Cold Weather Scooter Warriors

[Cheshire]

It's been a very cold winter here. Worst in years.

But it's funny how the little things really affect how cold it feels on any given ride. This morning at 31 derees, I was comfy, cozy, and surprised that the temp was still sub-freezing. But at lunch (I made an unusual mid-day outing to get out and enjoy the heat wave) it was 51 -- and I felt cold on the ride!

Differences: In the morning, it was sunny. I had just had a hot shower and spent 5 minutes with hot air blowing on my head. I expected it to still feel cold. I was not hungry.

At lunch, it was cloudy. I had been on the cold side of comfortable all morning. I expected the ride to be feel warm. I needed food.

I'm learning one of the worst things I can do is ride hungry. I get cold much faster and fatigue more quickly.

[Kaos]

It's been a very cold winter here. Worst in years.

But it's funny how the little things really affect how cold it feels on any given ride. This morning at 31 derees, I was comfy, cozy, and surprised that the temp was still sub-freezing. But at lunch (I made an unusual mid-day outing to get out and enjoy the heat wave) it was 51 -- and I felt cold on the ride!

Differences: In the morning, it was sunny. I had just had a hot shower and spent 5 minutes with hot air blowing on my head. I expected it to still feel cold. I was not hungry.

At lunch, it was cloudy. I had been on the cold side of comfortable all morning. I expected the ride to be feel warm. I needed food.

I'm learning one of the worst things I can do is ride hungry. I get cold much faster and fatigue more quickly.

Thats funny, I've noticed this as well. I'm not normally a breakfast guy, but if I don't eat breakfast when its cold outside I end up much colder and ravenously hungry at the other end of my commute.

[Tocsik]

It's been a very cold winter here. Worst in years.

But it's funny how the little things really affect how cold it feels on any given ride. This morning at 31 derees, I was comfy, cozy, and surprised that the temp was still sub-freezing. But at lunch (I made an unusual mid-day outing to get out and enjoy the heat wave) it was 51 -- and I felt cold on the ride!

Differences: In the morning, it was sunny. I had just had a hot shower and spent 5 minutes with hot air blowing on my head. I expected it to still feel cold. I was not hungry.

At lunch, it was cloudy. I had been on the cold side of comfortable all morning. I expected the ride to be feel warm. I needed food.

I'm learning one of the worst things I can do is ride hungry. I get cold much faster and fatigue more quickly.

Thats funny, I've noticed this as well. I'm not normally a breakfast guy, but if I don't eat breakfast when its cold outside I end up much colder and ravenously hungry at the other end of my commute.

Hmm...
Food for thought! It's been in the 20's for my morning commute (45 minutes or more at avg 50bmph). I'll have to start paying attention to this, too!
Thanks!

[TVB]

It's only once, but I've now logged a winter ride. This afternoon was sunny and the temperature struggled up to a balmy 35ºF, and it's been a while since we've had snow, so the main roads are mostly clear. So when one of my friends suggested a movie, I took the scooter. The Battery Tender Jr and Sta-bil apparently did the trick, because Flash started with only a little hestitation. Between gloves, ye olde lined leather jacket, and a scarf over my mouth and cheeks, I was OK. The ride home after dinner, after dark... was less pleasant. Denim jeans just don't keep out a 35mph 25ºF wind very well.

[jasondavis48108]

Today was 35 degrees here I think I might have pushed it a bit far though, I wanted to run out all of the old fuel from when I stored it in early december and so I went for a 2 hr ride. My hands, feet, and knees are killing me. Especialy the joints. I think I'm gonna invest in some serious mitts and a pair of snow pants. I think I could have avioded the foot problem by wearing my gaitors but I didn't think I'd need them with the balmy weather and all.

[Cheshire]

Cold and raining out. I finally got up the guts to test out the bicycling "lobster" 3-finger gloves. I was skeptical about the lack of gauntlet and how they'd perform at speed, but...my fingers were decent even after half an hour!! All my winter gloves left my fingers stinging after 10 minutes, but having my fingers paired up worked much better than I was expecting. My fingertips got a little cold, but it was a difference between a bit pink and the previous bright red and stinging.

Wind up my sleeves still happened, but with a little forethought and careful sleeve placement I got it down to a negligible minimum. Between these and the gaiters, I'm back in business. Woohoo!!

[Cheshire]

Salt.

How to other winter riders wash the salt off their scooters when it's hovering around or below freezing outside?

[Lostmycage]

Just hose it down when it's above freezing and you'll be fine.

Added bonus, having water flow through your pipes will keep them from freezing. Just be sure to put the spigot cover back on when you're done.

[kneil67@yahoo.com]

Salt.

How to other winter riders wash the salt off their scooters when it's hovering around or below freezing outside?

when it hits 35 just wash it then and when you see rust apply some white grease I wash mine weekly in the winter 67kneil youtube winter warrior

[McFlyMpls]

I feel almost guilty reading this thread.

...comments like that are a good way of gettin' hurt around here... especially this time of year. Not that I'm threatening, or anything.

Today we'll be 10° over the average. I have cold weather gear I haven't even gotten to use yet.

Thank god you didn't actually mention the actual temp in your area.

[gr8dog]

I was in Milwaukee this weekend to photograph the Badger State Hockey Tournament. It was in 6 different venues around the city. On Saturday I was at the Petit Olympic Training Center for 12 hours, 6am to 6pm. When we were packing our gear into the van to leave I noticed a guy putting on a helmet and standing next to his Vespa GTS250. We talked a little. He just pulled it out to ride because the roads are clear of ice. It was probably 20 deg and he did not even have any extra-warm gear to wear. It made me want to ride. I will see what February brings.

Side note: I watched some of the speed skaters practice on the long oval. These are the skaters who are going to the olympics. All I have to say is WOW I had no idea how fast they really go. Good work athleats and good luck.

[rondothemidget]

I can personally attest to the benefits of SmartWool's glove liners. I have a low-budget pair of "winter" gloves that had my fingers getting chilly riding in 50 degree weather. I've been wearing the liners inside my gloves for two weeks now and my fingers have been toasty warm ever since. Unfortunately I can't attest to their warmth below 50 degrees because it hasn't been that cold here in Southern California. $18 at REI - http://www.rei.com/product/755628

[SteMer]

It was 15 degrees on my ride into work this morning. A personal coldest for me. Windproof ski gear is the way to go. But I still need to look into those Powermadd handguards (or mitts) because it took a few minutes for my hands to thaw out.

[Cheshire]

What is this "white grease"? As far as rust: aside from the pipe, mirrors, and wheels, anything I need to be especially mindful to wash off?
I finally got to wipe down the scooter. Bucket of water, a huge auto sponge, and me on my hands and knees. I'm sure the scooter appreciated it!
The first few inches of the exhaust pipe where it connects under the scooter is starting to show signs of rust...not too bad, though. So far only surface. I'll keep an eye on it.

[Kaos]

What is this "white grease"? As far as rust: aside from the pipe, mirrors, and wheels, anything I need to be especially mindful to wash off?
I finally got to wipe down the scooter. Bucket of water, a huge auto sponge, and me on my hands and knees. I'm sure the scooter appreciated it!
The first few inches of the exhaust pipe where it connects under the scooter is starting to show signs of rust...not too bad, though. So far only surface. I'll keep an eye on it.

Interesting, my pipe sees rain 3/4 of the year and hasn't rusted at all. Its super grimy right now from road crap, but no rust.

My mirrors and windshield however HAVE rusted. I need to take some steel wool to them sometime soon.... And wash it....

[Cheshire]

What is this "white grease"? As far as rust: aside from the pipe, mirrors, and wheels, anything I need to be especially mindful to wash off?
I finally got to wipe down the scooter. Bucket of water, a huge auto sponge, and me on my hands and knees. I'm sure the scooter appreciated it!
The first few inches of the exhaust pipe where it connects under the scooter is starting to show signs of rust...not too bad, though. So far only surface. I'll keep an eye on it.

Interesting, my pipe sees rain 3/4 of the year and hasn't rusted at all. Its super grimy right now from road crap, but no rust.

My mirrors and windshield however HAVE rusted. I need to take some steel wool to them sometime soon.... And wash it....

I'm guessing it's all the salt/sand they've been dumping on the roads for the past month. Not sure, but seeing as I bought my scooter 2 days after a snow storm last year...it could have been there a while. :shrug: Or it could just be the paint looking funky. It's near what looks like the weld. My back was starting to despise me by that point, so I wasn't exactly 100% focused on what I was seeing. I'll double-check it later.

[sunshinen]

SALT.

I have a LOT of rust on my pipe. Some on my mirrors and rear rack. In the winter my condo complex tells everyone on the bottom floors to shut off water to the outdoor spigots so the pipes don't burst, and there aren't any DIY car washes nearby. So my scooter gets salted and then has only the rain to wash it off... I'll be replacing my pipe at some point. The way this winter is going, it'll be sooner rather than later. All snow and no rain has been catastrophic in terms of scooter rust.

[Stormswift]

My scoot was outside for only the first snow in December. I had it well covered, took garbage bags and securely wrapped them around all the bottom parts, chrome parts etc. Then the cover went over that. When I uncovered it it was completely dry. It was brought inside the house and is now hibernating in a safe dry place. I think I will be doing the same thing every year: Have oil changed before winter, load it up with Seafoam and drag it inside. I did not do oil change this time because it is so new it only has 30 miles on it, not even properly broken in yet, still on that first tank of gas. So I just "seafoamed" it, "Tenderised" the battery and hope for the best come spring. I saw neighbor's Kimco that always sits uncovered outside and that one has tons of rust on the piping. I wonder if it even works any more. I never see anyone riding it. Not sure why they even have it if they do not ride it and do not take care of it.

[ericalm]

Hey, Cold Weather Warriors: A nice review of the Corazzo Underhoody by Ron Arnold.

http://www.examiner.com/x-3223-Detroit- ... UnderHoody

[sunshinen]

I saw neighbor's Kimco that always sits uncovered outside and that one has tons of rust on the piping. I wonder if it even works any more. I never see anyone riding it. Not sure why they even have it if they do not ride it and do not take care of it.

Be careful about knocking others for not riding, when you're not riding. This is a winter warrioring thread, not a winter hibernating thread!! ( )

Covering it won't prevent the rust ... especially if you ride around in the salt. As far as I can tell, the only thing a cover is good for is for catching the wind and knocking the scooter over in a storm. Ok, that and, for vampires and others who don't have the scooter out during the day, protecting it from the sun. And hiding it from ne'er-do-wells. And, actually, it does make it much easier to clear the snow off, at least...

Relax, ride, enjoy the scooter. Scooters are meant to be ridden, not preserved. (Or in the case of bonegirl, ridden and then preserved because of how much it was ridden!)

There are about 8 million versions of this quote... but it sums up my sentiments nicely.
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming: Woo Hoo, what a ride!"

[Stormswift]

The thing is those neighbors never ride it, not in the summer, not in the winter. Never. That is why I wonder if it belongs to their kid away to college or something or they bought it thinking to use it and never did... The scoot really looks pitiful. They do take the trouble of parking it in front of one of their cars supposedly to prevent theft and I saw disk lock on a front wheel. Since the would be theves of my scooter skipped on theirs which was in plaine view, closer to the exit from our development and went after mine, also parked in front of my car and covered from head to toe...well that in itself tells the story
I hate to admit it but I am one of those folks that still have original Ipaq Pocket PC circa 2001 in running condition. Two of them actually (one was a hand-me-down). We use them as e-book readers. I never run any of my electronics into the ground. I suspect same will be true of the Buddy. It will be used nicely, enjoyed immensely, taken care of well and passed on to the dear son when he is 16 in mint condition with all original bells and whistles intact and low mileage. Dear son is 9 now. So I have some years to go before then

[Cheshire]

As I was getting ready for my commute this morning, a random thought passed through my head. (Man, gotta watch out for those. )

Sounds silly, but another thing that helps keep core temperature up is relieving yourself before you go out in cold weather. Your body has to work harder to keep you warm with a full bladder. I guess the blizzard conditions and winds last night is making all my boy scout wilderness stuff surface to memory.

[Tocsik]

21 degrees this morning in Denver. When I got to work, they looked at me like I was crazy! All I did was quote the iced tea commercial: "Man, that's brisk!"

[TVB]

Sounds silly, but another thing that helps keep core temperature up is relieving yourself before you go out in cold weather. Your body has to work harder to keep you warm with a full bladder. I guess the blizzard conditions and winds last night is making all my boy scout wilderness stuff surface to memory.

I would think that a reservoir of 98-degree fluid in your torso would make it easier to maintain body temperature, kind of like how the Great Lakes generally keep Michigan warmer than the Dakotas this time of year. Do you know why it wouldn't?

[Cheshire]

Sounds silly, but another thing that helps keep core temperature up is relieving yourself before you go out in cold weather. Your body has to work harder to keep you warm with a full bladder. I guess the blizzard conditions and winds last night is making all my boy scout wilderness stuff surface to memory.

I would think that a reservoir of 98-degree fluid in your torso would make it easier to maintain body temperature, kind of like how the Great Lakes generally keep Michigan warmer than the Dakotas this time of year. Do you know why it wouldn't?

Yup: it takes extra energy to KEEP that liquid at temp, instead of being used to keep YOU warm.

[Cheshire]

New anti-fog stuff recommendation: 303 Aerospace Protectant.
I was having a nightmare of a time with fogging and the resulting freezing my face off trying to get the faceshield to clear up. Heard about this stuff on another forum and thought I'd give it a try. Rode with my visor down the whole way and it worked wonderfully!

I picked it up at an auto upholstery shop for $15 for an 8 oz bottle. Apparently it's also handy in making bugs in summer easy to clean off. Next I'm going to try it on the windshield. Safe for plastic!
http://www.303products.com/

[Kaos]

New anti-fog stuff recommendation: 303 Aerospace Protectant.
I was having a nightmare of a time with fogging and the resulting freezing my face off trying to get the faceshield to clear up. Heard about this stuff on another forum and thought I'd give it a try. Rode with my visor down the whole way and it worked wonderfully!

I picked it up at an auto upholstery shop for $15 for an 8 oz bottle. Apparently it's also handy in making bugs in summer easy to clean off. Next I'm going to try it on the windshield. Safe for plastic!
http://www.303products.com/

How long does it last? Is it an apply it and forget it spray, or a every other time I go out fix?

I've been doing the 'buff in some liquid dish soap' fix, but its gotta be done really often to stay effective.

[Cheshire]

I just put it on about this time last night, so only 24 hours real-time test. I don't like constantly having to treat something like a visor, so I guess I'll find out how long it takes to need another application and report back.

[TVB]

Yup: it takes extra energy to KEEP that liquid at temp, instead of being used to keep YOU warm.

It doesn't take any extra energy to maintain the temperature of the liquid unless it's exposed to the cold. Any heat it might radiate goes into the surrounding body tissue, replacing heat already lost to the environment. Any fluids in the body are effectively part of the body, and all else being equal, a larger body is always easier to keep warm than a smaller one. By emptying your bladder, you're literally pissing away a reserve supply of warmth. The only time a bladderful of urine would be a liability is after your internal temperature has dropped, when you're trying to warm it back up. So wait until you get home.

[Lostmycage]

Is thread the latest to fall victim to another ridiculous pissing contest?

[siobhan]

I've been rocking my Foggy mask since Santa left it under the tree and it's been fantastic. No fog on my shield, no fog on my glasses, and it keeps the cold off my cheeks.

It's also great when I'm gassing up in my 'hood because it makes me look like a nutjob.

http://www.respro.com/products/racing/r ... oggy_mask/
Santa shopped at the Aerostich site.

[Cheshire]

Is thread the latest to fall victim to another ridiculous pissing contest?

Ya know...forget I said anything.

[TVB]

Ya know...forget I said anything.

I'm not trying to be argumentative. It just seemed counter-intuitive and I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something that might explain it. The explanation you were given didn't. I find scientific inquiry interesting because it's how I learn things, and I'm sorry if that seemed like a personal confrontation or challenged a cherished bit of folklore.

[ThinAir]

It doesn't take any extra energy to maintain the temperature of the liquid unless it's exposed to the cold. ...a larger body is always easier to keep warm than a smaller one. ....

This is counter to what I've learned in various mountaineering sources, which suggest peeing to help keep you warm. What is your source for this info that a larger mass is easier to keep warm than a small mass?

[TVB]

What is your source for this info that a larger mass is easier to keep warm than a small mass?

It's commonly called the Square-Cube Law. For example, if you double the size of an object,* its volume goes up by a factor of 2-cubed (8 ), but its surface area only goes up by a factor of only 2-squared (4). The amount of heat stored in a body is proportional to its volume, but the rate at which it loses heat is proportional to its surface area, so a larger body cools more slowly.

It's why mice are furry and have to eat 33% of their weight in food every day to maintain their body temperature, but an elephant is bald with huge heat-radiating ears and gets by on 3%. It's why a 3-foot kid needs to be bundled up more thoroughly in cold weather than a 6-foot adult. The same principle (in reverse) is why it takes longer to thaw a 12-pound frozen turkey than an 8-pound turkey... especially if it's stuffed with ice.

Like I said, if there's something that compensates for this principle and actually overcomes it in this specific example, I'm genuinely curious to learn what it is. But I'm not convinced by "so-and-so told me that Galileo was wrong".

*i.e. instead of a 1-foot cube, it's a 2-foot cube

[gr8dog]

Back on topic here. I saw two Motorcycle's today. One heading up Hwy 41 toward Green Bay, the other here in Neenah. The temp today was about 30 deg, roads clear, parking lots still suck. I didn't get a chance to see their gear. I wanted to see what a sport-biker wears to suffer through 30 degrees at 70mph.

Also, I wanted to ask if either had to pee.

[Coffeejunkie]

With all the snow and really poor weather down here in Atlanta I've felt more like a Cold Weather Surrender Monkey than a warrior lately.

[DennisD]

Back on topic here. I saw two Motorcycle's today. One heading up Hwy 41 toward Green Bay, the other here in Neenah. The temp today was about 30 deg, roads clear, parking lots still suck. I didn't get a chance to see their gear. I wanted to see what a sport-biker wears to suffer through 30 degrees at 70mph.

Also, I wanted to ask if either had to pee.

Probably wool socks with their sneaks and surrender the wife beater for long sleeve tee.