost 15 years of scootering, while I've had some confrontations, they were rare and escapable. I have one friend who was nearly scooterjacked BECAUSE he chased some aggressors into an alley and was trapped by more agressors, had he ridden away quickly, he would have been much better off.

As far as personal assault (rape, mugging, skinhead fights, etc), while a scooter may increase your odds of becoming a target, the confrontation itself isn't particularly related to scooters and is a touchy topic that doesn't need to be discussed here. If anyone has any nonviolent scooter-related preventative or evasive ideas to share, please do, but as I said, tread lightly.

Bb.

[Ray Knobs]

It's only a matter of time before people at stop lights call me a fag or something, I don't think I could just let that go.

What if you got called a derogatory name for a homosexual online, would you sell your computer?

[adamshahan]

Probably

[DennisD]

I prefer the local bakery jelly donuts over Krispy Kreme. I fully expect someone to taunt me and say that I am a cheap squishy donut heathen.



And I don't care.

[Asburyjer]

Probably

Well then if you can't handle someone calling you a derogatory name then you most definitely should not carry a weapon. For that matter, leaving the house might need to be seriously considered, oh and don't even think about attending High School.

[DennisD]

Think it'll rain today?

[digital-entropy]

I prefer the local bakery jelly donuts over Krispy Kreme. I fully expect someone to taunt me and say that I am a cheap squishy donut heathen.



And I don't care.

meh, I'll take a nice fresh almond croissant over a donut any day.

[Syd]

Think it'll rain today?

In Phoenix? Not likely.

And make mine maple bars, please. Krispy Kremes are, eh, ok.

[Asburyjer]

Dunkin Donuts rules!! Boston Cream Pies are the best!! To bad the closest Dunkin' to me is an hour away!

[KABarash]

Dunkin Donuts rules!! Boston Cream Pies are the best!! To bad the closest Dunkin' to me is an hour away!

A worth while ride in my mind!

[Portland_Rider]

We have a popular donut shop out here in Portland called Voodo Donuts. Whatever unusual and weird concoctions that you can dream-up are probably on their donuts. BTW, Voodoos donuts are very good.

http://voodoodoughnut.com/menu.php

Separately, there is also small food cart in Portland that actually cooks their small selection of donuts for you after you place your order. Talk about fresh!

[charlie55]

Hey, I think that last few posts have provided an alternative solution to the OP's question. Just make sure to have some baked goods on hand next time you ride. Get into an altercation? Just offer the other guy/gal a pastry. Don't know about you folks, but I find it impossible to stay angry while eating cannoli.

[Cheshire]

Dunkin Donuts rules!! Boston Cream Pies are the best!! To bad the closest Dunkin' to me is an hour away!

A worth while ride in my mind!

Seriously. C'mon, Asburyjer...what's your point? Saddle up! It's amazing how fast that hour flies by when you're scooting.

[DennisD]

We've had several Dunkin Donuts down here and all closed. I tried them quite a few times and am amazed that this chain has discovered the secret to making stale day old donuts immediately. ??????????????? Amazing.

And make mine maple bars, please. Krispy Kremes are, eh, ok.

ohhhh, maple bars!! YUM!

We have a popular donut shop out here in Portland called Voodo Donuts. Whatever unusual and weird concoctions that you can dream-up are probably on their donuts. BTW, Voodoos donuts are very good.

There was a Food Channel show that featured Voodoo Donuts. Interesting and unusual to say the least.

[Asburyjer]

Seriously. C'mon, Asburyjer...what's your point? Saddle up! It's amazing how fast that hour flies by when you're scooting.

I totally would, but that means having to run the gauntlet that is "Fender-bender alley".

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I just did a map search and I found a route that I can ride that doesn't take me through "Fender-Bender alley" nor does it run me on a 4 lane divided (where the average speed is 60+).

*edit...I did something wrong with the url.

here it is

seriously, I don't know what I did to make it work, but I'll take it!
Oh and nevermind the loop-back that was a misplaced marker.

[Cheshire]

See? problem solved. Now go forth and get thee DONUTS!!!

[Ray Knobs]

there is a good chance there will be people with firearms in duncan donuts

[digital-entropy]

there is a good chance there will be people with firearms in duncan donuts

Yeah, but he'll have at least a dozen to offer to any would-be assailants.

[Keys]

When I worked in a prison, you wouldn't believe the number of stories I heard that began with, "I never should have brought the gun."

...um...I'm not the one who said "When I worked in a prison...". However, I DO currently work as a detention officer in a county jail and sadly, I AM aware of the great number of predators out there on our streets. And since popular culture glamorizes that lifestyle, their numbers are not getting smaller.

--Keys

[Rob]

We've had several Dunkin Donuts down here and all closed. I tried them quite a few times and am amazed that this chain has discovered the secret to making stale day old donuts immediately. ??????????????? Amazing.

Forget the donuts ... I go for the coffee. I start almost every day with an XL Dunkin Donuts coffee, which also comes with a free donut. I turn down the donut ... the poor family that owns and operates this store just can't understand why I won't take the donut.

Rob

[JNV]

Apart from my full coverage insurance; I carry a 4"inch folding blade and a 4.5" fixed blade. Both from Cold Steel. But I own meat market and this is the only job I have had since I was 12 years old so I am sort of a knife fanatic.

[coastie]

Self Defense is a topic near and dear to me. I would prefer to avoid the political/moral question of whether a firearm is advisable. Suffice to say that I have a carry permit and a glock .40. I think my opinion is evident, though I won't presume to challenge anyone who has made a different choice.

I am not a lawyer, but I know a bit about the law and defense tactics. In general, most states require you to retreat from an attack before you can use defensive force. You do not usually have to retreat if it will put you in danger. Generally, you have to be able to reasonably say you feared severe injury or worse to justify deadly force. As many have said, getting away if possible is probably the best bet, along with dialing 911 at the earliest opportunity.

As for OC Pepper spray:
It can be effective, though as some have said, it can be ineffective against some and spraying yourself in the wind is a likely event, even if you have used it before. I've been sprayed at work in a controlled setting and it sucks. If you want to use it you might want to think about what would happen if you were exposed. The spray that marks people seems pretty cool, but I don't know it. Check your local laws

As for a gun:
There are alot of legal ramifications to shooting someone, even in self defense. You will likely be prosecuted and have to explain yourself. Also, if you draw, you better be able to fire if it comes to it or you will be killed. Make sure you have purchased a reliable gun and practice with it. Check your local laws about licensing.

As for a baton:
Illegal in many states, especially if concealed. Check local laws. Practically, do you really want to get so close?? Same might be said of a knife.

Assorted other blunt objects are deadly weapons and you should ask yourself if you would be justified shooting someone in the situation you are in

Not to sound hypocritical after saying all this, but obviously don't rely on someone on the internet about what the law is in your area, these are generalizations.

[Asburyjer]

Forget the donuts ... I go for the coffee. I start almost every day with an XL Dunkin Donuts coffee, which also comes with a free donut. I turn down the donut ... the poor family that owns and operates this store just can't understand why I won't take the donut.

Rob

You turn down a FREE Dunkin Donuts doughnut? Why on earth would you do such a thing?! I mean seriously what are you supposed to throw at your daily assailant when he tries to steal your skoot?

[digital-entropy]

Forget the donuts ... I go for the coffee. I start almost every day with an XL Dunkin Donuts coffee, which also comes with a free donut. I turn down the donut ... the poor family that owns and operates this store just can't understand why I won't take the donut.

Rob

You turn down a FREE Dunkin Donuts doughnut? Why on earth would you do such a thing?! I mean seriously what are you supposed to throw at your daily assailant when he tries to steal your skoot?

Um, throw? Guy tries to steal my scoot I'm gonna pull out my glock and cap him!

[pugbuddy]

I've only ridden 100 miles on my Buddy and I've already had like 5 people blow their horns at me while riding down a one lane road (which scares the crap out of me), Ive had people pass me on a one lane road even though I'm doing 15 mph over the speed limit several times, and I've had 2 near accidents from people pulling out in front of me (I literally almost went over a Cavaliers hood today because this little girl was talking on her phone). I'm starting to rethink this scooter thing. It doesn't seem safe. It's only a matter of time before people at stop lights call me a fag or something, I don't think I could just let that go.

It's not the scoot. It's the eastern states! They're full of loonies!

[Lostmycage]

This thread has gone all over the place. As for Doughnuts, I've got to side with Krispy Kreme. I was born in the same town they were, so it's a no-brainer. Of course I pretty much never indulge (trying to drop a few more pounds... 20 in the last 2 months ).

As for the original thread content...

As for a gun:
There are alot of legal ramifications to shooting someone, even in self defense. You will likely be prosecuted and have to explain yourself. Also, if you draw, you better be able to fire if it comes to it or you will be killed. Make sure you have purchased a reliable gun and practice with it. Check your local laws about licensing.

I couldn't agree with this more. I look at a gun as a tool. It's end result is morbid, but it's designed for one thing. If one were to use a gun, I'd hope to hell that they know how to use it. Personally, I don't carry... yet. Times change as well as situations. I could very easily see the time come where I judge it necessary to carry. If I do, I'll know how to use it to it's full extent.

I think that's the point I might have neglected to make in my previous post on this topic. As long as you're doing what's within your personal rights, Cool. Do it. But what I was trying to emphasize was that the consequences must be weighed. In addition to that, and -frankly- more importantly, the user needs to fully understand all aspects (use, ramifications, repercussions, etc) of taking a confrontation to that level.

I'll reiterate. If there's an escape route that you can take on two-wheels, that a potential assailant can't... take it. Lane split outside of California, hop on the curb, run through a walk-way only. Any police officer that's reasonable will understand your slight travel offenses a lot less severely than if they get called to the scene where lethal force was used.

So again, use your brain, use your throttle. You can find much more creative solutions than confrontation. Think of the stories you can relay to your friends about how you escaped some nutter by skirting through some alleys and up a one way road (again, not legal, but better than lethal force). They will totally buy your drinks that night! Or Doughnuts...

[Portland_Rider]

Um, throw? Guy tries to steal my scoot I'm gonna pull out my glock and cap him!

Which caliber and size Glock do you have? Do you like your Glock?

[digital-entropy]

Um, throw? Guy tries to steal my scoot I'm gonna pull out my glock and cap him!

Which caliber and size Glock do you have? Do you like your Glock?

sarcasm |ˈsärˌkazəm|
noun
the use of irony to mock or convey contempt : his voice, hardened by sarcasm, could not hide his resentment. See note at wit .

[Portland_Rider]

Um, throw? Guy tries to steal my scoot I'm gonna pull out my glock and cap him!

Which caliber and size Glock do you have? Do you like your Glock?

sarcasm |ˈsärˌkazəm|
noun
the use of irony to mock or convey contempt : his voice, hardened by sarcasm, could not hide his resentment. See note at wit .

Emails and posts can often be mis-interrpreted in a vastly different way than an author or sender intended. I've sent a few light-hearted emails to people who somehow got really ticked-off at me for nothing that I ever intended. I would have thought that anyone who knows me well is aware that I can have an off-beat sense of black humor at times. You never know fully with people.

So do you mean that you don't own a Glock and were joking about capping a thief?

[digital-entropy]

So do you mean that you don't own a Glock and were joking about capping a thief?

I mean only that I think there has been a willingness to resort to violence demonstrated in this thread that makes me uncomfortable and it was only meant as a remark on that. We have a legal system for a reason and it really shouldn't come to a use of force. Hypothetical diversions about what one would do if their daughter were a victim don't really aid the discussion because they are purely hypothetical and prone to emotion-tainted irrationality.

[gearhead]

i bought my gf some pepper spray to carry on her key chain but she refuses (she says its tooo bulky) i tell her, just wait for that day when you really need it

[Keys]

Hypothetical diversions about what one would do if their daughter were a victim don't really aid the discussion because they are purely hypothetical and prone to emotion-tainted irrationality.

Spend a week working alongside me in the jail and discover just how hypothetical it ISN'T.

--Keys

[Ray Knobs]

We have a legal system for a reason and it really shouldn't come to a use of force.

I don't think the person trying to do you harm cares about that legal system, it's not there to help you when it counts.

[Asburyjer]

Spend a week working alongside me in the jail and discover just how hypothetical it ISN'T.

--Keys

They let you ride your skoot in the jail? Awesome. When I was contracted at Wabash Valley Correctional Facility in Indiana (SuperMax prison) they wouldn't let us bring in anything more than our driver's license, that and I never felt more safe training a convicted murderer. Personally, outside the fences I choose to not think that every other person wants to leave me lying in the ditch.

So, looks like I'm off to get some donuts, do murderers like glazed or jelly-filled, I forgot to ask?

[Asburyjer]

I mean only that I think there has been a willingness to resort to violence demonstrated in this thread that makes me uncomfortable and it was only meant as a remark on that. We have a legal system for a reason and it really shouldn't come to a use of force. Hypothetical diversions about what one would do if their daughter were a victim don't really aid the discussion because they are purely hypothetical and prone to emotion-tainted irrationality.

I agree entirely. If I ran with all of my hypothetical scenarios I'd live in a bunker, drive an armored car and never let my kids out of the house..err bunker. But, I choose to live a life of openness and freedom without living in fear for my life every time I go out. If someone makes me pay the ultimate price for that openness then I'm ok with that, I have my eternal assurances, and I've prepared so my family will be taken care of in that event. Do, I think that's going to happen? No, and by a simple law of averages I'm satisfied with that.

[KABarash]

My Protector.......
Toughest, meanist, nastiest stuffed Raccoon in town!!!

[Asburyjer]

My Protector.......
Toughest, meanist, nastiest stuffed Raccoon in town!!!

LoL! That reminds me, I've got an attack bunny that I use for my magic routine. (Think Monty Python)