New Buddy Battery

TnShrubber · Post by **TnShrubber** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:52 pm

So, as some of you know I got a *new* scooter about 2 weeks ago. I say *new* because it was a demo version that had under 200 miles on the bike when I bought it. I noticed the first time I was at the shop, the scooter had the floormat pulled off with the battery exposed...the salesman told me he was showing a previous customer the battery.

Anyways, that was the exact Buddy I bought a couple of days later. I had no trouble with it for a week or so, then I left the key in the 'on' position overnight. Needless to say, the battery was dead. I called the shop and they told me to drive it around for 45 minutes or so. Four hours worth of driving later and the battery is still dead...no ignition switch, no blinkers (!), and no horn.

Was the shopkeeper correct in saying the battery would recharge itself after riding? Will a battery tender recharge my battery? If so, which one should I get? I have a 2010 Buddy International. I really need to get my battery recharged because I take my Drivers License test in less than 2 weeks. I'm surely not going to pass without blinkers or a horn!

Thanks for your help!

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:09 pm

I'd try a Battry Tender jr battery charger. If that doesn't work you probably need a new battery. They arn't too expensive so I wouldn't worry too much

TnShrubber · Post by **TnShrubber** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:51 pm

Is there a reason why the Battery Tender Jr. is better than the regular one other than costs? Scooterworks is out of stock, but Amazon has the Juniors for $27 & the 'Seniors' for $46.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 9:28 pm

Actually there are several brands of small electronically controlled maintenance chargers that work just fine. The one thing to know is that the 12V outlet inside the leg shield of the Buddy has a 1A fuse. This is the handiest place to hook up a charger and most (including the BT jr) come with a so-called cigarette lighter adaper. To avoid blowing the fuse, the tender needs to have a low range output of .75 or 1A. Long winded way of saying this is one case where bigger is not necessarily better.

Post by **jmazza** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:03 pm

The recharging that is done while riding is pretty minimal. The stator just doesn't produce that much extra juice for charging. So, while true for a car, I don't think that riding around is really going to get the job done.

Get a battery tender and, assuming the battery isn't actually dead (as in at the end of its life and beyond recharging), that should get it back to normal!

This is the one you want. Search around, they are often on sale somewhere.

And good luck on your test!

patdog264 · Post by **patdog264** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:24 pm

This sounds like my case about a month ago you are on the right track, buy a charger and for back up buy a battery too.

cheez37 · Post by **cheez37** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:51 pm

patdog264 wrote:This sounds like my case about a month ago you are on the right track, buy a charger and for back up buy a battery too.

What do you need the extra battery? It is just an added expense. If you hook-up to a battery tender in between rides, you won't have any battery issues,

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:43 am

Dooglas wrote:The one thing to know is that the 12V outlet inside the leg shield of the Buddy has a 1A fuse. This is the handiest place to hook up a charger and most (including the BT jr) come with a so-called cigarette lighter adaper.

I STILL can't find that outlet!

Perkussion · Post by **Perkussion** » Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:04 am

Yes, but it is that beautiful cream color...

rsrider · Post by **rsrider** » Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:22 am

Wal-Mart has a cheap charger for MC's that works fine. Battery Tenders are good, but the other brands will work as well. And yeah, driving it around isn't going to do much, so you need to put it on a charger until it gets a full charge, then you should be fine.

Hwarang · Post by **Hwarang** » Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:46 am

/second vote for battery tender jr.

Post by **illnoise** » Tue Jun 29, 2010 3:28 am

Older Buddys don't have a power outlet.

Don't buy a backup battery if you don't need it (well, it's not a bad idea, but don't add the solution until you're going to use it) It doesn't make sense to keep two batteries charged.

After a while, the battery will lose its charge and won't take a charge, so you'll need a new one. That may be your case, but it's certainly worth buying a charger and trying to charge it first. Riding will charge it, but you'd need to ride a good 1/2 hour to an hour to charge it fully. The starter will drain your battery fast, I usually try to kickstart if I'm running a bunch of short hops on errands or whatever. Most of the battery power goes to electric-starting, just 3-4 starts can drain your battery if you don't ride long enough to charge the battery in between.

The Batter Tender "Jr." has a lower amp rating, IIRC, that will charge your battery more slowly, which as I understand it is better for a longer battery life. "Tender" is a brand name, for a trickle charger that will turn itself on and off as needed, so it won't overcharge the battery. It's "tending" it, not charging it. There are, of course, other brands that work fine, but be sure it has the same features.

The other possibility is that your stator isn't charging the battery properly, but that's far less likely than these other scenarios. Try charging first. If that doesn't work, try a new fully-charged battery, if the new battery won't hold the charge during long rides, then MAYBE suspect the stator or look for bad wiring or shorts.

NEVER RUN A SCOOTER WITHOUT A BATTERY. running with a dead battery is fine, just never take it out and start the bike, you will fry expensive stuff, sooner or later. Five or six people will reply saying "I took out my battery and my scooter runs fine." Go ahead and listen to them and see how it works out for you. : )

Bb.

juice · Post by **juice** » Tue Jun 29, 2010 3:58 am

Sears has a die hard charger/maintainer ($25.99) and walmart has a schumacher ($20.99) . Both have automatic float mode to prevent overcharging and quick hook ups that attach permanently to the battery as well as alligator clips . Good luck .

JettaKnight · Post by **JettaKnight** » Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:02 am

I use a "full sized" charger. It has a 2 amp mode that I use for the Buddy. The 10 amp mode is for cars. It has 3 modes - manual, auto and deep cycle. It's a good "one size fits all" charger.

juice · Post by **juice** » Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:27 am

Full size chargers are great for a fast fix but float chargers can be left hooked up when you are not using the scoot , so you always have a full charge and they can add years to the life of the battery . At around $20.00 its really a no brainer IMO .

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Tue Jun 29, 2010 3:48 pm

illnoise wrote:Older Buddys don't have a power outlet.

To be more precise, '06 Buddys don't. For the rest of us, it is a really handy way to hook up a small trickle charger.

Post by **jmazza** » Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:10 pm

Dooglas wrote:
illnoise wrote:Older Buddys don't have a power outlet.
To be more precise, '06 Buddys don't. For the rest of us, it is a really handy way to hook up a small trickle charger.

I think the only '07s that have an outlet are the Italias? Didn't the outlet only become standard on '08s?

I definitely could be wrong, but I seem to remember the outlet as a selling point of the Italia when it was introduced.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:54 pm

jmazza wrote:I think the only '07s that have an outlet are the Italias? Didn't the outlet only become standard on '08s?

Our red '07 125 in the garage has one. As far as I know, they were standard in '07 (along with the larger headlight).

Post by **jmazza** » Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:56 pm

Dooglas wrote:
jmazza wrote:I think the only '07s that have an outlet are the Italias? Didn't the outlet only become standard on '08s?
Our red '07 125 in the garage has one. As far as I know, they were standard in '07 (along with the larger headlight).

Well there you have it.

Post by **illnoise** » Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:05 pm

Dooglas wrote:
jmazza wrote:Our red '07 125 in the garage has one. As far as I know, they were standard in '07 (along with the larger headlight).
Well there you have it. 8)

Yes, it definitely was added when the bigger headlights were added, whenever that was.

Bb.

ScooterTrash · Post by **ScooterTrash** » Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:03 pm

jmazza wrote:
Dooglas wrote:
illnoise wrote:Older Buddys don't have a power outlet.
To be more precise, '06 Buddys don't. For the rest of us, it is a really handy way to hook up a small trickle charger.
I think the only '07s that have an outlet are the Italias? Didn't the outlet only become standard on '08s?

I definitely could be wrong, but I seem to remember the outlet as a selling point of the Italia when it was introduced.

All 07's did

bpatrick5 · Post by **bpatrick5** » Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:43 pm

illnoise wrote:bigger headlights were added, whenever that was.Bb.

Buddy's used to have a physically smaller headlight or a less powerful headlight? Assuming it could be just as bright, a smaller headlight would probably be pretty cool looking, IMO.

Hwarang · Post by **Hwarang** » Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:55 pm

TnShrubber wrote:Is there a reason why the Battery Tender Jr. is better than the regular one other than costs? Scooterworks is out of stock, but Amazon has the Juniors for $27 & the 'Seniors' for $46.

It's just a size thing. You get one display: an LED that has four states.
- blinking red: battery hosed, will not charge
- solid red: charging, currently below 80%
- solid green: charging, above 80%
- blinking green, tending battery @ max

TnShrubber · Post by **TnShrubber** » Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:20 pm

Thanks for your help guys...it turns out the battery was "shot" according to the mechanic. It won't hold a charge over 10.5.

So I am having to purchase a new one. Would I still be able to get any usage out of this older battery? Would it operate the blinkers / horn still at this new lower reading?

TnShrubber · Post by **TnShrubber** » Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:55 pm

I asked the guy at the scooter shop the same question and he said that it really was useless at this point. It has to be @ 13 volts for the battery to do much of anything. I'll just eat the $50 lesson and add it to my scooter bill

But, I'm glad to have a working Buddy again! Ignition fires right up, headlamp, blinkers, and horn all work!

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:00 pm

TnShrubber wrote: Would I still be able to get any usage out of this older battery?

The only good use for a dead scooter battery is to recycle it for the lead.

TnShrubber wrote:Is there a reason why the Battery Tender Jr. is better than the regular one other than costs?

Just the one I mentioned above. The Battery Tender Plus puts out 1.25A and it may blow the fuse in the 12V power outlet if you choose to connect the tender in that way. (the Battery Tender Jr, puts out 0.75A)

tetonmtnrider · Post by **tetonmtnrider** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 2:56 pm

Dooglas wrote:The one thing to know is that the 12V outlet inside the leg shield of the Buddy has a 1A fuse. This is the handiest place to hook up a charger and most (including the BT jr) come with a so-called cigarette lighter adaper.

I bought the tender and the "cigarette lighter adapter" a week ago. The charger works great with the aligator clips, but the cig lighter adapter does not. I tested the outlet, and it only gives power (so I assume would only recieve power) when the scoot is running. When I plug it in with it off, the tender flasher indicates it is not charging. When I turn the scoot to on with the key (without starting) I get the same thing. Does anyone use the cig lighter adapter successfully?

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:13 pm

I know the 12V socket is live when the key is set to "on" but the engine is not running; I've trickle-charged my iPhone that way. What I don't remember is whether the kill switch needs to be in the "running" position for that; if it also disconnects the 12V socket, that would prevent the BT from charging the battery.

(Since the only time I've used the BT has been for winter storage, I just hook it directly to the battery: a minor inconvenience.)

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:24 pm

tetonmtnrider wrote: Does anyone use the cig lighter adapter successfully?

Yes, that is how I trickle charge the battery in the Buddy.

tetonmtnrider · Post by **tetonmtnrider** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:39 pm

Dooglas wrote:
tetonmtnrider wrote: Does anyone use the cig lighter adapter successfully?
Yes, that is how I trickle charge the battery in the Buddy.

Do you have the key to "on" and the kill switch on in order for it to work?

If so, I have done Lil Buddy's deadlight conversion on the ignition power. I would need to switch it to the headlight, or else the lights would be on while I try to charge.

Another excuse to tinker

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 12:28 am

tetonmtnrider wrote:Do you have the key to "on" and the kill switch on in order for it to work?

No, it will charge with the ignition circuit turned off. The 12V outlet is likewise live when the scooter is parked (just like the 12V outlet in my car). Now, darned if I know whether all Buddys are wired the same or whether there are differences among years or models regarding how the outlet functions.

natron3000 · Post by **natron3000** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:30 am

Same thing happened to me. The 1 amp fuse was blown. It's was easy to replace once I finally found one. I ordered 10 just to be safe.

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSea ... e=F2232-ND

Hopefully that is the answer to your problem.

Lil Buddy · Post by **Lil Buddy** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:36 am

tetonmtnrider wrote:I bought the tender and the "cigarette lighter adapter" a week ago. The charger works great with the aligator clips, but the cig lighter adapter does not. When I plug it in with it off, the tender flasher indicates it is not charging. When I turn the scoot to on with the key (without starting) I get the same thing. Does anyone use the cig lighter adapter successfully?

So when you plug the tender into your scoot, it flashes red? And you have tested the accessory outlet? Sounds like a faulty cig adapter plug.

And no, you should not have the key turned on when using the tender. That would be a losing battle.

tetonmtnrider · Post by **tetonmtnrider** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:07 am

Lil Buddy wrote:
tetonmtnrider wrote:I bought the tender and the "cigarette lighter adapter" a week ago. The charger works great with the aligator clips, but the cig lighter adapter does not. When I plug it in with it off, the tender flasher indicates it is not charging. When I turn the scoot to on with the key (without starting) I get the same thing. Does anyone use the cig lighter adapter successfully?
So when you plug the tender into your scoot, it flashes red? And you have tested the accessory outlet? Sounds like a faulty cig adapter plug.

And no, you should not have the key turned on when using the tender. That would be a losing battle.

I can't remember what flash I got, but it was definately the "not charging" indicator. When I switched from the cig adapter to alligator clips I got the "charging" light followed by the green (85%) Flash followed by the solid green. I'll retest when I get home tomorrow and let you know what I find out. Didn't even consider the adapter plug may be faulty. It may be an outlet fuse, but I swore the outlet powered a phone charger when I started it. But I am beginning to question my memory.

By the way. I was a little dissapointed in the deadlight conversion kit. I was hoping for a project, but it only took a minute or 2 to install

. Seriously though. Very nice product.

Lil Buddy · Post by **Lil Buddy** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:37 am

tetonmtnrider wrote:By the way. I was a little dissapointed in the deadlight conversion kit. I was hoping for a project, but it only took a minute or 2 to install . Seriously though. Very nice product.

Haha. Maybe I should offer them at a discounted price for just the raw parts..... nah.

If your outlet works, its gotta be the cig plug. Either its not plugged in at the connection or into the outlet, or its just faulty.

If the outlet does not work, check the fuse and wiring connections.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:18 pm

I'm with natron3000 - if your 12V outlet is not live with the ignition turned off, most likely that your 1A fuse is blown.

tetonmtnrider · Post by **tetonmtnrider** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:46 pm

It was the Cig lighter accessory fuse. Replaced with a 5 amp and working fine.

Lil Buddy, I threw you off saying that the outlet was working when the engine was running. That is clearly impossible with a blown fuse. I think I blew it afterwards the first time I tried to charge.

Thanks for the responses. Easy charging now.

Tocsik · Post by **Tocsik** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 4:02 pm

is the wiring of sufficient gauge to replace the accessory outlet fuse with a 5 amp?

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:13 pm

On the subject of charging through the 12v power outlet with a BTJr, I have a bit of warning to offer:

In my '09 Italia, the BTJr and the cig adapter worked correctly, charging with the key removed, no problem. However, I was chasing a no-start condition, forgot to unplug the BT from the 12v socket, and attempted to electric-start it with the BT still connected. Got the dreaded flashing red light, meaning Something Is Wrong.

Three possible points of failure - blown BT, blown 12v socket fuse, or one little other possibility - there's another fuse in the BT's cig adaptor, too, which you can find by unscrewing the end near the center pin.

I connected up directly to the Buddy's battery with the alligator clips, and it charged as normal, so the BT's OK. The fuse in the cig adapter looks like a slo-blow, so I can't really check for blowage visually, and I can't find my ohm-meter. I also have to pull the front rack off my Buddy to get to the 1A blade fuse under the hood, so that's tonight's project.