Buddy 50cc Upgrade

[glamourgirrrl]

Got the 09 Buddy 50cc, it is derestricted. I've been riding it and having a great time. My boyfriend took it out for a spin and now wants to "scooter" with me. He is 6'5 inches and about 290. Would the Prima stage 2 kit be a good upgrade for the scooter? We live in a fairly flat area and he just wants more speed. I don't want to go crazy on upgrades and want the best bang for my buck. I've read as many threads on this subject as possible and I just keep getting confused by all the different arguments. Basically I want a breakdown on what are the best parts/upgrades for the money. Right now the scooter goes about 40 "buddy miles per hour" with him on it. Keep in mind I don't have to pay for labor and my dad is a mechanic so he can do just about any installation.

[bigbropgo]

You crack me up.

[glamourgirrrl]

I know I have scooter sickness! I drove all the way to Sedona today to pick up scooter parts. My pink one is fianlly done though. No more additions to it. And I've been riding the heck out of the green one.

[dawg onit]

Smaller boyfriend would be cheapest!

[rsrider]

Your upgrade needs to be to a 125cc.

[jasondavis48108]

I know I have scooter sickness! I drove all the way to Sedona today to pick up scooter parts. My pink one is fianlly done though. No more additions to it. And I've been riding the heck out of the green one.

There is no done with scooters. My guess is that you'll get the gtreen one all kitted out and then you'll decide the pink one needs to be able to keep up with the green one. Then since your boyfriend is larger the pink one will be faster and you'll do more to the green one, the cycle continues until your both riding Burgman 650s or GTS 300s or some such thing The 50s are a hell of a lot of fun to play with though

[glamourgirrrl]

Smaller boyfriend is not an option, although it would be cheapest. I agree that the 125 makes the most sense, but I got the 50cc so cheap that a few hundred bucks on upgrades wouldn't be too bad. If he could get it up to a real 40-45mph I'd be happy.

[juice]

Get your dad to look at this video and make sure you are fully de-restricted http://vimeo.com/2575002 . I weigh over 200 lb and I have gotten my stock buddy 50 up past 50 buddy mph . Good luck .

[TVB]

I've been content with derestriction myself, so I can't make recommendations based on my own experience. But logically, the next mod would be the Prima stage 1 kit. It's a less "invasive" procedure, and while by this time you've almost certainly exceeded the speed threshold for it being legally considered a "moped" in your state, replacing just the pipe would maintain the plausible deniability of it still being a 50cc scooter if you wanted to try getting away with that. (It's pretty hard to claim that you innocently thought it was still a "moped" after you've converted it to a 70cc engine.) You could always go back and swap the cylinders later if that fails to get it up to the desired speed.

A smaller boyfriend is worth considering, though. I used to have a 5'6" model (pre-scooter), and he was quite nice. Just saying.

[jasondavis48108]

(It's pretty hard to claim that you innocently thought it was still a "moped" after you've converted it to a 70cc engine.) You could always go back and swap the cylinders later if that fails to get it up to the desired speed.

yeah, I personally wouldn't keep a 70 registered as 50 but I've got seriously back luck with tickets. I had my 50 registered as a motrocycle so it wouldn't be hard to install a 70cc kit and just inform my insurance company that I've increased the enigine size.

You can get performance 50cc kits though I'm not sure jow much more speed your going to get out of them and they certainly won't last as long as a good cast iron cyliner will. Mallosi makes an MHR 50cc kit that I've thought about playing with

[glamourgirrrl]

Talked to my pops and he thinks the Prima stage 1 is the best place to start. The scooter has about 500 miles on it. (100 are mine!!) and he says add the pipe and clutch spring and wait for the stock cylinder to blow. Then get the 70cc kit. So I think that's where I'm going to start. That also gives me some time to sell some stuff on Ebay for more money for scooter stuff!! To think I used to get such joy out of a new dress and some great shoes, now all i think about is scooters! Also I'm putting a Pink leopard seat cover on it and have some Hello Kitty stickers coming, so we'll see if the big guy is willing to rock it Hello Kitty style!

[Kaos]

Talked to my pops and he thinks the Prima stage 1 is the best place to start. The scooter has about 500 miles on it. (100 are mine!!) and he says add the pipe and clutch spring and wait for the stock cylinder to blow. Then get the 70cc kit. So I think that's where I'm going to start. That also gives me some time to sell some stuff on Ebay for more money for scooter stuff!! To think I used to get such joy out of a new dress and some great shoes, now all i think about is scooters! Also I'm putting a Pink leopard seat cover on it and have some Hello Kitty stickers coming, so we'll see if the big guy is willing to rock it Hello Kitty style!

Be aware you'll get quite a few miles in before you need to replace the top end. So if you're impatient, "wait for the stock cylinder to blow" will likely be a couple of years!

[gearhead]

drop a 125cc engine in there!

[Dooglas]

drop a 125cc engine in there!

The 125 engine does not "drop in" the 50 body. Cheaper and simpler to buy a used 125/150 and sell one of the 50s if that were the intended upgrade. (I realize that you know this, just posting for the benefit of less experienced riders)

[gearhead]

i hear the mounts for the 125 are already on the buddy 50cc

[Kaos]

drop a 125cc engine in there!

The 125 engine does not "drop in" the 50 body. Cheaper and simpler to buy a used 125/150 and sell one of the 50s if that is the intended upgrade.

It basically does. The mounts for the 125/150 are in the frame on the 50cc. The real catching point is that you'll need more than JUST the engine. If you install the 125/150 engine, the front forks and brakes become unsafe, as they're not designed to cope with the extra speed and stopping power needed for the bigger engine.

[Dooglas]

It basically does. The mounts for the 125/150 are in the frame on the 50cc. The real catching point is that you'll need more than JUST the engine. If you install the 125/150 engine, the front forks and brakes become unsafe, as they're not designed to cope with the extra speed and stopping power needed for the bigger engine.

Indeed. I basically stand by what I said. It would be cheaper and simpler to buy a used 125/150 and sell the 50 if that is the intended upgrade. Now, if somebody gave you a new 125 engine, you were mechanically handy, had a well equipped shop and were looking for a new project - well, okay. That doesn't describe your average Buddy rider however.

[jfrost2]

Buying a brand new 125cc will be much cheaper, or even cheaper, a used one. The quality will be much more reliable than modding the heck out of the 50cc and replacing performance parts every so often because how fast they can wear.

[bpatrick5]

You have three scooters now? The pink one, the green one and the 50? My buddy at work went from no scooters to three in about 4 short months. My GF and I went from none to to 2 in about 1 month. It's so, so, so addicting. But, I was the same way with SCUBA diving and golf. I must have more and more.

Post some pics, if you can.

[gearhead]

you can get the whole engine and harness from scooterworks for $1200 and they'll probably give you a discount for it. Then you can buy my front end of a buddy from me for $100 and then you can sell your engine and harness to 2t fanatic mwahhaha

[glamourgirrrl]

Just 2 the Green is a 50cc. However, I'm now feeling the need for a Stella too. Then the collection is complete.... (maybe)

[jasondavis48108]

Just 2 the Green is a 50cc. However, I'm now feeling the need for a Stella too. Then the collection is complete.... (maybe)

The collection isn't complete until you die and leave it to your children I just had a conversation with my wife about buying a garage. Don't really care if it comes with a house or not but I definetly need the garage.

[glamourgirrrl]

He rode it today and got it up to (Buddy) 45mph full throttle. I think it must be completely unrestricted to get to that speed.

[TVB]

He rode it today and got it up to (Buddy) 45mph full throttle. I think it must be completely unrestricted to get to that speed.

That matches my experience.

[paikkylee]

Not to contradict your pops or other folks out there, but IMO the 70cc kit with the upgraded carb will get you the most bang for your buck. With the Prima pipe and clutch spring you won't get much of a boost. That's the route I went and didn't see much of a bump until I added the cylinder. Just keep in mind that reliability can be an issue without the upgraded carb.

Hey TVB - if you've been annoyed by my loud green buddy in the neighborhood, I'm looking to downgrade from the Prima pipe to a stock to quiet her down.

[Anachronism]

Be aware you'll get quite a few miles in before you need to replace the top end. So if you're impatient, "wait for the stock cylinder to blow" will likely be a couple of years!

Unless she goes the "I don't need to rejet" route.

[TVB]

Hey TVB - if you've been annoyed by my loud green buddy in the neighborhood, I'm looking to downgrade from the Prima pipe to a stock to quiet her down.

So that's been you! Actually, it's not too loud... at least quieter than when the Moped Army buzzes past.

[Anachronism]

When I was working on my 50, after talking with several folks, I decided to do the 70cc kit before doing the pipe.

The reason is that the 70cc kit gives you power all across the RPM in range, including a LOT more low end torque, to help you get the bike moving. The bike also breathes better on the top end because the ports on the 70CC cylinder are much larger than the stock 50CC ports.

The exhaust port on the stock 50 is halfway filled (it has a half moon shape rather than an oval), probably to boost low end torque at the expense of power everywhere else.

Pipes are GREAT on 2 stroke bikes. However, a lot of what aftermarket pipes do is move power around in the RPM range. The expansion chamber on an exhause pipe for a two stroke is designed so that at certain RPMS, the exhaust has a "supercharging" effect where the exhaust wave in the chamber creates a low pressure bubble that sucks much more fresh air into the cylinder than would normally happen.

The downside is that this effect only happens at certain rpm ranges where the timing of this exhuast pulse lines up with when the cylinder ports are open. The more you tune for this effect, the more power can be had, but it is then found in a narrower, and typically higher, rpm range.

In other words, Pipes will tend to make a 2-stroke engine more "peaky," where it has no power until it revs up to the point where the pipe does its thing, and then BOOM- it is screaming along.

The bigger cylinder kit will give youy more power everywhere, yet still feel like a stock-style bike, where the engine has a smooth powerband.

None of this is to say that a pipe is bad, and I would look seriously at one if the 70cc kit doesn't get you going fast enough, but I would start with the big bore.

[Anachronism]

Some more advice specifically regarding the scooterworks "stage 2" kit:

1. The kit comes with 5 Gram rollers. These are WAY too light, and will have the bike revving to the moon. 7 gram rollers would be much better, but this is a preference thing. Good thing rollers/sliders are cheap. Almost everybody on here that has bought the 5 grams has regretted it, including myself. I don't know what they are thinking including those in the kit.

2. Once you do a 70CC kit and a pipe, you are really pushing the limits of what the stock carburetor can handle. A carburetor that is too small for the engine will make the engine generate more heat and more chances for a engine-grenading lean condition. If you get both a pipe and a cylinder kit, seriously consider purchasing a larger carburetor at the same time!

3. Some people, including my local shop, do not like the Prima cylinder kit. My local shop said he bought two, installed one that failed in 100 miles, and threw the other one out. Now they only stock the Malossi kit, which is about twice as expensive as the Prima. I put 800 miles on my Prima kit with no problems, and I'm not sure that there is really a problem with them, but most consider Malossi the better kit.

[glamourgirrrl]

So the 70cc kit without a pipe is better to start with?

[Anachronism]

So the 70cc kit without a pipe is better to start with?

That would be my recommendation. The pipe will certainly add power, but I think the 70 kit is the better bang for the buck and will keep the bike very well-mannered.

First upgrade (or installed at the same time as the other firsts) is rollers/sliders.

Expect to need to change jetting with either the pipe or cylinder kit, although sometimes the jetting does not need to be changed with a cylinder kit (you need to check jetting very closely, but may get lucky and not need to change it).

[bpatrick5]

I wonder if you or your BF could ride a souped up 50cc before making the investment. Just a thought. If you like the power, you'll have something realistic to shoot for and guarantee no disappointment. If you don't like it, you can avoid the expense (and go right for the Stella....I completely dig hte Stellas).

My fear with upgrading my GF's 50cc is that at it's best, we'll be disappointed. I think our biggest issue is that we have a 150cc that we keep comparing the 50cc to. Our 50cc is bone stock. On a relatively flat Scottsdale road, a windless day and with a 205lb rider, I can get it up to 50 mph and maintain it.

[Anachronism]

I wonder if you or your BF could ride a souped up 50cc before making the investment. Just a thought. If you like the power, you'll have something realistic to shoot for and guarantee no disappointment. If you don't like it, you can avoid the expense (and go right for the Stella....I completely dig hte Stellas).

My fear with upgrading my GF's 50cc is that at it's best, we'll be disappointed. I think our biggest issue is that we have a 150cc that we keep comparing the 50cc to. Our 50cc is bone stock. On a relatively flat Scottsdale road, a windless day and with a 205lb rider, I can get it up to 50 mph and maintain it.

Well, the counter argument is that assuming you are installing the ods yourself, it is pretty cheap to do them.

[bpatrick5]

I think they're relatively cheap if you're doing them yourself. Plus, it'd be a fun project. I wonder what the potential power outcome can be. Will it feel as powerful as a stock 125 or 150? Will it be less of a top speed thing and more of a quickness improvement. I can't wait to hear about the results. Good luck and keep us informed!

[paikkylee]

I second the cylinder kit first approach. I probably wouldn't buy the all together set either. I've got a prima cylinder on my 50 now after blowing out a Malossi cylinder twice. The tech thought it was because of the restricted stock carb paired up with the open Prima. Just not enough air or fuel to keep the piston cool and it blew. The second time also could have been the 2000 RPM spring I tried running with 4.5g weights causing the whole thing to over rev waaaay to high.

The Prima cylinder with the keihin 26mm carb and the NCY manifold will run you togeher about as much as the pipe alone and give you all the benefits Anachronism talked about. See how that works, then try the 1000 RPM spring and some lighter rollers.

I'm no expert, but just giving you my opinion based on my limited experience with both the Stage 1 kit and the 70cc upgrade.

[paikkylee]

Hey TVB - if you've been annoyed by my loud green buddy in the neighborhood, I'm looking to downgrade from the Prima pipe to a stock to quiet her down.

So that's been you! Actually, it's not too loud... at least quieter than when the Moped Army buzzes past.

Yeah, those guys are really loud. I may be at this decibel level for a while. I couldn't get the stock pipe I picked up off a Roughouse to fit my buddy. I'll try again, but just want to ride the thing for a while before I break it again

[Kaos]

I second the cylinder kit first approach. I probably wouldn't buy the all together set either. I've got a prima cylinder on my 50 now after blowing out a Malossi cylinder twice. The tech thought it was because of the restricted stock carb paired up with the open Prima. Just not enough air or fuel to keep the piston cool and it blew. The second time also could have been the 2000 RPM spring I tried running with 4.5g weights causing the whole thing to over rev waaaay to high.

The Prima cylinder with the keihin 26mm carb and the NCY manifold will run you togeher about as much as the pipe alone and give you all the benefits Anachronism talked about. See how that works, then try the 1000 RPM spring and some lighter rollers.

I'm no expert, but just giving you my opinion based on my limited experience with both the Stage 1 kit and the 70cc upgrade.

You're running a 26mm carb on a 50? Thats a really big carb for that motor.

[gearhead]

.... I wonder what the potential power outcome can be. Will it feel as powerful as a stock 125 or 150?...

unless you have all racing stuff like an aluminum single ring piston, reeds, crank, carb, pipe, etc and really good tuning, then you can probably hit the mid 60's

even my friend with a 70cc upgraded 2t zuma has over $1k worth of 2t racing parts and he can go fast but then hits a wall around 55mph. there was only one time he beat me going 70mph and that was when conditions were just right and he was only able to do it that one time.

[paikkylee]

You're running a 26mm carb on a 50? Thats a really big carb for that motor.

I am. It does seem big, but the price was right and the tech folks at Scooterworks said it would work well and it does. Rips off the line and all the way up too. I'm still breaking in the cylinder kit, so haven't pushed it, but 50BMPH is not a problem.

[Kaos]

You're running a 26mm carb on a 50? Thats a really big carb for that motor.

I am. It does seem big, but the price was right and the tech folks at Scooterworks said it would work well and it does. Rips off the line and all the way up too. I'm still breaking in the cylinder kit, so haven't pushed it, but 50BMPH is not a problem.

Nice, that surprises me, I would have expected it to bog a bit.

[paikkylee]

You're running a 26mm carb on a 50? Thats a really big carb for that motor.

I am. It does seem big, but the price was right and the tech folks at Scooterworks said it would work well and it does. Rips off the line and all the way up too. I'm still breaking in the cylinder kit, so haven't pushed it, but 50BMPH is not a problem.

Nice, that surprises me, I would have expected it to bog a bit.

It might WOT, but I haven't gone there yet... or needed to.

[Anachronism]

You're running a 26mm carb on a 50? Thats a really big carb for that motor.

I am. It does seem big, but the price was right and the tech folks at Scooterworks said it would work well and it does. Rips off the line and all the way up too. I'm still breaking in the cylinder kit, so haven't pushed it, but 50BMPH is not a problem.

Nice, that surprises me, I would have expected it to bog a bit.

I think 2 strokes have a pretty decent tolerance for running rich. Sounds like the weights and springs in the setup in question are quite high-rpm oriented as well, which means it probbaly free-revs past the point we would expect it to bog.

[Kaos]

I am. It does seem big, but the price was right and the tech folks at Scooterworks said it would work well and it does. Rips off the line and all the way up too. I'm still breaking in the cylinder kit, so haven't pushed it, but 50BMPH is not a problem.

Nice, that surprises me, I would have expected it to bog a bit.

I think 2 strokes have a pretty decent tolerance for running rich. Sounds like the weights and springs in the setup in question are quite high-rpm oriented as well, which means it probbaly free-revs past the point we would expect it to bog.

Ahh, very good point. I'll bet thats likely exactly whats going on(the rev-past)

[paikkylee]

Nice, that surprises me, I would have expected it to bog a bit.

I think 2 strokes have a pretty decent tolerance for running rich. Sounds like the weights and springs in the setup in question are quite high-rpm oriented as well, which means it probbaly free-revs past the point we would expect it to bog.

Ahh, very good point. I'll bet thats likely exactly whats going on(the rev-past)

It's got the 1000RPM torque spring and 5g rollers that came with the Stage 1 kit, as well as 1500RPM clutch springs, so you might be right.

[glamourgirrrl]

Got the Stella...

So now I've hit my scooter limit.

1 Buddy 125 pink
1 Buddy 50cc Seafoam
1 Stella Black

My boyfriend say's I only have one a$$ so how am I going to ride 3? I've never been happier!

[TVB]

My boyfriend say's I only have one a$$ so how am I going to ride 3?

Only one? Doesn't his belong to you as well? So that's two...

[bpatrick5]

That is sooooo cool. Congratulations!! Can't wait to hear what you think about the Stella. I green with envy.

What's the purple one with flowers on it? Could that be #4?

[glamourgirrrl]

Purple with flowers is my daughters Razor Scooter. It's electric and goes about 10mph. It's super cute.

[gearhead]

congrats on the new purchase! the collection begins!

[paikkylee]

Super sweet. My next upgrade is probably going to be a Stella. I'm crazy jealous, but don't have the garage space (or leeway from the wife) for another just yet.