How much are you really saving?

rajron · Post by **rajron** » Mon May 21, 2007 9:35 pm

How much are you really saving?
It”s not that much but it helps – of course it all depends on the car or truck you have. For me its OK @ about 3:1, I drive a relatively economical car that gets an all around gas mileage of about 30 mpg, better on the Hwy Way, less on the city streets, kicker is I need to run the higher octane gas. For those that use a scoot exclusively it can be a giant savings but for me I need an alternate in transportation.
Some quick calculations @ 10,000 miles driving - Biggest savings is with gas so the more you drive the better off you are, and if your car or truck gets lousy gas mileage the savings are even greater.

Corsair · Post by **Corsair** » Mon May 21, 2007 9:37 pm

You forgot about insurance savings (for me a years full coverage for the scooter is less then 2 months of insurance for the car)

rajron · Post by **rajron** » Mon May 21, 2007 9:55 pm

Oh, yea good point I forgot the insurance, for me the scooter insurance is about 1/10 the cost of my car/s insurance!

sunshinen · Post by **sunshinen** » Mon May 21, 2007 11:10 pm

My estimated savings based on 9 months of ownership (while keeping my car) by putting miles my on my scooter rather than on my car. (My math is terrible, so this could be riddled with errors in math logic.)

Annual Ownership Savings
Depreciation of vehicles – $150
Maintenance of vehicles – $894.64
Gas – $255.36
Parking – $130.00
Insurance – $12.00
Scooter Tax/registration – ($122)
Total: $1,320.00
Monthly: $110

Notes:

Estimating 5000 miles for the year at an average gas price of $2.75.
Savings includes costs of scooter ownership/year
Depreciation includes depreciation of car value per mile minus depreciation of scooter value per mile
Maintenance includes estimated per mile maintenance of my car (found on some car-shopping site) minus cost of maintaining scooter per mile (estimating 2 services conducted by dealership, rest done DIY, unexpected costs incurred per mile ridden (retapping the drain plug), and expected not yet incurred costs such as tires, etc.)
Insurance includes reduction in car insurance for designating it an occasional- rather than daily-use vehicle plus cost of adding insurance on scooter

Getting Started Costs
Scooter – $2,495.00
Jackets (summer and winter) – $358.00
Helmet – $250.00
Winter gear – $250
Gloves (summer and winter) – $128
Accessories (windshield, rear rack, basket) – $200.00
Reflective stuff – $20
Motorcycle License – $10.00
MSF course – $100.00
Chain and lock – $100

Total "Invested": $3,911.00
If sold after two years, savings/profit would be: $1,224.00
If sold after three years, savings/profit would be: $2,544.00
Will have paid for itself (and gear) after 3 years (without reselling it).
Return is nearly 34% of "investment" per year.

Notes:
Costs include all gear/expenses whether I found the purchase valuable or not, and profit assumes total loss on all gear.

mlstephens · Post by **mlstephens** » Tue May 22, 2007 1:57 am

sunshinen wrote:My estimated savings based on 9 months of ownership (while keeping my car) by putting miles my on my scooter rather than on my car. (My math is terrible, so this could be riddled with errors in math logic.)

Annual Ownership Savings
Depreciation of vehicles – $150
Maintenance of vehicles – $894.64
Gas – $255.36
Parking – $130.00
Insurance – $12.00
Scooter Tax/registration – ($122)
Total: $1,320.00
Monthly: $110

Notes:
Estimating 5000 miles for the year at an average gas price of $2.75.
Savings includes costs of scooter ownership/year
Depreciation includes depreciation of car value per mile minus depreciation of scooter value per mile
Maintenance includes estimated per mile maintenance of my car (found on some car-shopping site) minus cost of maintaining scooter per mile (estimating 2 services conducted by dealership, rest done DIY, unexpected costs incurred per mile ridden (retapping the drain plug), and expected not yet incurred costs such as tires, etc.)
Insurance includes reduction in car insurance for designating it an occasional- rather than daily-use vehicle plus cost of adding insurance on scooter
Getting Started Costs
Scooter – $2,495.00
Jackets (summer and winter) – $358.00
Helmet – $250.00
Winter gear – $250
Gloves (summer and winter) – $128
Accessories (windshield, rear rack, basket) – $200.00
Reflective stuff – $20
Motorcycle License – $10.00
MSF course – $100.00
Chain and lock – $100

Total "Invested": $3,911.00
If sold after two years, savings/profit would be: $1,224.00
If sold after three years, savings/profit would be: $2,544.00
Will have paid for itself (and gear) after 3 years (without reselling it).
Return is nearly 34% of "investment" per year.

Notes:
Costs include all gear/expenses whether I found the purchase valuable or not, and profit assumes total loss on all gear.

Nice work. Although for me it is not about the savings, just doing the math (in my head today as I was riding to the hardware store) I figure that the purchase price alone would be offset completely in fuel savings after 8000 miles compared to my car @25mpg. The other stuff I consider "recreation" spending which I would have blown elsewhere anyway...
But it is really about the fun. A 30 minute commute doesn't seem like such a big deal on the scooter, but can be really frustrating in the car, for whatever reason. I really enjoy riding the scooter. And this weekend I get my Stella....

rajron · Post by **rajron** » Tue May 22, 2007 2:38 am

Boy I knew I was going to forget some things but.... I didn't think I would overlook everything

Tbone · Post by **Tbone** » Tue May 22, 2007 3:35 pm

mlstephens wrote: And this weekend I get my Stella....

I mean this in the nicest way but I HATE YOU!!!

(Being in CA, most Stella's aren't allowed in our state due to emissions)

CONGRATS THOUGH!

sunshinen · Post by **sunshinen** » Tue May 22, 2007 4:29 pm

mlstephens wrote: Nice work. Although for me it is not about the savings, just doing the math (in my head today as I was riding to the hardware store) I figure that the purchase price alone would be offset completely in fuel savings after 8000 miles compared to my car @25mpg. The other stuff I consider "recreation" spending which I would have blown elsewhere anyway...
But it is really about the fun. A 30 minute commute doesn't seem like such a big deal on the scooter, but can be really frustrating in the car, for whatever reason. I really enjoy riding the scooter. And this weekend I get my Stella....

Oh yeah. It is definitely the change in attitude towards my commute that makes it all worth while!! It's funny, it was the desire to save on gas and be more eco-friendly that first got me thinking about getting a scooter (and played heavily into what scooter I got). But honestly, I wouldn't take on the risks of scooter riding simply for that amount of money. It's the increase in the quality of life that makes it worth the risk. The savings are just a nice bonus!

sunshinen · Post by **sunshinen** » Tue May 22, 2007 4:31 pm

rajron wrote:Boy I knew I was going to forget some things but.... I didn't think I would overlook everything

I recently put together a very comprehensive budget for myself, so I tallied all the scooter stuff just to see how it actually was affecting my bottom line.

I paid my way through college, and I guess that feeling like every dime counts hasn't worn off yet!

Bryce-O-Rama · Post by **Bryce-O-Rama** » Wed May 23, 2007 2:52 am

Oil and filters are only one part of maintenance. You will also need to be sure that you get your valves adjusted, belt and roller weights changed, brakes checked and pads or shoes replaced. If you can handle that yourself, it will really save you on repair bills. Fortunately, the scooter should be easier to work on than a car. Even with that savings you will go through something like 5 - 10 sets of tires on a scooter to every 1 you would use on a car.

Post by **ericalm** » Wed May 23, 2007 6:35 am

Even counting all maintenance—rollers, valves, etc. as Bryce mentioned—I figure I'm saving quite a bit these days.

In the past, I have always owned used cars—paid in full—and have traditionally thought this was a responsible and money-saving way to go. Problem being that I could count on at least a couple grand per year in some kind of repairs, plus regular maintenance. Commuting in LA traffic not only put miles on the car, but it's pretty hard on it, with lots of stop-start traffic. It's death for a manual transmission, for sure. But in 2 years of scooter ownership? Not a single mechanical problem. Few new cars can even boast that.

So even though my 16 year old VW Cabriolet gets relatively good mileage, the more I scoot, the more savings I rack up. Now that I've started doing my own basic maintenance, that will only add up quicker.

weaseltamer · Post by **weaseltamer** » Wed May 23, 2007 6:50 am

mlstephens wrote:
But it is really about the fun. A 30 minute commute doesn't seem like such a big deal on the scooter, but can be really frustrating in the car, for whatever reason. I really enjoy riding the scooter.

very well put. i always seem slower with the finger on my scoot just because i'm happier when riding it (vs. car) in general. perhaps if i had a nicer car this would change.... but i don't have the $$ to call that bet just now.

Post by **ericalm** » Wed May 23, 2007 7:05 am

weaseltamer wrote:
mlstephens wrote:
But it is really about the fun. A 30 minute commute doesn't seem like such a big deal on the scooter, but can be really frustrating in the car, for whatever reason. I really enjoy riding the scooter.
very well put. i always seem slower with the finger on my scoot just because i'm happier when riding it (vs. car) in general. perhaps if i had a nicer car this would change.... but i don't have the $$ to call that bet just now.

See, I am having a dilemma. If I could get a better car than the one I have now, why would I? So I can let a nicer car sit in front of my house? Yet I think the Cabriolet's days are numbered... And the damn VentureOne isn't on the market yet...

mandelia · Post by **mandelia** » Wed May 23, 2007 2:57 pm

ericalm wrote:And the damn VentureOne isn't on the market yet...

that looks awesome, ericalm! any idea when they plan to start rolling them out?

sunshinen · Post by **sunshinen** » Wed May 23, 2007 2:59 pm

Bryce-O-Rama wrote:Oil and filters are only one part of maintenance. You will also need to be sure that you get your valves adjusted, belt and roller weights changed, brakes checked and pads or shoes replaced. If you can handle that yourself, it will really save you on repair bills. Fortunately, the scooter should be easier to work on than a car. Even with that savings you will go through something like 5 - 10 sets of tires on a scooter to every 1 you would use on a car.

Fortunately, scooter tires are much less expensive than car tires!

Yeah, that sort of stuff is why I calculated two services at the dealership per 5000 miles. I guesstimated an average of $760 per 5000 miles (even though I've ridden over 3000 miles and only spent $230 on services, which includes $100 for an expense most people won't have). That seems like a lot, but as Ericalm pointed out, unless you spend even more $$ buying a new car every couple years, the maintenance on a car really starts to add up. My car is a 2001 and it seems like every time I get an oil change there's some $300 cost on extra maintenance stuff. Then there's the belts and brakes and tires and transmission stuff that they don't do at the lube place...

Catalyst · Post by **Catalyst** » Wed May 23, 2007 3:04 pm

Spooky and I are having this great debate now. For over a decade now, we've had little more than a "token vehicle" (car or truck) and even when it sits, it costs us. Anually, the insurance was about $500-$600, if we bought the vehicle new, we had monthly payments, around $300, on top of that. Then there was the gas, and the maintenance, the anual taxes, tags, etc.

We paid just under $2,700 for the scooter (50cc), the extras, two helmets, and some reflective gear. We already had stuff laying around the house to make up the rest of the gear. (We love leather at my house. LOL)

Insurance is $160 per year

Maintenance/repair on our last vehicle (used) was almost $2,000. Brand new vehicle, maintenance was under warranty, but anything outside of that cost us a fortune.

None of that counts actually driving, which we did do sometimes.

The scooter? The only reason I had repairs was because of an accident, and to check it out and have the windshield replaced was under $300, not sure what teh new bezel and top piece ofr the handlebars will be, they haven't come in yet. Sooo, a wreck will, in total, cost me about $500 (for everything) or less.

A wreck with a car? These days, a fender bender costs a minimum of $3,000.

I fill up once or twice a month in gas. Right now, that would be about $10-$15 per month. To fill up a car the same number of times a month, right now, would be about $70.

Spooky (my husband) wants to see about renting a hybrid car. I'm of the opinion we just don't need one at all anymore. I'd rather just learn on the 50cc, get teh motorcycle certification on my license, and graduate to a 125cc. Then have him do the same thing. Send our youngest to a driver's ed class, then let her work with the 50cc to get her motorcycle certification.

The only reason we'd need a vehicle is if we had small children or hauled large items or large amounts of items. (It's illegal to put a child under the age of 5 on a motorcycle/scooter, I've recently learned this.)

Add in teh ability to order and have things delivered, it just makes it kinda useless (in most situations) to even bother owning a car.

BTW-----I will soon be posting a celebratory thread. My last payment on the scooter will be June 1st. I won't post until teh check clears.

I'M SO EXCITED!

louie · Post by **louie** » Thu May 24, 2007 12:17 am

Catalyst wrote:. I won't post until teh check clears.

I'M SO EXCITED!

yeeehaaa! and congrats. mine will be paid up in another month too, just before the interest charges begin to kick in.

I'm not sure i'm saving money though

. I take the loooong way home...i only live 2 or 3 miles from work, that's not far enough. I shop a lot more often because only so much fits under the seat. i joy ride. you can't get me in a car but now i'll go at the drop of a hat.

too fun.

xtetra · Post by **xtetra** » Thu May 24, 2007 4:14 am

sunshinen wrote: Fortunately, scooter tires are much less expensive than car tires!

Yeah, I giggled for 15 min. when I saw the price of them!

Gas prices are out of hand here. Cost me $3.87 to top off yesterday...thats almost as much as combo meal #1!!!!

I find that the lifestyle change is what's saving money. My wife and I seem to be able to happily coorrdinate errands more now and since I don't have the carrying capacity of my car anymore I'm not running around collecting junk we don't need.

mlstephens · Post by **mlstephens** » Thu May 24, 2007 1:49 pm

sunshinen wrote:
Fortunately, scooter tires are much less expensive than car tires!

They're actually less expensive than good road bicycle tires! And last a whole lot longer.

ThisDude · Post by **ThisDude** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:05 am

We forgot to put that if you drive a new car AND a new scooter, not only does the scooter save gas but it also keeps your car from depreciating from mileage. I know cause my truck is worthless, 70,000 miles on an '05 Colorado. If I put those miles on a scooter it wouldn't cost me more than I lost on depreciation.

KidDynomite · Post by **KidDynomite** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:10 pm

Bryce-O-Rama wrote:Oil and filters are only one part of maintenance. You will also need to be sure that you get your valves adjusted, belt and roller weights changed, brakes checked and pads or shoes replaced.

Hey Bryce......how often should I be replacing my rollers and what happens if I don't?