Buddy Flooded?

[booleanman]

So I finally got my NJ license plate and slapped it on the bike last night. I started up the buddy and let it run for a while. I'd taken one technically illegal ride around the block, but beyond that it's been sitting in the garage for the last month.

I got down the road about 200 feet and stopped at a stop sign. While sitting there, the engine stopped. It didn't start again. I wheeled the bike back home and the strong smell of gas made me think it was probably flooded. So I left it for an hour and tried starting it again. No dice. So I left it out over night and tried it again tonight. Nothing.

I pulled open the air filter and some gasoline dripped out. Definite flooding sign yes? I pulled out the spark plug which was coated in carbon. I cleaned that off and verified that it did indeed spark and put it back in. Then I let the bike sit for a few more hours. Nothing.

My buddy does not yet have 2 miles on it and I'm completely grounded. This is after waiting for a month and a half to get into a MSF basic skills course. And my ordeal trying to buy the bike http://tinyurl.com/howga. And working for another month with Genuine, NJ, and NHTSA to get the bike registered http://tinyurl.com/jkwk8; a situation which really should have been taken care of before I entered into the whole scooter ownership process.

Frankly I feel like an a**hole. A major a**hole. Like when Wile E. Coyote runs off the cliff, stops in mid air, feels beneath him for the ground that is not there, then holds up a sign that says a**hole before he plummets to his death.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

[scarabmonkey]

sounds like a call to the dealer...

[jrsjr]

I pulled open the air filter and some gasoline dripped out. Definite flooding sign yes? I pulled out the spark plug which was coated in carbon. I cleaned that off and verified that it did indeed spark and put it back in. Then I let the bike sit for a few more hours. Nothing.

Usually when this happens with modern scooters (of all makes) it turns out that the gas tank has been overfilled and gas has overflowed down into the air filter housing. Once the air filter gets wetted, the bike can't breathe so it won't run. You'll need to dry out the air filter (and get it re-oiled if the Buddy air filter is the kind that uses air filter oil) and any other excess gas should be cleaned out of the cannister and the plumbing leading to it.

Man, you have had some "interesting" experiences getting started scootering. "Interesting" in the sense of that old Chinese curse, "May you lead an "interesting" life.

Scootering is great fun. Trust me. Pretty soon you're going to be toodling around with a huge grin and all this will make one heckuva great story to tell at rallies!

Keep the faith. And, when your nice, new, legal Buddy finally roars to life, please ride safe!

[angieyou3]

ditto on the post above. this also happened to me and my dealer said to also open the gas cap and leave it off for awhile. If you put your finger into the gas opening, you should never fill above the bottom of the white plastic thingy.

[booleanman]

I don't think this is a case of over filling. For one thing, the gague was showing the tank 3/4 full, and secondly, this is the gas that came with the bike from the dealership; I've never had to fill it yet. The only thing I can think of is that the fuel mix being fed in is too rich. My assumption is that trying over and over again to restart the bike is what caused the flooding.

[Dave R]

There is no special metering of the fuel fed to the carburetor, no adjustments to it. I would suggest that if you want to fix it yourself you start by replacing the plug. Next if your air filter is wet from gas remove it and let it dry out. Look for any additional pools of gas and soak them up. There may be an issue with the auto choke on the carb, it is electronically controlled. Again best advice is to have your dealer fix the issues but if you want to go further, locate your carb and make sure the wires for the choke are plugged in. Next you could drain the carb in case there is some debris in it and this will also help if the float is stuck in the carb causing it to overflow. There should be a small drain screw at the base of the carb. Be careful not to run your battery down, you may want to kick start it the next few times you attempt to get it started. Hope this helps, give your dealer a call for sure if you are hesitant at all in the above suggestions.

[gmon]

If it shut down while riding, I would have to make sure the scooter is getting fire. Sounds like a cdi box or a fouled plug. Its under warranty, let them figure it out.

[macgawd]

Pardon my ignorance, but doesn't the Buddy come with roadside assistance? Wouldn't this situation apply? You could at least then have a qualified mechanic take a look at it.

Michael

[booleanman]

I think I'm done with this scooter. I just contacted Genuine directly to ask if I could take the scooter to Scooters Originali, which is not only 20 minutes away me, but also has the best reputation in the area, to get this fixed under the warranty. I was told that I would have to take the bike 2 hours to South Jersey or schlep it back into Long Island, NY to get service. That's just unreasonable. What makes it especially unreasonable is that this is in light of all the leg work I've done on Genuine's behalf and how patient and polite I've been.

They've been selling Buddys in the US even though MPI had not filed everything required with NHSTA and the bikes were technically illegal for import. They've also been selling them in NJ where they absolutely could not be registered. I'm not saying that NJ isn't a pain in the ass, but they could have figured that out with a few phone calls before opening up shop. They could have also taken the time to run a search at NHTSA (which takes only a few minutes) to make sure their manufacturer was in compliance.

I put up with a dealership disaster and a full month of the bike sitting in the garage. I called people frantically for weeks and weeks and boiled everything down for Genuine to the point that I told them to send this specific information to this specific fax number to make their bikes NHTSA compliant. I even negotiated with NJ to figure out what Genuine needed to put on their MSO to make them legal to register in NJ.

Frankly I don't think asking for service at a well established dealer that still sells their Stella bikes is too much to ask.

Every day for over a month I've been coming home and wondering can I ride the bike today, and every day the answer is no. I think I'll just punt on summer '06 and just get a bike next year. With that said I'm going to call the place where I got the bike and see if they'll consider taking it back. Baring that I'll probably just put it up for sale.

[Dave R]

I can't see any reason if Scooters Originali is a Genuine motor Scooter dealer that you can't take it there for a fix ! And yes Road side assistance should help in this case. Have you called S.O. ? I would.
It seems a shame to give up on youir Buddy before you get to have some fun on it !

[booleanman]

I called Genuine and they said that Scooters Originali can't do warranty service. They're not listed on Genuine's dealer page but for whatever reason they're still selling the Stellas, as long as they last anyway.

[Sailn]

You still might want to take it to S.O., even without the warranty. If you sell a non-running Buddy, you will most likely take a bath on it. It might be something very simple.

Additionally, I was of the understanding that roadside assistance should flat bed the scooter to the dealer.

If that fails, are you a member of AAA? If so, you can add RV (for some reason a scooter is an RV) coverage for $30 a year, they WILL prorate the coverage to your renewal date. I know with my coverage, they will flat bed any of my cars, trucks, or now my Buddy, up to 100 miles for free. Also, they will tow or flat bed you from the bar to home if you get tanked, also for free.

It is a real blast to drive from the marina to the bar and then get towed back to the boat at 2 am....

[Dave R]

I called Genuine and they said that Scooters Originali can't do warranty service. They're not listed on Genuine's dealer page but for whatever reason they're still selling the Stellas, as long as they last anyway.

I would have to guess that S.O. is no longer a genuine dealer, that would be the only reason. Have you called the dealer you bought it from ? Have them come get it ! Do you have the road side information, phone number etc...?? 1 866 311-8982
Call them and have them get it to the nearest authorised Genuine dealer.

[jrsjr]

[...Have you called the dealer you bought it from ? Have them come get it ! Do you have the road side information, phone number etc...?? 1 866 311-8982
Call them and have them get it to the nearest authorised Genuine dealer.

Period. Exclamation Point! Whatever it is, it won't be hard for them to diagnose the problem and fix it. Sorry for all your troubles.

[booleanman]

So this is the first I've seen of the 1 (866) 311-8982 number. I called it up and they asked for a policy number that I likewise do not have. I don't have any documentation on the towing service except that "roadside assistance" is printed on the Buddy brochure. They're going to tow the bike back to Staten Island but they wouldn't take it to Haddonfield Scooters, the only official Genuine Scooter dealership in NJ. Which is just more icing on the cake.

I think the problem is as simple as flooding and a fouled spark plug. I really don't care though. Hopefully Staten Island will fix it quickly and I can get rid of the scooter.

[Andrea]

I called Genuine and they said that Scooters Originali can't do warranty service. They're not listed on Genuine's dealer page but for whatever reason they're still selling the Stellas, as long as they last anyway.

I would have to guess that S.O. is no longer a genuine dealer, that would be the only reason. Have you called the dealer you bought it from ? Have them come get it ! Do you have the road side information, phone number etc...?? 1 866 311-8982
Call them and have them get it to the nearest authorised Genuine dealer.

Hi there - Andrea from Scooters Originali here

Actually, we still are a Genuine dealer, and still do warranty work, so I am unsure why Genuine have told him that. I have a feeling it is because I said I wouldn't order any of the new style Genuine's until they sent me paperwork proving that the bikes could be registered here in NJ. They've never sent me the paperwork. I wasn't willing to take the risk of selling the first of the new Genuine line, only to look like a fool to the customer when NJ DMV rejected it. We had such problems getting the Stella registerable as they cracked down on their regulations. I think it was when we were having all the Stella reg problems that Genuine took us off the website. They've never put us back up.

Poor Bool, I am so, so sorry you had to go through all this, and in a way I feel a little guilty that I didn't press harder for the paperwork. If I had pushed, maybe I could have saved you that registration hassle Sorry.

The bike is here now, so we'll take care of her, warranty honoured or not.

BTW, it was very impressive when a big old flatbed pulled up with one little buddy on it. Some of the people in the neighbouring industrial units came out to have a peep at it all, and they're used to bikes arriving every day

Bye for now, and I'll let Bool post whats up with the bike when we take a look at it next week.

Andrea
Scooters Originali

PS. Bool is a geat guy. I can't believe he's been through all this and still managed to keep his cool and remain impeccably polite whilst discussing the scooter.

[Dave R]

I called Genuine and they said that Scooters Originali can't do warranty service. They're not listed on Genuine's dealer page but for whatever reason they're still selling the Stellas, as long as they last anyway.

I would have to guess that S.O. is no longer a genuine dealer, that would be the only reason. Have you called the dealer you bought it from ? Have them come get it ! Do you have the road side information, phone number etc...?? 1 866 311-8982
Call them and have them get it to the nearest authorised Genuine dealer.

Hi there - Andrea from Scooters Originali here

Actually, we still are a Genuine dealer, and still do warranty work, so I am unsure why Genuine have told him that. I have a feeling it is because I said I wouldn't order any of the new style Genuine's until they sent me paperwork proving that the bikes could be registered here in NJ. They've never sent me the paperwork. I wasn't willing to take the risk of selling the first of the new Genuine line, only to look like a fool to the customer when NJ DMV rejected it. We had such problems getting the Stella registerable as they cracked down on their regulations. I think it was when we were having all the Stella reg problems that Genuine took us off the website. They've never put us back up.

Poor Bool, I am so, so sorry you had to go through all this, and in a way I feel a little guilty that I didn't press harder for the paperwork. If I had pushed, maybe I could have saved you that registration hassle Sorry.

The bike is here now, so we'll take care of her, warranty honoured or not.

BTW, it was very impressive when a big old flatbed pulled up with one little buddy on it. Some of the people in the neighbouring industrial units came out to have a peep at it all, and they're used to bikes arriving every day

Bye for now, and I'll let Bool post whats up with the bike when we take a look at it next week.

Andrea
Scooters Originali

PS. Bool is a geat guy. I can't believe he's been through all this and still managed to keep his cool and remain impeccably polite whilst discussing the scooter.

Andrea, great job ! That is customer service at it's best IMPO.. take care !
Dave R

[peabody99]

booleanman must report back, I have been following this bad luck story from the beginning. When Buddy is back on it's feet so to speak, let us know how it goes...and drive carefully!

[jrsjr]

The bike is here now, so we'll take care of her, warranty honoured or not.

Thanks for that, Andrea. There's a reason why folks hold ScootersO in such high esteem.

PS. Bool is a geat guy. I can't believe he's been through all this and still managed to keep his cool and remain impeccably polite whilst discussing the scooter.

I would have freaked out long ago. I just hope he'll give the scooter a chance once you get it running.

[Keys]

I had a similar thing happen to my Buddy at the 25 mile mark. What happened is that the carburetor bowl drain plug (bolt) backed out and went away while I was riding. I was able to limp it home before it ran slap outa gas. It DID, however, quit on me but I was able to get it running again. I initially thought the float was stuck, forcing all the fuel out the overflow hose, but no...it was just the missing plug. I called Scoot Over in Tucson and they had one in the mail to me that afternoon. I expect it to be here Tuesday or Wednesday. I was able to make a temporary fix (pays to have been a motorcycle mechanic in a past life) to get me through the weekend since this is my primary transpo.

I would recommend you check for the absence of that plug before you throw in the towel.

1. Remove the under-seat bucket
2. Loosen the clamp holding the intake hose to the carb.
3. Loosen the clamp holding the carb to the intake manifold.
4. Pull the intake hose off
5. Slide the carb back and rotate it upside down.
6. Look. If it isn't there, there will be a threaded hole just opposite the drain hose.
7. Replace if req'd.

--Keys

[booleanman]

So here's what happened last Saturday. Genuine had sent me an email telling me to take the bike to one of their dealerships, though this did not include Scooters Originali. As Andrea pointed out, Scooters Originali official status with Genuine is a point of confusion that I'm not going to get into here. I'm sure she can do a much better job of explaining why Genuine has decided to snub her dealership. Regardless of whether or not the shop is on Genuine's current approved list, after all I've been though and after helping them make their new product line square with both the federal government and the state of NJ, they should have been cool with me taking the bike ANYWHERE. My contacting them to ask permission was a courtesy and nothing more.

So on Saturday, I tried to play by the rules. My two options were to take the bike all the way to Southern NJ to the only "official" Genuine dealership in the state, or take it back to Long Island, NY, which is more of a hassle. Bear in mind that the Long Island dealership is the same dealership that crashed one bike and apparently did a less than stellar job of prepping the bike I ended up with. Not the best choices.

I called the Genuine roadside assistance service (I was not keen on paying to transport the bike as you can understand) using the number that Dave R was kind enough to post to this forum. This number does not appear on any of my documentation that came with the bike. The operator on the line asked me for my policy number- a number which also does not appear on any of the documentation I have. This had me worried but they were eventually able to look me up by my last name and VIN number. Not wanting to go back to Long Island for the reasons mentioned above, I asked to have the bike towed to Southern NJ. Once that was arranged, I called the dealership and told them I had a bike on the way. They remembered out who I was because I called them about a month ago to ask them if they had sold any Buddys in NJ yet (they hadn't). They said they could fix the bike but it could take as long as four weeks as they were backed up. I really didn't care and I said that was fine.

After I had arranged that, the roadside assistance service called back and said that they could send someone over to tow the bike but it would cost me about $400. Obviously I declined.

At this point I figured Long Island was the only choice, so I had roadside assistance set up a tow for that dealership. Once that was set up, I called Long Island to let them know I was coming to drop off the bike. Turns out that they were closed that Saturday. It's kinda odd cause I originally picked up the bike on a Saturday and it seemed that they were closed early this weekend. They also had no way to drop off a bike after hours.

So Long Island was out. I called back the roadside assistance number and told them to scrap the pickup, and I asked them to suggest another dealership to which they could tow my bike and not cost me $400. They replied that they had no idea where any Genuine dealerships were located.

And that's when I gave up on going to an "official" genuine dealership. Basically I was stuck with a free roadside assistance service that was free so long as I didn't want to get to a dealership and a warrantee that was usable so long as I was ok with renting a truck, which would likely cost more than getting a local mechanic to fix the bike.

At this point I called up Scooters Originali. I spoke with Andrea on the phone and gave her the satellite view of the situation (really, no one likes to hear detailed stories about your trip to the DMV) and asked her if they could fix my bike. In a stark contrast to the level of service I was getting from Genuine, she offered to stay late so I could drop off the bike that day.

I called back Genuine's roadside assistance and had them schedule a pickup for the bike so I could take it to Scooters Originali. The way the roadside assistance works is that they cover based on dollars not miles. So once you're over $150, you have to pay. Considering that Scooters Originali is only 12 miles from my place, Genuine's roadside assistance would have needed to select the most expensive towing service in NJ to blow that equation. Luckily they didn't, and I got a free tow. The downside was I was told that the truck would arrive in about an hour to ninety minutes. It took two and a half. Andrea was nice enough to wait patiently for me while I waited impatiently for the truck.

When it did arrive, I saw that they had sent the world's largest flatbed truck. What was even better was the look on the tow truck operator's face when he saw the Buddy. Apparently the roadside assistance service told him he was picking up a mobility scooter, not a motor scooter, so he was expecting something with 3 or 4 wheels. Thankfully he had enough equipment to tie down the scoot to literally the largest flatbed truck in the world. Seriously, this thing is for transporting intercontinental ballistic missiles, not scooters.

Due to the size of the truck, I was not able to take the quick route to Scooters Originali because it was just not a good idea to go down certain roads. We swung around the long way and we got there about 2 hours behind my intended schedule.

For those of you that haven't been to Scooters Originali or their new location, it can be a bit intimidating if you're not a member of the Scooterati. It's basically a bay in an industrial park in the middle of Orange, NJ. The plus side is that it's obvious that these people are all about scooters all the time. The garage is filled wall to wall with scooters of all makes and the shelves are packed to the ceiling with scooter parts. Out front there's a neat line of scooters and as we were pulling in, two people were having a good time on a Piaggio BV 200.

Andrea came out and helped me wheel the Buddy off the back of the flatbed, which as you know is hardly required as the bike weighs as much as a large dog. She was also nice enough to offer the truck driver a cup of tea before he left. It's the sort of small kindness that is far too easy to overlook and much to genuine to be faked.

And that's how my bike ended up where I should have just taken it in the first place. There are some things I learned from my delightful conversation with Andrea:

1. Scooters Originali is a genuine dealership, and why Genuine said they weren't isn't perfectly clear.

2. Scooters Originali has serviced Stellas that were improperly prepped by the Long Island dealership where I got my Buddy.

3. Genuine has had the same problems getting the Stella legal in NJ as I had with the Buddy, so it shouldn't have been a surprise.

4. Scooters Originali was not currently selling the Buddy as Genuine did not produce proof that the bike was registerable in NJ at their request.

And we were both familiar with our friend Dave at NHSTA with whom I have been working for the past three weeks. Considering just how helpful Dave had been in explaining what was required to register a foreign manufacturer with NHSTA, and how quickly you could check as to whether or not a manufacturer had met those conditions, I am at a loss to explain why Genuine had not worked this out before selling bikes. Granted it took me about a week's worth of time, piecing information together from various phone calls, to wrap my head around the whole import and registration process. Considering that Genuine has been in the scooter importing biz for a while, I just cannot explain why I had to call them and tell them which documents to send to Dave at NHSTA.

Overall, the amount of support and the politeness that I'm getting out of Genuine varies a great deal based on with whom I speak on the phone. Depending on who you get to speak to, the attitude ranges from "Everything is a dealer problem" to "I'll do whatever I can to help." I'm not going to mention names or launch any personal attacks as that would only reflect poorly on myself. Suffice it to say that I am grateful for the help from certain members of the Genuine team and I hope they know I appreciate it. As a whole, I am very disappointed in the company.

This morning I got an email from Genuine (in a response to a strongly worded email I sent on Friday) claiming that they'll, "provide whatever service necessary to get [my] Buddy to a dealer and running well again... no matter the cost".

I appreciate the sentiment, but the pattern I'm seeing here is the willingness to correct a problem after it occurs and only after I complain loudly. At this point the bike is at Scooters Originali. If Genuine wants to do the right thing, they can cover the work under warranty. I'm not going to hold my breath.

[booleanman]

It turns out the Buddy had more problems than just flooding. Here's what Gene at Scooters Originali had to say:

The Buddy is done. It took one and a half hours to work out the issues with it, which basically boiled down to the float needle being installed incorrectly in the carb (it was in place, but not connected to the float, so that despite several cleanings only a little fuel was flowing into the chamber), as well as the carb being full of dirt and the pilot jet being clogged.

Genuine is going to pay for the repairs and transportation to and from Scooters Originali. By the wording of their responses, it is my assumption that they are paying for this incident, but will not necessarily honor warranty claims at Scooters Originali.

I should get the bike tomorrow. I still haven't decided whether or not I'm going to keep the bike. From what I'm getting from everyone else on the board, it seems to be a solid bike and I still like the looks of it. The quality of the bike at this point is not my primary concern. What this whole experience has driven home for me is just how important an owners relationship with a dealer and even the importer is. I don't have a great deal of confidence for the dealer from which I bought the bike and there are effectively no other options in the area. I'm also not thrilled with Genuine at the moment, theough to their credit they did eventually come around and do the right thing.

Without an "official" Genuine dealership in the area, the warrany is pretty much worthless. Also, I'm still missing the documentation with my policy number and the towing phone number. I can't shake the feeling that if I had gone with Vespa, Yamaha, or Kymco, that this wouldn't have been such an ordeal.

[jrsjr]

I can't shake the feeling that if I had gone with Vespa, Yamaha, or Kymco, that this wouldn't have been such an ordeal.

Don't know about Yamaha or Kymco, but Vespa dealers are all over the map in terms of quality of service, etc. Our sister site, ModernVespa is full of horror stories and stories of folks who <3 their Vespa dealer. Sorry your experience wasn't so great. I hope you get a chance to ride the scooter before you make up your mind.

Ride safe!

[dru_]

Bool,

Sorry to hear about all your troubles. From what I've read around the net (and that's a veritable ton of material in the last month since I decided I was going to join Scooterdom myself), your experience isn't that unusual, and it isn't specific to Genuine. I've seen it with all of the modern scooter brands, especially the Asian brands that aren't Yamaha or Honda with their massive support infrastructures (and i've even seen a few quality of build complaints about Vino's). Unfortunately every manufacturer has it's hiccups, I get the feeling that you are suffering that.

My bet says that when you get it back, you'll be off to the races and within a few hours, your tales of woe will turn into a vague memory behind the ear to ear grin on your face

Andy

[Sailn]

I guess that really is the crux of the issue. When going with one of the really big names, Y or H you really do get a national network and a pretty solid infrastructure. Since they sell a boat load of scooters, there is a good supply of accessories and in general the engineering is good.

That being said, I really like my buddy. I like my dealer. However, I too am not thrilled with Genuine. I hope that my feeling will change. The good news is that it seems like the buddys are selling well. Perhaps better than Genuine evr expected. Perhaps this is just some type of growing pains.

BTW, based on the story from the OP, I have added my buddy to my AAA membership. Breaking down is annoying enough without having to deal with Genuine's roadside assistance policy.

[skootergurl]

One of the reasons I decided to open a Scooter shop was because the 2 other local dealers (Honda, Yamaha, TGB)customer service was a joke! None of the people who worked there were scooter enthusiasts and were not intereseted in learning about them. That said, I believe that the Dealer you purchased your scooter from bears responsibility in making sure your scooter was properly set up and running properly before selling it to you! . We have sold 10 Buddy's 125's and 50's and not had 1 back with any problems. Several have even come in for 300 and 1000 mile break in service so people are driving them like crazy. And not 1 complaint among them. As a Genuine dealer it is MY responsibility to make sure this continues this way and people spread the word about our scooters. I really hope once the problem is resolved you give your scooter a chance to prove to you that you will love it as much as you did when you first got it and all the bad stuff will blow away in the wind

[booleanman]

As a Genuine dealer it is MY responsibility to make sure this continues this way and people spread the word about our scooters.

I completely agree with you. There are other concerns I have though. For whatever reason, I see Genuine supporting a dealership that apparently has a track record of not prepping bikes, and not supporting a dealership that has a repulation for excellent work. Also, it is Genuine's responsibility to ensure that their scooters are legal for import before shipping them out to the dealers and legal specifically in NJ before selling them here.

I concede that the dealership from which I bought the bike is responsible for the latest problem, but there's more going on here.