Introduction 1.0; what to buy?

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Midnight Drifter
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Introduction 1.0; what to buy?

Post by Midnight Drifter »

Alright folks, I suppose I should introduce myself here - not with too much flair, but just enough to turn heads. So without further ado...

Heya, forum. My name is Midnight Drifter. I go by this alias pretty much everywhere. I even occasionally prefer being called 'Drifter' in real life in lieu of my real name; strange one I am, huh? I'm 21 3/4 years of age, male. Born in Kentucky, but spent 99.8% of my life being raised in not-so-good ole Jersey.

I live up to the definition of the term "Drifter" typically more in the traditional sense than in the 'modern' sense. More on that later. I always enjoyed the feeling of running out the door on anything but a late fall to super-early spring night, climbing behind the wheel and just seeing where I end up in the next hour or two. As I like to say, "I go where the night takes me"... hence being a Drifter.

I've been through a lot of cars in my short time on the road, and racked up tons of miles; I think I've driven roughly 70,000 miles. And the variety is wide; A '97 Supra, a '93 Legacy L, a '87 Corolla, a '87 Supra Turbo, a '86 Grand Marquis, a '85 Century and finally my latest - hopefully permanent with no blown engine or accidents - ride is a 2010 Toyota Yaris 3 door. 3 of 'em have been slapsticks including the latest addition, the other four slushboxes; I blew the Mercury's transmission through trying to emulate a manual shift.

I've got a line of work, but it ain't much; just .45 over the federal/state minimum. (yeah, New Jersey sucks with wages, too) Still, it keeps the car payments in check and still affords such luxuries as an almost full-time diet of fast food and an unlimited usage Blackberry. Am trying to move up, but I may need to seek higher education since a high school diploma really doesn't do much these days. I've always been into tinkering with - and more importantly, driving or riding - cars and stuff, and also enjoy Anime and games. Most definitely a Generation Now, I am although I am finally starting to appreciate all the stuff that came BEFORE I was born (as opposed to just those lovely, boxy '80's cars).


Well, enough of that static; onward to the main attraction - as in, why I'm here. The general rule of thumb tends to be, if there's an enthusiast following for something then it must be good. OBVIOUSLY there is an enthusiast following for the Buddy or else I wouldn't be here! I've never heard of Genuine scooters before but I must thank my fiancee to getting me into scooting. I've always loved motorbikes; in fact, I had a Honda XL350 right up until I was old enough to drive (so it ended up being sold for the Supra instead of me tagging it :/), but I always thought scooters were just toys until I discovered she was using hers for daily transit and loved it. Now with gas prices reaching higher levels, and me just kind of getting frustrated at dense traffic the urge to scoot hasn't been greater. Motorcycles are just too clunky and now that I KNOW there's models that can keep up with Speed Limit 55, I want to RIDE!

So here comes the decision... or rather, indecision. When I was at a scooter shop in downtown Philly I couldn't make heads or tails between a Black Jack, a Sachs MadAss, a SYM Symba and a gorgeous Bajaj Chetak. (what a funny name, by the way) Would have considered the Stella if it wasn't nearly 4k out the door O_O

The Buddy (in general) I wanted because it offered something more substantial than my motorcycle test-bike (a Vino 125) but still had the convenience and seamlessness of a modern bike.

The MadAss was... well, flat out mad. It looks like an absolute thrill although its lack of displacement kind of makes me think twice, along with the lack of bodywork for heavy rain-riding. At least those airdam things offer some kind of leg protection. It's still one awesome concept and, since I typically work until 10PM or later, the bright headlights are an EXCELLENT bonus!

The Chetak looks and acts just like a Vespa, although it sure don't sound like one. Still, the novelty of a 4 speed twist grip shifter and the raw authenticity of the machine is something to behold. I'm not sure if they're even good quality models though, never heard of Bajaj but considering it's already 9 years old and still running like new implies it's at least of moderate quality.

Finally, the Symba. The 110cc engine makes me think twice... but then I remember, it's a Honda engine more or less, and there's a nearly unlimited aftermarket for it! On top of that, I always considered it the 'metro' version of my Trail 90, minus the handy dandy 2 speed stump-pulling transfer case. That gives it tons of sentimental appeal because I just love my 90 to bits and am going to hate parting with it since I was given it without a title. :cry:


So the question is... which path is the right one? To ease confusion, let's set the basics:

-I commute to work about 12 miles in one direction. Average speed limit is 45, with there being a short stretch of 55 zone on the way home. (Work is southbound on a divided highway)
-I'll be riding in all conditions where it's above 15* farenheit and there's no ice warning, not currently snowing and at least a bit of salt on the ground below 25* - and pretty much all the time when it's not freezing.
-I would consider being able to travel the Garden State Parkway as a nice bonus, so a machine that can maintain at least 60 flat out for stretches of 20 or more miles would bump it into a 'hey, I don't need the Yaris to go to the beach!' territory, and make seaside summer parking a breeze 8)
-I'm seeking minimal maintenance; I don't mind changing the crankcase with some fresh Royal Purple every 1,000 miles but I worry about a Vespa-bike's transmission cables and clutch wearing out.



I am considering holding off for the Buddy 170i because from what I've been reading that thing should be able to cruise at 65 without being flat-out all the time, and it IS interstate legal. Question is, should I?

I don't quite have enough credit right now in spite of my car loan to make any moves, but I'd love to hear which decision would be the wisest for the long term.


*= the modern term for 'Drifter' is one who kicks their car sideways around corners and makes lots of noise and tire smoke. I do a lot of that, too. ;)

p.s. If anyone's interested in a '79 CT90 that to the best of my knowledge just needs an ignition coil to run (very weak spark), a '84 Yamaha BW200, a '96 Honda Z50R that needs some TLC, a '83 Suzuki Quad Runner 50 or an '00 Polaris Xplorer 4WD quad, I'm trying to get rid of all of them to make some garage space. Right now, I don't have enough for my future scooter! LOL!
TVB

Re: Introduction 1.0; what to buy?

Post by TVB »

Midnight Drifter wrote:Bajaj Chetak. (what a funny name, by the way)
Sure, if you're not from India. :) The company name Bajaj is from the founder (an associate of Gandhi), and Chetak was the famous horse of an old Hindu war hero and ruler.
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Re: Introduction 1.0; what to buy?

Post by charlie55 »

Midnight Drifter wrote:More on that later. I always enjoyed the feeling of running out the door on anything but a late fall to super-early spring night, climbing behind the wheel and just seeing where I end up in the next hour or two.
Hour or two? New Jersey? Probably just the end of your driveway. :wink:

I think that the Buddy would be a very good fit to your commuting needs, but frankly, I wouldn't go with anything less than a good 250 ("good" meaning not a product of the "Double Lucky Golden Sparrow Scooter and Pickled Dumpling Manufacturing Group"), or perhaps the Blur 220i for banging around the GSP. Doing just 60 is an open invitation to a closed casket funeral. As you know, everyone does about 80 in the posted 65 areas, and about 79.5 in the posted 55's.
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Post by Howardr »

Heya Drift, welcome to the forum. Very nice introductory post BTW.

I used to live in Jersey in the early 80's. Have they repaired any of the potholes since then? They were awful back then.

This being a Buddy forum, there is a certain degree of vias, although not much. There are a lot of us that have several scooters of different manufacture.

For your commuting needs, I think a Buddy 125 or 170 would probably work. At 110cc, I just don't see the Symba working unless quite a bit of modding was done.

There is a very recent thread on the MadAss vs the Buddy, check it out:
viewtopic.php?t=17672&highlight=madass

As far as your recreational needs, I agree with the earlier post about looking for a 250 unless you've got some back roads to get to the ocean.
If you can take slower back roads, then you still would be well served with a Buddy. I think the MadAss would be out because a Buddy will carry your beach stuff, the MadAss, not as well.

Again, welcome to MB

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Re: Introduction 1.0; what to buy?

Post by Dooglas »

Midnight Drifter wrote:I am considering holding off for the Buddy 170i because from what I've been reading that thing should be able to cruise at 65 without being flat-out all the time, and it IS interstate legal. Question is, should I?
If you have already decideded Buddy is the way to go, then I'd certainly home in on the 170i. I believe that fuel injection is a big positive step and is worth some wait and cost.
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Re: Introduction 1.0; what to buy?

Post by Kaos »

Dooglas wrote:
Midnight Drifter wrote:I am considering holding off for the Buddy 170i because from what I've been reading that thing should be able to cruise at 65 without being flat-out all the time, and it IS interstate legal. Question is, should I?
If you have already decideded Buddy is the way to go, then I'd certainly home in on the 170i. I believe that fuel injection is a big positive step and is worth some wait and cost.
Though don't discount the ole' 125's either. They're good for 65ish stock and will likely be a lot less out the door than the brand new unreleased 170i's will be.

And on the Bajaj note. They're awesome bikes, but they're pokey. It'll do 55.... eventually. They're really reliable but also require more maintenance than a more modern bike (The Bajaj is loosely based on the 80's Vespa's)
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Re: Introduction 1.0; what to buy?

Post by Dooglas »

Kaos wrote:Though don't discount the ole' 125's either. They're good for 65ish stock and will likely be a lot less out the door than the brand new unreleased 170i's will be.
Agree. If best bargain is the goal, then Buddy 125 should be seriously considered. If best, and most versatile, performer is the goal - then look hard at the 170i IMO.
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Post by hardd1 »

didn't POC Phil ride a MadAss cross country?
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Post by BuddyLicious »

hardd1 wrote:didn't POC Phil ride a MadAss cross country?
Yeppers,Phil rode the MadAss across Country some 2,850 miles.Here is an interview of Phil talking about the journey while at the 2010 Dealer Expo.

I like the uniqueness of the MadAss,it looks like a cross between a moped and a small motorcycle.A good 2nd or 3rd bike after Genuine scoots of course.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/fXC_Roor3fM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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Re: Introduction 1.0; what to buy?

Post by Rob »

TVB wrote:
Midnight Drifter wrote:Bajaj Chetak. (what a funny name, by the way)
Sure, if you're not from India. :) The company name Bajaj is from the founder (an associate of Gandhi), and Chetak was the famous horse of an old Hindu war hero and ruler.
I'm not sure if you remind me more of Wilson from Tool Time or Cliff Clavin of Cheers. :P

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TVB

Re: Introduction 1.0; what to buy?

Post by TVB »

Rob wrote:I'm not sure if you remind me more of Wilson from Tool Time or Cliff Clavin of Cheers. :P
It's a little-known fact that I was the model for both characters. :D
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Post by gtmotor »

Get a Blur!

Especially if you like fast vehicles... a normal scooter likely won't cut it for you after awhile when it's topped out around 60 mph.

I paid $3500 out the door for mine by the way. It was brand new, just had some slight damage from being shipped on one of the fairings.
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Post by Midnight Drifter »

I'm seeing some really sweet deals for Stellas out there, too... I'm not too familiar with the two-stroke game, (though I do love the sound of 'em) but what kind of power gains can be had from those?

Typically, an upgraded 'expansion' type muffler and a reed kit really 'wakes up' dirt bikes and also makes them obnoxiously loud (I like loud 8) ), same effect on the Stella?
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Re: Introduction 1.0; what to buy?

Post by MYSCTR »

Midnight Drifter wrote:Alright folks,

I don't quite have enough credit right now in spite of my car loan to make any moves, but I'd love to hear which decision would be the wisest for the long term.

LOL!
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By the time you have the money you will know what you want is my guess.
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Post by Midnight Drifter »

Well I think at my young age it might benefit to get and then pay off a loan... Yanno, to vuild credit.

Just sayin'
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Post by gtmotor »

Credit is overrated. If you NEED to take out a loan so you can get to work that is one thing. If you are buying the scooter for fun and for work then I'd recommend paying cash.

I don't take out a loan on anything unless it's absolutely necessary. I strongly believe in living within your means as it can be a very slippery slope once you start spending someone else's money.

I'm not much older than you by the way. I don't have a loan on anything except my house so I'm not just talking out my a$$ :D
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Post by Midnight Drifter »

Duly noted. I do have about 2k at my disposal, which is why the Stella 2T is starting to look very tempting. (A few good examples are right around the 2k mark near me)

So yeah... about its performance?
TVB

Post by TVB »

Midnight Drifter wrote:Well I think at my young age it might benefit to get and then pay off a loan... Yanno, to vuild credit.
That's not a bad idea, but the best way to do it is to take out a loan you don't need. Save up most of the money, get the loan, then pay it off ahead of schedule.

I basically use my credit card like next month's debit card; I never charge anything unless I know I'll have the money for it when the card's payment is due. The bank seems to like me for this, because they've upped my credit limit so many times it's now equal to a year's take-home pay. :shock: I'll "never" use that, but it's there in case all hell breaks loose in my life.

The only loans I've taken out have been for the first car I bought after school before I'd had time to save anything (which I paid off early), and when a crappy insurance settlement on a totaled car at the same time I was unemployed, forced me to borrow half of the money for the replacement. That last time the woman who gave me the loan congratulated me on my credit rating, so I must be doing something right.
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Post by gtmotor »

Performance is "meh". The real appeal to a scooter is it's utility, ease of use, and to me... their handling characteristics (which is directly proportional to it's weight).

If you have a lot of highway or straight 45+ mph riding it may get old real fast. If you want performance, you can't beat a sport bike.

I love being able to carry stuff in my scooter in the lockable storage under the seat. That and the ease of use in heavy traffic are the main reasons why I chose the Blur over a Ninja 250 8)

What about a Ruckus? Tons of my friends in the car scene are into those and you can mod the crap out of them. I just wouldn't want to go 70 mph+ on 10" wheels with drum brakes like some people do...
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Post by Midnight Drifter »

I'm not quitr sure just what it is, but the looks of the ruckuses just never sat well with me. That said, the only performance I'm looking for is the ability to consistently hit 65 mph in most flat conditions.

A few-years-old Stella appears to be a GREAT bargain but just going by what's been said in this thread, I'm not sure if it has the guts to.

I do like modifying and tinkering with things, that's also why I'm asking :)
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Post by ericalm »

You'll have to modify the Stella to get a consistent 65mph, even on flats. There are some stock 150cc scoots that'll hit that, but it will usually be at the top end of their range.

The 170i may be a better bet for you if you don't mind waiting.

If you're wanting something for frequent freeway riding, I wouldn't recommend anything under 200cc or so. Even modified, the smaller scoots don't do well on the big interstates. Oh, sure, some people do it and I'm sure they'll chime in… 
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Post by Midnight Drifter »

Well, it's not like I plan on riding flat-out on the interstate for miles on end, but this is New Jersey here - where 65 in a congested 45 is a frequent occasion. Sure, speed limits are enforced... but most drivers don't care about that until they're one ticket away from a suspended license. Then it's the end of the world and they're Joe Lawful.

Then there's the fact that NJ's road system was almost designed to make you take the Turnpike or Parkway if you want to get anywhere fast. So the extra little bit always helps. Of course, on a scooter, I'll probably be actively seeking alternate routes, just for the joy of being able to slice through dense traffic with ease, laughing all the way as I routinely ace 80 MPG. :lol:
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Post by dwayneed »

I wouldn't want to ride my Black Jack or my Stella over 55mph for any length of time, that is more or less wide open and driving the machine really hard. Sweet spot for the Stella or Buddy IMO is 35-50ish.

One of us on here is gonna have to ride BOTH the 2T and 4T for a length of time if any fair comparisons are going to be made.
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Post by Midnight Drifter »

Huh, no kidding? When I was a younger sprite (and thus thought all laws didn't apply to me because they'd get sealed at 18 ) I used to ride my CT90 all over the place. It topped out at 45, and I was always running it flat-out. After 500 miles, it still has good compression and stuff... just right now, the thing's got almost zero spark so it can't catch at all. (heard it's either the coil or the 'condenser') I really thought these machines were designed to be ran at their top speed, since with the CT90 at least, 45 MPH was well below the engine's 'redline'. (There's actually markings on the speedo that show how far you could take a gear to, the mark for fourth gear was 58 )

Even the Vino 125 test bike that I spent a week riding around flat-out at 52 MPH [indicated] didn't seem be bothered much by it as the engine wasn't being over-revved.

If money was no object I'd be looking at a Vespa GTS 300. I really enjoy the compact size of scooters - it just seems manufacturers aren't keen on releasing them with large engines for fear of killing their 'green' demeanor. Doesn't the GTS only get 65 MPG?
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Post by ericalm »

You can ride many scoots WOT for extended periods of time. On the smaller ones, you'll wear through the standard parts somewhat faster (tires, rollers, belts) but provided you stop every 100 miles or so to let it cool and keep it close to stock, you're good.

I haven't done a long (meaning more than 1-day or over 200 miles) ride on the Stella yet, but it really won't let you redline in 4th gear. I think you'd have to abuse it to do any harm from simply riding fast. I probably wear it out more running through the gears thn just riding flat out.
Midnight Drifter wrote:If money was no object I'd be looking at a Vespa GTS 300. I really enjoy the compact size of scooters - it just seems manufacturers aren't keen on releasing them with large engines for fear of killing their 'green' demeanor. Doesn't the GTS only get 65 MPG?
Nothing to do with the green; more to do with the form. There are scooters up to 850cc; in the US we have them up to 650 or so. (The market here isn't right for an expensive 2-cylinder scooter.)

The GTS300ie is reported by Vespa to get 65-70MPG (don't know what the official EPA rating is). A Piaggio BV500 gets 55-60MPG; Suzuki Burgman 650 is probably in the same range.

Personally, there are very few of the large-bodied maxiscooters that have much appeal. I know people who like them but for me, part of what I love about scooters is the size. There's already a price/cc discrepancy between scooters and motorcycles and it just gets wider as you go up the scale. A Burgman 650cc Executive is $9K. At that point, I'm getting a Bonneville.
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Post by Midnight Drifter »

That's the whole thing for me. At some point, it becomes more of a two-wheeled sailboat ('land yaht' is a little bit too excessive of a term) than an actual SCOOTER; you can't quite nudge them into the same tight spaces or get away with parking them on the sidewalk, nor can you sneak them into that nice little corner in the garage.

Lay a mega-scooter down, and the repair bill chance goes into the thousands of dollars instead of the hundreds. Not to mention, you're manhandling this big machine instead of being one with your little 2-up. It's just different altogether.


Funnily enough, I find the Kymco People S 250 to be the perfect balance between a Metropolitan and a monster Silver Wing. It's just a wee bit large for my taste, though.
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Post by Midnight Drifter »

After careful consideration and route analysis, I've ruled out the MadAss and Symba. Way too many complaints about rider comfort on the MadAss to be comfortable with long trips, and the Symba doesn't have as much pickup as I was initially expecting.


So that leaves me two options:

1: Stella 4T (Or a GREAT deal on a 2T... or even a really clean '80's Vespa PX?)
2: Buddy 170i


Eric, have you ever ridden a 4T Chetak to be able to judge out-of-the-box power compared to your Stella 4T? I know they're both 150cc, but I heard the Chetak has an engine that's Bajaj's own design, while the Stella is an LML-exclusive engine...? :?

It looks like I'll be waiting it out for BOTH models to arrive, but early input never hurt anybody. It's really hard debating which of the two is better because they are both very appealing, the Stella being the more charismatic one and the Buddy being the more ready-able-and-willing of the two, if that makes sense.

Time now to start preparing for the new addition; setting up my Ebay store and hoping some lucky bidders can free up some garage space. :P
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Post by ericalm »

Midnight Drifter wrote:Eric, have you ever ridden a 4T Chetak to be able to judge out-of-the-box power compared to your Stella 4T? I know they're both 150cc, but I heard the Chetak has an engine that's Bajaj's own design, while the Stella is an LML-exclusive engine...? :?
I have not ridden the Chetak. The Chetak and Stella 4T do both have proprietary engines. Vespa never built a 4T for this chassis.

The Chetaks I've ridden with (on group rides) have had slower top speeds than the Stella. Owners I've talked to about this have reported top speeds of 55mph-60mph. Also, I don't know what kind of performance parts exist for the Chetak engine, but we'll definitely be seeing some for the Stella. More pipes, and probably a big bore cylinder kit.
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Post by TCaruso »

Being a NJ resident myself, I understand your challenges. If you want to get around the state, most streets funnel into a 50-65MPH roadway. We don't really have acceleration lanes or left turn lanes on most major roads. At least legal ones anyway.

I also like the look of the smaller, more classic style scooters but they're usually lacking in displacement and power. The Blur is nice, just not for me.

I've posted on other pages that I put a down payment on a Black Jack with a Prima pipe and decided not to wait for the 170i.

I hope I made the right decision.
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Post by Gurdy »

Buy a used buddy & put a pipe & maybe a big bore cylinder, change the rollers. You'll have a mean scoot.
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Post by Midnight Drifter »

Well, the Stella's frame turned out to be the best fit for my body. (and the Blackjack was a literal pain in the ass; regular 125 felt cramped) I guess that's going to be the choice for me. :3

Gonna try to get a jump on the 4T; the creme white and blue look soooo much better in person. <3
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Post by Midnight Drifter »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKOtwIhisHs


...after seeing this video I'm thinking twice about the 4T. 0.0


I wonder just HOW much work went into those... they're quick as heck!
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Post by BootScootin'FireFighter »

Midnight Drifter wrote:That said, the only performance I'm looking for is the ability to consistently hit 65 mph in most flat conditions.
While you are capable of hitting that speed on flats on the Buddy (125.. which I can speak of), and we've established that it's maxed out. Once you go into the 60-65mph indicated range, that's when it has the tendency to become more unstable, especially if you're in areas susceptible to wind gusts or potholes on those tiny wheels. I'd definitely stay away from GSP, NJT, ACE, or any of the interstates. NJ is a very car and truck dominated state, and it would be very uncomfortable and dangerous. Going to the beach, try US 206 south. And welcome to the forum, I'm just finally reading this post now. I'm from Long Island, and a year and half with the Buddy, haven't made the trip back home to the "Old Country", which I'm hoping to do soon.
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Post by Midnight Drifter »

If I'm hittin the 206, it's for one thing and one thing alone.

NJMP. :D

My route to the shore is local roads to 537 to 539 to 70. :) If people have a problem with me doing the speed limit (50), they can pass me. ;)


Thanks for welcoming me! I also thought I'd chime in that I tried through my regular bank to get a loan; that didn't turn out too smoothly either. :(

So now I'm on the lookout/In the market for a good-running Stella 2T. Modworthiness or otherwise, it's probably the best starter scooter given its great value. There's a lightly scuffed up one going for $1,700 that I'm pretty interested - that's within my affordability range.

Stay tuned.
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