Project: BIG BAD VOODOO BUDDY

gearhead · Post by **gearhead** » Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:38 pm

Awesome! This is going to be one sick nasty build!

If you mount the radiator underneath the front plastic, you might not get any airflow unless you make a sick vent in the front lol

I'll take your old engine off your hands

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:42 pm

gearhead wrote:Awesome! This is going to be one sick nasty build!

If you mount the radiator underneath the front plastic, you might not get any airflow unless you make a sick vent in the front lol

I'll take your old engine off your hands

I'd be willing to let it go. It needs a little bit of work, but its got all the go-fast setup on it all ready

gearhead · Post by **gearhead** » Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:43 pm

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:16 am

My GTS motor arrived today, and after some quick measurements, it looks like its going to fit nicely! Its only about 3/4 of an inch wider and about 3 longer, the swing arm LOOKS like it lines up perfectly with the existing bolt holes too. We'll find out when I get the other motor out of the frame.

Mr Miller · Post by **Mr Miller** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:09 am

Yay!

Post by **Lostmycage** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:18 am

Go on...

bunny · Post by **bunny** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:53 pm

Well?

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:58 pm

Nothing new to report. Work's been taking all my spare time. :/

My '74 Super crapped out on me last night too, which means I need to fix it as well.

But Mr Miller and another friend are going to be hanging out with me on Saturday to pull the motor and begin the install(Well, and fix Mr Miller's carburation issues too...).

gearhead · Post by **gearhead** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:15 pm

you can line up the wheels with a rail and then weld the mounts on so the wheels are straight

OopsClunkThud · Post by **OopsClunkThud** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:16 pm

The gts has a rev limiter that starts kicking in at 82mph. The CDI is mixed in with the EFI logic and all housed in the throttle body. you may be able to use some BV or sportcity stator parts off a carbed bike to get more options on both ignition and mixture.

There are also no upgear kits.

That said they produce great power.

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:20 pm

gearhead wrote:you can line up the wheels with a rail and then weld the mounts on so the wheels are straight

I've got a GTS swing arm, and it actually looks like it'll bolt to the stock holes surprisingly. We'll find out shortly

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:22 pm

Kaos wrote:
gearhead wrote:you can line up the wheels with a rail and then weld the mounts on so the wheels are straight
I've got a GTS swing arm, and it actually looks like it'll bolt to the stock holes surprisingly. We'll find out shortly

Thats awesome info, thanks! I've seen aftermarket CDI/EFI controller setups that lack the rev limiter. That being said, they're like $250, so I don't think I'll be using them at this point.

I have a friend with a GTS thats had it to 95, but its older and may be a carb'd model.

OopsClunkThud · Post by **OopsClunkThud** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:56 pm

Kaos wrote:I have a friend with a GTS thats had it to 95, but its older and may be a carb'd model.

The limiter starts by cutting every 7th spark, then every 3rd. On a down hill, with the wind, at high altitude... where the power needed to go faster is not as great they can be pushed faster. Also the 82mph is by GPS not the speedo.

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Wed Jul 21, 2010 4:39 am

OopsClunkThud wrote:
Kaos wrote:I have a friend with a GTS thats had it to 95, but its older and may be a carb'd model.
The limiter starts by cutting every 7th spark, then every 3rd. On a down hill, with the wind, at high altitude... where the power needed to go faster is not as great they can be pushed faster. Also the 82mph is by GPS not the speedo.

Since you seem to know a lot about the GTS, do you know what year they started shipping the anti-theft transponders?

OopsClunkThud · Post by **OopsClunkThud** » Wed Jul 21, 2010 2:33 pm

Kaos wrote:Since you seem to know a lot about the GTS, do you know what year they started shipping the anti-theft transponders?

Here's some good info on the GTS

http://www.modernvespa.com/forum/wiki-gts-250

They were introduced in 2006 and have always had the immobilizer (just like the GT, LX, and ET). On all of them the pickup is a loop around the key. On the GTS the immobilizer circuit is part of the throttle body along with the CDI and injector logic.

If you are using an aftermarket injector then you will automatically be bypassing the immobilizer. If you use the stock throttle body you will need the "red key" that goes with it.

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:51 pm

No, its not actually that high its On a jackstand. But its mounted!

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 7:56 pm

Other side.

KRUSTYburger · Post by **KRUSTYburger** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:49 pm

AWESOME!!! Who's is the black one in the background? You wanna do mine next?

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:06 pm

KRUSTYburger wrote:AWESOME!!! Who's is the black one in the background? You wanna do mine next?

Heh, its a buddy of mine's. The thing you don't see is the 64 vespa
smallframe Thats got my old motor in it(or will shortly).

It actually mounted fairly easily, there's just one cross brace I've got to relocate.

KRUSTYburger · Post by **KRUSTYburger** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:09 pm

intriguing.

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:20 pm

Very cool Kaos, looks like its coming along quite nicely

Mr Miller · Post by **Mr Miller** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:00 pm

Excited to see it in person (in the very near future:)

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Sun Jul 25, 2010 1:26 am

Here's a few more pics of the motor mounted in the frame.

<img src="http://www.voodoo-buddy.com/1.jpg">

Yep the head clears the frame....

<img src="http://www.voodoo-buddy.com/2.jpg">

Hey look, the seat still fits...

<img src="http://www.voodoo-buddy.com/3.jpg">

Its fully mounted into the bike, and very little actual cutting had to take place, I was pleasantly surprised.

I still have to figure out a shock for it, as you can see the stock Buddy one is gonna be far too long. I need to setup a mount for the radiator as well.

rajron · Post by **rajron** » Sun Jul 25, 2010 2:22 am

The 250 motor is much more powerful than the Buddy; notice #27 where a second shock is used, and the additional bearing on the outside of the axel.
Use this link for manuals on the 250, including shop and parts manuals.
http://www.wotmeworry.org.uk/manuals/Vespa/GTS250/

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Sun Jul 25, 2010 2:27 am

rajron wrote:The 250 motor is much more powerful than the Buddy; notice #27 where a second shock is used, and the additional bearing on the outside of the axel.
Use this link for manuals on the 250, including shop and parts manuals.
http://www.wotmeworry.org.uk/manuals/Vespa/GTS250/

Thanks for the link! I've been trying to decide if it NEEDS the second shock, since many street bikes get away with a monoshock. I need to go down to vespa Portland and look at one again...

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:49 pm

So I ordered a GTS rear wheel and hub last night for the BBVB. I'm trying to decide if I'm going to install the 12" wheel on the back, or attempt to convert the hub to fit a 10" rim to keep the Buddy's stock wheel size.

gearhead · Post by **gearhead** » Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:54 pm

this is awesome! lovin the pics! cant wait to see the end results!

gearhead · Post by **gearhead** » Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:56 pm

Kaos wrote:So I ordered a GTS rear wheel and hub last night for the BBVB. I'm trying to decide if I'm going to install the 12" wheel on the back, or attempt to convert the hub to fit a 10" rim to keep the Buddy's stock wheel size.

i would stick with the 12" rim because changing it to a 10" would mess up the gearing unless you do a 10" with a tire that has a large sidewall

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:59 am

gearhead wrote:
Kaos wrote:So I ordered a GTS rear wheel and hub last night for the BBVB. I'm trying to decide if I'm going to install the 12" wheel on the back, or attempt to convert the hub to fit a 10" rim to keep the Buddy's stock wheel size.
i would stick with the 12" rim because changing it to a 10" would mess up the gearing unless you do a 10" with a tire that has a large sidewall

Ahh, very good point. I hadn't thought of that. I'm just curious about how the handling will be affected by having a 12" rear and 10" front.... I could try and retrofit the front as well....

KRUSTYburger · Post by **KRUSTYburger** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:20 am

Wouldn't keeping the 12 on the back make it just a little faster?

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:34 am

KRUSTYburger wrote:Wouldn't keeping the 12 on the back make it just a little faster?

I would think switching to the 10 would make it faster. I could be thinking about it wrong though.

KRUSTYburger · Post by **KRUSTYburger** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:52 am

jasondavis48108 wrote:
KRUSTYburger wrote:Wouldn't keeping the 12 on the back make it just a little faster?
I would think switching to the 10 would make it faster. I could be thinking about it wrong though.

I was thinking that the larger circumference would give you more distance per rotation, right? then again I don't know much about physics.

Post by **Lostmycage** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:56 am

10"=quicker (lower gearing); faster acceleration with lower top speed.
12"=faster (higher gearing); slower acceleration with higher top speed.

I'd stick with the 12" rear (that's meant to go with the 250 QUASAR engine) and look at lowering the shock mount to get back to the 10" height.

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:25 am

Lostmycage wrote:10"=quicker (lower gearing); faster acceleration with lower top speed.
12"=faster (higher gearing); slower acceleration with higher top speed.

I'd stick with the 12" rear (that's meant to go with the 250 QUASAR engine) and look at lowering the shock mount to get back to the 10" height.

Yeah, LMC has it right, 12" is faster total top speed, while the 10" would accelerate much faster.

I think its going to accelerate just fine even with the 12"

Yeah, currently the stock Buddy shock is WAY too high. I need to measure the gap and get a shorter shock to get it to the height it aught to be.

Post by **Lostmycage** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:32 am

Kaos wrote: I think its going to accelerate just fine even with the 12"

Yeah, currently the stock Buddy shock is WAY too high. I need to measure the gap and get a shorter shock to get it to the height it aught to be.

Yeah, I think you'll be just fine with the 12" wheel. It shouldn't be too hard to find a shorter shock or relocate the shock mounts. What's the GTS shock's length, just out of curiosity?

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:39 am

Lostmycage wrote:
Kaos wrote: I think its going to accelerate just fine even with the 12"

Yeah, currently the stock Buddy shock is WAY too high. I need to measure the gap and get a shorter shock to get it to the height it aught to be.
Yeah, I think you'll be just fine with the 12" wheel. It shouldn't be too hard to find a shorter shock or relocate the shock mounts. What's the GTS shock's length, just out of curiosity?

I'm not sure off hand what the GTS shock length is, but eyeballing one at the store they're longer than the Buddy shock.

I'm going to measure the gap and find one thats more or less the same. I'd bet a Ruckus shock would be close...

gearhead · Post by **gearhead** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:57 am

Off the top of my head, the buddy rear shock is like 290mm I believe and a ruckus rear shock from eye to eye is around 245mm. A doppler shock would look nice on it or maybe the ncy adjustable shock

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:28 pm

gearhead wrote:Off the top of my head, the buddy rear shock is like 290mm I believe and a ruckus rear shock from eye to eye is around 245mm. A doppler shock would look nice on it or maybe the ncy adjustable shock

Thanks again for the info! Now that its mounted, its basically just rounding up some parts to put the rest of it together

I'm very happy with how well this is coming along, I didn't expect to have the motor anywhere near mounted yet

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:44 pm

Just to show you where my motor is going to end up, and the other side of this mad mad project...

Post by **Lostmycage** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:20 pm

Ha, cool!

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:33 pm

Lostmycage wrote:10"=quicker (lower gearing); faster acceleration with lower top speed.
12"=faster (higher gearing); slower acceleration with higher top speed.

I'd stick with the 12" rear (that's meant to go with the 250 QUASAR engine) and look at lowering the shock mount to get back to the 10" height.

This makes total sense now that I think about it. The morning coffee really helps

Collin · Post by **Collin** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:14 pm

Kaos wrote:Just to show you where my motor is going to end up, and the other side of this mad mad project...

I still think we are nutz

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:46 pm

Kaos wrote:Just to show you where my motor is going to end up, and the other side of this mad mad project...

So. You are taking a perfectly good Vespa engine and putting it into a Buddy.

Then, you are taking a perfectly good Buddy engine and putting it into a Vespa.

Sure, I get it now!

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:54 pm

Syd wrote:
Kaos wrote:Just to show you where my motor is going to end up, and the other side of this mad mad project...
So. You are taking a perfectly good Vespa engine and putting it into a Buddy.

Then, you are taking a perfectly good Buddy engine and putting it into a Vespa.

Sure, I get it now!

Exactly, you've got it now. So you must see why this all makes so much sense! They said I was MAD!! I'll show th.... Err.... Umm... Nevermind.

gearhead · Post by **gearhead** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:17 am

that vespa is going to be SICK! updates on both projects please

KRUSTYburger · Post by **KRUSTYburger** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:38 am

Are you gonna make that small frame a cutty-downy so you can lower the rear end, or just leave it up all drag style?

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:45 am

KRUSTYburger wrote:Are you gonna make that small frame a cutty-downy so you can lower the rear end, or just leave it up all drag style?

It's going to get an 8 inch rear wheel to fit it in a little better, but its still going to be up a little just because its not going to fit totally up in there. You'll still see most of the cvt cover below the cowel.

rajron · Post by **rajron** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:03 am

Kaos;

Regarding your Vespa take a look at this wild ride: http://www.modernvespa.com/forum/topic43873 , what I wanted to point out is how he cut up the Vespa to accept his new motor and the scooter ended up really awesome. Would you consider chopping up the Vespa to accept the new motor, it will look better with the 10” wheels sitting inside and lower; just a thought.

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:43 am

rajron wrote:Kaos;

Regarding your Vespa take a look at this wild ride: http://www.modernvespa.com/forum/topic43873 , what I wanted to point out is how he cut up the Vespa to accept his new motor and the scooter ended up really awesome. Would you consider chopping up the Vespa to accept the new motor, it will look better with the 10” wheels sitting inside and lower; just a thought.

Wow!, that scooter looks awesome. I noticed that the die hard vintage crowd didn't take to it too well which is understandable but I'm a sucker for a total bastard of a machine

Have to give its creator some serious props for that one.

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:50 am

rajron wrote:Kaos;

Regarding your Vespa take a look at this wild ride: http://www.modernvespa.com/forum/topic43873 , what I wanted to point out is how he cut up the Vespa to accept his new motor and the scooter ended up really awesome. Would you consider chopping up the Vespa to accept the new motor, it will look better with the 10” wheels sitting inside and lower; just a thought.

We've actually done a lot of cutting already, but the fact is there's
Just not a lot of room inside a smallframe. Collin wants it to look as stock as we can make it, and It's rider will be very short so thatsthe other reason for the smaller rims.

EDIT: And I forgot to mention, that build is wicked! A Dragster 180 engine in a widebody is just awesome.

Modern Buddy

Project: BIG BAD VOODOO BUDDY

fyi