Soft sieze buddy 70

slusher5 · Post by **slusher5** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 5:24 am

so then an under an hour for me is reasonable, I was thinking 2+hours

slusher5 · Post by **slusher5** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 5:29 am

before posting I checked the DIY/guides and I didn't find it.also used the search

do you know where a guide is? or could you type one up real fast

jmkjr72 · Post by **jmkjr72** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 2:52 pm

slusher5 wrote:I have no idea how to get to the spark plugs and it would probably take me hours more than someone who knew, if only my mechanic would offer to help but he is convinced nothing is wrong.

How long do you think it will take altogether? also if the cylinder is damaged would I be able to put my stock one in or would the weights and jets not work well with stock cylinder?

well thats the first problem here is you have a high performance scooter and you know nothing about general maintnace

im not knocking you but if you want a moded scoot you realy need to learn the basics about it and about tuning it

heck a 2stroke scooter can be rebuilt in less then an hour most of the work is getting the body panels off

tell your mechanic there is something wrong and make him take the top end off infront of you and show you that there is no damage he knows there is and that it was his fault for not properly jetting your scooter that is why he doesnt want to do anything about it

all i can say if you dont want to learn to diy then its time to find a diffrent mechanic

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 4:58 pm

I couldn't agree more jmkjr! At first its scary as hell learning how to work on your scooter, but I've found that the folks here are generally willing to help you learn

If your gonna start straying away from stock, then you have to start learning about the scooter, what each mod will do, possible consequenses, ect. The only other option is to find a kick arse mechanic and be willing to shell out some serious money cause getting it tuned just right can take a lot of hours and if its not tuned right it can and most likely will cause damage if you ride it that way. If you don't elect to learn or set aside money to pay someone who has that knowledge, your setting yourself up for a serious heartbreak when your scoots trashed and you can't afford to have it fixed. I now have two scooters, one to learn how to work on, and one with a four year warranty

slusher5 · Post by **slusher5** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 5:23 pm

well I would love to learn cause I'm on a tight budget, IDK if my mechanic would be willing to teach me(last time I went to the shop a guy was asking if he could sell his homemade mopeds in his shop and he wanted nothing to do with him and they got in an argument, and then after the guy left my mechanic was like next time your re-jetting this, he then showed me how, but his demeanor was different), do community colleges have classes or where do I find the information?

juice · Post by **juice** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 5:53 pm

Just because you encountered a surley mechanic I would not write off all scooter mechanics . It does seem to me though that you might want to consider trading your modded scoot in for something more reliable and then leaving it stock . Good luck .

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:57 pm

I work at a community college. Many community colleges have small engine classes or motorcycle mech. programs. The Buddy 50 is very easy to work on, you'll just need to start building up your tool collection as you encounter new jobs you want to preform. An electric 1/2" impact driver is almost a necessity and you can pick one of those up at harbor freight for about $30.00-$40.00 on sale some impact sockets and extensions are also tools you will want to pick up. I wouldn't try to buy all the tools you need at once, just pick up what you need for each job and sooner than you'd think you'll have all the tools you need to do most jobs on your scooter. They also make generic scooter maintenance guides for asian scooters. I'd pick up one of those and aquaint yourself with the Buddy 50 service manual. I don't find the service manual good for much other than torque values and a general idea of any particular procedure. There are also lots of how-tos in the tech library here on modern buddy

slusher5 · Post by **slusher5** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 8:48 pm

I took my scooter to another store/shop and they are going to run a compression test and tell me whats up for $35. Over the phone the guy was talking about I could probably squeeze 1500 miles out of the cylinder before it broke. If I were to switch back to the original parts aside from exhaust, would it go back to being reliable?

bigbropgo · Post by **bigbropgo** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:02 pm

Check out that 49ccscoot.com. it has pics and explanations for a lot of this stuff.

juice · Post by **juice** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 9:46 pm

Properly reinstalled your original equipment should be reliable if it was not damaged when it was changed out . A stock de-restricted buddy 50 will go 45-50 mph . Good luck .

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 10:41 pm

juice wrote:A stock de-restricted buddy 50 will go 45-50 mph

Perhaps going downhill... with a tailwind... at sea level... if you weigh 100lbs.

The best I've ever done on flat ground with no wind at about 500-600ft elevation, was under 45mph on the speedo, probably around 40mph actual. Granted, I'm over 200lbs, but I wouldn't expect to get close to 50mph even if you cut me in half and put me on two Buddy 50s.

juice · Post by **juice** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 10:55 pm

Im 210 lb. and I have seen the speedometer over 50 . My son 145 lb. swears he has seen 55 . I can't swear to the speedometer accuracy . Yes that is downhill but 45 is no problem on flat . 09 buddy 50 1,250 mi.

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:06 pm

TVB wrote:
juice wrote:A stock de-restricted buddy 50 will go 45-50 mph
Perhaps going downhill... with a tailwind... at sea level... if you weigh 100lbs. The best I've ever done on flat ground with no wind at about 500-600ft elevation, was under 45mph on the speedo, probably around 40mph actual. Granted, I'm over 200lbs, but I wouldn't expect to get close to 50mph even if you cut me in half and put me on two Buddy 50s.

agreed! with my stage 1 kit (prima pipe, 85 jet, 100orpm compression spring) and dr.pulley 7.5g rollers (heavier for extra top end and miserable acceleration

) I have hit a top end on a looong flat stretch at a gps confirmed 49mph

I weigh 200lb on the nose right now. Before mods I could hit that very unreliably on a serious downhill with a strong wind at my back but never on the flat. If you want a reliable 50-55mph I'd go with something bigger than a 50cc scoot. If you want to tear something apart and have a ton of fun doing it then the Buddy 50cc 2T is the way to go

juice · Post by **juice** » Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:52 pm

Looks like I got a magic buddy 50 . Before I de-restricted it I had a hard time doing 35 mph downhill . My other scooter is a 2002 people 50 . It will do 50 mph stock , GPS verified . The people does get there quicker .

Major Redneck · Post by **Major Redneck** » Sun Sep 19, 2010 2:12 am

i think the stock oil pump on a buddy 50 is at a 50:1,,, being you have added a larger cylinder your requirement for more oil is needed... just how much is closer to the 32:1 ratio but less...

jmkjr72 · Post by **jmkjr72** » Sun Sep 19, 2010 3:50 pm

actauly i belive the stock setting is closer to 40 to 1 and as long as you are staying in the sport kit catagory they are basicly stock style bores and work just fine with stock autolube systems

its when you start premixing and or adding extra oil that you increase the varaibles

your gas now has oil in it so your af ratio is no longer the same with the same jet so you need to up jet if you put too much oil in for your gas you are now lean(a/f lean you can over heat and seize)

slusher5 · Post by **slusher5** » Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:21 pm

ok, had it checked out and he said the pressure was 150 and that he had to search for the scratch, he told me to ride it like 5 mins and let it cool down for like 20 mins, and while riding I should rev it and then let off instead of just cruising at a steady throttle

juice · Post by **juice** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:42 am

You guys had me doubting my memory about my buddy 50 so I took it for a ride today . I hit 50 mph several times and traveled at 45+ mph easily all in a 15 minute ride . My buddy is stock de-restricted . I run a NGK iridium plug , non ethanol high test gas with 1 oz per gal seafoam , amsoil interceptor 2 stroke oil . and 32 lb of air in the stock tires . Even allowing for speedometer error that is still pretty quick . More than the local moped laws allow anyway . Does anyone else out there get that level of performance from their stock buddy 50 ? Thanks .

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 1:14 pm

I traveled at 45mph indicated easily before upgrades but my speedo is 12% optimistic so this translates to 39 mph actual

I could hit 50mph indicated down hill occasionaly which is 44mph actual. So far the only mods I've got are a prima pipe, 7.5g sliders, 85 main jet, 1000rpm compression spring and my top speed has been 49mph actual. There are so many variables that impact top speeds on these little scooters that I'm not too suprised that we see quite a bit of variance in reported top speeds. The speedos are also all over the place in terms of acuracy, most are about 10% optimistic but I've heard folks who report thiers as high as 15% optimistic. They're really only good for a rough approximation of speed

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:17 pm

juice wrote:You guys had me doubting my memory about my buddy 50 so I took it for a ride today . I hit 50 mph several times and traveled at 45+ mph easily all in a 15 minute ride . My buddy is stock de-restricted . I run a NGK iridium plug , non ethanol high test gas with 1 oz per gal seafoam , amsoil interceptor 2 stroke oil . and 32 lb of air in the stock tires . Even allowing for speedometer error that is still pretty quick . More than the local moped laws allow anyway . Does anyone else out there get that level of performance from their stock buddy 50 ? Thanks .

If it is derestricted it is not stock.

juice · Post by **juice** » Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:24 am

Uh , The only restrictions I removed were the clutch boss and the oversized exhaust washer that they put on the scooters destined for sale in the USA . The machine was not designed to run those restrictions and they are better off mechanically without them . I did not touch the CDI or the carburator or stock air filter . To the rest of the world my 50 is bone stock .

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:50 am

juice wrote:Uh , The only restrictions I removed were the clutch boss and the oversized exhaust washer that they put on the scooters destined for sale in the USA . The machine was not designed to run those restrictions and they are better off mechanically without them . I did not touch the CDI or the carburator or stock air filter . To the rest of the world my 50 is bone stock .

Uh, the clutch boss and the oversized exhaust washer are the way a stock 50cc is sold in the US, if it is derestricted it is not stock, and if not reregistered, illegal. Also if you didn't rejet after derestricting I would suggest running some plug chops to check your mixture.

jmkjr72 · Post by **jmkjr72** » Sun Sep 26, 2010 2:03 am

actualy there is one more restriction to remove and it is cast into the exhasut port

if you make this match your exhasut gasket and taper it back into the bore (you can feel how far back the glob goes)

you gain even more and if you have an after market pipe it is a must do

even with a stock pipe it flows enough that you should up jet just a bit

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Sun Sep 26, 2010 3:05 am

Holy crap, I didn't know that jmkjr. You learn something new every day here at modern buddy

I'd take care of this restriction but I'm taking your advice and buying the Top Performance Trophey kit this winter so its kind of moot at this point.

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Sun Sep 26, 2010 3:43 am

BuddyRaton wrote:If it is derestricted it is not stock.

I think the meaning of the word "stock" followed by "derestricted" is pretty clear. It's like saying "plain ice cream with a cherry on top": obviously the ice cream is no longer "plain" once the cherry is added, but the phrase emphasizes that the cherry is the only alteration. Did you really find this unclear?

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:37 am

uh...stock is stock...derestricted is modified. Of course I understand...once you start pulling things off its a modified motor. To say that it is "derestricted" and then ask what other "stock" scooters are getting may be confusing to some...not to me...but some. Derestricting means a lot of different things to different people...Did you really find this unclear?

Don't get me wrong...I'm a pretty hard core modifier...but I dont say...well all I did was change my exhaust....and upgear my transmission.

As said above...once you start changing a "stock" setup it is hard to compare.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:47 am

jmkjr72 wrote:actualy there is one more restriction to remove and it is cast into the exhasut port

if you make this match your exhasut gasket and taper it back into the bore (you can feel how far back the glob goes)

you gain even more and if you have an after market pipe it is a must do

even with a stock pipe it flows enough that you should up jet just a bit

Nice porting job!

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Sun Sep 26, 2010 2:40 pm

BuddyRaton wrote:uh...stock is stock...derestricted is modified. Of course I understand...once you start pulling things off its a modified motor. To say that it is "derestricted" and then ask what other "stock" scooters are getting may be confusing to some...not to me...but some.

Yeah, I figured that you probably understood what he meant – as did everyone else in the discussion – and were just taking the opportunity to be pedantic.

bigbropgo · Post by **bigbropgo** » Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:13 pm

In my delusional mind, I prefer to think that these scoots are restricted by the man. The man wants to hold them back and keep them down. De-restriction is more of a liberation of power. Stock is the de-restricted version, the man restricts it.

MGM · Post by **MGM** » Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:55 pm

My first scooter was a Buddy 50. In PA the "moped" law relates only to the engine size (>50cc), not top speed. The Buddy was deristricted as part of the setup, without discussion. I didn't even know about restricted scooters until I read this forum. The "stock" as delivered Buddy 50 was derestricted. registration re

jmkjr72 · Post by **jmkjr72** » Sun Sep 26, 2010 5:07 pm

MGM wrote:My first scooter was a Buddy 50. In PA the "moped" law relates only to the engine size (>50cc), not top speed. The Buddy was deristricted as part of the setup, without discussion. I didn't even know about restricted scooters until I read this forum. The "stock" as delivered Buddy 50 was derestricted. registration re

hate to say it but even restriced a buddy is not a moped in pa

http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/pdotforms/fa ... s-momo.pdf

you can go faster then 25 mph and you have more then 1.5 hp and you dont have pedels

by the law of pa you are a motordriven cylce
which doesnt have a top speed limit

slusher5 · Post by **slusher5** » Sun Sep 26, 2010 7:32 pm

TVB wrote:
BuddyRaton wrote:If it is derestricted it is not stock.
I think the meaning of the word "stock" followed by "derestricted" is pretty clear. It's like saying "plain ice cream with a cherry on top": obviously the ice cream is no longer "plain" once the cherry is added, but the phrase emphasizes that the cherry is the only alteration. Did you really find this unclear?

I competely disagree, adding the cherry doesn't change the ice cream, your basically saying that by adding a cherry on top of vanilla ice cream your going to get cherry ice cream

none of these posts are pertinent to the original thread btw

agrogod · Post by **agrogod** » Sun Sep 26, 2010 7:44 pm

slusher your missing the whole point

. If you stuff cherries and vanilla ice cream into your engine it will soft seize your motor. Sheesh, even I got that

.

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Sun Sep 26, 2010 8:27 pm

agrogod wrote:slusher your missing the whole point . If you stuff cherries and vanilla ice cream into your engine it will soft seize your motor. Sheesh, even I got that .

I thought that would soft SERVE your motor?

bigbropgo · Post by **bigbropgo** » Sun Sep 26, 2010 8:30 pm

Soft serve motor, I think that's a local band name.

Wheelz · Post by **Wheelz** » Sun Sep 26, 2010 8:43 pm

If your motor is now soft served? Is then a non-stock modification or...

Slusher how's it goin with your bud btw?

slusher5 · Post by **slusher5** » Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:10 pm

after the guy did the compression test my scooter sounded different (like something ain't right), apparently the mechanic who i took to have the parts installed doesn't do anything but hand my scooter to someone else... I'm taking it to the company/person who actually did the work and they are hopefully going to set things right

for those who live in houston,
scootersmith- took to him to have the parts installed
scoot houston- took to get the compression test
global motor imports- was the people who actually installed the parts

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:04 am

Kaos wrote:
agrogod wrote:slusher your missing the whole point . If you stuff cherries and vanilla ice cream into your engine it will soft seize your motor. Sheesh, even I got that .
I thought that would soft SERVE your motor?

kaos he doesn't own a chianese scoot

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 2:00 am

slusher5 wrote:after the guy did the compression test my scooter sounded different (like something ain't right), apparently the mechanic who i took to have the parts installed doesn't do anything but hand my scooter to someone else... I'm taking it to the company/person who actually did the work and they are hopefully going to set things right

for those who live in houston,
scootersmith- took to him to have the parts installed
scoot houston- took to get the compression test
global motor imports- was the people who actually installed the parts

If he was searching for a scratch on the bore he did more than just run a compression test. At a minimum he would have had to pull the head.

Anachronism · Post by **Anachronism** » Mon Sep 27, 2010 2:45 am

BuddyRaton wrote:
slusher5 wrote:after the guy did the compression test my scooter sounded different (like something ain't right), apparently the mechanic who i took to have the parts installed doesn't do anything but hand my scooter to someone else... I'm taking it to the company/person who actually did the work and they are hopefully going to set things right

for those who live in houston,
scootersmith- took to him to have the parts installed
scoot houston- took to get the compression test
global motor imports- was the people who actually installed the parts
If he was searching for a scratch on the bore he did more than just run a compression test. At a minimum he would have had to pull the head.

Or use a borescope. Some mechanics have cameras built to be fed through a spark plug hole. Not every engine has a head as easy to take off as a Buddy 50...

slusher5 · Post by **slusher5** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:13 pm

What do you think, pay $70 and have the stock cylinder put back on or pay around $120-150 and have a new 70cc cylinder put on?

also, I feel like the shops are taking advantage of me, I've paid them to put the parts on and tune it, and they didn't even tune it correctly, and they never told me to pre-mix the oil, should they be doing all this extra work for free or refund me for what I paid them to tune it or what?

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:50 pm

It would be very hard to prove that you didn't do something to the engine during break-in (not that you did) so I wouldn't count on any refunds or free work. As for stock v. new 70cc. I'd say go with another 70cc kit but this time get a cast iron two ring kit. That should be more durable than the prima kit.

jmkjr72 · Post by **jmkjr72** » Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:48 am

yes get your self a good name brand kit not the prima branded crap

the prima branded 2 stroke kit is along the lines of most of the cheap no name tiwian kits that you see on ebay not good

polini mallosi top performance and motoforce all have good sprots kits that will work with the stock pipe or after market pipe

but the first thing is you realy need to learn to do some of the stuff on your own or find a shop that specialzes in tuned scoots not just one that bolts parts on

lack of tuning shops is why i opend my shop my primary goal is tuning and i do restortion and repars as a side

or find a fellow forum memeber that mods in your area and see if they can help you out

slusher5 · Post by **slusher5** » Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:22 am

jasondavis48108 wrote:It would be very hard to prove that you didn't do something to the engine during break-in (not that you did) so I wouldn't count on any refunds or free work. As for stock v. new 70cc. I'd say go with another 70cc kit but this time get a cast iron two ring kit. That should be more durable than the prima kit.

the mechanic who did the compression test said I broke it in very well, and the mechanics who put the parts on are like you got a scratch but it still runs so that means it's ok

If it was summer time I'd learn how to do all this stuff, but I got tons of HW atm

I guess it's back to stock for now, and I'll stop bugging you all

bigbropgo · Post by **bigbropgo** » Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:53 am

Your not bugging anybody. One of the best things about MB is all the knowledge people offer. The help that is available if you ask.

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:26 pm

bigbropgo wrote:Your not bugging anybody. One of the best things about MB is all the knowledge people offer. The help that is available if you ask.

yup, some of us actually come here so we can stop pestering the people in our lives with talk of scooters.

I totally understand the too much HW thing though. When I was in school I had very little time for learning anything that wasn't directly related to my current semester. Now I give too much hW and have to grade it all, but at least I finally have some time for learning how my scooters work and how to mod them. Best of luck to ya.

slusher5 · Post by **slusher5** » Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:01 pm

I talked with the mechanic, and he has agreed to put my bike back to stock for FREE, I'm out like $250-300 but live and learn

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:34 pm

slusher5 wrote:I talked with the mechanic, and he has agreed to put my bike back to stock for FREE, I'm out like $250-300 but live and learn

that's awesome.