2008 Buddy/Stella news

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gt1000
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Post by gt1000 »

Saying that tubed tires blowout and tubeless don't is a bit of an oversimplification. Tubeless is inherently safer than tubed in the scenario Drummwoulf explained. However, you will often have plenty of time to safely pull over with a flat on tubed tires and, every now and then you'll have a blowout on tubeless tires.

My wife hit a good sized pothole at 30 mph yesterday. Result: blowout. Tires: tubeless. I know plenty of motorcycle riders still riding on tubed tires (it's a result of many laced wheels not be seal-able for tubeless) who have had no problems with flats or with stopping safely after a flat. It's also important to note that most motorcycles running tubes are doing so in tubeless tires, I don't think that's the case with these scooter whitewalls. But, running tubes in tires, whether the tires are tubeless or not, does increase your road hazard risk. I, and all of my Ducati sport classic friends have been running tubes in tubeless tires for years with very few problems. However, one of these days I'll probably switch to tubeless rims because there is an added safety margin. It's also important to note that if I wanted to switch to a set of tubeless lace wheels, like Alpinas, the cost for 2 wheels is about the same as the cost for a new Buddy 125! :shock:

Finally, there's one other advantage of tubeless tires. If you're out riding and have a flat, you can use a plug kit to fix your tire without removing the tire and wheel. Not a lifesaver, but a huge time and trip saver.
Andy

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Post by ericalm »

gt1000 wrote:Saying that tubed tires blowout and tubeless don't is a bit of an oversimplification. Tubeless is inherently safer than tubed in the scenario Drummwoulf explained. However, you will often have plenty of time to safely pull over with a flat on tubed tires and, every now and then you'll have a blowout on tubeless tires.
Yeah, it's a complete oversimplification, I agree. A MV rider had his rear tubeless blowout on the freeway at speed. He managed to get to the shoulder. It's always a possibility. That said, I think blowouts are probably more common with tubed tires.
gt1000 wrote:Finally, there's one other advantage of tubeless tires. If you're out riding and have a flat, you can use a plug kit to fix your tire without removing the tire and wheel. Not a lifesaver, but a huge time and trip saver.
I still haven't done this but need my rear tire replaced soon (again! already? dang!) so may puncture and plug it at home first just to know I can do it. Of course, if you have a blowout, forget it.
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Post by gt1000 »

That said, I think blowouts are probably more common with tubed tires.
Indeed. All I'm saying is that blowouts with tubed or tubeless tires are much less common these days than, say, Drumwoulf's example citing cars flipping in the 30's. Tire technology has come a long way since then. Modern motorcycle tires are freaking amazing technological achievements. Whether they've got tubes in 'em or not, comparing today's moto tire with what's found on a Model A is like comparing a food processor to a sharpened stone.
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Post by Drumwoulf »

gt1000 wrote:
That said, I think blowouts are probably more common with tubed tires.
Indeed. All I'm saying is that blowouts with tubed or tubeless tires are much less common these days than, say, Drumwoulf's example citing cars flipping in the 30's. Tire technology has come a long way since then. Modern motorcycle tires are freaking amazing technological achievements. Whether they've got tubes in 'em or not, comparing today's moto tire with what's found on a Model A is like comparing a food processor to a sharpened stone.

Sure. True enough... But you still won't find hardly anyone who wants to put tube tires on his (non-antique) car just for "looks," like we crazy bikers do! :roll:
And it's not the tube tires by themselves that are the problem (although they don't have the stiffened upper sidewalls and beads of the tubeless), but the fact that they're usually also mounted on unsealed rims, and/or spoked wheels, that do absolutely nothing to retain air! :twisted:

Anyway people have their own choices to make, whether it's in regard to tires or helmets or whatever... I do think tho that it helps to have as much information as possible prior to making such choices, no? :wink:
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Post by hcstrider »

Drumwoulf, ericalm and gt1000,

Thanks for the discussion on tubeless versus tubed tires, I have learned quite a bit from your comments. I really appreciated the back and forth dialog.
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Post by ericalm »

As promised, larger pics of the 2008 Buddy lineup. I posted them in the Scooter Gallery here:
topic2787.html

Apologies for crossposting in 2 threads!
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More '08 Buddy/Stella News

Post by ericalm »

I got some more info on the '08 Buddys and Stellas yesterday. I hope to have some new Stella pics later the week.

The Stella has not officially gone back into "full" production. The ones that are en route to the US now are 49-state-compliant '07 Stellas which may be in dealers by January. There's no word yet on whether there will be a 2008 production run or whether a possible '08 run would be a 50-state scoot.

In Buddy news, there will be a "Little Italy" 50cc version of the Series Italia. Crazy! I don't know how well the 50s sell, but maybe having a special edition one will make them more appealing.
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Post by maryvu »

The 07's will have the upgrades, right? These are essentially those that were in process when production stopped for the strike?
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Post by golfinguy »

Again off topic, but thanks to the fellas for relating their experiences and knowledge. That's the sort of stuff that makes this forum useful, even if we wind up rasising voices once in a while to get a point across!! Kudos to all :)
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Re: More '08 Buddy/Stella News

Post by BGK »

ericalm wrote:
In Buddy news, there will be a "Little Italy" 50cc version of the Series Italia. Crazy! I don't know how well the 50s sell, but maybe having a special edition one will make them more appealing.
The 50cc Buddies sell well where the laws for 50cc scooters are attractive. In places like California and Ohio where there is no differentiation there doesn't seem to be any draw. But there are many other places in the country where a 50cc means no requirement for endorsement (and sometimes no license at all), lower or no registration requirements and parking allowances on sidewalks and bike racks. It all varies by state and municipality and misinformation abounds. It's amazing how many people have no clue that laws vary from state to state and city to city.
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Re: More '08 Buddy/Stella News

Post by ericalm »

BGK wrote:It's amazing how many people have no clue that laws vary from state to state and city to city.
I think most people know the laws vary, but you're right, a lot of misinformation gets passed along and perpetuated every time it's repeated, becoming the worst kind of "common knowledge."

For instance, I even saw a clip of a CA Highway Patrol officer on a San Diego newscast giving patently untrue, but often-repeated, info about lane-splitting. And the parking myths abound!
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Re: More '08 Buddy/Stella News

Post by Dooglas »

ericalm wrote: In Buddy news, there will be a "Little Italy" 50cc version of the Series Italia. Crazy! I don't know how well the 50s sell, but maybe having a special edition one will make them more appealing.
Not that I don't love the appearance of the Series Italia, but I gotta add that I don't think "friends should encourage friends to buy a 50cc scoot". I've heard all the arguments and I have ridden a couple - I still don't get it. Buy one because you get to ride without insurance (in some states) - thats good? Buy one because you don't need any training or demonstration of ability to ride one (in some states) - that's good? (take a scooter/motorcycle safety course the first chance you get) Ride a scoot that gets no better mileage than bigger and more powerful scoots, has serious top end limitations, struggles in traffic and usually smells bad? I guess that everyone makes their own choice but that was a pretty easy one for me.

(okay, jump on me and explain why I don't understand this one.)
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Post by ericalm »

I think there are a number of reasons that people buy and ride 50cc scoots. One is simply that they cost much less. Second, I think there are a number of circumstances in which a 50cc may be practical and sufficient: for someone living on a college campus, living in a small community, that sort of thing. If my home and work were fairly close and the ride didn't require me to go over 40mph, definitely possible, especially if I also owned a car. Also, I think that a lot of first-time scooterists are a little unsure of their abilities or even if they can handle it and feel more comfortable on something with less power.

At the same time, I also think a number of riders, once they get comfortable on a 50cc, start to yearn for more pretty quickly. We all do.
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Post by Dan Buddy »

My wife and I purchased our first scooters last summer and we both purchased 50cc scooters. We purchased 50cc scooters for a few of reasons.
First, neither of us had previous motorcycle or scooter experience so we wanted to start off small.
Second, we both live within 10 miles of work and we have cars as a backup when the weather is bad (and for the Wisconsin winters)
Third, the 50cc was cheaper than the 125cc. If the scooters turned out to be something we just ended up using on the weekends or for quick trips to the store we wouldn’t be out as much. I had no idea it would be so much fun!

Hindsight being 20/20 I wish I had purchased a 125 but I don’t regret the path we took. I will be getting motorcycle temps shortly and am scheduling motorcycle class when they become available. This spring I am planning on upgrading to a Buddy 150 or a Stella. I need to take a spin on a Stella to see what its like.
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Post by ericalm »

Dan Buddy wrote:My wife and I purchased our first scooters last summer and we both purchased 50cc scooters. We purchased 50cc scooters for a few of reasons.
First, neither of us had previous motorcycle or scooter experience so we wanted to start off small.
Second, we both live within 10 miles of work and we have cars as a backup when the weather is bad (and for the Wisconsin winters)
Third, the 50cc was cheaper than the 125cc. If the scooters turned out to be something we just ended up using on the weekends or for quick trips to the store we wouldn’t be out as much.
Exactly the situation I described! I feel validated.
Dan Buddy wrote:I had no idea it would be so much fun!
I think that's another reason people go for 50s: They don't realize how much they'll want to ride, but once they get on and get going riding is all they want to do.
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Post by lobsterman »

ericalm wrote:I think that's another reason people go for 50s: They don't realize how much they'll want to ride, but once they get on and get going riding is all they want to do.
I love to ride, but it doesn't take me long to think of one or two other things I also want to do... but maybe that's just me.
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Post by strawberrykiwi »

When will the 2008 Buddies be available?
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Post by ericalm »

strawberrykiwi wrote:When will the 2008 Buddies be available?
There's not a definite date yet. The '07s came in around February. I'd guess sometime in the first quarter.
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Post by Corsair »

has anyone got to ride one yet? any more reviews for the new releases?
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Post by ericalm »

Corsair wrote:has anyone got to ride one yet? any more reviews for the new releases?
They won't be hitting US Shores until some time in '08, so it'll be a while before anyone gets to ride one.
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Post by Corsair »

ericalm wrote:
Corsair wrote:has anyone got to ride one yet? any more reviews for the new releases?
They won't be hitting US Shores until some time in '08, so it'll be a while before anyone gets to ride one.
I was asking just in case some insider had the scoop
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Post by Keys »

And here's the deal. I mean the REAL deal. Maxxis is indeed now offering true whitewall tubeless tires. If you need to have whitewalls, these (unless you're riding an older, split-rim scooter) are the ONLY ones to consider if safety is even a remote issue with you.

I've put a bazillion miles on both tube and tubeless tires and have experienced flat tires with both. The controlability (I think I made up a word...let me know, Polianarchy...) difference is ENORMOUS!! Tubeless is the ONLY way to go!!

--Keys 8)
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Post by Kevin K »

Keys wrote:I've put a bazillion miles on both tube and tubeless tires and have experienced flat tires with both. The controlability (I think I made up a word...let me know, Polianarchy...) difference is ENORMOUS!! Tubeless is the ONLY way to go!! --Keys 8)
Agreed.

Time to update my P200 to tubeless rims and get a set of Maxxis whites!
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Post by polianarchy »

Keys wrote:And here's the deal. I mean the REAL deal. Maxxis is indeed now offering true whitewall tubeless tires. If you need to have whitewalls, these (unless you're riding an older, split-rim scooter) are the ONLY ones to consider if safety is even a remote issue with you.

I've put a bazillion miles on both tube and tubeless tires and have experienced flat tires with both. The controlability (I think I made up a word...let me know, Polianarchy...) difference is ENORMOUS!! Tubeless is the ONLY way to go!!

--Keys 8)
First of all, I WANT THOSE TIRES. They make 'em for 06 Buddy 125 wheels, right?

Second, Keys...according to the Oxford English Dictionary, the word controllability means, "The quality or condition of being (easily) controllable." It's first recorded use in print was in 1905 in the Westminster Gazette referring to the vastly superior controllability of the machine-driven vehicle.

:nerd:
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Post by ericalm »

polianarchy wrote:
Keys wrote:And here's the deal. I mean the REAL deal. Maxxis is indeed now offering true whitewall tubeless tires. If you need to have whitewalls, these (unless you're riding an older, split-rim scooter) are the ONLY ones to consider if safety is even a remote issue with you.

I've put a bazillion miles on both tube and tubeless tires and have experienced flat tires with both. The controlability (I think I made up a word...let me know, Polianarchy...) difference is ENORMOUS!! Tubeless is the ONLY way to go!!

--Keys 8)
First of all, I WANT THOSE TIRES. They make 'em for 06 Buddy 125 wheels, right?

Second, Keys...according to the Oxford English Dictionary, the word controllability means, "The quality or condition of being (easily) controllable." It's first recorded use in print was in 1905 in the Westminster Gazette referring to the vastly superior controllability of the machine-driven vehicle.

:nerd:
Ah, I love it when you go all librarian on us.

My favorite Facebook groups (aside from the Buddy and Vespa ones, of course): "Good Grammar is Sexy" and "I Judge You When You Use Poor Grammar"
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Post by Keys »

So it wasn't either a "word" or "usage" issue...it was a "spelling" issue, eh?

...and yep, they come in 3.50 X 10 size for any Buddy 125 model.

--Keys 8)
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Post by scullyfu »

Keys wrote:...and yep, they come in 3.50 X 10 size for any Buddy 125 model.

--Keys 8)
okay, schweet. but i'm a little confused here, will i need to purchase new rims to accomodate the maxxis? as i understand the conversation, my SI whitewalls don't have sealed rims. so how much would new rims (if needed) and the new tubeless whitewalls run me?

thanks.
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Post by Kevin K »

scullyfu wrote:
Keys wrote:...and yep, they come in 3.50 X 10 size for any Buddy 125 model.

--Keys 8)
okay, schweet. but i'm a little confused here, will i need to purchase new rims to accomodate the maxxis? as i understand the conversation, my SI whitewalls don't have sealed rims. so how much would new rims (if needed) and the new tubeless whitewalls run me?

thanks.
You'll be fine. Buddys already have tubeless rims. The reason the SI's used tube-type WW's is because that's what was available at the time.
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