Project "Frenchy" (we love gold!) 56k Beware!

Discussion of the Genuine Buddy, Hooligan, Black Jack and other topics, both scooter related and not

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How fast do you think it will go?

100
19
22%
75
36
42%
50
4
5%
Who cares lets race!
27
31%
 
Total votes: 86

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Project "Frenchy" (we love gold!) 56k Beware!

Post by NASRA »

Welcome race fans!

Scooterworks USA and NASRA has teamed up to build Project "Frenchy" the worlds fastest Buddy. Each step of the build will be documented as a "How-to" for racers, and enthusiasts alike.

Eventually we plan on taking Frenchy out to the flats and set the 10" wheel automatic scooter land speed record. Until then we will be racing at the Scooterworks Drag Race Series and NASRA Track days. Come out and join us and get a close up look at Frenchy for yourself.

Fresh from the Genuine Scooter's Warehouse

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Cleaned up, PDI, and ready to ride.

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Gotta admit the Saint Tropez Buddy is one nice looking scooter. Since its a 2 stroke minarelli derivative we should be able to make some power once we get everything switched over to race parts.

More details coming soon,
Last edited by NASRA on Mon May 02, 2011 8:52 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Post by jasondavis48108 »

I'm really looking forward to seeing how this build goes :D
Good luck and make all of us Buddy 50 owners proud!

btw, I'm especially looking forward to the how-to stuff. I love tinkering with stuff and can't wait to start tinkering with the Buddy now that the warranty is almost up. Will you be posting updates here or just on the NASRA site?
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Post by TVB »

Obviously you'll get this above 50mph; even I could figure out how to pull that off. Of course I'm of the opinion that doing this is Defeating The Purpose of the Buddy 50, but I don't judge others their peculiarities :) , and I look forward to seeing the project progress.
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Post by NASRA »

First things first lets remove the oem restrictions.

From the factory our top speed was limited to 32mph (GPS) due to the fact that there are two main restrictions on the buddy 50 2t.

1. The variator has a spacer that keeps the belt from reaching the overdrive portion of the variator. This is very simple to remove.

Remove CVT cover.

Image

Use air or electric impact gun and remove the nut holding the outer variator drive face and remove drive face.

Tip: Always use a little dab of blue locktite on all bolts and nuts and be careful to not over tighten the variator nut during reassembly.

Image

You can see the spacer at this point and its just a simple process of removal.

Image

Now lets replace the heavy stock 7.5G 16X13 rollers with a nice set of Prima 6.5G. This will offer us better takeoff without sacrificing top end performance. In the future we will be revising the transmission and will go with a more aggressive level of tune.

Image

A few measurements to note:

13mm crank shaft
94mm OD of Variator (Found some interesting variator options that we will explore later).
16X13 rollers

Reinstall variator, belt, outer drive face, and cvt cover and this part of de-restricting the scooter is done.

2. Genuine also placed a restrictive washer in the exhaust manifold to keep the speed down. This is easier to remove than the spacer.

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Remove the two nuts holding the header to the head.

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Then remove the other two bolts holding the exhaust on.

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From there just simply remove the washer with a flat head screwdriver.

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Reinstall the exhaust using a new exhaust gasket and this part of the project is done.

Now the buddy accelerates much better and has a top speed of almost 40mph (GPS)

Fastest 660ft so far 17.78 @ 34.29 mph. Not to bad for a stock scooter.
Last edited by NASRA on Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by NASRA »

jasondavis48108 wrote:I'm really looking forward to seeing how this build goes :D
Good luck and make all of us Buddy 50 owners proud!

btw, I'm especially looking forward to the how-to stuff. I love tinkering with stuff and can't wait to start tinkering with the Buddy now that the warranty is almost up. Will you be posting updates here or just on the NASRA site?
I will be posting here, and on the NASRA site. There will also be articles in our NASRA newsletter that covers all of this material as well.

Thanks for the support!
Last edited by NASRA on Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by laxer »

Well, to be the world's fastest Buddy, you'll have to get it over 88 mph (and perhaps find a way to create 1.21 gigawatts).
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Post by NASRA »

TVB wrote:Obviously you'll get this above 50mph; even I could figure out how to pull that off. Of course I'm of the opinion that doing this is Defeating The Purpose of the Buddy 50, but I don't judge others their peculiarities :) , and I look forward to seeing the project progress.
Thanks TVB,

As you well know by now its possible to make up to 30hp with a well tuned watercooled 70cc 2t engine. The major weak link in this project is the transmission, a problem we have yet to figure out how to solve.

My goal is to reach the 100mph club. :twisted:
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Post by NASRA »

laxer wrote:Well, to be the world's fastest Buddy, you'll have to get it over 88 mph (and perhaps find a way to create 1.21 gigawatts).
If all else fails, nitrous.
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Post by gearhead »

nice! playing with 2t are really the art voodoo magic!
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Post by Kaos »

Well, you've pushed my project to the next level. I'm looking for a 250cc engine to drop in my Buddy right this moment to make my Voodoo bike just a little more Magic! :)

Glad to see other insane scooter projects surfacing!
Checkout <a href=http://www.voodoo-buddy.com>Voodoo Buddy</a> for current mods.

Current Top speed:88MPH
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Post by NASRA »

It dont count if you gotta swap engines. I could put a cbr 600 in this and knock everyone off the block.

Are you saying you just cant make any more power with your GY6?
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Post by nissanman »

Kaos likes to keep his a daily ride too, not 100% off road use only. I'm sure there's more in the GY6... :twisted:
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Post by jasondavis48108 »

Are you going to keep it at 50cc or are you going to kit it? I've been toying with the idea of trying to see just how fast it can go without changing the displacement, then after that going up to 70cc. It would be cool to see what a 50cc Buddy is really capable of when tuned up just right with a 50cc racing cylinder. Problem is this stuff gets kinda expensive and I've heard realy good things about the Top Performance trophey 70cc kit.

btw I agree about the engine swap thing although I can't wait to see what kind of awesome monster you end up with Kaos.

I'd also like to see someone shoehorn a 250 into a C3 :lol:
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Post by Kaos »

nissanman wrote:Kaos likes to keep his a daily ride too, not 100% off road use only. I'm sure there's more in the GY6... :twisted:
There is, but its getting unstreetable. And its currently in need of a rebuild, so now is a good time for a swap.

It's my daily rider and I've put 30k on it in 2 years so reliability is important.
Checkout <a href=http://www.voodoo-buddy.com>Voodoo Buddy</a> for current mods.

Current Top speed:88MPH
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Post by KRUSTYburger »

Kaos, I see your top speed is now 88 rather than 81, what happened? Either way, I'm impressed.

As for the NASRA Saint Tropez, I'm also wondering if you plan on putting a cylinder kit or leave it 50cc with other upgrades.
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Post by Kaos »

KRUSTYburger wrote:Kaos, I see your top speed is now 88 rather than 81, what happened? Either way, I'm impressed.

As for the NASRA Saint Tropez, I'm also wondering if you plan on putting a cylinder kit or leave it 50cc with other upgrades.
Its actually been stuck at 88 for a while now, I think I beat 81 around the time I did some more head work and swapped for the A8 cam.
Checkout <a href=http://www.voodoo-buddy.com>Voodoo Buddy</a> for current mods.

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Post by ScooterTrash »

Kaos wrote:
nissanman wrote:Kaos likes to keep his a daily ride too, not 100% off road use only. I'm sure there's more in the GY6... :twisted:
There is, but its getting unstreetable. And its currently in need of a rebuild, so now is a good time for a swap.

It's my daily rider and I've put 30k on it in 2 years so reliability is important.
Yeah, you've already passed my comfort zone for a daily scoot
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Post by rsrider »

I need that roller set to keep up with you. How do you subscribe to a thread? Where's the button?
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Post by Kaos »

ScooterTrash wrote:
Kaos wrote:
nissanman wrote:Kaos likes to keep his a daily ride too, not 100% off road use only. I'm sure there's more in the GY6... :twisted:
There is, but its getting unstreetable. And its currently in need of a rebuild, so now is a good time for a swap.

It's my daily rider and I've put 30k on it in 2 years so reliability is important.
Yeah, you've already passed my comfort zone for a daily scoot
I'm a little more tolerant than most. I daily drove a track ready pro-street '70 Plymouth before the scoot :P

I do think a stock GTS250 motor will likely actually be more streetable than my current setup.
Checkout <a href=http://www.voodoo-buddy.com>Voodoo Buddy</a> for current mods.

Current Top speed:88MPH
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Post by bigbropgo »

jasondavis48108 wrote:I'd also like to see someone shoehorn a 250 into a C3 :lol:
its only a 150cc, but thought it was awesome. :shock:

http://totalruckus.com/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 92&t=27043

this is a met and not a buddy but if kaos is doing a rebuild, this is what he needs to do. :D

http://totalruckus.com/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 92&t=38038
http://www.ch250.net/techtips.htm (for future reference) 8)
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Post by gearhead »

30hp on a 70cc 2t watercooled?!? i wonder what is the max on an air cooled 70cc 2t horizontal minarelli....
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Post by jasondavis48108 »

bigbropgo wrote:
jasondavis48108 wrote:I'd also like to see someone shoehorn a 250 into a C3 :lol:
its only a 150cc, but thought it was awesome. :shock:

http://totalruckus.com/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 92&t=27043

this is a met and not a buddy but if kaos is doing a rebuild, this is what he needs to do. :D

http://totalruckus.com/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 92&t=38038
http://www.ch250.net/techtips.htm (for future reference) 8)
that C3 150 swap was awesome. The metro swap was just insane :lol:
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Post by NASRA »

Eventually we will be pushing it to the limit with the big bore kit and all the best parts Scooterworks USA has to offer. My biggest hurdle at this point is finding tires that are rated for the speed I hope to run. If you find any 120mph 3x10 tires let me know :lol:
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Post by jasondavis48108 »

NASRA wrote:Eventually we will be pushing it to the limit with the big bore kit and all the best parts Scooterworks USA has to offer. My biggest hurdle at this point is finding tires that are rated for the speed I hope to run. If you find any 120mph 3x10 tires let me know :lol:
so are you limiting yourself to only parts that scooterworks curently carries or parts that scooterworks can get ahold of for you? Scooterworks really doesn't carry much for the Buddy 50, although maybe with this project going on they will start to carry a better selection of aftermarket parts for us 50cc Buddy riders :twisted:
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Post by NASRA »

I hate to hijack my own thread but if you guys like motorswaps then check out my current daily driver.

http://totalruckus.com/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 92&t=39063

Here are a few photos and a video of last weekends scooter race.

Image

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We just smile and know its just learning how to walk. Now lets work on running 8)
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Project "Frenchy" the worlds fastest Buddy

Post by Tee Jay »

Is it possible to de-stroke and over bore the cylinder. This would keep the displacement the same. It would Increase the top end but reduce torque. In circle track racing that was the most favored mod. Take a 400cu in motor and de-stroke to 355cu in, If I remember correctly, Formula 1 type racing has 8 cylinder motors with less the 3.0 liters of displacing turning around 12,000 rpm.

Another question:

Are you going to draft behind a Big Rig truck to get up to starting speed?

PS: Thanks for the pics and explanations. It gives up hope and courage to tackle these kind of things
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Post by Tee Jay »

I hate my fingers (except for the flying finger wave that I give to cars that get too close while riding)

I meant to say
IT GIVES US HOPE AND COURAGE

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Post by NASRA »

jasondavis48108 wrote:
NASRA wrote:Eventually we will be pushing it to the limit with the big bore kit and all the best parts Scooterworks USA has to offer. My biggest hurdle at this point is finding tires that are rated for the speed I hope to run. If you find any 120mph 3x10 tires let me know :lol:
so are you limiting yourself to only parts that scooterworks curently carries or parts that scooterworks can get ahold of for you? Scooterworks really doesn't carry much for the Buddy 50, although maybe with this project going on they will start to carry a better selection of aftermarket parts for us 50cc Buddy riders :twisted:
Until we exhaust our parts resources at Scooterworks USA we wont be going outside the catalog. I know they have a few items that never make it to the website and if you were to call and talk to one of their reps (drew) they may have some ideas on how to upgrade your buddy. :wink:

Once my shop figures out what works we will be posting that info here along with specials only for Modern Buddy members. 8)
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Re: Project "Frenchy" the worlds fastest Buddy

Post by NASRA »

Tee Jay wrote:Is it possible to de-stroke and over bore the cylinder. This would keep the displacement the same. It would Increase the top end but reduce torque. In circle track racing that was the most favored mod. Take a 400cu in motor and de-stroke to 355cu in, If I remember correctly, Formula 1 type racing has 8 cylinder motors with less the 3.0 liters of displacing turning around 12,000 rpm.

Another question:

Are you going to draft behind a Big Rig truck to get up to starting speed?

PS: Thanks for the pics and explanations. It gives up hope and courage to tackle these kind of things
Plan is to split the case install better crank bearings, full circle balanced crank, ported case, and a highly modified super secret top end. Im not sure how effective de-stroking is on a 2t.

As far as the flats I really don't know. I do plan on testing a couple windshields but everything else will come in the fold. Gotta finish out the race season first.
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Post by gearhead »

Nice build on tr! I have an 08 zuma and bought the prima big bore kit for it. Haven't installed it yet. :P
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Post by Kaos »

That Zuma swapped Ruck is sweet. I always liked that combo.
Checkout <a href=http://www.voodoo-buddy.com>Voodoo Buddy</a> for current mods.

Current Top speed:88MPH
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Post by BuddyRaton »

Going to weld the crank? This is typically needed with Vespa 2Ts once getting to 20hp
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Post by NASRA »

No need to weld the crank on the Minarelli motors.
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Post by jmkjr72 »

NASRA wrote:Eventually we will be pushing it to the limit with the big bore kit and all the best parts Scooterworks USA has to offer. My biggest hurdle at this point is finding tires that are rated for the speed I hope to run. If you find any 120mph 3x10 tires let me know :lol:
well if you are sticking to scooter works parts you will be lucky to hit 80 and when did they start offering the water pump for the hm engine

now if you get exotic and use euro parts your 100mph mark shouldnt be an issue

and putting a kited hm up against even a very wild gy6 isnt a fair fight well built kitted hm will smoke even wild gy6s
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Post by NASRA »

jmkjr72 wrote:Now if you get exotic and use euro parts your 100mph mark shouldnt be an issue
Yes, and its a maybe. Nobody has ever tried this before let alone on a knockoff motor with very limited parts support. Then again Ive always been one for a challenge. :twisted:
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Post by gearhead »

jmkjr72 wrote:...and putting a kited hm up against even a very wild gy6 isnt a fair fight well built kitted hm will smoke even wild gy6s
damn my swapped 2t zuma ruckus friends will be able to smoke me... but playing with the 2t and getting that kind of power is $$$
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Post by jmkjr72 »

gearhead wrote:
jmkjr72 wrote:...and putting a kited hm up against even a very wild gy6 isnt a fair fight well built kitted hm will smoke even wild gy6s
damn my swapped 2t zuma ruckus friends will be able to smoke me... but playing with the 2t and getting that kind of power is $$$
not if you know what your doing and what parts match up good
for about 300 bucks i built a zuma that would run 60 all day long and that was just a kit and a pipe bolt on no case mods and stock crank

now with a bit more my zuma will be running 70 to 80 all day long with the lc conversion and thats still on a sport/mid race set up

the pia for doing a good lc swap is the little parts we dont get here for lc scooters
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Post by gearhead »

how can you make a zuma 50 motor do 60mph all day with $300? my friends have all the bells and whistles on their zuma swaps and can't consistently do 65mph. they are fast off the line, but once we get up there, to 50 mph i pass them up

they've got racing cranks, reeds, carb, pipe, etc which all cost alot of money lol
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Post by NASRA »

Gears are the key .02
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Post by jmkjr72 »

yep the 08 and newer have a better gearing set up

and the proper kit and pipe with proper tuning

you can thorw all sorts of expensive parts at it but if they dont work well together then you wont get the performance you should

and attentiion to detail when putting it together and tuning it

you know with just a bit of magic with my dremel and a pipe i have had the stock 50cc bore up to 50mph on the flats
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Post by NASRA »

What setup were you running for the reliable 60?
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Post by jmkjr72 »

cleaned up top performance trophy kit leo vince sp3 and 6.9 gram weights
and sl60 tires at 32 psi

right now im working on getting a lc pollini corsa kit up and running then next year i will replace the crank and go with the top perfomance duo kit with modular head
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Post by Kaos »

NASRA wrote:Eventually we will be pushing it to the limit with the big bore kit and all the best parts Scooterworks USA has to offer. My biggest hurdle at this point is finding tires that are rated for the speed I hope to run. If you find any 120mph 3x10 tires let me know :lol:
Vee Rubber has a set that are P rated(95 mph), as does Pirelli.

Thats been the hardest part about my build. Finding tires rated for what I can do. :)
Checkout <a href=http://www.voodoo-buddy.com>Voodoo Buddy</a> for current mods.

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Post by NASRA »

Prima Stage 1 kit installation and review.

Image

The Prima Stage 1 Kit comes with:

Prima exhaust & all necessary hardware including gasket
6.5G Prima Rollers
1000 rpm torque spring
3 jets 85 - 90 - 95

As you can see the pipe has a nice overall fit and finish to it.

Image

Compared to stock

Image

The installation was super easy and came with very good instructions.

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Remove the two exhaust header nuts.

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The two hanger bolts

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Remove the emissions tube, effectively making this a "off road only" race scooter.

Image

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Installation only took about 15 min's to complete even with the pictures and removal of the seat bucket. So far this buddy has been very easy to work on.

Looks and sounds great.

Image

We decided to take it on a test run "as-is" without any jetting changes or spring installation.

(Remember we already have 6.5G rollers installed)

Results were what we expected. Loss of bottom end performance but we had a top speed increase of over 5 mph and much better midrange performance.

Plug chop at this point was reading lean.

Now we break out the handy ZTR tool and install the 1000 spring.

Image

Image

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Done deal

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After the clutch was re-installed I took it on another test ride. Top speed of 45 mph (GPS) was still there but the acceleration was very much improved and overall we were very satisfied with this part of the upgrade. However the plug chop still showed lean.

Now time to tune the carburetor.

We went ahead and removed the carb and installed the 95 main straight off because its better to tune rich and work down to lean. We found with the stock air box this was the perfect combo for our setup. At this point the restriction was still in the airbox.

Test ride and the top speed remained unchanged.

From there I installed a free flow air filter as a experiment.

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Although it looked cool the plug chop read very lean with this setup and the noise was unbearable for most people. The intake was by far louder than the exhaust. Not only that but we found the intake runner and carb to be to small to handle this type of intake no matter what the jetting change. Not only that but there was very little performance increase over the stock airbox.

(Wish I had took more pictures at this point sorry guys)

Next we installed the modified airbox (removed intake tube) and it ran about the same with a bit more bottom end pull. Nothing to write home about but at least we were no longer running lean and the throttle response was a bit better also.

Overall results:

Stage 1 kit w/ 95 main jet, Prima exhaust, 1000 rpm spring, 6.5G rollers, and modified air box.

Better acceleration
Better midrange acceleration
5 mph top speed increase to 45 mph on flat ground (270# rider)
Hill climbing performance increased a bit but not a whole bunch.

We will be playing with lighter rollers at the track and will keep you posted of the results.

Next round 70cc Prima Big Bore Kit.
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jmkjr72
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Post by jmkjr72 »

so just a contra spring and no stiffer clutch springs with this set up
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Post by NASRA »

Correct.

We have plans for this transmission. :twisted:
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Post by jasondavis48108 »

Thanks for the update. As you know I've just installed the stage 1 kit as well. I didn't remove the intake hose but just plugged it and zip tied it up out of the way. Would it make a difference if I just removed the hose completly? I went with the 85 jet, but havn't been able to do the plug chop corectly yet, however I did pick up a new hack saw today just for the task :twisted: . Hopefuly tomorrow. Also, did your kit come with 6.5g rolloers? Mine came with 5g rollers but I didn't use them and instead used 7.5g dr pulley sliders.
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Post by NASRA »

jasondavis48108 wrote:Thanks for the update. As you know I've just installed the stage 1 kit as well. I didn't remove the intake hose but just plugged it and zip tied it up out of the way. Would it make a difference if I just removed the hose completly? I went with the 85 jet, but havn't been able to do the plug chop corectly yet, however I did pick up a new hack saw today just for the task :twisted: . Hopefuly tomorrow. Also, did your kit come with 6.5g rolloers? Mine came with 5g rollers but I didn't use them and instead used 7.5g dr pulley sliders.
Honestly I bought the stage 2 upgrade kit and just installed the parts that would be with the stage 1 kit. I would suspect the 5G rollers would work a lot better on acceleration and we will be experimenting with those at the track .

No the hose just feeds air into the stock exhaust to "water down" the emissions.
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Post by jasondavis48108 »

Thanx NASRA, I feel like I've learned more about my scooter in the last couple of weeks than I have in the two years I've owned it :lol:
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Post by NASRA »

jasondavis48108 wrote:Thanx NASRA, I feel like I've learned more about my scooter in the last couple of weeks than I have in the two years I've owned it :lol:
Thanks this is the reason we are doing the "how-to" articles, so you guys feel more comfortable with your machines and performing upgrades. We have been very busy in the shop working on Frenchy upgrading the engine and a few other odd's and end's. However before I get ahead of myself here is how it performed a couple weekends ago at the Scooterworks Drag Race Series.

Stock our best time in the 1/8 was 17.78 @ 34.29 mph.

After we installed and tuned the Scooterworks stage 1 kit we ran a 16.11 @ 39.23 mph.

We shaved 1.6 seconds off of our ET and a increase of 4.94 mph!

A few pics of The Scooterworks Drag Race Series Round 2

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You can follow the series @ www.Scooter-Racing.net/ScooterworksDragRaceSeries

Also for kicks here are a few pictures of the NASRA track day. We had a blast and big thanks to Scott Smallwood for showing us the ropes.

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