Thank you Eric

[bluezurich]

For allowing the 2T and 4T Stellas to be kept together in the forum. Family is important.

I say this because over on MV a few...what I might call closed minded individuals are up in arms about the Stella 4T being discussed or ever mentioned in the NSM section.

I just can't see a geared, classically designed all metal body scooter in the build and tooling of a P series/VLX regardless of it's engine being lumped in with TnG's in the Modern section.

[Lovelandstella]

yes! thank you. MV was ridiculous in their response. I love it here.

[Mark2000]

As a soon to be 4T owner I actually think a separate forum would be good. The mechanics of both models are so different it makes sense to not confuse people in help posts by posting in a specific place. Flash CS4, for instance have a separate section on flashkit.com than Flash CS3.

[ericalm]

MB will not be dividing further. It only serves to isolate parts of the forum. Really, I wish we hadn't split off into so many subsections already.

We don't really have the traffic and post count to warrant separate 2T and 4 sections.

The ModernVespa NSM section has become a little baby version of the BBS. I rarely look in there and won't when I start riding the Stella. The NSM forum has had the benefit of giving some of the more vociferous assholes on MV their own little sandbox and keeping them out of the rest of the forums. So… yay for that.

[Lovelandstella]

MB will not be dividing further. It only serves to isolate parts of the forum. Really, I wish we hadn't split off into so many subsections already.

We don't really have the traffic and post count to warrant separate 2T and 4 sections.

The ModernVespa NSM section has become a little baby version of the BBS. I rarely look in there and won't when I start riding the Stella. The NSM forum has had the benefit of giving some of the more vociferous assholes on MV their own little sandbox and keeping them out of the rest of the forums. So… yay for that.

okay then! that explains a lot.

as a Stella 4t (almost) owner, I don't need a seperate Stella 4t forum. just so long as no one threatens to quit the forum simply because I exist, I'm fine. That whole "kiss my valveless a$$" stuff? That's is a cuddly bunny compared to the war zone, whine-fest over there.
I Love it here!
Keep it up everyone, We are great!

[Mark2000]

LOL, I just read this on Modern Vespa:

this is noT the forum for the new 4t stella period.

we here don't work on vales and dont really care to learn how

we dont want to hear about cigarette lighters and gps hook ups

we dont care if your helmet matches the dijon yellow paint

we do 2t's and a 4t is not a 2t

the other side is where the 4t stella belongs and i will remove myself from this site if i start weeding thru 4t talk in the not-so-modern side

I HOPE THE MODERATORS ARE LISTENING AS TO SORT THIS SHITE OUT BEFORE WE ARE INUNDATED WITH TALK ABOUT "WHY MY VALVES ARE MAKING NOISES AND FUEL INJECTION IS ACTING UP"

JIMMYJAMES

That's some passionate stuff!

[bluezurich]

I only asked a simple question ...but many folks also came out in support of new Stella owners there as well. He also came around and half apologized for his outburst, something I did here a while back when one of my posts was misconstrued, it happens. I just was glad that MB was set up in a way to keep the Stella family together.

[BuddyRaton]

The MV NSM may not be the best place to ask questions regarding the new 2T Stella. It is generally a vintage Vespa two stroke forum. Sorry but a 2010 Stella 4T is not vintage and...well..it is not a Vespa

Statements such as

"I find it incredible with the knowledge we have now about emissions and our planets fragility that so many people are clinging to their 2t's precious spewing like an NRA members death grip on the barrel of their guns"

To which I made my valveless comment...does not do much to endear one to the vintage community.

It does get old constantly listening to comments regarding how 2T riders are killing the planet, how our scooters stink, why do they sound so funny.

I know those waiting for their 4T Stellas are excited...I fully understand that..but not everybody is that interested in them.

I don't agree that "The ModernVespa NSM section has become a little baby version of the BBS" Of course there are some "characters" there as there are on any forum, but in general it is an excellent source of information and help for VINTAGE Vespa owners.

Why don't we all fuel up and go ride!

I hope you guys and gals take delivery soon so we can start getting some ride reports!

[Anachronism]

As a soon to be 4T owner I actually think a separate forum would be good. The mechanics of both models are so different it makes sense to not confuse people in help posts by posting in a specific place. Flash CS4, for instance have a separate section on flashkit.com than Flash CS3.

Half the bike is the same, and because the models are not sold concurrently, I think it is pretty easy to differentiate.

Here is some help. If somebody is talking about the following, they are talking about a 4 stroke:

1. Valves
2. Changing motor oil
3. Timing chains
4.Putting on a pipe and not making power
5. Tubular rear chassis
6. 2 stroke envy

ok, just to be clear, this is a joke.

[dwayneed]

This forum was void of the above talk, until you brought it here. I for one wouldn't want poor forum conduct elsewhere to leak into this one. Let it go.

[Roose Hurro]

"I find it incredible with the knowledge we have now about emissions and our planets fragility that so many people are clinging to their 2t's precious spewing like an NRA members death grip on the barrel of their guns"

NRA members don't grip their guns by the barrels...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Mark2000]

"I find it incredible with the knowledge we have now about emissions and our planets fragility that so many people are clinging to their 2t's precious spewing like an NRA members death grip on the barrel of their guns"

NRA members don't grip their guns by the barrels...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

No, they just stroke the barrel lovingly like it was their... oh, this is a family forum. I digress...

As for the emissions argument, I have heard it said that recycling old 2 strokes that are here is as good or better than the pollution caused by making new vehicles and shipping them across oceans.

My response is, find a way to convert the old 2 strokes to 4 stroke. Best of both worlds and truly the cleanest solution. I'm sure its possible if someone wasn't so attached to the 2T mythos that they put some thought into it.

[Lovelandstella]

...Why don't we all fuel up and go ride!

I hope you guys and gals take delivery soon so we can start getting some ride reports!

AMEN! (and I'm not even religious!)

[Lovelandstella]

...As for the emissions argument..

I understand that we are not there yet.
but before we get any closer-

lets remember that this topic was to thank eric and all the MB moderators for, well, doing their job well. their Volunteer job well. for being "on the ball"

you can argue those points all day long if you want to - some people for a lifetime...
but the real issue with "that" was that MV really showed their true colors with their moderators. maybe they were all sick that day or not paying attention or worse, thought it was funny to practically pit everyone against each other, but all they had to do was move the thread to a different forum.
while the point was quite eccentric- it was a valid point and sure warranted a quick move by a moderator, I feel. There was no counter argument as strong
MB Moderators, am I incorrect? is it a 4 hour long process to move a incorrectly placed post? it's gotta be the easiest thing you can do - right?

I think the purposefull "leaving of that topic there" is what empowered both sides.

You don't set a torch next to a can of gasoline- let alone putting a torch IN a can of gasoline.
(for our British MB'ers: please substitute "gasoline" with "petrol", and "torch" with "stick on fire")

anyway thanks for being thoughtful and proactive (Stella Discussion: The original Genuine scooter and its 4-stroke offspring) and firm.

MB will not be dividing further. It only serves to isolate parts of the forum. Really, I wish we hadn't split off into so many subsections already.
We don't really have the traffic and post count to warrant separate 2T and 4 sections...

seriously, where was MV moderators with talk like that?

I'm sorry I did not mean to dog MV moderators with this post
- I just mean that, in comparison, I really felel we have it good here and that its thanks to Eric And Polinarchy (sp? sorry!) and all the MB Moderators. and we should thank them.

Thanks!

[Lovelandstella]

This forum was void of the above talk, until you brought it here. I for one wouldn't want poor forum conduct elsewhere to leak into this one. Let it go.

to quote Bluezurich:
"remember these scooters come from the land of meditation"
I agree- lets all scoot!
[now if I could just find mine...]

[Anachronism]

My response is, find a way to convert the old 2 strokes to 4 stroke. Best of both worlds and truly the cleanest solution. I'm sure its possible if someone wasn't so attached to the 2T mythos that they put some thought into it.

Or recognize that in terms of actual impact, 2 stroke scooter pollution is 3-4000 places down on the list of contributors to either CO2 or CO/NOX pollution.

I would be more willing to care about the pollution my scooter causes, and the pollution by the other drop in the bucket of 2t scooter riders if meaningful changes were made to even half of the polluters further up the list.

Even in the two stroke world, scooters with their 150-200 cc engines, and the maybe 100,000ish two stroke scooters out there regularly ridden are nothing. Go take a look at the millions of 2 stroke outboards out there, with engines 10/20 times as large as what we are running.

[bluezurich]

Geez all I wanted to do was thank Eric and look what gets dredged up

[Mark2000]

I would be more willing to care about the pollution my scooter causes, and the pollution by the other drop in the bucket of 2t scooter riders if meaningful changes were made to even half of the polluters further up the list.

I never bought into a two wrongs make a right fallacy which is what you are presenting here. You're doing wrong, but not as wrong as the other guy so you are ok. That's silly. Either you want to ride the cleanest vehicle you possibly can or you don't. The strengths and weaknesses of 2T vs 4T are irrelevant.

And in the end the person effected by 2T pollution is you, the rider, who is constantly inhaling it. Yes, there are lots of other things in the air that will harm you, but this is something extra and far worse. It's like smoking a pack a day but without the benefits of nicotine euphoria. 2T smell? 2T burning oil pollution going straight into your lungs.

[BuddyRaton]

.
lets remember that this topic was to thank eric and all the MB moderators for, well, doing their job well. their Volunteer job well. for being "on the ball"[/size]

Geez all I wanted to do was thank Eric and look what gets dredged up

Yes thanks eric for a great forum.

..but lets be honest...this thread was started to slam fellow scooterists over on the MV NSM over a post that had nothing to do with a vintage OR Vespa scooter.

That thread and this one smell of the "T" word.

I find it a bit distressing for someone to try to play sister forums against each other.

http://www.modernvespa.com/forum/topic66998

Geez what a shitstorm I started by asking a simple question.
And I thought ModernBuddy was the sensitive bunch.

I will be keeping my snack for myself!

[Anachronism]

I never bought into a two wrongs make a right fallacy which is what you are presenting here. You're doing wrong, but not as wrong as the other guy so you are ok. That's silly. Either you want to ride the cleanest vehicle you possibly can or you don't. The strengths and weaknesses of 2T vs 4T are irrelevant.

You are right, I don't. I also have no problems with peeing in the ocean when I swim in it. There are FAR better things I and everyone else can do to help the environment than worrying about my individual pee in the ocean or the very small subset of American 2t scooter riders.

And in the end the person effected by 2T pollution is you, the rider, who is constantly inhaling it. Yes, there are lots of other things in the air that will harm you, but this is something extra and far worse. It's like smoking a pack a day but without the benefits of nicotine euphoria. 2T smell? 2T burning oil pollution going straight into your lungs.

I'm not exactly taking hits from the tailpipe, and telling me I'm smoking a pack a day without a shred of evidence is really quite a contention. I don't smell my own scooter's exhaust when riding. I do smell the exhaust from every other vehicle in front of me, which seems to be the same as every other rider out there.

You seem to have this pretty deep seated conviction that running a 2T is just flat out wrong. Why is this, exactly?

[Lovelandstella]

...

And in the end the person effected by 2T pollution is you, the rider, who is constantly inhaling it. Yes, there are lots of other things in the air that will harm you, but this is something extra and far worse. It's like smoking a pack a day but without the benefits of nicotine euphoria. 2T smell? 2T burning oil pollution going straight into your lungs.

I'm not exactly taking hits from the tailpipe, and telling me I'm smoking a pack a day without a shred of evidence is really quite a contention. I don't smell my own scooter's exhaust when riding. I do smell the exhaust from every other vehicle in front of me, which seems to be the same as every other rider out there.

You seem to have this pretty deep seated conviction that running a 2T is just flat out wrong. Why is this, exactly?

okay then, let's try THIS Please enjoy the arena I have constructed for you both and for all of us.
Have at it! (politely)
(please continue this conversation there- it'll be recieved better. these are valid questions, they are just slighly misplaced.)

I'd hate for a topic about "thanking our moderators" turn into an "argument"- what does that say about us?

I'm not your boss, and I'm not a moderator so you certainly don't have to, but... please?

[bluezurich]

I was right, too sensitive and thin skinned. I'll stick to stellaspeed.com, be my guess and stalk me to CnP my posts for your amusement.

later

[jmazza]

On behalf of the mods, you're welcome. We think we're pretty awesome, too.

I'm not really aware of the stuff going on at MV, but the tone of the OP was a bit inflammatory considering we share more than a few members. And, as such, it has brought some of those bad feelings over here.

Enjoy your rides. Group hug.

[polianarchy]

I was right, too sensitive and thin skinned. I'll stick to stellaspeed.com, be my guess and stalk me to CnP my posts for your amusement.

later

Is that a threat or a promise? *fingers crossed*