scootering on snow.

[Cheshire]

Reason #36718blah why two wheels beats 4: You can't pick up your car and pull it back onto the road. Stupid snow. First time in 13 years and at least as many snow storms that I've slid, and I end up driving in pretty much every storm I've had a license through. (translation: I'm Not Happy with myself.)

So...at least I have my trusty scooter. The main roads have been slagged into submission, but my 1/2 mile road hasn't been touched. Any tips on scootering on snow, or just when the roads are iffy? I've been slack this winter and got used to giving in to the subaru's temptation.

I've heard from some dualsport riders a trick of "wrapping" a rope around the tire and rim for the equivalent of motorcycle "chains", though I'm not too sure how well that would work on the scooter or how fast I'd wear through rope, what it'd do to traction, etc.

Suggestions, ideas, brainstorms?

[Cheshire]

If all else fails, I could probably shovel a single-track down the street...but my poor back wouldn't let me forget it for at least the rest of the day if not the next. I'm looking to avoid that.

[Sparky]

It's a bit like asking how to snowboard down K2. Technically, theoretically possible...but not a good idea. Scooters get squirrely on dirt and gravel. Snow's outside their performance envelope.

I've scooted once or twice through a spring snowstorm--the type that had slushy snow on the ground. One of the most terrifying experiences of my life.

[Cheshire]

I kinda figured as much, but was hoping maybe there was some tricks I hadn't been exposed to. Hey, worth a shot, right?

[ericalm]

I've heard from some dualsport riders a trick of "wrapping" a rope around the tire and rim for the equivalent of motorcycle "chains", though I'm not too sure how well that would work on the scooter or how fast I'd wear through rope, what it'd do to traction, etc.

I think that jrsjr has done this. It works, but I doubt it'll be like driving on dry pavement.

[illnoise]

Yeah, riding in cold is one thing, but riding in snow/ice is just flat-out unsafe.

If you must, I'd just take it super slow, look out for manholes and bridges and other icy patches, and brake/turn super-carefully. And if it's snowing while you're riding, remember visibility is terrible oh my ribs hurt just thinking about my crash on an icy manhole, just stay home!

[jrsjr]

I've heard from some dualsport riders a trick of "wrapping" a rope around the tire and rim for the equivalent of motorcycle "chains", though I'm not too sure how well that would work on the scooter or how fast I'd wear through rope, what it'd do to traction, etc.

I think that jrsjr has done this. It works, but I doubt it'll be like driving on dry pavement.

Yeah, but we didn't use rope. We used steel-core clothesline, not because we were smart or anything, that just happened to be what they had at the nearby hardware store. My motorcycle had spoked wheels so we laced the wheel one way and then the other way, so that there was a cross-pattern of clothesline on the tires. It looked like shoelaces crossed where the rubber meets the road. The big secret was that I was riding a motorcycle (KZ400) with a clutch, so I could carefully modulate power to the rear.

We did this during an ice storm in Atlanta in 1980 or '81. It worked surprisingly well until I got cocky and stopped partway up an icy hill. I slid backwards, laid the bike over, then slid all the way back down the hill (with me screaming bloody murder the whole way, you can be sure). So, no, not exactly like driving on dry pavement.

As illnoise sagely notes, when there's frozen stuff on the ground, the smart play is to just stay home.

[trackpete]

The same advice that applies to anyone driving in snow: get proper tires. I know some guys that take new tires and screw bolts into them, but I'm not sure if there are proper snow style tires that will fit on most scooters (ATV tires are usually too wide).

Nothing else is really going to make it manageable, although the low center of gravity of most scoots makes them good on slippery stuff as long as they can get traction.

You could also try mounting skis on outriggers.

[Cheshire]

Thanks for the input, everyone.
Next scoot/mc will have the option for knobbies, I've decided. Something I can stud. Just got back from walking the dog to check things out: the main road is fine, so I'll try walking the scooter to there. My road's still tundra, but it's a dead end and traffic is almost non-existent and can be heard coming almost from one end to the other.

The next few days are forecast to be in the upper 30's to lower 40's: maybe it'll melt enough I can go rescue my poor car!

[ericalm]

I'm pretty sure you can find 3.5 x 10 knobby tires. The Heidenau K58 Snowtex come in Buddy size, too.

[Cheshire]

Thanks, Eric. I had discounted Heidenau because (last time I checked) they didn't have a nearby dealer that carried them. Apparently they do now...I'll look into those!

Just got back: that was WAY more fun than it should have been! If anyone is thinking of following suit, let me state that if the main roads hadn't been salted to oblivion and in VERY clear condition AND I lived on a road that had any more traffic than it does (ie: next to none), I probably wouldn't have risked it. Also, I was wearing all the gear I had, both armored and insulating and spent most of the morning reading up on winter riding. (here, Rounders MC forum, ADVrider, Scooter in the Sticks winter tips, proficient motorcycling book, etc.)

I never let my speed get into double digits until I got to clear roads: the idea was if I slid to just plant my heels and stop, which happened a couple times. My boots never left the ground. I let them slide over the snow and icy spots as outriggers. (Thanks for the idea, Pete.) Once I got near the main road, I slowed down to a crawl until I had solid pavement connecting with unslushed rubber. Then it was just a matter of choosing lane position based on where the sand and snow (blowing off car roofs) wasn't. It wasn't near as bad as I had set it up to be in my mind. Getting back onto my road, though, was. It's a steepish uphill off of the main road. I (very slowly, once I left clear pavement) rode it out until the rear tire started spinning, then just stepped off and guided the scooter under its own power up the hill. Part of the time I was holding it up, but once I got halfway up the hill I had enough packed snow and car tire tread paths to hop back on, feet skimming along, and ride the rest of the way home.

Free! Free! I'm not stuck twiddling my thumbs if I really don't want to be! (And that makes all the difference in warding off cabin fever.)

[Lovelandstella]

I have thought alot about this and I want it to happen so bad! I am right there with you! cabin fever = sad face.
but my train of thought leads me in a different direction.
different from a "rope around a tire" and driving with your feet forever in contact with the road and thus snowing up your boots tempting frostbite and risking hitting a rock or ice chunk and breaking a foot (a very real threat in my neighborhood) and maybe even going off-road like a snomobile(!)
I am confident that the solution lies somewhere in a combination between this and this
the 1st transfers the axel moving to a series of gears that move a tank-like tread (perfect for snow, mud, sand, etc)
and the 2nd one is a good way to direct the travel (steer)
* perhaps a ski in front and somehow 2 tracks in the back?
* or maybe somehow a track in front and a track in the back?

I haven't worked it all out yet (past a gleam in my mind) but it's got to be possible to do something as simple as changing the tires for another "aparatus" and then driving in bad weather.

the trick is exactly What "Aparatus" for front and back and then how to exactly manipulate that aparatus to the confines of the scooter's wheel's properties: Height, mounting, etc...

What do you all think?

[Cheshire]

The trick I garnered from the dualsport forum with using your feet is you don't just drag your foot. I should've clarified, I guess.
What I did was let my feet skim, heel gliding over the surface when I needed the extra support (which was the whole time I was on my road) with the toe pointed upward. When I hit a chunk of ice that wasn't loose, my foot just bounced over it. Oh, yeah: keep your knees bent.
And don't aim for stuff that looks like chunks of ice.

If you'd like a visual of this, look up some dirt track motorcycle racing on youtube. They use their feet through the curves. The pro's have steel plates strapped to their shoes for protection against terrain. I think that would be overkill in this case. As for frostbite, my winter boots are waterproof and rated for -40. I wasn't worried. As soon as I got to clear pavement I rode with my feet on the floorboard.

I don't think you'd need to go as far as cat tread. Knobby tires should do just fine. I'm running Vee 134's: more of a sport-street tire.

[BootScootin'FireFighter]

what really would be sweet is a way to intall that slide scooter thingy on a quick release. on and off with a few short adjustments, sort of like locking my feet into my snowboard. That way when I feel so inclined to venture off to the far reaches of Quebec in February, I can carry it along with my gear and it's just a quick minute on and off instead of having to swap out the entire wheel.

[trackpete]

If you want to get really crazy, you can always make like the guys at Fritz Repair in Seattle or some of the guys at Genuine and modify a scoot with studded knobbies in back and a ski up front.

Jake was telling me how much fun they had tearing it up last winter until the ski snapped in front. I think Ryan @ Genuine and another guy were telling me they actually raced in front of a crowd with a similar setup, to everyone's intense enjoyment.

[TVB]

what really would be sweet is a way to intall that slide scooter thingy on a quick release. on and off with a few short adjustments, sort of like locking my feet into my snowboard. That way when I feel so inclined to venture off to the far reaches of Quebec in February, I can carry it along with my gear and it's just a quick minute on and off instead of having to swap out the entire wheel.

Or you could buy another scooter and just grab the appropriate one for conditions that day.