Maybe all prima pipe welds fail
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Maybe all prima pipe welds fail
I had such big plans this weekend. Over 400 miles of rustic California desert and mountain roads. I got 140 of them down and was scooting Palm Springs when I noticed the most annoying tinny sound. I thought it was the Blackjack stock pipe following. It was suggested I had a pebble in the pipe. Well, it didn't rattle at idle nor on the center stand. I went to bed wondering what was wrong. In the morning I woke up and search here. Read something about a license plate screw, so I ran down to my scoot hoping beyond hope it was that.
Nope, the bottom bracket of the pipe is cracked and while neither has totally broken through. It's just cracked and makes the worst noise when I'm riding.
So disappointing It is 9mos old
I didn't get to finish my trip. The roads were too rough to risk it. The guys I'm with got some wire and tied it to the scoot. I made it the 140 miles home so that's good. I just don't know what to do next.
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- rsrider
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First, see if this is a warranty issue. Contact the sellers and tell them the situation. If you don't get a replacement, don't sweat it. Stainless can be welded, no problem. Just need find a shop that does it. I had the pipe on my Daytona 650 welded, and it was fine.
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- Lostmycage
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I've been wondering for a while why they didn't just make a strap hanger instead of the {poorly} welded on brackets. With the thick iron of the stock anchor/exhaust, having the brackets makes perfect sense. The Prima is a different story. I really think it'd be a lot cleaner if they did use a strap, they could even offer color options for the straps to match the stock paint codes, or go with a Stainless steel like I did for my Prima exhaust on the Blur.
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I've wondered that myself. I've also seriously thought about grinding off the brackets and MAKING it a strap pipe.Lostmycage wrote:I've been wondering for a while why they didn't just make a strap hanger instead of the {poorly} welded on brackets. With the thick iron of the stock anchor/exhaust, having the brackets makes perfect sense. The Prima is a different story. I really think it'd be a lot cleaner if they did use a strap, they could even offer color options for the straps to match the stock paint codes, or go with a Stainless steel like I did for my Prima exhaust on the Blur.
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You can find stainless steel straps made for the coffee-can "mufflers" for street cars pretty cheap and just cut and trim them down. That's what I did. I think I found one in the clearance bin for a couple bucks. Sandwiching the muffler between two straps would make it take vibrations a little easier as well (which is likely the main cause for the Prima weld failures. The SS straping is also wide enough to cover the areas where you would have ground off the welds on the brackets.Kaos wrote: I've wondered that myself. I've also seriously thought about grinding off the brackets and MAKING it a strap pipe.
Given the ammount of miles you put on yours, I'd maybe start looking around for one of those straps for the next time it breaks, or for the next Prima pipe you get, lol.
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Heh, not a bad idea. Though my current welds are REALLY heavy duty I think there's more weld material than original bracket nowLostmycage wrote:You can find stainless steel straps made for the coffee-can "mufflers" for street cars pretty cheap and just cut and trim them down. That's what I did. I think I found one in the clearance bin for a couple bucks. Sandwiching the muffler between two straps would make it take vibrations a little easier as well (which is likely the main cause for the Prima weld failures. The SS straping is also wide enough to cover the areas where you would have ground off the welds on the brackets.Kaos wrote: I've wondered that myself. I've also seriously thought about grinding off the brackets and MAKING it a strap pipe.
Given the ammount of miles you put on yours, I'd maybe start looking around for one of those straps for the next time it breaks, or for the next Prima pipe you get, lol.
- toycoma98
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The header flange is different from stock. I used a GY6 exhaust gasket and some high heat silicone permatex. Bracket was modified, lower mount was bent and beaten to make it straighter. I drilled a hole on the stock exhaust bracket and bolted it on.BuddyLicious wrote:toycoma98,
What all was involved when putting on your GY6 exhaust,did you have to modify and adjust your mixture etc? Looks sick! Thanks.
I'm using a 105 (stock was 92) jet and removed that wall/tube in the airbox.
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Can you describe HOW the flange is different?toycoma98 wrote:The header flange is different from stock. I used a GY6 exhaust gasket and some high heat silicone permatex. Bracket was modified, lower mount was bent and beaten to make it straighter. I drilled a hole on the stock exhaust bracket and bolted it on.BuddyLicious wrote:toycoma98,
What all was involved when putting on your GY6 exhaust,did you have to modify and adjust your mixture etc? Looks sick! Thanks.
I'm using a 105 (stock was 92) jet and removed that wall/tube in the airbox.
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- toycoma98
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GY6 flange doesn't use the ring type gasket. Its just flat, so i used a GY6 type flat gasket and some Permatex. Also used washers allong with the stock nuts.Kaos wrote:Can you describe HOW the flange is different?toycoma98 wrote:The header flange is different from stock. I used a GY6 exhaust gasket and some high heat silicone permatex. Bracket was modified, lower mount was bent and beaten to make it straighter. I drilled a hole on the stock exhaust bracket and bolted it on.BuddyLicious wrote:toycoma98,
What all was involved when putting on your GY6 exhaust,did you have to modify and adjust your mixture etc? Looks sick! Thanks.
I'm using a 105 (stock was 92) jet and removed that wall/tube in the airbox.
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Ahh, ok. So the flange FITS fine, just uses the other style gasket. The Prima actually uses a flat gasket as well.toycoma98 wrote:GY6 flange doesn't use the ring type gasket. Its just flat, so i used a GY6 type flat gasket and some Permatex. Also used washers allong with the stock nuts.Kaos wrote:Can you describe HOW the flange is different?toycoma98 wrote: The header flange is different from stock. I used a GY6 exhaust gasket and some high heat silicone permatex. Bracket was modified, lower mount was bent and beaten to make it straighter. I drilled a hole on the stock exhaust bracket and bolted it on.
I'm using a 105 (stock was 92) jet and removed that wall/tube in the airbox.
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If I'm not mistaken I have seen more than my fair share of failed Prima pipes.The obvious question of course is,is Prima doing something like a re-designed pipe? A recall? If they have been replacing bad ones how are they making it financially? Surely I'm missing something here or missed a whole thread(s) of answers.What say you? Thanks.
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- Kaos
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Yes many have failed. I'm on my 4th. And its been re-welded twice. They *HAVE* changed the bracket design a few months ago, and it LOOKS like it would be stronger. I've not yet seen one in person though.BuddyLicious wrote:If I'm not mistaken I have seen more than my fair share of failed Prima pipes.The obvious question of course is,is Prima doing something like a re-designed pipe? A recall? If they have been replacing bad ones how are they making it financially? Surely I'm missing something here or missed a whole thread(s) of answers.What say you? Thanks.
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Occasionally a company will issue a voluntary recall for a product with a flaw or defect. But a "recall" usually implies that there's a serious safety issue involved or that the product us in violation of some federal regulation.
In this kind of instance, especially if there's an improved version available, I suggest marching it back to the dealer ASAP. If they can't fix it satisfactorily, ask for one of the new ones as a replacement.
In this kind of instance, especially if there's an improved version available, I suggest marching it back to the dealer ASAP. If they can't fix it satisfactorily, ask for one of the new ones as a replacement.
Eric // LA Scooter Meetup Group // Stella 4T // Vespa LX // Vespa LXS // Honda Helix // some, uh, projects…
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a while back i was braggin that iv had my prima pipe on for about 16k and no problems... well on my ride from chicago to madison and back yesterday herd a hissing sound. took a look and wouldnt you know it 3 out of the 4 welds are cracked off.
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I think you guys are on the right track with the strap hanger. Wonder if you used a long bolt with a rubber bushing in the middle. Sandwiched between the mounting bracket and the new strap. It would allow for the vibration that seems to be tearing the welds. If it was a weight or proper placement issue for the strap. You could Fab up a small extension for the stock bracket. (Just brainstorming, I don't even have one).
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And when was the fix supposedly made effective? I have a friend that got a Prima for her Vespa for Christmas, she got to take it out ONCE this spring and it failed and she had her husband put the stock one back on. She is not interested in trying again, either.
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I have thought about this, assuming I ever get my Buddy back up and running again. My son will be getting his license next spring and he is interested in my Buddy, I think a Buddy would be a great starter vehicle for him. I think if it sounded fabulous he would like it even better. But, the last thing I need to do is add something else that will fail, I can't even keep it running at 99.9% stock.
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-v
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I have thought about this, assuming I ever get my Buddy back up and running again. My son will be getting his license next spring and he is interested in my Buddy, I think a Buddy would be a great starter vehicle for him. I think if it sounded fabulous he would like it even better. But, the last thing I need to do is add something else that will fail, I can't even keep it running at 99.9% stock.
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-v
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The only pipe that I KNOW got changed was the Buddy one. I've seen it, its different. I have no idea about the Vespa pipe.Vic wrote:And when was the fix supposedly made effective? I have a friend that got a Prima for her Vespa for Christmas, she got to take it out ONCE this spring and it failed and she had her husband put the stock one back on. She is not interested in trying again, either.
.
I have thought about this, assuming I ever get my Buddy back up and running again. My son will be getting his license next spring and he is interested in my Buddy, I think a Buddy would be a great starter vehicle for him. I think if it sounded fabulous he would like it even better. But, the last thing I need to do is add something else that will fail, I can't even keep it running at 99.9% stock.
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-v
Take a look at the bracket here <img src="http://www.scooterworks.com/images/Prod ... d/PE31.jpg">
They've made it more of a T shape, vs the V shaped bracket before. This provides more surface to weld to the can, so it SHOULD be stronger. Never personally tried it though. I will say when I re-welded my Prima, thats exactly how I did it and its not broken again.
- toycoma98
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I know this is an old thread. The upper bracket broke off my Prima, so...
I have an idea, i have energy suspension polyurethane red bushings from an old set of automotive shocks. I was thinking of using that instead of the metal spacers that the Prima exhaust comes with. I can put washers to make it spaced right and the bushing will absorb the vibrations instead of the weld seams. The lower bracket is still on so i can only put it on that.
What do you guys think?
I have an idea, i have energy suspension polyurethane red bushings from an old set of automotive shocks. I was thinking of using that instead of the metal spacers that the Prima exhaust comes with. I can put washers to make it spaced right and the bushing will absorb the vibrations instead of the weld seams. The lower bracket is still on so i can only put it on that.
What do you guys think?
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- Kaos
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The same way I got a Vespa GTS250ie engine into my Buddy, lots of cutting and weldingHowHH wrote:Welds currently holding on the Prima pipe. I did, however, pick up a back-up pipe during the Scooterworks holiday sales (for when the old pipe is no longer so shiney), so I guess I'm covered if a weld goes.
Now, I would like to know how you got a Buddy motor into a Vespa frame?
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I went NCY
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Kaos wrote:I've heard there's not performance gain with that pipe though, how'd it work out for you?BuddyRaton wrote:I went NCY
I went with the 161 kit, stock head, air box mod, dr pulley with 11 gram and upsized the carb. I am VERY pleased with the results. I got what I was looking for...a good increase in power over pretty much the full range.
I never expect much performance gain from a 4T exhaust swap except to let it breath a little better. I'm used to the 2T expansion chambers where when you hit the sweet spot its like the afterburners kicking in!
Oh yeah...starting a custom 2T build...
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'06 Cream Buddy 125, 11 Blur 220, 13 BMW C 650 GT, 68 Vespa SS180, 64 Vespa GS MK II, 65 Lambretta TV 175, 67 Vespa GT, 64 Vespa 150 VBB 64 Vespa GL
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Nice...throaty but not obnoxious. Thats about the best I can describe it.easy wrote:how does the ncy pipe sound
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'06 Cream Buddy 125, 11 Blur 220, 13 BMW C 650 GT, 68 Vespa SS180, 64 Vespa GS MK II, 65 Lambretta TV 175, 67 Vespa GT, 64 Vespa 150 VBB 64 Vespa GL
www.teamscootertrash.com
'06 Cream Buddy 125, 11 Blur 220, 13 BMW C 650 GT, 68 Vespa SS180, 64 Vespa GS MK II, 65 Lambretta TV 175, 67 Vespa GT, 64 Vespa 150 VBB 64 Vespa GL
- toycoma98
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So i replaced the spacer (lower) for the Prima exhaust with a automotive shock absorber bushing. I used the bushing and a washer, its a perfect fit. I hope the Prima bracket mounts wont break anymore.
A rubber bushing is always better than a metal spacer. If you can find a bushing, replace the spacer with it before the bracket breaks.
A rubber bushing is always better than a metal spacer. If you can find a bushing, replace the spacer with it before the bracket breaks.
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