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Tach weirdness

 
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Rippinyarn
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Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 653
Location: Royal Oak, Michigan
Genuine Stella Auto Vespa Rally 180 Honda CTX700 SYM Symba MZ TS 250

PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 3:47 pm    Post subject: Tach weirdness Reply with quote

I noticed that my tachometer on my 220 is reading incorrectly, about 2k low. So much so in fact, that it goes negative at idle. Now, I know that the engine is running and the lumpy idle is normal, so the tach isn't correct. It tops out at about 5k on the road under normal cruising. I just noticed that the normal tach sweep doesn't go all the way with ignition on either.

Has anyone else experienced this? I was thinking electrical, but everything else checks out (including the battery), so now I'm back to a bad tach, but that seems overly simplistic. I'll let the dealer know and let you know what Genuine says when he calls them tomorrow.

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charlie55
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Joined: 08 Apr 2008
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'06 Blur (Sold) '05 Honda Helix (Sold) '76 CB125S (Sold) '06 Honda Helix

PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Almost sounds as if the tach mechanism has somehow become loosened from the dial face and rotated counter-clockwise. With the ignition off, does the needle sit at zero, or below?

Hit any really nasty potholes lately? Also try rapping the headset with a gloved hand and listening for a rattle. Could just be a loose fastener.

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docjones
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Location: Jacksonville Fl.
01 Honda Reflex, 08 Burgman

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thing is under warranty, let the dealer take care of it. That is what warranties are for.
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Rippinyarn
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Location: Royal Oak, Michigan
Genuine Stella Auto Vespa Rally 180 Honda CTX700 SYM Symba MZ TS 250

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's still reading low, but not as much as yesterday... the strangeness continues.

The needle sits below zero with the scoot off, and I'm still not seeing anything over the 5k mark, although the scoot is running very well indeed. I haven't heard back from the dealer, but he is usually pretty good about letting Genuine know about problems, so I'll wait and see what they say before I book an appointment.

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RVRoadTrip
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Joined: 24 Feb 2011
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2011 Genuine Blur 220i

PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Same issue here. Dealer said he would order a replacement tach assembly.
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Rippinyarn
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Location: Royal Oak, Michigan
Genuine Stella Auto Vespa Rally 180 Honda CTX700 SYM Symba MZ TS 250

PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My dealer called the "new tech" that he got assigned (Fish?), and we are still waiting for him to return the call. His voicemail is now full. Apparently, there is no one at home at Genuine Evil or Very Mad

The tach readings got a little better the next day, and now is back to showing a complete sweep on key turn and full (normal) revs in daily use.

I got an EMS (engine) light on a ride last Saturday, but the scoot seemed to still run fine and the light went our after a restart. I'll take it to the dealer on Saturday and we'll run the diagnostic dongle on it. Hopefully, the Genuine tech will have called back by then...

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bcgreaf
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any updates on this? My 220i just starting doing this exact same thing as of yesterday.
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omniphil
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Joined: 25 Jun 2011
Posts: 126

Blur SS220i

PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine has done this since I bought it, for the shadetree mechanics out there I was able to fix it myself.

Take apart the top cover and instrument panel. Get it to the point where you can physically touch the tach needle, i just manually moved the tach needle with my finger carefully to the top of the tach range and back to 0. It resets something mechanically in the tach and it has worked for me...
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Rippinyarn
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Joined: 08 Aug 2006
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Location: Royal Oak, Michigan
Genuine Stella Auto Vespa Rally 180 Honda CTX700 SYM Symba MZ TS 250

PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine fixed itself and so far, so good. No more EMS lights since i switched octane (to 87) either!


Edit: EFL to EMS (what they call it in the manual) And I got one again on Friday, with higher octane fuel in. More details about a new temperature warning light (EMS) below...

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Last edited by Rippinyarn on Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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bosco
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Joined: 20 Mar 2010
Posts: 104
Location: San Jose Ca.
R27

PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Engine light come on when you were out on a long ride?

Apparantly Genuine calls that normal. It is a "cool down" feature that governs the engine if it gets past a certain temperature.

Genuine says running it at full throttle in high heat conditions causes this. the scooter will also run at a limited RPM until it cools down. Key off key on should clear the engine light.

I know it sounds weird, but that is the bulletin we got here at the shop explaining the engine light code at high temp. This is true for the Blur and the buddy 170i.

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Rippinyarn
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Location: Royal Oak, Michigan
Genuine Stella Auto Vespa Rally 180 Honda CTX700 SYM Symba MZ TS 250

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup, my dealer apparently got that service bulletin this week as well. At high temps, the engine outline (EMS) warning lamp (not the engine oil warning lamp), will come on to indicate an over temperature condition. It's true that it's only happened to me when I've been on the highway, but I don't recall it being that hot outside every time. Thinking back, (the last one happened on Friday), I didn't notice any RPM restrictions, but I voluntarily backed way off and got off the highway. The indicator remained lit until I could get back to the house and yes, it went away with an ignition cycle. The average time on the highway before the light illuminates is probably around 15 minutes, with engine speed between 7 and 8k RPMs. Any less than that and the light stays dark. I bet that I haven't seen the last of that warning light, as I thought that I was buying a freeway capable scoot. I hope that I'm not doing any lasting damage to the engine. I guess that they should have gone with liquid (not oil/air) cooling after all! Bigger oil cooler/temp gauge anyone?

The tech had not heard of any tach problems and has a call into PGO on that. He also said that he didn't know of any other Blurs that had stalled, when mine's done it at least three times, mostly at stop lights (without the secret "high heat" engine warning light illuminated). He also has a call into PGO on that one.

I got the oil warning light (steady) yesterday when the BDU oil timer went off. When I changed the oil/filter a few weeks back, I tried to reset the oil timer, apparently without success. I really hate seeing the "engine oil" light come on as I think that the engine is going to seize at any second, or that my filler cap has come off or something else catastrophic. It's a bad practice to use a critical engine health indicator as a "time to change the oil warning lamp" especially if one cannot defeat or re-set it when they change the oil!

I still love my scoot (and can't wait for my new Michelins to go on), but I'm getting sick of the Christmas tree lights and double-secret temp warning programming that they don't tell us about. Also, a engine that will overheat enough to throw a warning isn't appropriate for places where it gets really hot. Watch your RPMs out there.

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omniphil
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Joined: 25 Jun 2011
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Blur SS220i

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is very interesting as I bought the scooter for freeway use too. I am in the 7200-7500 rpm range on the highway as well and wonder about how long the motor will last like that...

What I was thinking is switching over to Mobil 1 10w-40, synthetic oil can deal with alot more heat so maybe that will keep the engine temps down some?

How about a second oil cooler? I'm not even sure where the oil cooler is, but if its a radiator style then maybe a second one can be added to the loop?

I've only had the engine light come on once, and it was at 9000 rpms during a top speed test. The claimed 75mph top speed is due to gearing as the engine maxes out at 75mph at 9000rpms (real 75mph, the dash said 88mph) and to do that you need some downhill... Once the engine light came on i backed way off, as I was getting off the exit I could feel the engine sputtering, i'm guessing the heat was possibly causing vapor lock. Once cooled down it ran fine again...

I try to keep it at 72mph indicated on the highway which is 62mph via my gps. I get a weird wheel vibration right at 70, so I go a tiny bit faster and it smooths out. That's still 7300 rpms or so. I am 6 feet tall and 195 lbs.


Rippinyarn wrote:
Yup, my dealer apparently got that service bulletin this week as well. At high temps, the engine outline (EMS) warning lamp (not the engine oil warning lamp), will come on to indicate an over temperature condition. It's true that it's only happened to me when I've been on the highway, but I don't recall it being that hot outside every time. Thinking back, (the last one happened on Friday), I didn't notice any RPM restrictions, but I voluntarily backed way off and got off the highway. The indicator remained lit until I could get back to the house and yes, it went away with an ignition cycle. The average time on the highway before the light illuminates is probably around 15 minutes, with engine speed between 7 and 8k RPMs. Any less than that and the light stays dark. I bet that I haven't seen the last of that warning light, as I thought that I was buying a freeway capable scoot. I hope that I'm not doing any lasting damage to the engine. I guess that they should have gone with liquid (not oil/air) cooling after all! Bigger oil cooler/temp gauge anyone?

The tech had not heard of any tach problems and has a call into PGO on that. He also said that he didn't know of any other Blurs that had stalled, when mine's done it at least three times, mostly at stop lights (without the secret "high heat" engine warning light illuminated). He also has a call into PGO on that one.

I got the oil warning light (steady) yesterday when the BDU oil timer went off. When I changed the oil/filter a few weeks back, I tried to reset the oil timer, apparently without success. I really hate seeing the "engine oil" light come on as I think that the engine is going to seize at any second, or that my filler cap has come off or something else catastrophic. It's a bad practice to use a critical engine health indicator as a "time to change the oil warning lamp" especially if one cannot defeat or re-set it when they change the oil!

I still love my scoot (and can't wait for my new Michelins to go on), but I'm getting sick of the Christmas tree lights and double-secret temp warning programming that they don't tell us about. Also, a engine that will overheat enough to throw a warning isn't appropriate for places where it gets really hot. Watch your RPMs out there.
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Rippinyarn
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Joined: 08 Aug 2006
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Location: Royal Oak, Michigan
Genuine Stella Auto Vespa Rally 180 Honda CTX700 SYM Symba MZ TS 250

PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It did it again today to me and I happened to have my iphone with me...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xY1P4TXYIys

I'll also forward this to my dealer and perhaps it will help speed up the warranty work request with Genuine Wink

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blurblaine
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Location: Cincinnati, OH
Genuine Blur 150

PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

interesting video ... that is weird. yes, time for pgo/genuine to replace the unit!
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omniphil
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Joined: 25 Jun 2011
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Blur SS220i

PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just got my new tach unit in from PGO. Here's an interesting side question.

Since the new unit has the odometer set to Zero, are you guys planning to just throw it in with zero and live with the odometer being off?

I am trying to figure out a way to get the new unit to be the same as my old unit, but hooking up an electric drill to the speedo cable would take days to get it to 1500 miles that i'm up to now...

I'd really like to avoid have the odometer off...
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illnoise
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Blur 150, various vintage Vespas

PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, my 06 Blur has the upgraded Gmax200 speedo, and the odometer's off. Not too much of a problem, but remember the oil light is based on mileage, so you'll have to ignore it and service appropriately.
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omniphil
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Joined: 25 Jun 2011
Posts: 126

Blur SS220i

PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

illnoise wrote:
Yeah, my 06 Blur has the upgraded Gmax200 speedo, and the odometer's off. Not too much of a problem, but remember the oil light is based on mileage, so you'll have to ignore it and service appropriately.


I may just go to radio shack and get a small 12 volt motor and just hook that up to the new speedo unit and cable.

What I have to figure out is how to power the new cluster off the bike so I can leave it inside while I do this. I'd assume the cluster runs off of 12 volts, i just need to figure out which wires to feed power to...
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