Advice on Selling

Quo Vadimus · Post by **Quo Vadimus** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:18 pm

Soon I'll be selling dear, dear Daisy and moving up to the 150 class. But here's what I'm wondering, for those who've sold a bike in the past...

Did you allow test rides? Did you require a deposit/visual confirmation of endorsement/insurance/anything else?

And if you have any other advice. But I'm mainly concerned by the fact that *I* wouldn't buy a used bike without a test ride, but *I* don't trust any doofus that comes out to see if they can wheelie the moped.

Thanks,

QV

KABarash · Post by **KABarash** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:17 pm

Well, when I bought mine, the seller required that I had a valid MC indorsement and I left a deposit for the ride. But then again we were strangers and it was a 150.
When I bought the Met, the seller was a friend of my son's, son had already ridden it, so I got to have my turn one evening! ANd it was left here for a few days due to sudden torrential rain and I drove the friend home in the Jeep and he said I could go ahead and ride it whenever I'd like.

I guess it's ALL up to you!

iwabj · Post by **iwabj** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:20 pm

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:58 pm

If you're selling a 50cc, requiring a motorcycle endorsement is going to seem a little demanding, since they don't legally need that to ride it. As long as they were leaving something behind (e.g. their car, a friend) so I know they're coming back, and I believe that they knew what they were doing, I'd let them take it for a ride around the block. In case they damage it on the test ride, I'd make it clear ahead of time that if they break it, they bought it.

Post by **Lostmycage** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:08 pm

If it's a stranger, I'd want the full amount in my hands before they go on a ride. If they want to negotiate after a test ride, they can. If they come back and it's damaged, have the title there ready for them.

Above all else, make sure there is a clear and thorough understanding of the conditions of a test ride. If the "potential buyer" is combative about this, then they aren't likely someone you want to sell to in the first place. This will weed out joyriders.

charlie55 · Post by **charlie55** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:17 pm

I recently lost a sale because of insisting that the buyer (a stranger to me) leave a deposit before taking a test ride. I originally asked for the full purchase price (as in "you break it, you buy it"), but eventually relented and was willing to settle for just a hundred bucks as security. This still wasn't good enough for the buyer who insisted that asking for a deposit raised a "red flag" in their minds. So, I wished them luck and let them walk. As previously stated, this type of buyer is not someone with whom doing business is going to be a pleasure, so why aggravate yourself.

In so far as just holding the keys to their vehicle as security, well, I don't see how that does any good. Think about it:

- You take their keys.
- They wreck the scoot or cause an accident.
- They want their keys back.
- You say no.
- They call the cops.
- The cops tell you that you have no legal claim to the vehicle.
- The buyer gets their vehicle back.
- You're screwed, unless you want to get tied up in court.

So, my advice is to insist on a security deposit. While the buyer can prove that they own their vehicle, cash belongs to whoever is holding it.

Post by **Lostmycage** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:11 pm

And no personal checks!

Qualish · Post by **Qualish** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:24 pm

I just recently bought my Buddy used from a stranger on Craigslist.

When we purchased my wife and I met the seller at a very public place. I felt this was good for both of us to keep it neutral and help us feel safe. I don't know how reliable it is but I really feel a large part of how it was handled was on "gut feel". The seller looked normal and (I assume) she thought we looked normal as well. She went over the basics of the scooter and how to operate and I took it on a test drive while my wife continued talking with her asking more specific vehicle history questions. So I suppose in this instance my wife was a security deposit of sorts...

If the seller had asked for the cash in hand or a cash deposit prior to the test drive I would have wanted to confirm that the seller had a clean transferable title to confirm the vehicle was indeed hers to sell. Personally, if she asked for cash up front it would have raised red flags *for me* and make me wonder if the scooter was stolen, etc.

If a buyer shows up alone and goes for a test drive I don't see why it would be inappropriate to take down a license number, etc. Right or wrong, I tend to rely on my "gut" with stuff like this.

Please forgive me if this is rambling... I have a cold that seems to have clouded my brain (don't worry, I'm not driving my scooter in this condition!).

EDIT: Oh, and I completely agree with Lostmycage. Cash is king. No checks!

charlie55 · Post by **charlie55** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:05 pm

Qualish wrote:If the seller had asked for the cash in hand or a cash deposit prior to the test drive I would have wanted to confirm that the seller had a clean transferable title to confirm the vehicle was indeed hers to sell. Personally, if she asked for cash up front it would have raised red flags *for me* and make me wonder if the scooter was stolen, etc.

As you noted, the seller can easily confirm that they actually own the scoot and have a right to sell it. Additionally, the buyer can also confirm their identity and qualifications (where necessary). Putting aside the possibility of theft, the one thing that the buyer absolutely cannot do is guarantee that they're not going to damage or destroy the scoot, regardless of who is at fault. If the seller has their cash in hand, then the buyer gets to eat the scoot. If not, then the seller will probably have to go through legal/insurance channels with all of the ensuing aggravation.

I guess that the best way to go about it would be to have a sort of written, signed "pre-nup" agreement covering the test ride and what happens/who pays if the worst happens. Legalistic overkill in most circumstances, but a good CYA when dealing with dirtbags.

Brings another point to mind: check your insurance to see if it covers riders other than the policy holder.

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:46 pm

charlie55 wrote:In so far as just holding the keys to their vehicle as security, well, I don't see how that does any good.

That's OK, because no one suggested doing that. I'd make sure they left a vehicle or friend behind, only so I know they'll be returning with the scooter, not to try to hold them hostage as insurance against damage.

If someone's worried enough about damage, they can demand a full deposit, I suppose, but they'd be alienating potential customers that way. (I know they'd lose me.) That's a choice. I wouldn't do it, but like safety gear and how fast one rides, it all comes down to personal comfort.

charlie55 · Post by **charlie55** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:06 pm

TVB wrote:I'd make sure they left a vehicle or friend behind, only so I know they'll be returning with the scooter.....

Yeah, but with my luck they'll either leave a stolen vehicle or an ex-spouse behind as collateral.

You're right: we all have different levels of comfort, especially when it comes to trust. As for me, when it's my property on the line, it all comes down to "money talks, BS walks".

BuddyLicious · Post by **BuddyLicious** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:26 pm

I assume whomever would be purchasing a scooter would already have at least some experience operating one.In this case I would offer to give em a ride on back,this way they could see the seller's scoot is ok mechanically and ready for sale.Of course the prospective buyer can sit on and fiddle with the scoot just to be sure the scoot fits or whatever else.

iwabj · Post by **iwabj** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:48 pm

Qualish · Post by **Qualish** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:51 pm

BuddyLicious wrote:I assume whomever would be purchasing a scooter would already have at least some experience operating one.In this case I would offer to give em a ride on back,this way they could see the seller's scoot is ok mechanically and ready for sale.Of course the prospective buyer can sit on and fiddle with the scoot just to be sure the scoot fits or whatever else.

I think in my instance you would have lost a sale. No way would I take a ride as a passenger in lieu of a solo test drive. ... I would be creeped out if the seller suggested they give me a ride.

brape · Post by **brape** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:57 pm

What about meeting in a big empty parking lot for a church or something, maybe park your car across the driveway so that the scooter has to stay in the lot? Also if you are that uncomforitable selling it yourself maybe you should just trade it in for the new 150? You'll get less, but won't have to deal with the hassle.

Howardr · Post by **Howardr** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:33 am

You might be able to avoid some of all this hassle by trying to sell within your network of friends, co-workers, facebook peeps etc. Then , most of those questions listed above will be moot.

Plus, I would look at the trade-in option as well. Hopefully the market is better where you're at, but here in AZ, you can't give away used scooters.

Howard

iwabj · Post by **iwabj** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:21 am

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:07 am

brape wrote:What about meeting in a big empty parking lot for a church or something, maybe park your car across the driveway so that the scooter has to stay in the lot? Also if you are that uncomforitable selling it yourself maybe you should just trade it in for the new 150? You'll get less, but won't have to deal with the hassle.

I think if I were selling a scooter to a stranger, this is the way I would go. A parking lot is pleanty large enough to get a feel for how the scooter rides and you can keep them in eyesight. If they leave the lot, call the cops and report it stolen. I also like the idea of selling to a friend or a friend of a friend. This way you know it won't get stolen and you know the home that your baby is going to. Although the best option is to keep the old scooter and buy a new one

Quo Vadimus · Post by **Quo Vadimus** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:33 am

Brape - excellent idea. Thank you. This will be a major part of the plan.

Part of my concern with wanting a deposit is the curse of the 50cc bike - I can't judge someone for not having a cycle endorsement - you don't legally need it here (and I don't even have mine yet) - but I'm thinking that the accessibility increases the chances of a potential buyer being prone to crashing (due to inexperience or trickery).

Maybe I'll be unable to pass the skills test, and I won't be able to sell Daisy at all!

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:39 am

iwabj wrote:This is an interesting topic. There are some places that are <in the business of selling> BRAND NEW scooter/motorcycles and they won't permit you to take them out.

One important difference is that a new scooter that's been test-ridden too much - and especially if it's been in an accident - isn't a "new scooter" any more, and loses a lot more sale value than a used one from that fact.

chloefpuff · Post by **chloefpuff** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:03 am

TVB wrote:
iwabj wrote:This is an interesting topic. There are some places that are <in the business of selling> BRAND NEW scooter/motorcycles and they won't permit you to take them out.
One important difference is that a new scooter that's been test-ridden too much - and especially if it's been in an accident - isn't a "new scooter" any more, and loses a lot more sale value than a used one from that fact.

When I bought the first not-so-ToughBunny (50cc) from the dealer there was no test ride. That made me nervous, no "try it before you buy it". OTO, I'd never ridden before, so I bet the idea of me on their bike made the dealer nervous!

iwabj · Post by **iwabj** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:07 am

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:10 am

chloefpuff wrote:
TVB wrote:
iwabj wrote:This is an interesting topic. There are some places that are <in the business of selling> BRAND NEW scooter/motorcycles and they won't permit you to take them out.
One important difference is that a new scooter that's been test-ridden too much - and especially if it's been in an accident - isn't a "new scooter" any more, and loses a lot more sale value than a used one from that fact.
When I bought the first not-so-ToughBunny (50cc) from the dealer there was no test ride. That made me nervous, no "try it before you buy it". OTO, I'd never ridden before, so I bet the idea of me on their bike made the dealer nervous!

when I bought my scooter at scoot around town in ypsilanti I had never ridden a scooter before and I didn't have my endorsement but they let me test ride it in thier parking lot. I'm sure its because my dealer is the awesomest dealer ever though

rsrider · Post by **rsrider** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:20 am

Put in your ad that no test rides without cash in hand. And when they call to look at it, remind them that you want the cash in hand if they're going to test ride. If they show up and tell you they're not going to hand over the cash, tell them bye. (and also, bitch them out for wasting your time) Have them sign a release, cause if they bin it, they may not pay you, but they also might sue you. This world we live in is litigious as hell. I took a check when I sold my Daytona 650, but I knew the guys girlfriend, so no problem. If you don't know them, no check.

MC dealers rarely give test rides. BMW, Ducati, Triumph are exceptions. Those guys offer demo days where you can go hang out and ride almost every model in their inventory. Lot of times they throw in free food. BMW has the kind espresso machines in their stores and you can always get a cuppa. Also, if you're under 25, fergeddaboutit. Dealers won't let you on the bike. And of course without a valid M1, you're not going anywhere. OTHO, if you're old like me, they throw the frackin keys at you if you even seem remotely interested.

Post by **Lostmycage** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:15 am

Friends are a different story every time. A different story for every friend, too.

For Strangers:
95% of it comes down to a "gut feeling".

Don't waste your time or theirs. Let them know the exact conditions of what you're comfortable with on the phone before they show up. If they show up, they're agreeing to your terms. DO NOT CHANGE THOSE TERMS. Plan it out ahead of time.

If you hold the cash (again, CASH, not keys, friends, checks or anything else) then they should hold the title. What the heck do you care? If they wreck it, drop it or otherwise ruin it the only thing left is to sign the title over. The transaction is done. If you offer them the title (again, with the explanation of the terms) they can't get too huffy on you.

Meet near your house at a familiar place/ parking lot, but not at your house.

If they give you grief about it just being a scooter (or grief for any reason) don't relent; it's your bike and your decision.

If a test ride is in order, they can do so in a parking lot (granted, a large one) with your supervision. If the steering, braking, clutch or frame is out of spec, it's usually pretty easy to notice pretty quickly. Remind them of this if they insist on an unsupervised ride. This is a consolation test ride where the cash/title exchange above is not used.

It comes down to being clear and concise, and treating your perspective buyer like a reasonable adult. If the potential buyer doesn't realize that there's an inherent risk involved with 2-wheeled vehicles and they decide to give you grief about your "ridiculous" stipulations, then that person doesn't belong on 2-wheels (let alone 4).

Also, if you are trying to hide some damage or falsify any repair or maintenance records just to sell it, potentially putting an inexperienced rider in harms way; there's a special place in hell for you which I like to imagine looks like a few feet in front of my truck as I commute to work on really foul weather days on the pot-hole ridiculed stretch of 64 that is the scourge of Virginia. I imagine it to be cold, miserable and painful; so be honest.

Suddenly I feel like I'm going to be holding onto the Blur a little longer than I planned. I won't tell my wife if you folks won't.

Anachronism · Post by **Anachronism** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:55 am

My plan to handle this when I sell my Buddy next month is pretty simple.

1. Let them ride it, as long as I like the way they look.

2. Follow them with my scooter that can easily outrun the one I am selling.

3. The instant they do something I don't like, stop them, get them off the bike, bawl them out, and make them walk home.

Howardr · Post by **Howardr** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:17 am

iwabj wrote:
Howardr wrote:You might be able to avoid some of all this hassle by trying to sell within your network of friends, co-workers, facebook peeps etc. Then , most of those questions listed above will be moot.

Plus, I would look at the trade-in option as well. Hopefully the market is better where you're at, but here in AZ, you can't give away used scooters.

Howard
So thats what you were trying to accomplish in that pond you were riding through... figure you'd drown it and collect.

Dang it! My evil plan has been discovered.

rickko · Post by **rickko** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:47 am

No rides.

If buyer wants to know what it handles like have them find someone else who'll let them ride theirs. Or have them do a test drive at a dealership.

You could always put the buyer on the back and take him/her for a spin, but no unaccompanied rides.

But if you must, take his Driver's License (he won't screw around and risk getting stopped) and hold onto his keys from whatever vehicle he used to come see your scooter. Then tell him, if the scooter comes back damaged he'll get his keys and DL when he's paid for the repairs. Or, you could follow him in his car. If he crashes, run over him and keep his car.

You risk a lot handing your scooter over to a stranger. Or friend for that matter.

Good luck!

..rickko..

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:27 pm

I just saw a burgman on craigslist that was reduced in price cause the guy let one of his friends (who he said had ridden scooters before) test ride it and he gunned the throttle and lost control, scratches everywhere!

Post by **Lostmycage** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:48 pm

Get a quote from your dealer for all the tupperware. Require that as a deposit.

squash1978 · Post by **squash1978** » Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:11 pm

Sell it on e-bay. No haggling, no test rides, no hassle.

I sold my Jeep on e-bay a few years back and actually got more for it than I originally paid. I took a bunch of pictures, wrote an honest description of it's condition, and put it up for a 7 day auction. It was a pretty hassle free way to sell a vehicle. The most work I had to do was answer some questions for bidders and then do the title transfer to the new owner.

LuvMyScoot · Post by **LuvMyScoot** » Sat Mar 13, 2010 3:38 am

I bought my Buddy used from someone on Craigslist. I met her halfway (she rode the scoot, I drove with my sister) at a state park. I was a bit nervous about taking someone elses scoot for a test ride since the only scoot I'd had was a 50cc; the seller actually insisted on it. My reluctance to ride a scoot I didn't own made her feel better about me; her reluctance to sell me a scoot I hadn't ridden made me feel better about her. So what is it I'm trying to say here? I don't think there are any hard and fast rules for selling a used scoot. I think you have to size the person up when they come to look at it and adapt your rules accordingly. I'd treat an 18 year old guy with no 2 wheel experience differently than I would a 35 year old woman who has owned scoots before.

Modern Buddy

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