UPDATE: Conrod bearing fail: CRAP. First dumped, now siezed?

Anachronism · Post by **Anachronism** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:08 am

UPDATE: Now that this has largely been resolved, I am comfortable in saying that the shop in question is Sportique Scooters in Colorado Springs.

http://www.sportiquescooters.com/

So, to make a long story short...

Bike has had a Sito+ exhaust since 500 miles, 1327 now. When I installed it, I did lots of plug chops, because of the altitude (6500 feet) I found I did not need to rejet. I confirmed with my shop that this was their experience as well.

1. One fine day, bike starts cutting out HARD with what seems like an ignition miss. It would idle fine, would run fine for about 5 minutes, then would start cutting out, where it would fall on its face under load, then settle back to a smooth idle. Spark plug looks perfectly fine in terms of mix.

2. While diagnosing the problem, shop lays the bike down. Thread here: topic15629.html

3. Thursday, the shop gives me the bike back, with most, but not quite all, of the repair work done from dumping the bike. They still need to do some paint. They tell me the bike runs fine, and the problem was a clogged jet, I drive it the 4 miles home, it seems to be fine.

4. I left for a 4th of July camping trip just before taking the bike in, and have not driven it at all until this morning.

5. On the way back to my house from work, while idling, the bike shuts off. Weird. I start it up again, seems fine. At the next light, same thing. I'm starting to wonder if my ignition switch is acting up.

6. Bike suddenly loses power. I remember how nasty a hard sieze is, and pull in the clutch. Bike instantly dies. I coast it off the road, and from about 5 mph, I put it back into gear to see if it will catch. Engine braking is very hard, engine does not catch.

7. I let it sit for 5 minutes, try to start. Engine spins freely, makes noise like something is rubbing metal on metal. No start at all, no catch.

Seems like the motor just seized 10 miles after I got it back from the shop, while still dealing with the fact that they laid my bike down. What the hell do I do?

lmyers · Post by **lmyers** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:07 am

That's exactly what the orange was doing, but it was just the spark plug cap. It would work it's way loose while I was riding. Replaced the cap, everything works. You might check that.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:43 am

Did it actually seize, locking up the rear wheel or just loose power?

jmkjr72 · Post by **jmkjr72** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:25 pm

well i wonder if you get to join the clan of busted piston skirts or maybe busted reed
it sounds like you have some busted trash rattleing around in there that tore up some stuff dont try and start it again other wise you could casue more damage

how is your shop with the warranty with the sito+ (did they install it or did you this may come into factor as genuine requres that aproved after market parts be installed by a dealer)

sounds like its time to call road side and have them take it back to the dealer

Anachronism · Post by **Anachronism** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:31 am

It didn't hard seize with locking up the rear.

That said, it seized or otherwise had catastrophic engine failure.

It shows 50 psi on my compression gauge. The plug looks great colorwise, but has a ton of metal flakes on it.

Not sure at all what happened here. It does not look like it ran lean, at least from how the plug looks.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:50 pm

50 psi is not good. Have you called the shop yet? Still under warranty?

Anachronism · Post by **Anachronism** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:12 pm

BuddyRaton wrote:50 psi is not good. Have you called the shop yet? Still under warranty?

It is still under warranty. I dropped it off at the shop.

I'm pretty incredibly unhappy here. I originally brought the bike to them because it developed what seemed to be an off-idle miss. I rode the bike for less than a mile in this condition, and checked the spark plug before I dropped it off- the plug had no metal on it. This was three weeks ago.

As mentioned, the shop lays the bike down. They replaced the panels, but still need to do several paint repairs. They give the bike back to me saying it is "fixed" and that the problem was a clogged jet. Mechanic mentions that he spent "a lot of time" trying to diagnose the problem before finding the clogged jet.

I get the bike back. Less than ten miles later, the engine is trashed. The plug mix looks good, but it is covered in metal specks, and the 50 psi issue.

I have no idea how long the shop rode the bike with the carb messed up trying to diagnose the issue, but to me it seems like it was long enough to trash the motor from running lean.

When I dropped it off, the mechanic started in with "it has a Sito, it won't be warranted."

So, in summary, three weeks ago I dropped my bike off for a simple warranty repair. In that time, the shop has gotten my 7 month old bike in a wreck and gave me a bike back where the engine failed on my first ride with my wrecked bike back, and they are having the gall to make me fight to get the repair covered.

Very, very pissed off right now.

bigbropgo · Post by **bigbropgo** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 4:10 pm

That takes some stones to look you in the eye and explain how " we wrecked you bike but with that exhaust, were not obligated to fix it". I know that's not exactly what was said, and times at you shop are tight. But you take a bike in with a hiccup, and they return a unusable pile of metal. How bad was the damage from the wreck really? That might be what it comes down to, sito or not.

Best of luck.

Anachronism · Post by **Anachronism** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 9:13 pm

bigbropgo wrote:That takes some stones to look you in the eye and explain how " we wrecked you bike but with that exhaust, were not obligated to fix it". I know that's not exactly what was said, and times at you shop are tight. But you take a bike in with a hiccup, and they return a unusable pile of metal. How bad was the damage from the wreck really? That might be what it comes down to, sito or not.

Best of luck.

To be fair, they never said the sito would prevent them from fixing the damage THEY did from laying the bike down.

They gave me the bike back saying it would take some time for them to line up a paint guy, and so I might as well ride it while they did that. At that point, I was ok with that arrangement.

Regarding the blown motor, I don't suspect it was a result of the crash. I suspect it was a result of them running the engine lean while trying to figure out what was wrong.

Seems to me that a clogged jet run for an extended period would kill a stock bike as well as mine.

I'm not even saying that I want them to replace the motor with no cost to me. I put a sito on it and knew the risks. The issue I see is that there were no problems with the Sito when the bike entered the shop, and ten miles upon exit, the engine blows. Seems to me something happened while the bike was there, either because of the wreck or because of the mechanic running it lean.

That said, considering the HELL I have been through with them over this repair, and the fact that the bike died 10 miles after leaving their shop fixed, I am PISSED that I start getting static right away about how it will not be warranteed.

I would expect at the very least for them to take the bike apart and look at it before starting in with the "not warranted" BS.

jmkjr72 · Post by **jmkjr72** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:57 pm

i would realy like to see what they find when they tear it apar tif it is a catostrophic failure of a part i doubt it was becuase it was lean due to a cloged jet
genuien refused my warranty request becuase i ordered after market replacement parts before the warranty request went thru

we need to find out what faild and see if we can figure out if it was casued by the sito just becuase you have an after market pipe on they cant refuse the warranty claim and that is us law they have to prove that the pipe casued the part to fail

plus from what i understand from the dealers is they dont get paid properly by genuine first off they only get a flat rate to fix the issue so if genuine says its a 100 buck repair thats what they get even in labor wise it would be a 300 buck repair
and secondly what the dealer actauly gets is just a credit on there genuin account

tbonestone · Post by **tbonestone** » Fri Jul 09, 2010 3:51 pm

Not to be a rabble-rouser But... Even with a sito+ at the altitude of Co. Springs i wonder if an upjet would be required. I don't think i had to change much of anything when i was in Denver; and running the stock cylinder and a sito+

Anachronism · Post by **Anachronism** » Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:52 pm

tbonestone wrote:Not to be a rabble-rouser But... Even with a sito+ at the altitude of Co. Springs i wonder if an upjet would be required. I don't think i had to change much of anything when i was in Denver; and running the stock cylinder and a sito+

This is another thing that pissed me off pretty royally.

Of every local rider I have asked (which is essentially EVERY ONE that I see riding a Stella), none of them have had to upjet- only minor tweaking of the carb, if that, was needed.

I've also asked the shop several times- "Do you upjet when you install the Sitos?" EVERY TIME, the answer was "no." I even asked when I was BSing with the shop guys visiting my crashed scooter about a week before the motor blew, and got the same answer.

So what happens when I bring it in for the blown motor?

Them:"Hey, did you upjet when you installed the Sito?"

Me: "no, I plug chopped the hell out of the bike, and it looked great, and I've pulled the plug to check it every hundred miles or so of riding, it has always looked fine. Look at the mix on the plug now, it looks quite rich."

Them: "Oooh, that could be a problem. We usually have to upject a few steps."

Bullshit.

The shop is totally in CYA mode, and if they don't go a LONG way to making this right I am going to start tearing off asses.

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Fri Jul 09, 2010 5:23 pm

Anachronism wrote:

Me: "no, I plug chopped the hell out of the bike, and it looked great, and I've pulled the plug to check it every hundred miles or so of riding, it has always looked fine. Look at the mix on the plug now, it looks quite rich."

Them: "Oooh, that could be a problem. We usually have to upject a few steps."

Bullshit.

The shop is totally in CYA mode, and if they don't go a LONG way to making this right I am going to start tearing off asses.

If it was running rich why the heck would they tell you you need to upjet?

Anachronism · Post by **Anachronism** » Fri Jul 09, 2010 5:43 pm

jasondavis48108 wrote:
Anachronism wrote:

Me: "no, I plug chopped the hell out of the bike, and it looked great, and I've pulled the plug to check it every hundred miles or so of riding, it has always looked fine. Look at the mix on the plug now, it looks quite rich."

Them: "Oooh, that could be a problem. We usually have to upject a few steps."

Bullshit.

The shop is totally in CYA mode, and if they don't go a LONG way to making this right I am going to start tearing off asses.
If it was running rich why the heck would they tell you you need to upjet?

Exactly. At least three other discussions they tell me they do not upjet, right up until the moment that they start grasping for straws as to why they don't have a responsibility to fix the bike.

bdonay · Post by **bdonay** » Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:36 pm

Had a similar problem with a shop in Ohio. They did a simple oil change and when I rode it away the scoot started to smoke. I took it back to the shop, barely going 5 mph at full throttle. After taking a look at the bike they said a hose came loose causing the oil to drain from the bike. The bike never ran the same afterwards. I'm sure the loss of oil caused some damage to the engine, but they would not own up to the fact that it was their fault. The shop tried to blame it on the manufacturer and vis versus. This went on for 3 months until I had to move to California. Since then I sold my scoot and the shop went out of business.

I would not give in to the shop trying to pawn it off as a warranty thing. It sounds like they had something to do with the issues your having and should be held accountable. I would suggest, after you have exhausted all other resources, getting a lawyer involved. I tried going in this direction but Ohio lawyers wouldn't work with an out of state client.

Good luck and I hope your outcome is better than mine was.

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:50 pm

I'd wait till I figured out what the repairs are going to cost before I lawyered up. Lawyers can get real expensive and unless you want to sue them out of principle my guess is that a lawyer would cost more than the repairs to the scooter. I would, however, start looking for a new shop if at all possible. Sounds like they are really trying to cover thier own butts rather than make good on a situation that was made considerably more crappy by them than it ever needed to be.

bigbropgo · Post by **bigbropgo** » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:35 pm

jasondavis48108 wrote:I'd wait till I figured out what the repairs are going to cost before I lawyered up. Lawyers can get real expensive and unless you want to sue them out of principle my guess is that a lawyer would cost more than the repairs to the scooter. I would, however, start looking for a new shop if at all possible. Sounds like they are really trying to cover thier own butts rather than make good on a situation that was made considerably more crappy by them than it ever needed to be.

that's what sucks about lawyers and even a small claims situation. But simple accountability and resolution would be ideal. Not sure how the genuine warranty stuff works but is it time to have a third party look at it?

Hard for them to back peddle if it ran worse after repairs. And hard for you to pay for something that wasn't fixed either. But running worse and damage after warranty work has kinda left you in limbo. The leverage you have is that somebody laid it down. Its going to come down to a time line of events. The fight will be the pain in the butt.

bdonay · Post by **bdonay** » Sat Jul 10, 2010 1:30 am

I wouldn't be afraid to talk to a lawyer, they will point you in the right direction if they can't help you otherwise. Check out the Colorado Consumer Protection Act and MOTOR VEHICLE REPAIR ACT and then talk to the shop again.

laxer · Post by **laxer** » Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:20 am

This thread really makes me appreciate having such a great local scooter shop, I'm sorry some people are having so much trouble with theirs. I can't imagine owning a scooter without having a shop full of responsible and competent people there to help me.

Anachronism · Post by **Anachronism** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:32 am

laxer wrote:This thread really makes me appreciate having such a great local scooter shop, I'm sorry some people are having so much trouble with theirs. I can't imagine owning a scooter without having a shop full of responsible and competent people there to help me.

My scooter shop has an EXCELLENT reputation. This is 180* out of all of my expectations regarding this shop.

Anachronism · Post by **Anachronism** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:37 am

UPDATE:

Got a call from the shop while I was out of town. They tore the scooter apart and found the connecting rod bearing on the crank side failed.

They are submitting it for warranty repair. Seems like because the failure was not a seize (and thus a lot harder to blame on the pipe), they have backed off of their "its your fault" stance a bit.

I thought the later 2T Stellas tended to be a bit better than needing a new engine at 1300 miles?!?

Has anybody that has been through the warranty process give me some idea of what to expect here?

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:33 am

glad to here it will be covered

Anachronism · Post by **Anachronism** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:23 pm

jasondavis48108 wrote:glad to here it will be covered

That part remains to be seen.

dawg onit · Post by **dawg onit** » Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:32 pm

Wow man, I have felt for you since your first post about this. Just hope everything comes out the way it should, hang in there.

bigbropgo · Post by **bigbropgo** » Tue Aug 10, 2010 5:07 am

Have an update? Just wondering how things worked out. Or maybe I missed it.

Anachronism · Post by **Anachronism** » Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:29 am

I got it back about a week ago.

I'm still not terribly happy.

They put touch up paint on the bike, but it doesn't match perfectly, and they did not sand down the scratches, so it is touch up paint over the scrapes, which are still visible under the paint. Then again, this is on the very bottom of the floorboard, so I'm marginally ok with that, although I would have preferred it to be done right.

They gave me the bike back without a working neutral light, and the brake indicator on the gauge does not light with the front brake, just the back. THE FUEL GAUGE STILL DOES NOT WORK, which is one of the reasons I brought the bike in in the first place!

When they rebuilt the engine, they upjetted two sizes. Their rationale was "The tune looked ok, but you had a massive engine failure so we figured this would be safe with the sito."

The piston that came out of the bike showed no issues. It had a good wash, the rings looked to have a good seal (no carbon after the first ring) and no evidence of overheating or siezing, aside from pieces of the rod bearing getting jammed in there.

Now with the upjet, the bike develops a significant bog when running relatively low RPMS with any type of load.

I need to take it in, but my parents were in a serious car accident and my dad has spent the week in ICU, so I have bigger issues at the moment.

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:39 am

I'm really sorry to hear about your dad. Sounds like you really do have bigger issues on your plate right now that the performance of your scooter. Sucks that the shop isn't owning up to thier responsibilities as far as fixing both the danage they caused as well as the original issues it was brought to them for. Hopefuly, after your dad has made a full recovery, you will be able to find a better shop.

bigbropgo · Post by **bigbropgo** » Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:56 am

I hope everything goes well with your family. things are seen from a different perspective when family members are in need.

JunkyardDog · Post by **JunkyardDog** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:27 pm

You have been screwed by this dealer from the very beginning. It's lawsuit time, if they refuse to give you a new scooter. Your unfortunate situation has made up my mind on what to do about my non running Stella with only 389 miles on it. Under no circumstances will my scooter EVER see a dealer. I will fix it myself, whatever it costs me. My scooter is new, without a scratch on it, and I intend to make sure it stays that way. Sounds like your dealer is no better than Japanese "powersports" dealers or Chinese scooter dealers. This is the reason most dealers are hated by almost everyone who has ever had to deal with one. Jerry.

Howardr · Post by **Howardr** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:27 pm

JunkyardDog wrote:You have been screwed by this dealer from the very beginning. It's lawsuit time, if they refuse to give you a new scooter. Your unfortunate situation has made up my mind on what to do about my non running Stella with only 389 miles on it. Under no circumstances will my scooter EVER see a dealer. I will fix it myself, whatever it costs me. My scooter is new, without a scratch on it, and I intend to make sure it stays that way. Sounds like your dealer is no better than Japanese "powersports" dealers or Chinese scooter dealers. This is the reason most dealers are hated by almost everyone who has ever had to deal with one. Jerry.

Junkyard, you may want to consider bringing your Stella to Tucson to Scoot Over. Quite a few Phx folks have done so in the past. Ron, the lead mechanic there is pretty good and has a good reputation.

Just a thought, oh, and don't blame me if you do bring it down and something bad happens.

Howard

Anachronism · Post by **Anachronism** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:39 pm

JunkyardDog wrote:You have been screwed by this dealer from the very beginning. It's lawsuit time, if they refuse to give you a new scooter. Your unfortunate situation has made up my mind on what to do about my non running Stella with only 389 miles on it. Under no circumstances will my scooter EVER see a dealer. I will fix it myself, whatever it costs me. My scooter is new, without a scratch on it, and I intend to make sure it stays that way. Sounds like your dealer is no better than Japanese "powersports" dealers or Chinese scooter dealers. This is the reason most dealers are hated by almost everyone who has ever had to deal with one. Jerry.

The dealer in question has a VERY good reputation, has been in business for a long time, and I would definitely not characterize them in the manner you have above.

I appreciate the support, but I don't think it is as bad as what you say.

I've had a crazy life recently, but here is where I am at with all of this.

1. The shop completely rebuilt the engine under warranty. They spent a lot of work checking clearances to make sure everything was solid. The motor has run very well since I got it back (about 200 miles ago).

2. The only place that is not perfect in terms on paint is the underside of the bike, where chips were filled but were not sanded smooth. We are talking 3-4 paint chips out of sight. I can't say I am 100% satisfied with that, but I don't think it is a terribly big deal.

3. The bog I mentioned in a previous post has mostly gone away with the break in, but the scoot is still down on power in the low end. I think it is a tuning issue. I don't really blame them for this because I agree that I would rather be safe than sorry, and being a little rich on break in is not a bad thing.

When I take it in (today), I will have them fix the few things left over from the accident and blown motor (nuetral light on gauge doesn't come on, stop light on gauge doesn't come on with the front brake, and gas gauge is still broke). I'm not really concerned about these things, as they rushed to get the bike running for me when I pcked it up, and probably missed these things as a result. The fuel gauge, well, I get the idea it wasn't really high on their priority list to fix after they had to fix the damage done by dumping it and then the blown motor, so they were more interested in getting a ridable bike back to me.

The bottom line is that while they have not been perfect in this, I would give them a B to B- in their response to all of this. In the end, I have a good running and good looking scooter and have not paid a dime for fixing it.

They would have been bumped up to an A if they had given me a loaner scoot, if they had not hassled me about warranty issues before looking at the problem, and if they had been better about giving me a completely repaired bike back, but I am pretty far away from lawsuit territory.

I would sum up my whole experience as being "mildly happy" with their end result.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:20 am

It's one of those situations that is bad for you, bad for them...and a suit would only make it good for the lawyers. If everyone ends up feeling "OK" about it I think it ended well.

Now go for a ride!

Anachronism · Post by **Anachronism** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:48 pm

BuddyRaton wrote:It's one of those situations that is bad for you, bad for them...and a suit would only make it good for the lawyers. If everyone ends up feeling "OK" about it I think it ended well.

Now go for a ride!

I think that is an excellent way to look at it.

And I have to thank everybody that has given me advice through this- it has really helped, and has helped me stay level-headed...

JunkyardDog · Post by **JunkyardDog** » Fri Sep 17, 2010 10:49 pm

Glad you are "satisfied" with things. From my perspective, if I had paid for a brand new scooter, (which I just did) I would want a brand new scooter. But then scooters are a hobby and a passion for me, not just transportation. For strictly transportation, I would use a car. A/C is nice here in our 115 degree summers. I would have at least filed a complaint with Genuine, and seen what their response was before filing a lawsuit. I have no love for lawyers either, but I have been involved in 2 accidents in cars (that were someone else's fault, both involved injuries, I was off work for 6 weeks with one of them. I got lawyers both times, and figure I got a fair settlement, even after the lawyers took 33% of it, I made out a lot better than just accepting what the insurance companies offered me. These accidents were, after all, someone else's fault, as was the damage to your scooter. Jerry.