Definately don't want a 2t, but...

jmer1234 · Post by **jmer1234** » Sat Aug 28, 2010 3:26 am

So I have a different flavor of a similar question that has been asked on this forum. I have been waiting for the Stella 4t to come out to be my first scooter (read powered 2 wheeled vehicle). I was in my local dealer today to once again finger the merchandise and try to assuage my simmering anxiety.

While there, I was looking at the Buddy Internationals and a Black Jack. Given the Genuine offers going on, plus his current stock, offers started getting made that sounded pretty tempting.

I am looking for a daily commuter, and the tinkering issues concern me a little. Not that a certain amount of tinkering would bother me, but I want something that I know I can get up in the morning and not have to worry about.

Does anybody have any advice for a first time owner who really likes the Stella, but is looking for reliability? Will a Stella really fit that bill if I wait for it?

craho · Post by **craho** » Sat Aug 28, 2010 3:37 am

I am in a similar boat. I wanted a stella, but have decided to go with a 150 buddy. I am thinking about getting a stella or older vespa for a toy later down the line.

But, what kind of out the door prices were they offering for a Intl or Blackjack?

jmer1234 · Post by **jmer1234** » Sat Aug 28, 2010 3:59 am

Let's just say that I don't think he was aware of the offers that Genuine has published, so if I can bring some of that to the table, it would be pretty well worth my while if the Stella has to have a certain agro modifier added to the coolness factor.

BrooktownGeezer · Post by **BrooktownGeezer** » Sat Aug 28, 2010 4:20 am

If you don't want to tinker, and you really need the scoot as a way to get to work and back, go for the Buddy. As has already been mentioned, you can always add a shifter to your stable.

jmer1234 · Post by **jmer1234** » Sat Aug 28, 2010 4:31 am

I should add that I had a British car in college, and am working from that experience. It was an awesome chick magnet; but if I had to rely on it to get to school, I would be homeless now.

Again a certain amount of tinkering will not bother me, but I don't want to be in the situation again where I am turning the key and audibly calling "Big Money, No Whammies" every morning. That will only make me favor my car and relegate the scooter to a fun-time vehicle when I feel like it. I am looking to really cut my petroleum consumption/hydrocarbon output.

ScootLemont · Post by **ScootLemont** » Sat Aug 28, 2010 5:04 am

I feel the need to point out that the 2T Stella is basically a PX 150 (we all realize that right?)
The PX is the best selling Vespa model ever.
Over TWO MILLION PX's have been sold
Let me say that again... two million.
Far more people trust their PX / Stella / LML to get them to work every day than will ever even see a Buddy (I am not knocking the Buddy)

These are not the temperamental or fragile scooters some people make them out to be.
Do people tinker with them? Sure... maybe it's because they can.
Is it the same as owning a Buddy (or any other "modern" design scooter)? Nope & thats the attraction for a lot of people (like me)

Good luck making your choice!
There are worse things in life than having to choose between two great scooters.
I am sure you will enjoy either

jmer1234 · Post by **jmer1234** » Sat Aug 28, 2010 5:10 am

Thanks, that's what I need to hear. I am really just trying to get a feel for what the "tinkering" will entail. Are we talking about periodic adjustments that need to be made, or continuous mechanical problems that leave me high and dry.

That way I can make my decision based on what speaks to me more. Ultimately, that is what will make me want to ride.

ScootLemont · Post by **ScootLemont** » Sat Aug 28, 2010 5:12 am

jmer1234 wrote:I should add that I had a British car in college, and am working from that experience. It was an awesome chick magnet.

I had a red Fiat Spider for 8 years - sold it a couple years ago & then bought my first scooter.

My red Stella gets more attention than the Fiat did (& it got a good amount of attention)

I guess I just have a thing for classic Italian designs in red

ScootLemont · Post by **ScootLemont** » Sat Aug 28, 2010 5:16 am

I bought my Stella this summer but spent a lot of time on the boards trying to figure out how much work it could be - my take is that is periodic adjustments & nothing really major. I needed to adjust my clutch cable after a couple hundred miles - It was much easier than I thought it was going to be & took 15 minutes (now that I know what to do, next time it will be 5 minutes)

There are Stella owners here that have owned their for many years & many thousands of miles & they are more qualified to chime in on this, so hopefully they will.

jmer1234 wrote:Thanks, that's what I need to hear. I am really just trying to get a feel for what the "tinkering" will entail. Are we talking about periodic adjustments that need to be made, or continuous mechanical problems that leave me high and dry.

That way I can make my decision based on what speaks to me more. Ultimately, that is what will make me want to ride.

ScootLemont · Post by **ScootLemont** » Sat Aug 28, 2010 5:19 am

But.... if you are waiting for a 4T then I guess thats a little more unknown as far as reliability is concerned. I doubt that Genuine would put their name on anything that they were not confident was a good product, but of those 2,000,000 PXs out there, none have this 4T engine that the new Stella will have.

Dont want a 2T? Some good deals out there - I LOVE mine

By the way... there is a guy that works at Scooterworks in Chicago but lives out in the 'burbs by me - he rides 30 miles each way every day on his Stella (and thats an ugly drive in from the 'burbs)

jmer1234 · Post by **jmer1234** » Sat Aug 28, 2010 8:50 pm

Cable adjustments every couple hundred miles does not concern me. That type of stuff gives you a warning. I am mostly concerned about flt not starting for mystery reasons at any given attempt.

ScootLemont · Post by **ScootLemont** » Sun Aug 29, 2010 2:20 am

If stellas often didn't start for any reason, I think they would not be as popular as they are.

Its not like these are yugos
Its a very well put together scooter imo

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Sun Aug 29, 2010 7:31 pm

As Aviator47 has said many times on the MV NSM board:

A significant majority of the "maintenance" on a shifty Vespa is pure and simple voluntary tinkering. A significant portion of the remaining "maintenance" is as a direct result of that voluntary tinkering.

As I am one of those people that has a hard time NOT tinkering I have found his statement to be spot on!

This is a pretty good thread regarding reliability ov Vintage and Classic Vespas
http://www.modernvespa.com/forum/topic70964

KRUSTYburger · Post by **KRUSTYburger** » Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:14 pm

I gotta say, I was faced with your same concerns about 2 years ago, and I went with the Buddy for the practicality/efficiency. Of course, at the time the 4T Stella was only a dream in our hearts & minds... I love my Buddy 125 and it has never had a single issue. I beat the crap out of it too and it keeps on truckin'.

On the other hand, you will likely never get over the looks of the bike you REALLY wanted to begin with, which is probably why I later bought a used Vespa P200 and rebuilt it. It's a good-looking piece of scooter but it's also quarky and can be a pain in the butt. In your case though the 4T Stella will be brand new as opposed to 30 years old. Shoot, the only things that cause me trouble on a daily basis are that it sometimes takes several kicks to start and it doesn't have a fuel gauge. Those don't apply to the Stella 4T. I think you would be happy with either one, but if you really want the Stella I wouldn't let the supposed "high maintenance" aspect deter you. Just go for it.

tbonestone · Post by **tbonestone** » Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:35 pm

My two cents... I ride up to 80mi a day on a stella for my commute. Get to know the carb, cable adjusters, and how to change a tire. My first flat i looked like a monkey humping a football... Now I can do the swap in 20min or less. You gotta ask yourself how much do you wanna take on. Me it's a labor of love. Once i sold my stella to a buddy and i shed a few tears saying good bye. I bought her back, and now I promissed to never let her go.

loodieboy · Post by **loodieboy** » Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:03 pm

I fell in love with the Stella but went with 'the more sensible choice' and bought a Buddy. One year later I bought the Stella, and the Buddy will be hitting Craig's List.

Go with your heart.

shawnie · Post by **shawnie** » Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:27 pm

I too fell in love with the Stella but went with the Buddy b/c of being nervous about the shifting. After a year I went and got a Stella. I love both of them in different ways BUT I choose to ride the Stella everyday. I've had it for over a year and the only tinkering I've had to do is to disable the kill switch (which was very easy). I agree, go with your heart!

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:24 pm

Stellas will require some maintenance, just like any other scooter. Tinkering is optional.

My Stella 4T has been solid as rock for 1300 miles. Oil's been changed once, and the cables needed adjustment shortly after I got it. (It was a demo model so the shifter had been yanked all over.) You'll probably also want to disconnect the evap hose in the back—very easy.

And that's that.

It's so tinker-free I think I may need an SS180 to rebuild or something like that I can really play with!

Lovelandstella · Post by **Lovelandstella** » Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:27 pm

ericalm wrote:Stellas will require some maintenance, just like any other scooter. Tinkering is optional.

My Stella 4T has been solid as rock for 1300 miles. Oil's been changed once, and the cables needed adjustment shortly after I got it. (It was a demo model so the shifter had been yanked all over.) You'll probably also want to disconnect the evap hose in the back—very easy.

And that's that.

It's so tinker-free I think I may need an SS180 to rebuild or something like that I can really play with!

a little off the subject, I know, but:
oil change on a stella!? I think you are the 1st one! what was it like!?

evap hose? the one behind the gas tank and in the way of the rear rack?yanked? pros? cons? please elaborate.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:08 pm

Oil change: It was kinda like opening the plug and letting all the oil out.

My newbie lesson: No actual oil filter. It's just a screen. Old skool!

The evap system is this ridiculous setup required solely in the state of CA but installed on all new scoots coming into the country that get sold here. It's alleged purpose is to recover vapors from the gas tank. CA has very specific requirements for how these systems work, but on many scooters—largely due to where the gas tanks are located—these do nothing but cause performance problems. The first piece of advice you get when buying many scooters is disconnecting the evap hose. (IIRC, that was the first technical article on ModernVespa!)

Technically, it's illegal to do this in CA. That's why when the '08 Buddy 150s were having vapor lock issues, dealers out of CA could just pop a vented gas cap on but in CA there was a kit to fix it. (Most owners I know in CA just went with the vented gas cap anyways.)

Anyone worried about emissions should have no qualms about disconnecting this thing on their Stella 4T. The emissions numbers on this scoot are way below most other models and all state and federal limits.

I'll have a tutorial for doing this up after I post my monster 4T review. Not that I've done this. It's for demonstration purposes only in the state of CA.

jmer1234 · Post by **jmer1234** » Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:56 pm

Thanks everyone. I have been on the road for a few days and am only now getting caught up on the tread.

I completely understand going with the heart. As a cyclist, you have so many options to choose from for a ride, that I often tell others looking for a bike to pick a price range and then find a bike that speaks to you. Ultimately, that is what is going to make you want to get out and ride.

I think at the moment, I'll wait. I predict that the tinkering issues will not be a concern since I plan on keeping this pretty stock. Maybe the EPA/Customs delay is providence as I have had to take care of some house repairs of late, and need a moment to recharge the financial reserves.

Eric-I look forward to the instructional posting.

cmac · Post by **cmac** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:57 am

I think Buddy's are fugly

jmer1234 · Post by **jmer1234** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:32 pm

I wouldn't say they're fugly, I really like the way they look. But, I don't like me on their narrow profile. When I sit on one, I naturally gravitate to hanging my knees out to the sides. I am not particularly tall, so I do not know if this is just a function of low seat height. The broad leg shield of the Stella is more appealing to me.

jmer1234 · Post by **jmer1234** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:37 pm

On secondary note, I had a brain storm/fart yesterday. Given the great deals available on 2ts right now, I am wondering what the resale value will be in a few months. I started thinking about trying to work a deal with my local shop to take a 2t off their hands for a few months, and then trade it in on a 4t when they are finally here. I am thinking that we have a good wait in store still; once the scooters hit customs again, I predict that the EPA will want to tear them apart since they failed the first time, mechanical issue or not.

Thoughts anyone? What is a typical trade in value on a low mileage 2t, especially if I have the shop take care of all scheduled maintenance?

bdonay · Post by **bdonay** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:54 pm

KBB says the retail value=$2655 and the trade-in value=$1790. I can assure you that the dealer will not give you the retail value cause thats what they want to sell the bike for after buying it back from you. I tried this once before and it didn't work out the way I planned it in my head. I tried to trade in my wife's buddy 150 for a new stella 2t, and at the time the dealer had a cash back incentive going on for the stella. I thought it would be an even trade considering the buddy had less than 100 miles on it and the stella, with the incentive, was a couple hundred cheaper than the buddy. Not so much. The dealer low balled me on the buddy, basically giving me a little more than the trade in value. So with all the set up and misc charges for the stella and the left over amount owed for the buddy being financed, the stella was actually more expensive than it would have been if I had bought it out right. Basically, the dealer wants to make a profit on the bike they originally sold you and the one you are going to want in another couple of months. Sorry to be a downer.

jmer1234 · Post by **jmer1234** » Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:35 pm

Sure, I would expect to get around trade in value. At this point, I would chalk the difference up as a lease, to assuage my mounting impatience. I know I would not break even by any stretch of the imagination. I am just trying to predict what the trade in value will be once the new Stellas hit the market. How much of a hit would I be taking? Of course I am forgetting that I would be paying tt&l and delivery fees twice if I can not get that negotiated.

KRUSTYburger · Post by **KRUSTYburger** » Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:33 am

cmac wrote:I think Buddy's are fugly

YOU SHUT YO MOUTH!

jmer1234 wrote:When I sit on one, I naturally gravitate to hanging my knees out to the sides. I am not particularly tall, so I do not know if this is just a function of low seat height.

I do this too for some reason, on any scooter... it's just more comfortable for me. Mainly because when I try to hold my legs together the muscles get fatigued.

loodieboy · Post by **loodieboy** » Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:54 pm

I tend to ride duck-footed when I ride which is weird because I am slightly pigeon toed.

Anyway, jmer1234, my prediction is if you buy a 2T now with the intention of trading it in or selling it later to get a 4T, you'll probably wind up just keeping the 2T either through inertia or quickly acquired affection for the quirky beast.

jmer1234 · Post by **jmer1234** » Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:48 pm

loodieboy wrote:Anyway, jmer1234, my prediction is if you buy a 2T now with the intention of trading it in or selling it later to get a 4T, you'll probably wind up just keeping the 2T either through inertia or quickly acquired affection for the quirky beast.

Yea... that is one fear I have. I am really holding out for the 140 mpg. I keep having to remind myself of that.

Lovelandstella · Post by **Lovelandstella** » Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:20 pm

jmer1234 wrote: ... I am really holding out for the 140 mpg. I keep having to remind myself of that.

+1

Silver Streak · Post by **Silver Streak** » Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:40 pm

Lovelandstella wrote:
jmer1234 wrote: ... I am really holding out for the 140 mpg. I keep having to remind myself of that.
+1

Dream on!

I suggest you ask Eric what kind of mileage he's getting under real-world conditions. I suspect it is very good as 150cc scooters go, but nowhere near 140 mpg.

Prove me wrong...

Post by **ericalm** » Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:51 am

I've been pretty lax about keeping track of my mileage… as in I usually don't bother. I have the iPhone apps and fuelly.com and have intended to track it but usually do one fill up, then forget next time or get in a hurry. Also, I'm unsure of the accuracy of the odometer on the Stella and GPS is one extra step.

BUT, it just so happens that a few weeks ago, I filled my tank and put in exactly one gallon. Just so happened I knew when and where I'd last filled up and exactly where I'd been since then (rally that weekend meant one very long day, then the next couple days I'd been to get coffee and the store). So I hopped on Google Maps and charted it all out.

About 120 miles, which included some pretty serious riding in twisties, hills, flat WOT riding, etc.

That's not super-precise, but none of the (convenient) means of tracking your MPGs are.

Ironically, I've run out of gas on the Stella once already and came very close another time because I just let it go and go and it's got quite a ways to go when the gas gauge gets into the red. (I keep the petcock on reserve most of the time.)

jmer1234 · Post by **jmer1234** » Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:28 pm

120 mpg is what I am talking about! That's good enough for government work.

Silver Streak · Post by **Silver Streak** » Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:54 pm

That's great, Eric!

I was expecting maybe 100, but 120 or so is fantastic under real-world conditions.

Lovelandstella · Post by **Lovelandstella** » Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:11 pm

Silver Streak wrote:That's great, Eric!

I was expecting maybe 100, but 120 or so is fantastic under real-world conditions.

anything over 100 is just fine in my book!

cmac · Post by **cmac** » Fri Sep 10, 2010 2:16 am

To Eric, Why do you ride with it on reserve? Try riding with it on, then when it feels like it's about to stall, switch it to reserve and then you will know how much gas you have left.

Lovelandstella · Post by **Lovelandstella** » Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:49 pm

cmac wrote:To Eric, Why do you ride with it on reserve? Try riding with it on, then when it feels like it's about to stall, switch it to reserve and then you will know how much gas you have left.

a little off the subject, I'm sorry. but can you switch to reserve while riding? mine is REALLY difficult to move while the scoot is parked.

Post by **illnoise** » Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:50 pm

Lovelandstella wrote:
cmac wrote:To Eric, Why do you ride with it on reserve? Try riding with it on, then when it feels like it's about to stall, switch it to reserve and then you will know how much gas you have left.
a little off the subject, I'm sorry. but can you switch to reserve while riding? mine is REALLY difficult to move while the scoot is parked.

yes, it's safe to do if you can.

If you can't physically do it, you can adjust how tight it is where the post meets the fuel tap, but that's a bit of a drag to get to, especially with the oil tank/sightglass.

lmyers · Post by **lmyers** » Sun Sep 12, 2010 2:57 pm

Lovelandstella wrote:
cmac wrote:To Eric, Why do you ride with it on reserve? Try riding with it on, then when it feels like it's about to stall, switch it to reserve and then you will know how much gas you have left.
a little off the subject, I'm sorry. but can you switch to reserve while riding? mine is REALLY difficult to move while the scoot is parked.

It becomes VERY easy if your fuel gauge stops working.

KRUSTYburger · Post by **KRUSTYburger** » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:52 pm

lmyers wrote:
Lovelandstella wrote:a little off the subject, I'm sorry. but can you switch to reserve while riding? mine is REALLY difficult to move while the scoot is parked.
It becomes VERY easy if your fuel gauge stops working.

Or if you never had one to begin with! I just try to keep track mentally of about how far I've gone since the last fill-up, then check it if I'm not sure. When in doubt I just top it off.

lmyers · Post by **lmyers** » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:54 pm

KRUSTYburger wrote:
lmyers wrote:
Lovelandstella wrote:a little off the subject, I'm sorry. but can you switch to reserve while riding? mine is REALLY difficult to move while the scoot is parked.
It becomes VERY easy if your fuel gauge stops working.
Or if you never had one to begin with! I just try to keep track mentally of about how far I've gone since the last fill-up, then check it if I'm not sure. When in doubt I just top it off.

Totally OT, but are you going to Pebble Beach?

KRUSTYburger · Post by **KRUSTYburger** » Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:22 pm

lmyers wrote:Totally OT, but are you going to Pebble Beach?

Me? I dunno maybe... that depends on what the heck you're talking about!

Sorry I don't know where/what that is.

lmyers · Post by **lmyers** » Sun Sep 12, 2010 6:13 pm

er.... cocoa beach. I'm getting my passion and former hobby confused. Again.

Post by **polianarchy** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:11 pm

lmyers wrote:er.... cocoa beach. I'm getting my passion and former hobby confused. Again.

http://usscooteralliance.com/index.htm

JunkyardDog · Post by **JunkyardDog** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:38 pm

Ok, I didn't read the whole thread, but I get the general idea. If you need RELIABLE daily transportation, do not get a Stella. They are beautiful scooters, and very fun to ride. I bought a new one about 3 weeks ago. It broke down and left me stranded 30 miles from home, with only 389 miles on it (yes, I was following the break in instructions). I have yet to get it fixed. I love to tinker, and the Stella will be great for that (kinda like my old '66 Triumph Bonneville) it rarely ran, but was a blast when it did. The Stella 2T is by far the coolest new scooter you can buy. But cool won't get you to work or school and back every day. I would definitely go for the Buddy. I definitely would not consider a Stella 4T. They are new and unproven, and if they require as much work as the 2T, it will be a LOT harder to keep it going. 2 strokes are very simple, and can be rebuilt by an average mechanically inclined person. Not so with most OHC 4 strokes. Get the Buddy now, then look for a used Stella later if you want something to tinker with, and the feel of riding a real vintage scooter, because that's exactly what the Stella is. It is NOT a modern copy of a vintage scooter, built with modern materials and manufacturing techniques, it's the real thing. They are probably still using the same tooling that Vespa did to build it. Plus you have to consider it is built in India. Jerry.

lmyers · Post by **lmyers** » Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:56 pm

polianarchy wrote:
lmyers wrote:er.... cocoa beach. I'm getting my passion and former hobby confused. Again.
http://usscooteralliance.com/index.htm

Thanks, PI

Post by **ericalm** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 12:29 am

JunkyardDog wrote:Ok, I didn't read the whole thread, but I get the general idea. If you need RELIABLE daily transportation, do not get a Stella. They are beautiful scooters, and very fun to ride. I bought a new one about 3 weeks ago. It broke down and left me stranded 30 miles from home, with only 389 miles on it (yes, I was following the break in instructions). I have yet to get it fixed. I love to tinker, and the Stella will be great for that (kinda like my old '66 Triumph Bonneville) it rarely ran, but was a blast when it did. The Stella 2T is by far the coolest new scooter you can buy. But cool won't get you to work or school and back every day. I would definitely go for the Buddy. I definitely would not consider a Stella 4T. They are new and unproven, and if they require as much work as the 2T, it will be a LOT harder to keep it going. 2 strokes are very simple, and can be rebuilt by an average mechanically inclined person. Not so with most OHC 4 strokes. Get the Buddy now, then look for a used Stella later if you want something to tinker with, and the feel of riding a real vintage scooter, because that's exactly what the Stella is. It is NOT a modern copy of a vintage scooter, built with modern materials and manufacturing techniques, it's the real thing. They are probably still using the same tooling that Vespa did to build it. Plus you have to consider it is built in India. Jerry.

Do you know why your scooter broke down? Did you call roadside assistance?

Why fix yourself when it's under warranty?

Silver Streak · Post by **Silver Streak** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 12:49 am

JunkyardDog wrote:Ok, I didn't read the whole thread, but I get the general idea. If you need RELIABLE daily transportation, do not get a Stella. They are beautiful scooters, and very fun to ride. I bought a new one about 3 weeks ago. It broke down and left me stranded 30 miles from home, with only 389 miles on it (yes, I was following the break in instructions). I have yet to get it fixed. I love to tinker, and the Stella will be great for that (kinda like my old '66 Triumph Bonneville) it rarely ran, but was a blast when it did. The Stella 2T is by far the coolest new scooter you can buy. But cool won't get you to work or school and back every day. I would definitely go for the Buddy. I definitely would not consider a Stella 4T. They are new and unproven, and if they require as much work as the 2T, it will be a LOT harder to keep it going. 2 strokes are very simple, and can be rebuilt by an average mechanically inclined person. Not so with most OHC 4 strokes. Get the Buddy now, then look for a used Stella later if you want something to tinker with, and the feel of riding a real vintage scooter, because that's exactly what the Stella is. It is NOT a modern copy of a vintage scooter, built with modern materials and manufacturing techniques, it's the real thing. They are probably still using the same tooling that Vespa did to build it. Plus you have to consider it is built in India. Jerry.

While you are certainly entitled to your opinion, I find your logic regarding the potential relative reliability of the 2T and 4T Stellas to be on rather shaky ground. Outside of the engine, the 2T and 4T are essentially identical, so there is little basis for condemning the 4T model to a greater extent than the 2T there. 2T engines are certainly simpler, but that doesn't make them more reliable or more durable. My experience in 45+ years of wrenching on both two-strokes and four-strokes convinces me that 2Ts are far flightier creatures and generally live shorter lives. They are far more sensitive to variations in A/F mixture, eat spark plugs for breakfast, and require more attention to operating technique (coasting downhill, for example) than 4Ts. When was the last time you experienced an air-cooled 4T seizing? And wrenching on a carbureted, single-lung, 2-valve four-stroke engine ain't exactly rocket science... they are pretty damn simple. Further, the 4T engine is a new design, compared to the 30-or-more year-old design of the LML 2T.

My perception of better reliability (along with cleaner emissions and better fuel economy) was one of the reasons I ordered a 4T Stella when I decided I wanted a shifty.

JunkyardDog · Post by **JunkyardDog** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 6:55 pm

ericalm wrote:
JunkyardDog wrote:Ok, I didn't read the whole thread, but I get the general idea. If you need RELIABLE daily transportation, do not get a Stella. They are beautiful scooters, and very fun to ride. I bought a new one about 3 weeks ago. It broke down and left me stranded 30 miles from home, with only 389 miles on it (yes, I was following the break in instructions). I have yet to get it fixed. I love to tinker, and the Stella will be great for that (kinda like my old '66 Triumph Bonneville) it rarely ran, but was a blast when it did. The Stella 2T is by far the coolest new scooter you can buy. But cool won't get you to work or school and back every day. I would definitely go for the Buddy. I definitely would not consider a Stella 4T. They are new and unproven, and if they require as much work as the 2T, it will be a LOT harder to keep it going. 2 strokes are very simple, and can be rebuilt by an average mechanically inclined person. Not so with most OHC 4 strokes. Get the Buddy now, then look for a used Stella later if you want something to tinker with, and the feel of riding a real vintage scooter, because that's exactly what the Stella is. It is NOT a modern copy of a vintage scooter, built with modern materials and manufacturing techniques, it's the real thing. They are probably still using the same tooling that Vespa did to build it. Plus you have to consider it is built in India. Jerry.
Do you know why your scooter broke down? Did you call roadside assistance?

Why fix yourself when it's under warranty?

I was out riding at about 40 mph, putting break in miles on it, and it suddenly lost power. My first thought was an engine seizure, so I pulled in the clutch and coasted to a stop. The engine was still idling, and sounded fine, so I shifted back into first, gave it some throttle to take off, and....nothing. It still idled, but would not rev at all. All I had was the tool kit that came with it, but I removed the airbox cover, made sure the throttle and choke cables were ok and properly adjusted (they were) You could look into the carburetor and see the slide open and close, and gas spray out the nozzle when you opened the throttle, but engine speed did not increase. I pulled out both jets, they looked fine, so I put them back. I checked the spark plug, it was also fine.

I did not have the roadside assistance paperwork with me, not only that, but I have a roadside assistance plan that covers all my bikes, and didn't have the card for that with me either (my wallet had gone through the washing machine the day before, and I took everything out so it could dry). So I called my former father in law, he came and hauled me and the scooter back home, after about a 3 hour wait beside the road.

When I got it home, I decided to find out what the problem was (I am a professional auto mechanic) I removed the carb, completely disassembled it, cleaned it, and again found nothing wrong, though in the process I did manage to bend the idle mixture screw trying to adjust it through the opening in the airbox, and the rubber tip broke off the needle valve. I ordered a new mixture screw and needle valve, and if it still won't run, I will take it back to the dealer. Not sure just how far I trust the dealers service department. Oh, I also did a compression check, got 140+, and confirmed that the exhaust was not plugged up.

So the exhaust system is ok, the compression is ok, the ignition system is ok, I am getting plenty of gas to the carburetor, the only possible thing I can think of is something in the carb, and this scooter has one of the simplest carbs I've ever seen. I'm wondering if one of the passages in the carb might be plugged with a piece of metal from the casting process or something. There just really isn't much to go wrong with such a simple engine that could not be easily found, and being a mechanic myself, I'd rather fix it myself unless it turns out to be something really expensive, and so far, it doesn't look that way. I would appreciate any ideas, or anything I may be overlooking. While I am not new to 2 strokes, I am new to the Stella. Jerry.

JunkyardDog · Post by **JunkyardDog** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:18 pm

Silver Streak wrote:
JunkyardDog wrote:Ok, I didn't read the whole thread, but I get the general idea. If you need RELIABLE daily transportation, do not get a Stella. They are beautiful scooters, and very fun to ride. I bought a new one about 3 weeks ago. It broke down and left me stranded 30 miles from home, with only 389 miles on it (yes, I was following the break in instructions). I have yet to get it fixed. I love to tinker, and the Stella will be great for that (kinda like my old '66 Triumph Bonneville) it rarely ran, but was a blast when it did. The Stella 2T is by far the coolest new scooter you can buy. But cool won't get you to work or school and back every day. I would definitely go for the Buddy. I definitely would not consider a Stella 4T. They are new and unproven, and if they require as much work as the 2T, it will be a LOT harder to keep it going. 2 strokes are very simple, and can be rebuilt by an average mechanically inclined person. Not so with most OHC 4 strokes. Get the Buddy now, then look for a used Stella later if you want something to tinker with, and the feel of riding a real vintage scooter, because that's exactly what the Stella is. It is NOT a modern copy of a vintage scooter, built with modern materials and manufacturing techniques, it's the real thing. They are probably still using the same tooling that Vespa did to build it. Plus you have to consider it is built in India. Jerry.
While you are certainly entitled to your opinion, I find your logic regarding the potential relative reliability of the 2T and 4T Stellas to be on rather shaky ground. Outside of the engine, the 2T and 4T are essentially identical, so there is little basis for condemning the 4T model to a greater extent than the 2T there. 2T engines are certainly simpler, but that doesn't make them more reliable or more durable. My experience in 45+ years of wrenching on both two-strokes and four-strokes convinces me that 2Ts are far flightier creatures and generally live shorter lives. They are far more sensitive to variations in A/F mixture, eat spark plugs for breakfast, and require more attention to operating technique (coasting downhill, for example) than 4Ts. When was the last time you experienced an air-cooled 4T seizing? And wrenching on a carbureted, single-lung, 2-valve four-stroke engine ain't exactly rocket science... they are pretty damn simple. Further, the 4T engine is a new design, compared to the 30-or-more year-old design of the LML 2T.

My perception of better reliability (along with cleaner emissions and better fuel economy) was one of the reasons I ordered a 4T Stella when I decided I wanted a shifty.

While I am new to the Stella, I am not new to 2 strokes. Before getting into scooters, I was into 2 stroke mopeds. I've built, rebuilt, and modified dozens of moped engines. I have toured over 20,000 miles on mopeds. I have literally rebuilt moped engines beside the road. (try that when the cam chain breaks on your 4T) I have put over 10,000 completely trouble free miles on a 50cc moped engine without even having the head off. Modern 2 strokes are extremely reliable. I would trust one to go anywhere. The problem with the Stella is that it is not only not modern in design (I can't find anything wrong with it's basic design), but is built out of poor quality materials using poor quality manufacturing techniques. The same thing applies to the Royal Enfield Bullet motorcycle. They have recently done a major redesign on that, but the main problem still remains. Poor build quality and materials. For example, why is a Stella 2T more likely to seize or have a crank failure than a modern 2T? Basically the same design, the difference is in quality.

I think it would be great to have a high quality Stella 2T, one that was reliable and didn't break down as long as it was maintained properly. Read the "safety issues" thread on stellaspeed.com. Virtually every one of those failures was related to poor quality control rather than design.

Take Chinese scooters (please take every single one of them and dump them in the middle of the ocean somewhere). The GY6 is an excellent design if built right. The Chinese scooters fall apart because of build quality. I see no reason why it would not be possible to build an exact copy of a Chinese scooter (which are themselves copies), but build it right, and it should be just as reliable as a Genuine, Vespa, Kymco, Honda, or Yamaha.

And yes, all of this is my own personal opinion, I am not stating it as fact, just the way I feel about it. I am a mechanic, not an engineer. Unfortunately, I have to work on a lot of junk designed by engineers. Jerry.