Can this be true?? Vespa PX Automatic 4 stroke

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Alexbv200
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Can this be true?? Vespa PX Automatic 4 stroke

Post by Alexbv200 »

125 Injected AND 200 Injected??

http://modernvespa.com/forum/topic105630
Robbie
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Post by Robbie »

Kind of odd......LML introed a automatic 125 and the 200i today.

So, begs the question....is LML again making machines for Vespa?

Lots of speculation fodder there, eh?

Rob
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Post by BuddyLicious »

Robbie wrote:Kind of odd......LML introed a automatic 125 and the 200i today.

So, begs the question....is LML again making machines for Vespa?

Lots of speculation fodder there, eh?

Rob
Robbie,

Might you have the link to the LML introductions?

Thanks Tim.
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jrsjr
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Post by jrsjr »

BuddyLicious wrote:
Robbie wrote:Kind of odd......LML introed a automatic 125 and the 200i today.

So, begs the question....is LML again making machines for Vespa?

Lots of speculation fodder there, eh?

Rob
Robbie,

Might you have the link to the LML introductions?

Thanks Tim.
Can't find the announcement, per se, but here is a link to a translation of an Italian-language article about it. Hope this helps.

http://translate.google.com/translate?s ... tar-200-4t

EDIT: Woops, my bad, the model described in this article has a carb, not fuel injection. Now I'm confused. :?
Last edited by jrsjr on Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Drum Pro »

Any idea when there will be a relese date for this in the States? I've heard of the PK Automatica but I also heard it wasn't very good...
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Post by Drum Pro »

That link above is to the Stella 200i.
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Post by BuddyLicious »

Does 19 CV for the Vespa 200 4T mean 19 hp like the Modern Vespa members are saying? If so can you clear up my confusion,I mean surely the LML isnt only 11.7 hp while the Vespa is 19 hp??? Is it?

"Inside the LML Star 200 4T find a bigger engine with two-valve cylinder head, 20mm Keihin carburetor and forced air cooling, with a potency of 11.7 hp at 6,250 rpm"

And from the Vespa PX 200ie:

"Vespa PX Evo sarà dotata del variatore automatico, in abbinamento ai motori a 4 tempi 125ie da 14 CV e 200ie da 19 CV"

Thanks Tim
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illnoise
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Post by illnoise »

That story about the automatic P is from May, but it's been popping up all over today.

The 80s Vespa Plurimatic was a 'smallframe' P (the PK line), they were pretty decent in general, but I think the only automatic was a 50. I have a friend who bought one new in the 80s and still has it (actually she sold it then tracked it down years later and bought it back) it's a neat curiosity, there are only a few in the US, but a PK125 manual is a lot faster/more fun. These new ones don't seem to have much to do with the old "Plurimatics," they're based on the standard P frame/engine it appears.

Another thing is that stories like this pop up every year or two, and usually amount to nothing, and they're almost always timed to Bajaj or LML announcements or releases in Europe, either Piaggio 'leaks' that they're working on something so the purists don't go out and buy a different scooter, or the purists just track down some old gossip and get people talking about it again because they don't want to admit Piaggio is blowing yet another opportunity in the marketplace.

I'm looking into it more. I have access to the international Piaggio press site and there's nothing there, going back to 2011. I don't think the LML and Vespa stories are related, production-wise, if both are even true, if there's any relationship, it's just the timing of the marketing.
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Post by Drum Pro »

hasn't LML released the manual 200 in Europe? Why do I always feel the U.S. is playing "Lagwagon" on these scoots! I.E.: lagging behind not the band "Lag Wagon"...
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Post by Rusty J »

Drum Pro wrote:hasn't LML released the manual 200 in Europe? Why do I always feel the U.S. is playing "Lagwagon" on these scoots! I.E.: lagging behind not the band "Lag Wagon"...
Given the hassles Genuine went through to get the 150cc 4T here, I wouldn't expect them to be in a hurry to bring in the 200cc version. I cannot imagine them doing so this year, as the first (post-Customs/EPA nimrod fiasco) ones are still under warranty for another month or two...
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Post by Robbie »

Drum Pro wrote:hasn't LML released the manual 200 in Europe? Why do I always feel the U.S. is playing "Lagwagon" on these scoots! I.E.: lagging behind not the band "Lag Wagon"...

My thoughts...........

It is not uncommon for a foreign manufacturer to market a product first in their primary markets.
Primary markets being those where the sales numbers are far higher than here in the U.S.A.
This is a method of ironing out design and assembly oversights in a hurry because of the large number of products and rapid accumulation of miles or kilometers that markets who use these as primary transportation can rack up in short order.

I know that constructing a 125cc and a 150cc of one crankcase design and a 200cc of another case design, while continueing to manufacture both the 125cc and 150cc of the 2t for third world consumption must be rather expensive.....especially in view of 2t and 4t versions having specific chassis.

All that aside, my thoughts are based on my career in the auto industry.

I believe the 200i is not that far off. This because of the Euro III emission standards and the need to amitorize the design and component expense.
The 200i is Euro III compliant and U.S. emission standards are getting close to tightening up.....mirroring Euro III.

I contend the current 125 and 150 4t series engine will be short lived and will become a 125/200 4t series based on the new crankcase design.

For the short term, the new design will be carburated OR F.I. as a option, ultimatly becoming strictly F.I. on the 200cc version.

I really can't speculate on the belt drive autos we speculate about from time to time.......LML would be trying to enter a market that has no shortage of products and their only claim to fame would be the 'Retro' look.

My musings for today,

Rob
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Post by ericalm »

Drum Pro wrote:hasn't LML released the manual 200 in Europe? Why do I always feel the U.S. is playing "Lagwagon" on these scoots! I.E.: lagging behind not the band "Lag Wagon"...
The US scooter market is TINY compared to the rest of the world. Almost insignificant. North America accounts for under 2% of Piaggio Group (Vespa, Aprilia, Moto Guzzi, Piaggio—scooters and motorcycles) sales volume and revenue.
Rusty J wrote:Given the hassles Genuine went through to get the 150cc 4T here, I wouldn't expect them to be in a hurry to bring in the 200cc version. I cannot imagine them doing so this year, as the first (post-Customs/EPA nimrod fiasco) ones are still under warranty for another month or two...
New scooter model availability is less affected by the Stella 4T issues than the fact that the US scooter market still stinks and that demand for the 150 4Ts is still relatively small. Demand for one that cost several hundred dollars more but is still too slow for freeway riding will likely be smaller. The economy just isn't favoring these types of scooters, which don't have the same broad appeal as the Buddy, which is cheaper and offers a better price-to-performance deal for most new scooter buyers.
Eric // LA Scooter Meetup Group // Stella 4T // Vespa LX // Vespa LXS // Honda Helix // some, uh, projects…
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Post by illnoise »

What Eric said, the biggest thing is just how small our market is.

Any yeah, homologation has a lot to do with it. All these bikes are engineered for the biggest markets, Europe and Asia. Europe's emission laws (and licensing laws, too, actually) are actually more restrictive than the US, but they're different. And regulations about lighting and other highway safety items are different too. So it's very expensive for an importer AND the manufacturer to homologate their bikes for the U.S.

If, as eric pointed out, the US market was anything but a tiny fraction of the European and Asian market, it'd be worth the expense and risk, but it's just not worth building thousands of bikes for the U.S. then paying for shipping, warehousing, distribution, and parts warehousing unless they KNOW they'll sell.

Aside from the practicality and cultural popularity of scooters elsewhere, the fact that there's not much distinction between scooters and motorcycles as far as licensing in the US makes a big difference, too. Owning (and legally riding) a bigger motorcycle in Europe is expensive and requires multiple levels of tiered license tests in most countries, whereas here you can take one test and be riding a hayabusa the next day.
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