US and Sym and warranty stuff (long)

[Vic]

As many aer aware, I had a problem with my Sym RV250 happen a little mroe than 3 weeks ago. My Sym is still under warranty, the water pump died, so this is a warranty thing.

To make things more interesting, jsut about the time my water pump croaked, the US distributor for Sym, Carter Brothers, had a disastrous fire of their warehouse that was ruled an arson, there is another thread about that.

The Sym distributor in Canada has stepped up and is serving the needs of the US dealers as, according to my dealer, Carter Brothers rebuilds. At this time, from what my resources tell me, things will be taken care of, warranties are a contract with Sym, not with Carter Brothers, and so they are still valid regardless of what happens with Carter Brothers in the future.

So, three weeks ago today, my dealer went to my house and picked up my scooter. There was a delay of two weeks before my dealer looked at the scooter to determine that the water pump was full of "mud". The dealer made a call to Sym Canada requesting Tech Support to discuss the situation and figure out what is needed.

A person that was not a tech, basically a Customer Service Liason that has been assigned to work with US dealers (I do not know if there is only one or anything like that, my dealer is dealing with one customer service rep) called her back on Thursday but the mechanic at my dealer works Monday through Wednesday, so my dealer instructed them to call back on Tuesday (yesterday). Canada set the US dealers up with online ordering so they can get needed items ordered that way.

The Customer Service (CSR) person called back and talked to my dealer, my dealer explained again what the situation is, as explained to her by the mechanic. The CSR then talked to the tech and relayed the information. Apparently the tech had a few questions which were relayed to my dealer who relayed the question to the mechanic, and the information was passed back down the grapevine again.

The CSR is also working to verify that they are sure which parts are the right ones, my dealer does not have a copy of my certificate of origin (I jut learned about this, so I will see fi I can find it at home...) so they are trying to go by the VIN to figure out what they are dealing with.

At this point I am not sure that they exactly know what caused the trouble, but I think they are going to try to get a new water pump and put that in and see if that solves the problem. My dealer wanted to try to do a flush, but is not doing that becasue they are not sure if that would invalidate the warranty and they don't want to do anything that would invalidate the warranty.

Of course, this is Wednesday and the mechanic is out tomorrow until next Monday, so I don't know what that is going to mean for me.

Once they do figure out what part is needed, we don't know if they have it in stock in Canada. I also do not know if it will be difficult to get across the border. I also do not know how long it will take, once it gets to my dealer to actually be installed into the scooter.

This is the first warranty claim that is coming from the US to be dealt with by Canada, according to my dealer.

Lucky me.

So, there it is, I have asked for a loaner scooter from my dealer since this is my main form of transportation and the scooter is less than a year old. I am also trying to figure out what my options are.

If anyone was wondering about things as far as warranty issues for Sym, this is the info that I have.

-v

[pcbikedude]

My coil went out. It was fixed within 2 days.

[illnoise]

The dealer gets a "Manufacturer's Statement of Origin" with each bike, they would have had to send it to the DMV to get your title, though your dealer probably shoulda kept a copy of it. If your dealer did the DMV paperwork, or if you bought the bike used, you never saw your MSO.

The Certificate of Origin may be something different, but probably not.

Bb.

[Vic]

The dealer gets a "Manufacturer's Statement of Origin" with each bike, they would have had to send it to the DMV to get your title, though your dealer probably shoulda kept a copy of it. If your dealer did the DMV paperwork, or if you bought the bike used, you never saw your MSO.

The Certificate of Origin may be something different, but probably not.

Bb.

That is good to know, I won't go searching for it at my house. My dealer did the BMV paperwork for me.

Thanks.

[Vic]

My coil went out. It was fixed within 2 days.

The warranty is still valid and I am certain that if your dealer has the part or can get access to the part locally, they will do that.

My situation seems to be a bit more complex because they don't know why the water pump went out and they don't have the part so they are having to get a warranty replacement through Canada.

I thought that folks might be interested in how things go with this process since it seems to be somewhat uncharted waters.

-v

[illnoise]

As contrived as the warranty system seems, it's actually fairly typical and probably on the 'good' side, as everyone seems to at least have established roles in the process. It stinks to have so many people filtering the information back and forth but it helps with accountability and organization in the long run.

And of course it's extra-complicated because of the Canada angle and the oddball problem you're having, but it's promising that they're responding at all, and that they seem to be taking it seriously.

Bb.

[jijifer]

Are you going with the dealer that ran you around for months with your buddy or back to POC? Which of the two were you willing to have put the 175cc kit in the Buddy?

In San Diego we're spoiled (like Cleveland) to have a really great dealer with lots of parts on hand and best of all, some terrific mechanics.

this mud in the hose smacks of them trouble shooting the buddy for months never to get it on the road reliably and HECK! who knows if all works, doesn't, works, doesn't that didn't contribute to the problems you have with your buddy engine now!!

In the very least call another dealer and see if they've experienced this....

[Vic]

Are you going with the dealer that ran you around for months with your buddy or back to POC? Which of the two were you willing to have put the 175cc kit in the Buddy?

In San Diego we're spoiled (like Cleveland) to have a really great dealer with lots of parts on hand and best of all, some terrific mechanics.

this mud in the hose smacks of them trouble shooting the buddy for months never to get it on the road reliably and HECK! who knows if all works, doesn't, works, doesn't that didn't contribute to the problems you have with your buddy engine now!!

In the very least call another dealer and see if they've experienced this....

No, I bought the Sym from someone totally different, the Shop that Shall Remain Nameless is not a Sym dealer and I have not stepped foot back in their shop since then. Separate shop completely from where I got the Sym from.

I have someone that has set up his own shop doing the kit on the Buddy, the shop that he used to work at is also a separate shop that I have never actually dealt with on a personal level. The independent mechanic comes highly recommended by several folks.

It is really confusing, sorry about that. Basically I have:
-The Shop that Shall Remain Nameless, they are a Genuine/Piaggio/Vespa/Triumph/etc dealer that I would not trust my lawnmower to them to change the sparkplug.
-My Sym Dealer, a fairly new single-line dealer, they are family run and are still in the early stages of getting the business up and going, they have one mechanic and they have another guy that helps him out sometimes-the guy that helps out is working on my scooter. My dealer is a friend and part of the group that I ride with.
-There is another Sym dealer in my area, I don't care for the owner, but he is a good mechanic-when he wants to be, I have preferred to not deal with him, I may be changing my mind.
-The independent mechanic that comes highly recommended, he used to work for a Genuine dealer in a shop that is about 3 hours (by car) away from me. This guy actually comes to you to work on your scoot, usually, or he will trailer it away and then trailer it back to your house for you if it needs more extensive work (that is what he is doing for my kit).
-Of course there is POC in Cleveland, which is a full day of driving in my truck to drop a scooter off.
-There are a couple of other dealers, but they are also far enough away that I would have to transport my scooter to them.
-Lastly, there is Iron Pony, they are a single line Yamaha dealer. I had my oil changed there when my dealer could not fit me in, I was very pleasantly surprised by the service I got there.

My Sym dealer is currently swamped with service work, for an oil change you have to schedule it weeks ahead of time. They just have more work than they can handle right now but they are still so new and trying to get the business up on its own two feet they are trying to do a lot of juggling. My dad owned his own business, so I am sensitive to how hard it is to get a small business up and running and stable and those first few years are just really hard. The dealer that I bought my first scooter off of went out of business this spring, they were in business about 2 years. They do not have much in the way of parts on hand, if you go to them you are well advised to get your parts yourself or be prepared to wait for a while.

The whole "mud" in the water pump thing has me baffled (not that it takes much to do that, LOL) but my dealer did tell me that they do not add the coolant to the scooter as part of their prep. She said that they feel pretty sure that there was some kind of contaminant in the coolant, some of the theories that have developed are that it could have been some silicone from the manufacture of the engine that got in where it was not supposed to be (that seems to be the favorite theory), or that there was low quality coolant put in there in the first place-apparently the gaskets and seals are a mess and so perhaps low quality coolant had something in there that ate through some of those materials and what looks like mud is actually that material suspended in the coolant liquid...

I am not so thrilled about the low quality coolant theory and I would have thought that they would have seen other problems with this, if it were the problem. Some contaminant getting in there during the manufacturing process, well, shit happens (why, though, does it happen to ME????? ). It does make me wonder about the fact that my dealer is worried about doing a flush and that voiding the warranty, though. It seems to me that ya ought to be able to do a coolant flush without voiding your warranty, especially if there is concern that the scooters are coming with low quality coolant to begin with, but there is probably something that I don't know about that is the reason for that...

I am frustrated that my dealer left my scooter to sit for 2 weeks before looking at it and that they did not warn me that this was their current schedule before I took it to them (knowing that there is another dealer in the area that might have been able to look at it sooner) and that they took another week before getting the parts that are needed figured out because the mechanic assigned my scooter only works a limited schedule. But, I had a conversation with my dealer at lunch and called back a few hours later to learn that the parts got ordered today and were requested as a rush. I was not able to nail down exactly what they are replacing but it is not the entire water pump, they are getting some parts and are going to rebuild it. Apparently there is some question about what parts are covered under the warranty and what are not.

I do not know how long it will take from here, and was not able to find out if we know if the parts are in stock at this point. If they are in stock, I do not know about them coming over the border and how that all works-I only very rarely order stuff that needs shipped to me that I have to deal with. My dealer said that with NAFTA, it probably won't be too big of a deal and might not be a problem at all.

We will see what happens next.

I am hoping that the mechanic that is doing the big bore kit on my Buddy gets it done soon and that it works out well. I am hoping that the parts for the Sym get to my dealer soon and that it is resolved by getting everything washed out and new stuff going in and then good quality coolant going in.

-v

[JHScoot]

being i am considering purchasing a SYM myself, this does seem something more to....consider when making a choice. the scoot will also be my primary mode of transportation (only other choice will be public), and would not want it down for weeks and weeks waiting on a simple part

in your case it does sound like a loaner is in order, however. or a low cost rental. if there is any such thing as a "low cost" rental...

[Vic]

being i am considering purchasing a SYM myself, this does seem something more to....consider when making a choice. the scoot will also be my primary mode of transportation (only other choice will be public), and would not want it down for weeks and weeks waiting on a simple part

in your case it does sound like a loaner is in order, however. or a low cost rental. if there is any such thing as a "low cost" rental...

It is something to consider, but I really have to doubt that ANY scooter brand is going to be able to guarantee you a whole lot better for every single part that you might need.

There is a current thread over on ModernVespa about trying to get parts... http://www.modernvespa.com/forum/topic7 ... 34152153d0

I remember threads on this forum about trying to get parts and waiting around as they seemed to take the proverbial "slow boat from China".

My dealer and I had a conversation about customer service, time service and what are reasonable expectations, as well as communication. I think that we all understand each other and have agreed to a certain set of expectations and what is reasonable and acceptable to both of us. I am getting an alternate form of transportation today and next week they have a scotoer that they will have fixed up for me to use until either the Buddy is ready or until the Sym is running. This is because of the 3 week wait that I have already endured before they even figured out what parts are needed and ordering those parts, and ONLY becasue of that.

I have tried to word things very carefully so as to not be throwing my dealer under the bus, but I also wanted to make it clear that most of the 3 weeks of the wait is not because of Sym, the Carter Bros situation, or Sym Canada.

I also wanted to let folks know how things are going with trying to make a warranty claim with the way things are currently set up. It does seem to be a bit on the "clunky" side for communications, I did also learn that the CSR that my dealer is talking to has a French accent, so it is entirely possible that one of the reasons that she is handling the communications is that there is a bit of a language barrier that they are dealing with. I am not sure about that, but it seems to be a strong possibility.

I have a riding buddy that rides a Vespa GT and she waited for weeks to get a new head gasket, in that time her scooter was unridable. Waiting for parts is something that we all accept as part of the deal. Criminy, I wanted around for a new motor for the window of my VW Bug for a couple of weeks...

Whatever brand you get, and whomever you get it from, if you are fortunate enough to have a dealer that is well stocked with the more common replacement parts and has a network of other dealers that they can also draw from, you are probably going to spend less time waiting around, but if it is an oddball part or something, ya gotta be prepared to wait.

-v

[juice]

There are two kinds of antifreeze these days . The old greenish one and a newer orange one . They are not compatible and when mixed together they look like mud . If they have been mixed you should flush the system and use the recommended type . Good luck .

[Vic]

There are two kinds of antifreeze these days . The old greenish one and a newer orange one . They are not compatible and when mixed together they look like mud . If they have been mixed you should flush the system and use the recommended type . Good luck .

Good theory, but my scooter ran out of all coolant before any additional antifreeze was added. My dealer's mechanic actually had to call me back after looking up where to find the opening to add or check the level, and they have taken care of all of my work except for one oil change that I had done elsewhere because they could not fit me in. I had them do a "thorough" check of it before I left to ride to Scootergate several weeks ago, also and they changed my front tire.

The initial problem happened on my way home from work on Friday. I called my dealer and talked to the mechanic.

On Saturday, I opened the reservoir for the first time, it was bone dry, I and added the 50/50 mixture that my mechanic told me to but did not even turn the scooter on and the coolant that I had added had drained out by the following day.

I added tapwater on Sunday, and again did not even turn the scooter on, and watched as some of it drained out and by the following morning it was again dry. I called my dealer and talked to the mechanic and he said they would pick it up on Wednesday.

I don't know if there might have been some coolant left in the water pump and if what was in there managed to somehow mix with what I added and create that chemical reaction before it all drained out or not. I don't know if the water pump could even get additional fluid inside of it if the motor has not been turned on.

The problem is that something caused the initial failure of the water pump when I was riding home on that Friday. We do not know what caused that to happen.

I have no idea what type was put in initially, I asked my mechanic which type to get and he told me to get the 50/50 mix. I sent the remainder of the bottle that I had used with the scooter when they picked it up and he told me that was the stuff that he had been talking about when he told me what to get.

My dealer is telling me that flushing the coolant system may, possibly void the warranty. I don't understand that, but that is what they have told me.

-v

[gt1000]

I haven't read the other thread and don't have time to read it right now so this has probably already been mentioned. But, just in case, if you're dealing with "mud" in your coolant and that mud turns out to be engine oil, you are describing the classic symptom of a blown head gasket. If this has already been mentioned a few hundred times, sorry...