I think I solved my range problems...

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noisymilk
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I think I solved my range problems...

Post by noisymilk »

Hello all,

If you recall, I'm the fool who's gonna take my Buddy to Canada next spring. And I just found the perfect auxilliary tank to help with my travel range.

http://www.tourtank.com/TourTanks.html

I'm going to put the 2.5 gallon one on my rear rack instead of a top case (which was just going to carry a few containers of gas anyways). Full weight should be around 20 lbs. I believe this is greater than the recommended limit for that rack...but I'm not overly concerned.

Planning on just punching and grommeting a hole behind the tail light, and plumbing in a tank switching lever somewhere on the left side of the scoot (down low, so I could get to it without having to move a set of saddle bags). I'll post pics when I am financially able to do this. Gives me an effective range of about 250-300 miles, depending on the mileage I get when loaded. I am seeing around 80 mpg right now.

Oh! Also found these:

http://www.hyperlites.com/

which come with a mounting bracket that will put them in the perfect position on the scoot. I'm considering the non flashing 16 LED brake/running combo lights. And a big strip of reflective tape on the aux tank. And the white lights up front I have seen some people on this site use (think they are from scooterworks).

And I have found an easy way to put highway pegs on. I will also post photos of that when I am able to get it done.

Just thought some of you might be able to use this info.

Be safe all. :)
-Milk

09 Blackjack
03 Royal Enfield Bullet
'09 Buddy 125 (sold)
'70 Norton Commando (sold)
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ericalm
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Post by ericalm »

The tour tank is great for avoiding running out of gas. The one thing you need to watch out for is heat. The Buddy should cool down every couple of hours or 100 miles or so, especially if you're doing a lot of wide open throttle riding. It's not engineered to go for hundreds of non-stop miles at full throttle. You could wind up with a bent rod or some other type of engine failure.

I mention this because the first Buddy to run the cross country Cannonball was outfitted with a tour tank and heavy rollers. Near the end of the run, it bent a rod. This is pretty unusual for a Buddy and I'm pretty convinced it was due to a combination of unusual demands/stresses and high heat from not stopping to let the engine cool.

Have you read any of the posts or the blog about Alix Bryan's PEACE Scooter trips across the country? She just carried some backup fuel with her, I believe.

All that said, a tour tank is on my Cannonball gear list should I get off my ass and do it in 2012.
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jijifer
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Post by jijifer »

I bet Track Pete would have some sage advice on the matter.
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Dooglas
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Re: I think I solved my range problems...

Post by Dooglas »

noisymilk wrote:I'm going to put the 2.5 gallon one on my rear rack instead of a top case (which was just going to carry a few containers of gas anyways). Full weight should be around 20 lbs. I believe this is greater than the recommended limit for that rack...but I'm not overly concerned.
You probably should be concerned about this. Given the number of rear rack failures that have occurred (search back through past posts), a significant, long term load like this could lead to a weld failure in the support structure of the rack. I suggest you consider reinforcing the stock rack at the welds and braces that would carry most of the weight.
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trackpete
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Re: I think I solved my range problems...

Post by trackpete »

noisymilk wrote:I'm going to put the 2.5 gallon one on my rear rack instead of a top case
In all seriousness... why bother? Is it an aesthetic issue? It just seems to me like a lot of effort (and cost) for very little return. I've seen bajillions of adventure riders carrying spare gas cans, but never seen one actually fit a tour tank (though, for the record, I considered it for about five min on my Vmax).

I was perfectly happy with gas cans on my 16k+ mile ride up there. I did most of it with a 1gal extra can, but agree a 2.5gal is better (I switched to a 2.5gal on the Alaska Highway). I got so used to having it as a back rest that I'm still a little uncomfortable without it, and being able to shift the load around at will is very nice.

As a bonus, I actually replaced the can three times during the trip - not because I needed to, but because twice I was given long rides to town by hunters when I broke down and the nicest way to thank them was to give them my (full both times) gas can (they would have never accepted money or the like).

Most important warning for a Buddy, however: You *need* to pay careful attention to the rear weight because the Buddy suspension system is not designed for heavy weight. There have been problems with overloaded Buddys bottoming out and cracking their gas tank due to excess load on the rear rack. One solution I heard about was welding a steel plate to the bottom of the tank, you may want to do this regardless if you plan on carrying lots of weight there.

As to the highway pegs, definitely a good idea - my stick held up for 14k miles but it was kinda ghetto. ;) Just make sure to load up all your gear and try it out to make sure the pegs are comfortable wherever you mount them.

P.S. If you ever do the Dalton Highway, a 2.5gallon reserve won't be enough. ;)
Attachments
Here's a shot from later in my trip - note that my Rattler has a WAY better suspension than the Buddy, so I loaded it up more.
Here's a shot from later in my trip - note that my Rattler has a WAY better suspension than the Buddy, so I loaded it up more.
gascan.jpg (92.35 KiB) Viewed 1349 times
Last edited by trackpete on Thu Dec 02, 2010 4:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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BootScootin'FireFighter
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Re: I think I solved my range problems...

Post by BootScootin'FireFighter »

Dooglas wrote:
noisymilk wrote:I'm going to put the 2.5 gallon one on my rear rack instead of a top case (which was just going to carry a few containers of gas anyways). Full weight should be around 20 lbs. I believe this is greater than the recommended limit for that rack...but I'm not overly concerned.
You probably should be concerned about this. Given the number of rear rack failures that have occurred (search back through past posts), a significant, long term load like this could lead to a weld failure in the support structure of the rack. I suggest you consider reinforcing the stock rack at the welds and braces that would carry most of the weight.
That and upgrading to a performance shock. Theres the YSS gas piggyback shock for the Buddy... it's over $200, out of my range for now, but a definite upgrade before Amerivespa.

I'd really like to see your peg mod when it's done!
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Alix B
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Post by Alix B »

The Buddy should cool down every couple of hours or 100 miles or so, especially if you're doing a lot of wide open throttle riding. It's not engineered to go for hundreds of non-stop miles at full throttle. You could wind up with a bent rod or some other type of engine failure.
I really don't know how much the engine cools during a 20 min. gas stop. Is that enough? Mid-day is the perfect time to eat lunch and let the scoot rest.

It is definitely hard on the scoot, even more so in a hot climate, to go full-throttle for hundreds of miles. You get out on the road and it feels so damn good to open throttle and enjoy--but try to keep in mind the temperature, the distance being ridden that day. The most I rode in one day was 420ish miles, on average 250ish. I don't recommend it over a long, consistent period of time.

Per gas, the original topic: I was advised to carry a gas can, but I only did for a couple of stretches. The worst states for me were Kansas, Montana and certain parts of California/Arizona. Personally, I didn't like carrying one (uncomfortable and other stuff took priority) and running out of fuel sometimes became part of the adventure. Did I get stuck? Maybe three times in 22,000 miles, but I met some great people.

Otherwise, if I knew gas stations were few and far between, I fueled up when I had the chance, even if it was a quarter tank (heck, that's 25 miles).

However, I'm not familiar with the territory you're exploring.

I agree with Pete, careful on the distribution of weight in the back end. I kept light electronics in my topcase, that was about it. I never reinforced my gas tank.

I used saddlebags and bungee cords to keep stuff at my back. They were a bit tedious to deal with after months, but hey, they distributed weight really well and allowed for much comfort.

On the front rack I kept a waterproof compression sack, holding sleeping bag, towel, tarp. A cheap fix for a tarp is painter's plastic. Get a roll for $4 and cut it to the shape of your tent--saves space and money.

My scoot had the passenger foot rests from Genuine, but they were most comfortable to switch up my leg positioning!

Have fun!
noisymilk
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Post by noisymilk »

Oh my goodness guys! Thanks for all the great replies. And sorry to slow to get back....been away from home for a few days.

So, to respond in order here...

Alix! I read a bunch of your blog after ....Ericalm?....pointed it out to me. Wow. Really really cool ride. I like the brain place you were in taking that ride.

As to everyones response about the tour tank. I just get tired of going to the gas station every 80-100 miles. Not that I intend to do 250 miles straight at WOT. I am only good for about 50-70 at a time, then a good 20-25 minute stretch. Having put some serious miles on my Enfield, which is also an aircooled thumper (across the Arizona deserts in summer), I am hoping a similar regimen of cooling breaks and changing speeds will help keep the piston cool and oil circulating to different engine parts. And this engine seems to shed its heat more efficiently than that, even with only the little air flow vent at the back of the leg area.

Yeah, very very conscious of weight distribution. I appreciate all the heads up about it. Since almost all the weight of this vehicle is in the back, I am searching for ways to move it forward. First and foremost, I am travelling light. Pete...3.8 gallons at 80 ish a gallon isn't enough for the Dawson? Hmmm....ok. Good to know.

I am envisioning my scoot like this (and please punch holes in the ideas, I am very open). Tour tank in the back. Saddle bags (which strap below the seat so I can refuel with them in place) on either side. Spares/tools in the dog carrier. A backpack like thing (small wetbag?) strapped to front of leg area (trying to not block airflow to the head). Front rack of some variety to move weight over front wheels.

total clothing (what I'm not wearing should fit in one saddle bag)
2 jeans (or 1 Kakdu Walkabout pants and 1 shorts)
3 t's
3 underwear/socks
1 hoodie
1 heavy jacket/gloves
1 longjons

some food in other saddle bag
Dog house with:
1 throttle cable
1 rear brake cable
1 set tools (I have a pretty established set of tools to carry with...need to get specials IE whatever socket for variator belt change/wheel sockets)
1 variator belt
1 wheel patch kit
1 turn signal bulb
1 headlight bulb

out front = wetbag with tent/sleeping bag (or maybe sleeping bag strapped behind me as back rest....don't know. I sit pretty far back on the seat).

And don't have a plan for the backpack in the leg area, but know I am not thinking of everything yet for this trip.

And for sure a rear shock upgrade of the NCY or YSS variety. Perhaps front shocks too.

And Pete, I loved the stick as highway pegs. I noticed that in the first video of yours I saw posted several months ago and thought it was awesome.

Thanks all. Be safe out there.



Where should I shift my thinking?
-Milk

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trackpete
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Post by trackpete »

noisymilk wrote:Pete...3.8 gallons at 80 ish a gallon isn't enough for the Dawson? Hmmm....ok. Good to know.
I'm assuming that the Buddy will have the same issues as my Rattler and get *nowhere* near peak MPG when dealing with wind and hills. Up north especially, it was not at all uncommon for me to get down to 60MPG or lower due to the harsh environment (even though I often would get up over 100MPG in other conditions).

I'm with you - I hate stopping that often and dealing with gas (especially pumping it, paying cash, ending up with candy bars, etc.). It's much easier to do 3-4 gallons at a time and turn it into an event (i.e. lunch + gas).
noisymilk wrote:I am envisioning my scoot like this (and please punch holes in the ideas, I am very open).
I think in general you've got it set well. I would warn that you may wish to consider more warm gear. It may take a couple hours but you can easily become cold soaked on a 70 degree day without sun - I often found myself chilly after an hour of riding in weather where I was boiling and tearing off layers within two minutes of stopping. Best layers for that are down IMO, since they compress easily.

Random other bits:

If you don't end up with much on the floorboards in front, that might be the best place to keep your spare fuel.

If you go full-face helmet, you may want to consider a hydration pack. Instead of wearing it you can just hang it from the front. Personally, I liked to get 64oz diet sodas and stick 'em in the cell holder then refill it for like $.30 all day. ;x

Don't forget you need to change the trans oil every 1k miles (I assume the Buddy is the same here). Carrying a liter is a bit bulky, for a shorter trip it may be worth transplanting some into a smaller bottle - and watch out for it leaking. (I went so far as to duct tape the crap out of my tops and pack it twice in plastic bag and still somehow stuff would seep out)

Speaking of which, don't forget duct tape and spare spark plugs (always at least two IMO). A couple times I burned through good plugs in <500 miles due to really bad gas.

I would never wear jeans for long trips, personally. They don't cut wind at all, get nasty when you sweat a lot, and don't offer much protection at all if you go down. I prefer good hard shell trekking/mountaineering pants personally. Then maybe add a pair of good fleece sweat pants since you can wear them around camp comfortably and also use them as an insulating layer if it gets cool.

Use cash to pay for gas, not a credit card (this will be necessary in most of Canada anyway as they don't take US cards at most pumps). Every time I go on a long trip in the US I keep having my cards turned off as part of the automated fraud detection (low $ transactions in random places repeatedly). It's annoying.

Make sure your saddlebags are waterproof or use drybags inside them. I test the waterproofness of gear by leaving it in the shower at full stream for half an hour with a bunch of toilet paper inside. Most "waterproof" stuff is not at all up to the task of rain at 30+MPH for long periods of time.

Um, and then, after all of that, I'm going to give you the "real" advice: Don't worry about it too much, either way. Just be ready to adapt.

Whatever you set out with won't be perfect, so don't waste too much effort trying to make it so. Just accept that you might be crashing a salvation army store for some extra sweat pants or buying more bungees at a gas station or what-have-you.

I always make this big spreadsheet on google docs before a trip that contains every detail of everything I'm going to bring, then I end up just deciding to ditch half of it the morning I pack everything up... lol.
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Dave
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Post by Dave »

Your spare parts stash should include a stator assembly.
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