I completed my MSF course today too

Post by **polianarchy** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 6:48 pm

Mmmmm...GOT IT!!!

Yay!!!

lobsterman · Post by **lobsterman** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:09 pm

polianarchy wrote:Mmmmm...GOT IT!!!
Yay!!!

Excellent! Well done! Congrats etc etc

Tbone · Post by **Tbone** » Tue May 01, 2007 9:15 pm

gt1000 (Andy)

Here in CA people aren't supposed to be operating 2 wheeled motorized vehicles without the M classification skill and written testing done. Not to say that they don't. Hell, in CA every driver is supposed to have insurance yet there's a lovely little (non-insured driver) add on to most auto coverage.

Being I've never ridden more than a few yards on a scooter or motor bike, I'm taking the MSF here 1st before I even get my bike (My wife and I are in a big debate over the Buddy Italia or Modern Vespa's. Plus, she won't let me get the bike until I've taken the test!) Once I pass the class I get a cert where I do not have to take the skills test by the CA DMV but still need to pass the written test to get the M Classification for my Drivers License.

In talking with a few shop owners here in CA, they won't let the owners ride off the lot and are hesitant to let them take the bikes if there's no M class on the CDL or certifications.

Unless I can walk on this week or next weeks MSF class, I won't be able to see if I can bring the scooter (whichever we decide upon in the next week or two!)

I have my feelings and guess as to why you made this statement. I would be interested to read why you think this:

"And, in my opinion, mixing scooters and motorcycles in the same class isn't the way to go (I'll try to explain this in another response or a new topic). "

Please post a new thread about this.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue May 01, 2007 9:35 pm

Tbone wrote:gt1000 (Andy)

Here in CA people aren't supposed to be operating 2 wheeled motorized vehicles without the M classification skill and written testing done. Not to say that they don't. Hell, in CA every driver is supposed to have insurance yet there's a lovely little (non-insured driver) add on to most auto coverage.

Being I've never ridden more than a few yards on a scooter or motor bike, I'm taking the MSF here 1st before I even get my bike (My wife and I are in a big debate over the Buddy Italia or Modern Vespa's. Plus, she won't let me get the bike until I've taken the test!) Once I pass the class I get a cert where I do not have to take the skills test by the CA DMV but still need to pass the written test to get the M Classification for my Drivers License.

In talking with a few shop owners here in CA, they won't let the owners ride off the lot and are hesitant to let them take the bikes if there's no M class on the CDL or certifications.

Unless I can walk on this week or next weeks MSF class, I won't be able to see if I can bring the scooter (whichever we decide upon in the next week or two!)

I have my feelings and guess as to why you made this statement. I would be interested to read why you think this:

"And, in my opinion, mixing scooters and motorcycles in the same class isn't the way to go (I'll try to explain this in another response or a new topic). "

Please post a new thread about this.

You CAN ride in CA with just a permit, meaning you take the written test first. You should get your permit and insurance before taking the MSF, especially if you plan on doing it on your scoot. (Which, BTW, is allowed if you have a 125.) The permit allows you to ride in daytime without a passenger.

Some dealers do allow test rides, but usually only if you have your class M and are insured. That's pretty reasonable IMHO—lots of potential liability issues there.

Tbone · Post by **Tbone** » Tue May 01, 2007 9:58 pm

Do you know how much I'm in love with you right now Eric?!?!?!

Sorry the way I was reading/interpreting the permit I thought it was for the under 18 person! WOOHOO!!! Gotta bone up on the Motorbike booklet as well as general driving booklet to take that written test.

Dropping by the insurance place today to talk about mc insurance amongst other pending things with them today.

You just made my afternoon! THANKS!!!

EBee · Post by **EBee** » Mon May 14, 2007 11:25 am

Guess what I did Mother's Day weekend...I PASSED THE MSF COURSE!!

I got permission to use my Buddy 125 and don't regret it one bit. I was the only scooter in the class and halfway through the first day I think some were wishing they'd gotten a scooter instead of a motorcycle. I don't think the others took my scoot seriously until they saw it get up to speed and then do the weave and the emergency swerve. Then some of the guys started asking how fast it went and what mpg was like and then gave a little more respect

I kinda psyched myself out on the box...I was doing it fine during practice but when it came time to be tested I totally choked, but still managed to pass. It was hard work but so much fun...
Anyway, now I'm legal!! it feels so gooooood

louie · Post by **louie** » Mon May 14, 2007 1:19 pm

EBee wrote:Guess what I did Mother's Day weekend...I PASSED THE MSF COURSE!!

congrats ebee.

lobsterman · Post by **lobsterman** » Mon May 14, 2007 1:58 pm

EBee wrote:Guess what I did Mother's Day weekend...I PASSED THE MSF COURSE!!

I kinda psyched myself out on the box...I was doing it fine during practice but when it came time to be tested I totally choked, but still managed to pass. It was hard work but so much fun...
Anyway, now I'm legal!! it feels so gooooood

EB,

Excellent! Congratulations! etc. etc.

I had the identical experience when I did the MSF, right down to choking in the box after doing it right every time in practice. Doing the test when you're tired after two long days of riding can be hard, but you passed; that's one more rider that can legally travel the congested roads of Cincinnati.

louie · Post by **louie** » Mon May 14, 2007 2:23 pm

that darn box. my instructors didn't count off more than 4 points for the box for anyone; no more than 2 for going outside the box and no more than 2 for putting your foot down. I chose 2 points for going outside the box and it became a big box, but only 2 points worth.
I rode for the first time ever that w/e on a 125 kawasaki. turning on it is more difficult than on the buddy. 7 months later i still practice it int he parking lot across the alley, the concrete in the lot is laid in 20x20' blocks (the size of "the box"). I can do it in about a 15 x 15 square now.

EBee · Post by **EBee** » Tue May 29, 2007 12:34 am

I have a question that no other riders can seem to answer. When I just recently got my MC license done at the DMV, they put the designation "Novice" on it. When I asked what that meant, they said that was on there for a year. But what does it MEAN? What is the point of that designation? Nobody could say. And also, I don't renew my auto license until 2008...and had to pay for having it done to get the motorcycle designation on it. So does that mean I have to come back in a year to get "Novice" off?

peabody99 · Post by **peabody99** » Tue May 29, 2007 1:29 am

I am in the same boat as you. I think any police officer could do the math after a year to see you are not a novice and ticket you for anything that they could during your novice year (and surely it could be gently pointed out if needed). I am hoping my ego will not inflate so that I need to go in and pay $25 and waste an hour of my life in line just to get that off. you never know though.

lobsterman · Post by **lobsterman** » Tue May 29, 2007 10:17 am

EBee wrote:I have a question that no other riders can seem to answer. When I just recently got my MC license done at the DMV, they put the designation "Novice" on it. When I asked what that meant, they said that was on there for a year. But what does it MEAN? What is the point of that designation? Nobody could say. And also, I don't renew my auto license until 2008...and had to pay for having it done to get the motorcycle designation on it. So does that mean I have to come back in a year to get "Novice" off?

The "novice" designation in Ohio means this:

". . . No person who is under the age of eighteen years, or who holds a motorcycle operator's endorsement or license bearing a "novice" designation that is currently in effect as provided in section 4507.13 of the Revised Code, shall operate a motorcycle on a highway, or be a passenger on a motorcycle, unless wearing a protective helmet on his head, and no other person shall be a passenger on a motorcycle operated by such a person unless similarly wearing a protective helmet. . . ."

I had taken what I read to mean a novice had to wear a helmet, but was not real concerned as I wear one anyway. Reading it now, it sounds like they're saying you have to wear a helmet on a highway.

I'll try and dig up the stuff I got when I first got the scooter. I know it's in there somewhere.

codemonkey · Post by **codemonkey** » Tue May 29, 2007 3:11 pm

Weird. In california, an M is an M is an M. And everyone has to wear a helmet.

EBee · Post by **EBee** » Tue May 29, 2007 3:15 pm

lobsterman wrote: I'll try and dig up the stuff I got when I first got the scooter. I know it's in there somewhere.

Thanks Kevin...I was starting to wonder if Novice meant the officer was harder on you if you got pulled over.

I was trying to find this information in the Motorcycle manual from the BMV but didn't see anything.

lobsterman · Post by **lobsterman** » Tue May 29, 2007 4:15 pm

Also found this link:
http://www.bmv.ohio.gov/pdf_forms/HSY-7607.pdf

To sum up the link:

A novice must wear a helmet at all times.
A novice is anyone with less than one year of experience as a licensed motorcycle operator.
Anyone under 18 is a novice, regardless of experience.
Any passenger of a novice has to wear a helmet as well.

There's lots of interesting and useful information in the document. I recommend everyone in Ohio read it in full, and if possible commit it to memory.

hangukhurley · Post by **hangukhurley** » Wed May 30, 2007 4:17 am

codemonkey wrote:Weird. In california, an M is an M is an M. And everyone has to wear a helmet.

I think in Minnesota, an M means "medical alert." I had an M on my DL for drug allergies before taking and passing my MSF course. The motorcycle endorsement is in very fine print on the back of my DL.

Tbone · Post by **Tbone** » Wed May 30, 2007 4:42 pm

Looking at 2 different confirmation print outs:

June 6, 2007 at 3pm. Written test at CA DMV

June 21st, 2007 Motorcycle Basic Rider Course

Last 2 items (BESIDES the scooter

) on the list is a helmet and as much as she's bitching since I JUST bought steel toes for my 2nd job at IKEA (the shoe doesn't cover the ankles) I need boots!

I'm studying every day the motorcycle book from CA DMV and rereviewing the Car driving manual (and remembering exactly how many laws I break on just about a daily basis!) for the written test. I'm working hard to pass that test so I can get that permit and start test riding. My wife is now tired of the talk! HEHEHEHE "Get the freakin thing already!!!"

Soon...oh so very soon!!!

codemonkey · Post by **codemonkey** » Wed May 30, 2007 4:50 pm

Just so you know, here in CA they make you take a short written test for cars at the same time as you take the written motorcycle test. I don't know why. It's crazy.

Tbone · Post by **Tbone** » Wed May 30, 2007 4:52 pm

Tis why I'm studying from both books. Just focusing a bit more on the motorcycle booklet.

codemonkey · Post by **codemonkey** » Wed May 30, 2007 4:55 pm

They'll also let you take the test over and over again until you pass. If it's the end of the day and they're getting ready to close, you can just come back the next day without even making an appointment.

I kept screwing up on the alcohol questions (I don't drink so my brain just blipped over that section in the booklet.)

barooo · Post by **barooo** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 5:55 pm

I too passed MSF this weekend. Having read Proficient Motorcycling, the safety portions were a bit redundant but still good info. The driving was fun. Only one person in the class crashed, they were having major problems getting the whole clutch/throttle thing down and popped a wheelie after dumping the clutch with it revved way up. They seemed to figure it out after that, they only lost points for the curve on the test.

I never did get down the figure 8, the closest I came was either making half of it then putting a foot down, or going a foot or so outside the box. Everyone kept telling me I need to turn my head more, so I guess I need to turn my head more

On the test, I kept my feet up the whole way, but crossed the lines on both turns by a good couple of feet.

Lost one additional point for taking a tenth of a second to long to do the exercise with the curves, but I nailed it as far as execution. I took the course on a suzuki gz250, which was pretty easy to ride, although it felt about 10 times bigger than the buddy. Now I want a motorcycle for longer trips or highways.

Went to the DMV at lunch and got my class M license. I'm now fully legal, or something...

Tbone · Post by **Tbone** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:18 pm

Well I'm now 1/2 legal to operate a 2 wheeled motorized vehicle in the state of CA...during daylight hours...

Passed my written test yesterday!!!

NOW I can test ride the Buddy and Vespa and TRULY decide which will be my ride!

I can't wait, nor can the wife. She's tired of all the talk AND wants the car to herself

I'm "GETTING" my scooter on Sunday! Most likely with upgrades and all I won't be scooting on Sunday but soon enough!!!

Take the MSF on the 21st-23rd. I will update after that AND possible have at least 1 photo of the new scoot posted.

codemonkey · Post by **codemonkey** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:20 pm

Be careful on those test rides. I wiped out right when I got my scoot.

maryvu · Post by **maryvu** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:24 pm

me too, first right turn out of the alley behind the dealership! How embarassing. good thing the buddy was mine when I did it. I was horrified, but I'm kind of glad I got the first lay down out of the way so early in our "relationship."

I took the MSF class the following weekend. Now that I know what's what with handling, I believe that I hit my front brakes turning out of the alley.

cheers,
M

codemonkey · Post by **codemonkey** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:03 pm

I went from 0 to 20 in about 2 seconds and freaked

Tbone · Post by **Tbone** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 1:42 pm

As my instructor put it, I am now endorsed to operate a two wheeled motorized vehicle in the state of CA at 20 mph in a parking lot

I PASSED!!!

Missed 2 on the written test (didn't bother checking which 2)

and 100% on the skills test!!!

Box of death (double U turn inside a 20 foot box)! NAILED IT!!!

Well I lie, I struggled with it all day except 2 times. Once in mid morning and during the test. You REALLY have to get your ass off the seat and crank your kneck around while maintaining a low/steady throttle. Other wise, foot on the ground or out of the lines!

As my wife was picking me up she sighed, smiled and laughed upon hearing the news. 3 days too late!

Going to call insurance later today to see if passing the class will lower my insurance rate...now after the spill and the claim...BUT, I am awaiting the form to take it in to the CA DMV to officially be an M1 driver!!!

lobsterman · Post by **lobsterman** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:00 pm

congratulations Tbone!

pcbikedude · Post by **pcbikedude** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 5:11 am

I passed the MSF course a week ago. I've been driving on a permit since late May. The form arrived on Thursday and I took it and got my temporary license.

My experience with the MSF, the range bikes were in terrible shape. The first day on the course I had to power down that to get the bike into neutral.

Plus, it shifted awlfully. I felt it was my fault and until I talked to a friend that had a larger bike in good shape. She let me ride that bike. It was a dream.

The next Saturday out, I insisted on another bike. I got another bike that seemed much better. So I thought. Before a drill I was making sure the bike was in 1st. The gear shift sheared off! The instructor accused me of stomping on it. Yeah right. I had to finish the class with a bike that kept stalling.

But the MSF course was overall a positive thing. But it has given me the bug to buy a larger bike.

Morgy · Post by **Morgy** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 5:11 pm

I'll add my contgrats to the recent passer of the MSF test. I failed at mine yesterday. BUT-i will add- the course is great (of couse Id rather have passed). Id never been on a motorcycle before Saturday - the test was Sunday. We used the 250 Honda Nighthawk. I got to were I was pretty comfortable on it but i blew a couple of relatively easy exercizes. Oddly, I got the tight figure 8's AND the swerve but i lost out on the quick stop and forgot to engage the clutch on the last exercise etc etc. Congrats - it is grueling AND very edcuational. Costs $175 and must use their motorbikes.

pcbikedude · Post by **pcbikedude** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:40 pm

Morgy wrote:I'll add my contgrats to the recent passer of the MSF test. I failed at mine yesterday. BUT-i will add- the course is great (of couse Id rather have passed). Id never been on a motorcycle before Saturday - the test was Sunday.

Sorry to hear that. If you have access to a motorcycle or scooter, try practicing in a parking lot somewhere. That's what helped me. At the very least, ride a bicycle and try some of the drills you did.

I didn't pass with flying colors. All day long I nailed the figure 8's until the test. My foot went down

.

cowgirl helmet · Post by **cowgirl helmet** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:43 pm

Hey Morgy -- we're pretty close to each other -- maybe we should connect, do a bit of practicing on our Buddies, and go to retake the road test together!

lobsterman · Post by **lobsterman** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:47 pm

pcbikedude wrote:I didn't pass with flying colors. All day long I nailed the figure 8's until the test. My foot went down .

Same exact thing happened to me. Made me mad as hell, only slightly tempered by the fact that I passed anyway. On a positive front, nobody other than that examiner has ever asked me to do a figure 8 like that.

The coaches will tell you that passing isn't so much the goal of the class, the goal is to learn about yourself and gain some skills as a rider if you decide you want to be one.

cowgirl helmet · Post by **cowgirl helmet** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:48 pm

Our coaches didn't tell us that.

They told us it was about getting our license so we could ride legally.

Morgy · Post by **Morgy** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:20 pm

thanks pcbike dude-very kind of you. im searching for someone local to practice with.

Morgy · Post by **Morgy** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:23 pm

thanks cowgirl helmet. id like to meet but i dont have a bike of any sort just yet.

EBee · Post by **EBee** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:49 pm

Man does THIS all sound familiar...I did great on the box, and we even got a chance to practice the exact test over and over for about 20 mins.

Test time: I choked.

I did pass, but barely scraped by, I think. And I was even using my own Sparkee! After I blew the box I had to work on concentrating on the rest of it. How embarassing...it IS an awesome course. In Ohio, it's FREE!

lobsterman · Post by **lobsterman** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:52 pm

cowgirl helmet wrote:Our coaches didn't tell us that. They told us it was about getting our license so we could ride legally.

I was going by memory from last fall, but here's a quote from http://www.motorcycle.ohio.gov/brc.htm :

Passing the Course
This course should not be viewed as a pass or fail experience. The Basic Rider Course is of great value to beginners and experienced riders alike in that it allows the student to learn about motorcycle operation and how to reduce the risk of riding a motorcycle.
Motorcycling is not for everyone. For those students which do not pass the Basic Rider Course, they have learned about motorcycling and their ability and desire to participate in the sport in a controlled environment under the watchful and helpful eye of trained instructors.

Maybe they do things different in DC... well of course they would.

lobsterman · Post by **lobsterman** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:56 pm

EBee wrote:it IS an awesome course. In Ohio, it's FREE!

Only free in Ohio if you're under 18. It's $25 for everybody else, but still a fantastic bargain and much cheaper than lots of other states.

un_designer · Post by **un_designer** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 8:17 pm

WOW that is CHEAP!!! i had to pay $190 for my MSF course, and THAT was the cheapest rate i could find.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:53 pm

Most states in some way subsidize their MSF programs. The degree to which they do often determines the cost of the class. In CA it's around $200. Yikes.

pcbikedude · Post by **pcbikedude** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:27 pm

Try $225 in CA.

Tbone · Post by **Tbone** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:54 pm

Yours is cheap. Mine cost me $238. Worth every penny too to ensure as best as possible that I pass and thusly get my M class designation!!!

Just gotta run over to DMV and basically hand them the paperwork now!

Dennis Abrams · Post by **Dennis Abrams** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:14 pm

I'm taking my class this coming Monday and Tuesday. If all goes well, I'll go get my license later in the week, then go Buddy shopping next weekend!

Tbone · Post by **Tbone** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:16 pm

Good luck!!! Please post a follow up to the course.

And of course when you get the scoot...PICTURES!!!

Dennis Abrams · Post by **Dennis Abrams** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:35 pm

Thanks -- I will!

Dennis Abrams · Post by **Dennis Abrams** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:02 am

OK. I passed.

The class was a lot of fun! I definitely learned a lot and feel a whole lot more confident about the whole scooter thing.

FYI, I rocked on braking and swerving. Very good on curves, and, well, not so good on the double U turn within that stupid blue box. (Although I did do it without tipping over and just BARELY going outside the box.

And to make things even more interesting, when we were lining up to do the last part of our driving test (going into curves), the skies opened up with a true Houston thunderstorm. By the time it was my turn it was pouring, but I did it with no problems...although when I got out of the curve I was driving directly into the wind/rain and could barely see where I was going...but who cares...I passed!

Tbone · Post by **Tbone** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:00 pm

CONGRATS!!!

lobsterman · Post by **lobsterman** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:48 pm

Dennis Abrams wrote:FYI, I rocked on braking and swerving. Very good on curves, and, well, not so good on the double U turn within that stupid blue box. (Although I did do it without tipping over and just BARELY going outside the box.

The figure 8 in a box (double U turn) trips up lots of folks, I hosed it on the exam after doing it perfectly all day in practice as well.

Congratulations on passing and have (safe) fun riding.

castleton · Post by **castleton** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:57 pm

My MSF experience: $125 (but priceless), aced the written exam, had one point taken off my curve for taking it a little fast (but was praised for my hard lean!), and as he handed me my certificate, the instructor said with a smile, "Great riding, but that was unconditionally the worst U-turn box I have ever seen!" I got 0 points for the U-turn, but complete points for everything else (-1 for curve), so passed the course & got my motorcycle license. (Like others, I'd aced the U-turn the day before.)

Our instructor emphasized safety value of the course, and said that all the items on the road test were valuable in the course of everyday driving *except* for the U-turn box. You need to know how to quick stop (used that a few times, too!) and turn/avoid obstacles etc., but turning around in a tight place at a slow speed is usually something you don't have to do at the spur of the moment (according to this instructor).

Slow U-turns do help you improve your handling, though, so I've practiced since & can now do them pretty well.

ancboyd · Post by **ancboyd** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:33 am

I just passed my MSF class today here in DE! The first day, I was very nervous, but did pretty well. I passed the written test with flying colors (fyi DE residents: the MSF written test is easier than the DMV learner's permit test)! Today was more challenging and the test was scary, but everyone in my class passed. I was one of only two girls and my score was better than many of the guys! Yea!

We have to use motorcycles for the course, but everyone was really interested in my scooter. The coaches asked me to come back by to show it to them! Everyone else had or wanted to get motorcycles, but they were really supportive of my scooter choice.....although some tried to convice me that motorcycles are more fun......they just haven't ridden a scooter yet!

Good Luck to Future students! It was the best $50 bucks I ever spent!

Happy cornering,
Nicole

Modern Buddy

I completed my MSF course today too

MSF course

Re: MSF course

Re: MSF course

I passed too!