New SYM Fiddle clone from Lance Powersports???

[pocphil]

I'm with Beeb 100% on this one. I'll beat SYM or Lance's reduced price on either of the 2 (red or green) Fiddle 125's I have left in my inventory. Seriously...if someone is interested in getting one...I want them out of my shop...ASAP.

Oh, and here's a gift for anyone paying attention:

From the Folks at ICEBEAR (we take awful chinese scooters and make them into trikes) copyrights be damned we've got T-rex, Helix, Morphous, G-max, you name it, we'll bolt more wheels to it....but this is by far my favorite.

http://www.icebearatv.com/ROAD-WARRIOR,CHINA.htm

[JHScoot]

haha that thing is hideous

also, is the Fiddle II a good scooter, not a good scooter, not a great scooter? how come NO love for this scooter?

i might be riding one right now if they had been Cali approved b4

and, if SYM isn't "building" for Lance, shouldn't they have a small team of lawyers suing somebody's pants off by now? i mean the way the Cali Classic is being promoted by dealers, you would think it was a marriage made in heaven, this SYM / Lance / Joker scooter

check this out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptLcRR6GltI

[ericalm]

That's always been my understanding, Eric, and I'm no conspiracy theorist, but now I'm wondering if SYM knew more about those Viennas than they let on. IIRC, they said a third-party Chinese intermediary was trying to sell them to Lance behind their back, but what if SYM (allegedly not happy with Carter) secretly saw a backdoor into the US market, then backed down when they got called on it and passed the blame off on the middleman as they publicly 'made up' with Carter Brothers. And maybe now, with Carter on the ropes, they're saying "Screw it, let's sell Chinese SYM-branded bikes through other channels"

The dealer (or Lance) being full of s**t is probably a more likely explanation, but on the other hand SYM has made it clear they want a bigger piece of the US market, and maybe like TGB, they're looking for ways to circumvent their current US importer.

Time will tell, in any case, I'd be pretty skeptical of buying a Lance, even if it had a SYM VIN.

Poking around online, I think that there may be a little more to this than I thought. According to several posts, SYM has partnered with Lance, which no longer buys from the Chinese-based manufacturers. That could be one reason the Cali Classic is the only scooter on the Lance site.

So… I dunno what's what. I suppose it's also possible that SYM (Taiwan) has been upfront about this from the get go and Carter Bros. (SYM-USA) has been the ones saying it's not the case because they don't want to get undercut by the competition.

Or… ugh… No one gets the benefit of the doubt on this one…

[illnoise]

Or… ugh… No one gets the benefit of the doubt on this one…

Exactly. Weird. More bad news for Carter, and I'll be surprised if SYM is any happier with Lance.

Bb.

[illnoise]

If I were to look at my own freaking notes of stuff I haven't got around to posting yet, I already KNEW about this!

http://www.scooter-station.com/Sym-Allo-125.html

SYM IS selling a Joker-ish clone in Europe. And it matches the Lance bike! I just assumed it was Chinese when I saw it, and would still bet it mostly is, even if it has a Taiwanese VIN. But who knows? Who cares? Ick. Even if it's Taiwanese quality, it still looks like a Chinese Joker knockoff, and the joker was ugly to begin with!

Crazy.

[Wheelz]

SYM IS selling a Joker-ish clone in Europe. And it matches the Lance bike! I just assumed it was Chinese when I saw it, and would still bet it mostly is, even if it has a Taiwanese VIN. But who knows? Who cares? Ick. Even if it's Taiwanese quality, it still looks like a Chinese Joker knockoff, and the joker was ugly to begin with!

Crazy.

Thank you! I thought I was the only one that thought that scooter was god awful.

Any of em, even the joker, I mean sure if it really was a classic scoot then it might have some cache, like a pug, it's ugly but so ugly it's cute.
Those scooters just stank of trying to hard.

[JHScoot]

If I were to look at my own freaking notes of stuff I haven't got around to posting yet, I already KNEW about this!

http://www.scooter-station.com/Sym-Allo-125.html

SYM IS selling a Joker-ish clone in Europe. And it matches the Lance bike! I just assumed it was Chinese when I saw it, and would still bet it mostly is, even if it has a Taiwanese VIN. But who knows? Who cares? Ick. Even if it's Taiwanese quality, it still looks like a Chinese Joker knockoff, and the joker was ugly to begin with!

Crazy.

Translation

In Sym, supply 125 is the least bloated. With over 10 models, the Taiwanese manufacturer affects all segments available to holders of driving license. However, thanks to its GTS scooters and first prizes he has earned a solid reputation. In its neo-retro range, Mio 100 (€ 1849) is a box, especially with women, on the Fiddle 125, he managed to emerge as a serious alternative to the Vespa LX (€ 3,549) to only € 1,599. To survey the city, the vintage style is fly. So to better serve in this field, now produces the Sym Hello. While its overall shape is not unprecedented, because we have already observed several motorbikes from China, themselves pale copies of fire Honda Shadow 125. However, Sym here brings the seriousness it lacked other productions, both on the architecture of the machine as its engine. Moreover, as for all of its range, the company guarantees its 11th 125cc scooter over a period of 2 years. That is reassuring those who remain skeptical about the quality of cheap motorbikes.

Catchy, the look of Hello is undeniably its first asset. We can see first a general form own scooters vintage 60s. Bottom line, some would say "low rider", curvaceous, it is in the delicacy and relaxation. From the front, his friendly mug identified through the sheer volume of his fairing and its flagship single atypical. The accessory overlooks a cockpit that bespeaks of conduct rather relaxed. Three small chrome counters manage information base and steal the show, the handlebars "cow horn" is assessed here in all its breadth. Not as much as the Vespa Scooter Longhorn Station you have already submitted, however, the accessory right size here is remarkable for its original form and reasonable. The chrome finish is yours (just like the handles, levers, mirrors and stalk switches that étincèlent). We also note the quality of the tee that holds the management. In contrast, other parts appear to us less worked. For example is the texture of the interior plastics which is a little "cheap". The surface of the saddle is not bad, but there is some unsightly bulges on the attachment points. The son also exceed the fairing (at the right footrest) and the paint applied to all plastic is not of great quality.

From the outset, the driving position proves confusing. The saddle perched only 755 mm of soil is available to all, but the shape of the handlebar disorder. Ergonomics is indisputably well thought out, however, it seems quite unconventional to have to "ride" on a scooter in the manner of a biker on his bike iron ... In scoot ', it's not used to remove all the arms! Fortunately, the bending of the insert still allows members to keep close to the chest and bend them just enough to feel at ease. The large radius of the Allo (measured at 2.74 m) also allows to move without difficulty stopping. The seat is correct. The pusser regret perhaps a slight lack of softness or a return not sufficiently pronounced to the driver. However, everyone will agree on the care with which the passenger is processed. For comfort, it has indeed independent footrest and handhold well arranged.

By a slight pressure on the button activating the starter, mechanical snorts confidentially. And if by chance the battery would fall into the road, do not panic! The Allo has a kick back, insurance never get trapped. At the start, the gear is not easy to tame. At ground level and equipped with handlebars that famous "cow horn", it is clumsy at low speed. But fortunately, this scooter has the mechanical Sym Fiddle particularly energetic start. So, like Hello is also fairly light, it does not pay too much. Lost in the middle of traffic, we still prefer it to other two-wheelers are more compact and agile. Its engine propels it up properly in town as 80 km / h, its handling does not suffer from any criticism. If it takes you to troubleshoot a few times on freeways, they are clearly not his favorite playground. A speed "high" (we pushed to its maximum speed 91 km / h on the clock), its stability is not the best and its management seem too strong to inspire complete confidence. In contrast to moderate speed and angle, we found stable. Be careful though to turn left. The ground clearance is very limited because of a side stand placed too low.

Behind the wheel of this scooter noticed, it must thus be limited to routes into the heart of the city. Here, the part-cycle is well proportioned. Small rims 12 'inch borrowed Fiddle ensure proper stability, and through the disc 190 mm front, you stop dead in front of the fashionable places. The suspensions are also well suited to urban surfaces. The fork, also observed on the Fiddle, the roughness of the bitumen cash and his counterpart back showed a lot of flexibility. Abusing its qualities in the city, its low fuel consumption also (measured at 3.6 l/100 km), but do not be drawn into a frenzy of shopping! The Allo has a wide flat floor and a catcher for your tote bag, but his chest is proving very narrow. Half-Inkjet there not even fit. This is not the most practical range of Taiwan, but after all is this really what we want? To show off as they should and should not be found "on the floor" because of an uncertain craft technique, this will Sym ample case. And as the newcomer appears to only € 1,799 with 2 year warranty, it promises to Allo the same future as his elders. Agreed!
More Less

* Look
* Price
* Mechanical simplicity and reliability
* Low seat height



* Minisafe
* Rear drum inefficient
* Automatic return sidestand

[JunkyardDog]

I'm not getting it. The Lance Cali Classic and the SYM fiddle are nothing alike, other than they are similar size scooters. I was able to look at both at my local dealer. The Lance Cali Classic is a smaller (and more expensive) version of the Lance Vintage, which is an unabashed clone of the Honda Joker. The Fiddle looks nothing like the Joker. The bars are different, the speedo is different, the seat is different, and the whole rear section of the bodywork is different. The build quality on the Cali Classic appeared quite good, though not as good as the Buddy or Vino 125, but definitely better than typical Chinese standards. It is a gorgeous scooter in red or black, but a bit small for me.


I have always been a fan of the Honda Joker, and wish someone would build a high quality copy, since Honda is obviously not going to sell it here. Jerry.

[JunkyardDog]

SYM IS selling a Joker-ish clone in Europe. And it matches the Lance bike! I just assumed it was Chinese when I saw it, and would still bet it mostly is, even if it has a Taiwanese VIN. But who knows? Who cares? Ick. Even if it's Taiwanese quality, it still looks like a Chinese Joker knockoff, and the joker was ugly to begin with!

Crazy.

Thank you! I thought I was the only one that thought that scooter was god awful.

Any of em, even the joker, I mean sure if it really was a classic scoot then it might have some cache, like a pug, it's ugly but so ugly it's cute.
Those scooters just stank of trying to hard.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I love the Jokers looks, and wish I had one, but all you can get here are cheap Chinese copies that fall apart. Jerry.

[ericalm]

I'm not getting it. The Lance Cali Classic and the SYM fiddle are nothing alike, other than they are similar size scooters. I was able to look at both at my local dealer. The Lance Cali Classic is a smaller (and more expensive) version of the Lance Vintage, which is an unabashed clone of the Honda Joker. The Fiddle looks nothing like the Joker. The bars are different, the speedo is different, the seat is different, and the whole rear section of the bodywork is different. The build quality on the Cali Classic appeared quite good, though not as good as the Buddy or Vino 125, but definitely better than typical Chinese standards. It is a gorgeous scooter in red or black, but a bit small for me.


I have always been a fan of the Honda Joker, and wish someone would build a high quality copy, since Honda is obviously not going to sell it here. Jerry.

Two totally separate issues. Lance had previously marketed (briefly, before SYM put a stop to it) Fiddle clones or (as SYM claimed) Fiddles that were purchased from a holding company in China and re-badged. SYM took action and the Lance Fiddle clones never materialized.

Earlier this year, Lance reduced its new scooter lineup to the Cali Classic, a Joker clone. Lance told dealers and others it was being built by SYM at a Chinese factory. Most were dubious (based on Lance's reputation). It turns out there may be some truth to this, though.

[Roose Hurro]

what if Lance could also capture the SYM "Symba" and re-badge it as the Lance "Lancer" for the price of 1999.00 ..

A clone of a clone! It would be like the Chinese versions of the Ural, which is a clone of a BMW…

I know, right?

P.S. I didn't mean to cast aspersions on the business practices of the Chinese. As Philip Mac is always quick to point out, they have come a hell of a long way in a very short time. Their entire business world is a work in progress. It would be really intense to do business in an environment like that. When I was a little younger, I think I would have loved the challenge...

These links may help:

http://factsanddetails.com/china.php?it ... ubcatid=59

http://www.chinalawblog.com/2009/07/the ... tices.html

http://www.buyusa.gov/harrisburg/chinabusiness.html

http://www.carnegieendowment.org/public ... w&id=19628

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

[JHScoot]

SYM IS selling a Joker-ish clone in Europe. And it matches the Lance bike! I just assumed it was Chinese when I saw it, and would still bet it mostly is, even if it has a Taiwanese VIN. But who knows? Who cares? Ick. Even if it's Taiwanese quality, it still looks like a Chinese Joker knockoff, and the joker was ugly to begin with!

Crazy.

Thank you! I thought I was the only one that thought that scooter was god awful.

Any of em, even the joker, I mean sure if it really was a classic scoot then it might have some cache, like a pug, it's ugly but so ugly it's cute.
Those scooters just stank of trying to hard.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I love the Jokers looks, and wish I had one, but all you can get here are cheap Chinese copies that fall apart. Jerry.

i like them, as well. i still look forward to getting one. if Lance is the only one selling decent quality ones, then i will go that route when the time comes. i like the chrome handlebars, and the chrome at the back. but i don't want the cheap look of the chinese ones. i think Lance / SYM / Whatever it is...has done a good job of making it look decent. a 150cc would be nice, however

for now i am quite happy with my Agility 125, but would like a bit more oomph in the future. i will most likely end up with a 200cc-250cc scooter, as the Agility is a good "initial scoot" or city scooter. but in the future i will definitely want a "joker clone" to go with my bigger scoot


EDIT: well, maybe not. i don't know, i THINK i want one. but then i look at it and think 'its kind of cheesy.' and i wouldn't want that feeling to grow after purchase