170i wouldnt start this morning

danrock · Post by **danrock** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:13 pm

i live in pittsburgh and havent been on the scooter in a week or two due to weather and being busy. i put it away with very little gas and when i tried to start it up this morning it wouldnt turn over. just the battery? should i jump it? can i do that with my car? obviously since its fuel injected i dont have a kickstarter.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:29 pm

"Turn Over" is a blinking word. Please to clarify: will the starter crank but the engine not fire, or will the starter not crank at all?

If the latter, then yeah, you can try to jump it. It's probably a little safer on the electrical system to do so with the car's engine NOT running, to prevent any big over-voltages from the car. A car's battery will have loads of reserve amps to crank a scoot engine.

If the former, or if the jump-starting doesn't work, add some gas if you're on the Empty peg and try again.

Oh, and in the other 170i thread, the kill switch was mentioned. Unlike some bikes where the kill switch cuts EVERYTHING off (including the starter), PGO/Genuine's implementation seems to just cut spark and stop the engine. I'm not 100% certain, but the starter may actually crank with the kill switch on "Kill" but spark is inhibited, meaning no-starty. It may also vary from model to model. Anyway, work the kill switch a couple of times and make sure it's in the Run position.

Your headlight won't come on until the engine is running, as it's powered by the alternator rather than by the battery. Don't panic about that.

Let us know what happens.

danrock · Post by **danrock** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:33 pm

cranking but not firing. tried it quiet a few times and it seems to get weaker so im assuming battery... tried the switch a couple times, does opening the throttle while trying to start help anything?

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:36 pm

Probably not on the 170. Add some fuel, and if that fails, call Roadside. I don't have any debugging experience with the FI system.

Assuming you're the first owner (meaning you're under warranty), if you haven't got your roadside credentials in the mail yet, the number is 1-866-311-8982, and the member number is your 17-digit VIN number.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:40 pm

Also, check the manual to see the locations of any of the electrical fuses. I don't know if there's a fuse between the charging system and the FI rig, but maybe if there's a blown fuse, the engine could crank but the fuel isn't being delivered.

Check the spark plug wire, too - sometimes they have an annoying habit of coming loose. You'll need to remove the three screws on the cowl in the footwell covering the engine (under the rubber mat) and one up in the center. Gently remove that panel, and the spark plug is right there. Pull the connector off the plug and re-attach, and see if it makes any difference.

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:44 pm

I still bet battery. I've let mine sit in warm weather for a couple of weeks for vacation, and it gave me arguments about starting up, so I kickstarted it. My kymco doesn't have a kickstarter, so I took out the battery for a few hours of extra charge, and it started right up.

Cheshire · Post by **Cheshire** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:52 pm

danrock wrote:cranking but not firing. tried it quiet a few times and it seems to get weaker so im assuming battery... tried the switch a couple times, does opening the throttle while trying to start help anything?

Classic symptom of the battery not having enough charge to crank the engine. I'd get a battery tender.

danrock · Post by **danrock** » Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:26 pm

So I just remembered I have one of these http://www.blackanddecker.com/power-too ... 86BBD.aspx any harm with using that on the battery?

jonlink · Post by **jonlink** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:08 am

danrock wrote:So I just remembered I have one of these http://www.blackanddecker.com/power-too ... 86BBD.aspx any harm with using that on the battery?

I would use that. I've jumped off of a car before. I don't think it is ideal, but it is better than nothing.

I recently had the same problem with my 170i. I took the battery out and left it on the battery tender for the night. It's been fine since. The cold weather and my short commute don't seem to be doing the battery any favors. My plan is to hook it up the battery tender once a month.

danrock · Post by **danrock** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:51 am

It has options for 2, 4, and 6 amps. Which would be the proper setting? And at full charge it should be 12 volts right?

Robbie · Post by **Robbie** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:06 am

danrock wrote:It has options for 2, 4, and 6 amps. Which would be the proper setting? And at full charge it should be 12 volts right?

Use the lowest 2 amp setting......even this is a bit of a heavy hit so don't charge longer than about 3 hours or stop sooner if the battery case becomes hot to the touch.
Hot means, about 100 degrees, slightly warmer than body temperature, not burns your palm hot.....that will destroy the battery by warping the plates.

I have used a two amp charger on small batteries by plugging it into a standard light timer and setting it for two hours a day.....battery thinks it went for a ride every day, heh, heh.

The 170i requires a fully charged battery because in addition to cranking the engine and providing spark, it must also power the electric fuel pump and the engine computer.
If the battary state of charge is low, it can crank the engine but odds are the fuel pressure is too low to get a good injector pulse.

As stated earlier, you can jump it off your NOT RUNNING auto......you want to avoid the running cars alternator trying to shove 100+ amps into that little battery and electrical system.

Mechanics saying ' It's impossible to get the smoke back in the box' ie, the engine control computer has experienced a meltdown.

Good luck,
Rob

Cheshire · Post by **Cheshire** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:21 am

Another tip if you find your battery is having trouble holding a charge: take the long way home or just go wandering once in a while...seriously.
If your trips are regularly less than about 10 miles, you're not spending enough time at sufficient rpms to put charge back into your battery. The electrical systems of scooters and motorcycles alike don't produce more power than they consume at idle: it needs to be above a certain rpm range for that to happen. (It varies from model to model.)
If most of your trips are less than 10 miles one-way...go for a fun ride. Explore alternate routes to get where you usually go. Take an hour and just go play.

jonlink · Post by **jonlink** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:24 am

Cheshire wrote:If most of your trips are less than 10 miles one-way...go for a fun ride. Explore alternate routes to get where you usually go. Take an hour and just go play.

Spoken like someone who lives in a place that has comfortable temperatures year round

danrock · Post by **danrock** » Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:08 pm

so the scooter started right up yesterday when i got home from work (no time to go ride it unfortunately) but wouldnt start again this morning. i just bought one of those light timers and im planning to set it up so the battery starts charging about 2 hours before i get up for work in the morning. im hoping that will get it ready for me when im ready to leave, and hopefully i wont be stranded with a dead battery when i am ready to leave work for the day.

Cheshire · Post by **Cheshire** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:50 pm

jonlink wrote:
Cheshire wrote:If most of your trips are less than 10 miles one-way...go for a fun ride. Explore alternate routes to get where you usually go. Take an hour and just go play.
Spoken like someone who lives in a place that has comfortable temperatures year round

Only if you consider freezing and sub-freezing winter temps "comfortable."

I was saying that because I've talked to several people locally who have been having battery issues that have been cured with a tender. After a few minutes of talking, I usually find out they ride pretty regularly, put it on a tender when they know it's going to sit for more than a week or so, but can't figure out why it's still running the battery down. The simple fix (that doesn't involve plugging into the tender every weekend during riding season) is go on longer rides.

I added that comment more for the benefit of future searches from people who might have a similar problem. Just a FYI type thing.

Cheshire · Post by **Cheshire** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:55 pm

danrock wrote:so the scooter started right up yesterday when i got home from work (no time to go ride it unfortunately) but wouldnt start again this morning. i just bought one of those light timers and im planning to set it up so the battery starts charging about 2 hours before i get up for work in the morning. im hoping that will get it ready for me when im ready to leave, and hopefully i wont be stranded with a dead battery when i am ready to leave work for the day.

If you can afford it, a battery tender is really a good investment. Here they're only $30-40 and you can leave the battery on it for a good long while. If the battery's low, it'll charge it: after that it just maintains the charge. No harm in leaving it hooked up for a few days. (Just follow basic universal electrical/fire safety, of course.)

If you're still having battery woes after putting a charge in it, might be worth giving your dealer's service dept. a call. I'm assuming it's still under warranty?

SYMbionic Duo · Post by **SYMbionic Duo** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:51 pm

Could also be the FI system.

My downtown wouldn't start the other day, so i drove a different bike to work. When i got home and pulled the battery, i found that it was still fully charged.

I think that the FI systems get confused when the weather is below freezing.

Had the same problem on my Citycom, couldn't get it started below 15°

Sometimes a carb is better. ........sometimes.

-duo