outside battery tender question

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Sat Oct 02, 2010 6:39 pm

Hi All

I have a Tnder jr that I've been using to keep the batteries in my scooter charged over the winter. I want to ride as much as possible this winter so I'd like to not have to pull the batteries out and charge them indoors. Where I'm storing the scooters in my back yard there is an outlet, the only thing is that my tender jr is not rated for outdoor use. I know they make a marine version which is water proof. My questions is this. Has anyone used a tender on an outisde outlet like this without a garage? Is it safe? I'm a bit worried about water working it way into the oulet and then frying something (maybe my scooter or at least the tender). Any suggestions? Thanx

juice · Post by **juice** » Sat Oct 02, 2010 6:51 pm

Im not recommending your idea but if your outlet is on a ground fault curcuit , and the battery tender has a grounded plug , it probably wont really hurt anything .

Hellvis · Post by **Hellvis** » Sat Oct 02, 2010 8:56 pm

I won't recommend that either, it's too unpredictable. Besides the elements you don't know what kind of pets or critters could go and mess with the wiring as well.

I suggest that you remove the battery and keep it charged that way, it is only 4 screws, 2 for the cover and 2 for the battery terminals.

bigbropgo · Post by **bigbropgo** » Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:09 pm

Just pull it in to kitchen. Maybe have a second battery charged and ready. If it has been super cold and the scoot is having a hard time. You can do a quick swap and be on the road. Meanwhile the dead one is warming up and charging.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:18 pm

Presuming you have a waterproof cover on your scooter (which you should), I see no problem with placing the Battery Tender on the floor board or in the tray on the legshield. It will remain adequately dry and safe there. You don't need to hook it up all the time anyway. If you are riding your scooter weekly or something close to that, the battery should be fine. Hook up the tender if the scooter has been unused for several weeks.

juice · Post by **juice** » Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:10 pm

IDK if your tender would fit , but maybe something like this : 1. Taymac MM710C Weatherproof Single Outlet Cover Outdoor Receptacle Protector, 4-3/8 Inches Deep, Clear by TayMac . Good luck .

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:46 am

o.k. so I've been researching this problem and think I have a pretty solid solution.

I'm going to install this cover on the outlet
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/sto ... arketID=72

Then I'm going to use this water proof tender
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/1/ ... 5&zmap=954

during the winter I use both a scooter cover which is water resistant and a water proof tarp so I think this just may work. My back yard is fenced in with a 6ft wood privacy fence so I know I don't have to worry about kids messing with it and I had a fountain in my back yard for years with no animals chewing on the cords so I don't think that will be an issue either. Has anyone used this particular tender before? It seems to get good reviews and I even read a few from folks who use it outside in the elemnets with no issues.

Lil Buddy · Post by **Lil Buddy** » Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:15 am

As stated earlier, provided your exterior outlet is indeed a GFCI outlet or wired inline with one (as required by code for all exterior outlets.... at least in my neck of the woods) I wouldn't worry about it. I would just keep the Tender Jr on the floor board under the scooter cover. Do you have the 12v accessory plug? If so, I'd use it.

If you install an outlet cover, make sure that the "door" going over the plug-in is hinged in such a way that when your tender is plugged in, the door opens from the bottom (code again). This ensures that the door protects the outlet from moisture coming from above.

That's how I would do it

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:01 pm

Lil Buddy wrote:As stated earlier, provided your exterior outlet is indeed a GFCI outlet or wired inline with one (as required by code for all exterior outlets.... at least in my neck of the woods) I wouldn't worry about it. I would just keep the Tender Jr on the floor board under the scooter cover. Do you have the 12v accessory plug? If so, I'd use it.

If you install an outlet cover, make sure that the "door" going over the plug-in is hinged in such a way that when your tender is plugged in, the door opens from the bottom (code again). This ensures that the door protects the outlet from moisture coming from above.

That's how I would do it

the cover that I plan on installing does open from the botom so I've got that covered. As far as using the 12v accessory plug, I still don't understand how using power from the battery to charge the battery would work? does it just keep it used to charging itself, how long does it work for before the battery just runs out of juice to circulate. I mean its gotta stop working at somepoint since your using juice from the battery to run the tender to charge the battery. My guess is that there is some amount of inefficiency in that loop which would cause the battery to slowy have a net loss of power.

cheez37 · Post by **cheez37** » Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:11 pm

jasondavis48108 wrote:
Lil Buddy wrote:As stated earlier, provided your exterior outlet is indeed a GFCI outlet or wired inline with one (as required by code for all exterior outlets.... at least in my neck of the woods) I wouldn't worry about it. I would just keep the Tender Jr on the floor board under the scooter cover. Do you have the 12v accessory plug? If so, I'd use it.

If you install an outlet cover, make sure that the "door" going over the plug-in is hinged in such a way that when your tender is plugged in, the door opens from the bottom (code again). This ensures that the door protects the outlet from moisture coming from above.

That's how I would do it
the cover that I plan on installing does open from the botom so I've got that covered. As far as using the 12v accessory plug, I still don't understand how using power from the battery to charge the battery would work? does it just keep it used to charging itself, how long does it work for before the battery just runs out of juice to circulate. I mean its gotta stop working at somepoint since your using juice from the battery to run the tender to charge the battery. My guess is that there is some amount of inefficiency in that loop which would cause the battery to slowy have a net loss of power.

Using the accessory port won't drain your battery. You can get attachments that will allow you to connect the tender to a plug for the accessory port, instead of connecting directly to the battery. I think the rationale behind people suggesting using that is to get any potentially exposed connections as high-up as possible, prevent any connections being low and possibly shorting in the snow.

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:24 pm

jasondavis48108 wrote:As far as using the 12v accessory plug, I still don't understand how using power from the battery to charge the battery would work?

No, that would be a perpetual motion machine, which were outlawed about .000000001 seconds after the Big Bang began.

I think you misunderstand the suggestion. The idea is to connect the output of the tender (connected to AC as usual) to the 12V socket as the point of input to the scooter's electrical system rather than connecting directly to the battery. (The circuit that the socket is connected to can go either way.) That allows you to keep the battery fully covered and protected from the elements, and the socket itself is somewhat protected by its position on the scooter.

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:57 pm

TVB wrote:
jasondavis48108 wrote:As far as using the 12v accessory plug, I still don't understand how using power from the battery to charge the battery would work?
No, that would be a perpetual motion machine, which were outlawed about .000000001 seconds after the Big Bang began.

I think you misunderstand the suggestion. The idea is to connect the output of the tender (connected to AC as usual) to the 12V socket as the point of input to the scooter's electrical system rather than connecting directly to the battery. (The circuit that the socket is connected to can go either way.) That allows you to keep the battery fully covered and protected from the elements, and the socket itself is somewhat protected by its position on the scooter.

Oh, that makes a lot more sense

and all this time I thought folks were somehow magically charging thier scooters from thier 12v adapters and I just couldn't grasp how it was being done

Thanks for clarifying this for me TVB

Lil Buddy · Post by **Lil Buddy** » Sun Oct 03, 2010 3:46 pm

Bingo. And the accessory plug is fused adding another degree of protection in the event that your GFCI fails.

The outlet cover you linked to is for outlets that have been mounted horizontally not vertically. Just make sure that applies to your application.

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Sun Oct 03, 2010 7:12 pm

thanks Lil Buddy, my outlet is indeed horizontal so thats the one that will fit. I think the tender connectors that are currently hooked up to my battery are also on a fuse so I should be all set. The only problem I can see is that I have three scooters to store and only two outlets

Maybe I'll put them on some sort of rotation or just bring my wifes battery in since she does not ride at all during the winter months.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Sun Oct 03, 2010 11:05 pm

No scooter needs to be on a tender all the time. Rotating one tender among several scooters will work just fine. That is one advantage of charging through the 12V outlet or wiring in the connector that comes with the charger on a scoot that doesn't have a 12V outlet. Makes it quick and easy to switch the tender from one scooter to another.

jasondavis48108 · Post by **jasondavis48108** » Sun Oct 10, 2010 7:38 pm

well I finally got it all hooked up today. Installed the weatherproof while-in-use box on my outside outlet (about $9 from home depot) and bought two waterproof battery Tenders ( about $40 each at Batteries Plus). Its so nice not to have to pull the batteries to charge'em up now. I almost don't lust after a garage now (taht's a lie, I still lust after a garage

)