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Scooter Cannonball Run 2014 Rules!

 
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BuddyRaton
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:22 am    Post subject: Scooter Cannonball Run 2014 Rules! Reply with quote

It's never too early to start planning!!

The rules and handicap system for 2014 have been established and posted!
http://www.scootercannonball.com/


For 2014 the engine size limit is 250cc


2 Vehicle Requirements
• 2.1 Participation is limited to scooters with an engine displacement not more than 250cc.
• 2.1.1 A scooter is a two or three wheeled vehicle that satisfies AT LEAST THREE OF FIVE of the following
conditions:
• 2.1.1.1 unit construction of engine, transmission and rear swingarm.
• 2.1.1.2 wheels no larger than 10in.
• 2.1.1.3 originally equipped with a step-through style frame.
• 2.1.1.4 originally equipped with running boards or leg shield.
• 2.1.1.5 a single cylinder engine design.


Engine swaps are still permitted, but there are some new restrictions!
• 2.3.3 Engine replacements are limited to those with cases used in a production motor scooter meeting the
definitions in section 2.1.



The handicap system has also been adjusted



CBR 2014 Handicap


For the Scooter Cannonball Run in 2014 we are adjusting the handicap, and we think we got it right this time. The handicap is based on both the age and displacement of your scooter and is normalized to a 1979 Vespa P200E. The handicap takes into account the power/cc of every vespa made since 1946. That said some models performed better than average and others worse. Check the rules for the formula and the forum for the method and rational behind it if you have questions. Or just use the form below to calculate your handicap.

As long as the engine cases are standard to your scooter the year of manufacture is based on that shown on your registration. If an engine swap has been done then it's based on the average year of the frame and engine. There seems to be a sweet spot for displacement somewhere between 125-200cc and very little (or negative) advantage to larger bikes.



Yeah the handicap system is confusing...visit the site and there is a simple calculator to figure it out.


What does all this mean? To me it could be a CBR where Genuine Scooters shine! Look at it this way..a 2012 Buddy 125 works out to a 100% handicap! That means it's running even with a 79 Vespa P200!

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neotrotsky
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like they learned from the last engine swap frankenbike debacle.

If by some miracle I get a full time position at my job by 2014 (and who knows what will happen by then...) And if I can get a Stella running as a clean daily rider, I may refresh this Agility and take it on the toughest race under 250cc's

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Counter-protest: http://scootergumballrally.com
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BuddyRaton
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Pete thanks!

Perhaps it would be a bit more polite to lodge protests and promote a different run in a seperate thread.

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TVB
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Scooter Cannonball Run 2014 Rules! Reply with quote

BuddyRaton wrote:
What does all this mean? To me it could be a CBR where Genuine Scooters shine! Look at it this way..a 2012 Buddy 125 works out to a 100% handicap! That means it's running even with a 79 Vespa P200!

My Buddy 50 works out to a 73% handicap. Which I'm sure would help me out with the scoring, but still not make it any easier to actually run the course. Smile

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z20k
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PeteH wrote:
Counter-protest: http://scootergumballrally.com


Quote:
• Wheels no larger than 12 inches.


Guess my HD200 is out. Rolling Eyes

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BuddyRaton
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

z20k wrote:
Guess my HD200 is out. Rolling Eyes



No...the HD200 meets the requirements for the CBR

It has a unit construction of engine, transmission and rear swingarm
originally equipped with a step-through style frame.
originally equipped with running boards or leg shield.
a single cylinder engine design

It meets four of the five criteria whereas it only needs to meet three to qualify

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z20k
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah I thought it had to meet -all- of them. Derp. Razz
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BuddyRaton
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Scooter Cannonball Run 2014 Rules! Reply with quote

TVB wrote:
BuddyRaton wrote:
What does all this mean? To me it could be a CBR where Genuine Scooters shine! Look at it this way..a 2012 Buddy 125 works out to a 100% handicap! That means it's running even with a 79 Vespa P200!

My Buddy 50 works out to a 73% handicap. Which I'm sure would help me out with the scoring, but still not make it any easier to actually run the course. Smile


A 50cc C3 actually did pretty well last time and a 73% HC is sweet!

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BuddyRaton
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

neotrotsky wrote:
Looks like they learned from the last engine swap frankenbike debacle.



Yeah...I think that caught them a bit off guard. I thought the 2012 HC system was pretty fair for a first attempt.

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TVB
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Scooter Cannonball Run 2014 Rules! Reply with quote

BuddyRaton wrote:
A 50cc C3 actually did pretty well last time and a 73% HC is sweet!

Sure, it's physically possible (unlike the Iron Butt, which would require violating one or two laws of physics to do on a stock 50cc).
But there's something about spending 10-11 hours a day in the saddle for over a week that... doesn't appeal to me. Neutral

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jrsjr
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Scooter Cannonball Run 2014 Rules! Reply with quote

BuddyRaton wrote:
...But there's something about spending 10-11 hours a day in the saddle for over a week that... doesn't appeal to me. Neutral

You mean the idea of spending 12-13 hours a day in the saddle with a sanitary napkin taped over a half-dollar-sized raw sore on your butt doesn't sound like your idea of fun? What's up with that? Twisted Evil


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^I'm not sure, but I think that falls into the TMI category. Bleh
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If someone wants to ride along with you on, lets say a 400 burgman. Will they be allowed to come along?. As in a "support class" for the folks who might want to bring a bigger scoot?

My Stella is at 111%...Boooo. Stella's should get a better year handicap , like a -10 year bonus. Yes, they don't have points like a vintage bike, but they sure aren't a buddy 125 either Smile.

Really trying to get a crew together for this. Been building 3 Stellas to do it with.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

viney266 wrote:
If someone wants to ride along with you on, lets say a 400 burgman. Will they be allowed to come along?. As in a "support class" for the folks who might want to bring a bigger scoot?

Patrick was kind enough to let me try that in 2008. On the first day's ride, I was actually some help (I dove headfirst into a huge trashcan to retrieve one of the rider's keys when they went missing after lunch). The second day, not so much. The third day, tire failure. I was a dead-weight after that for days on end. I was hating life. Sad
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illnoise
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BuddyRaton wrote:
z20k wrote:
Guess my HD200 is out. :roll:


No...the HD200 meets the requirements for the CBR


The 12" wheel quote was from the Gumball site, but it's also a one-out-of-four thing, and that's just for some of the classes…

So I'm already confused, and I'm already certain that someone will find a way to weasel around the rules of both events (and two events just dilutes the already-pretty-small pool for each), with an 'unfair' advantage. This same sort of stuff killed a lot of the racing leagues in the late 90s/early 2000s, it was fun for one season and then it just turned into six thousand rules and ten classes for a race of 12 bikes, so almost everyone was in a category by themselves.

I personally think it's cooler to do it on a dodgy old stock bike, or an underpowered modern bike, but I don't have anything against anyone that'd want to do it on any sort of weird bike. But the rules need to be simple, if they want to keep it vintage only, or under a certain displacement, that makes sense, but writing pages of rules and formulas to keep certain people/bikes out never works. It's like the tax code, the more complicated it is, the more loopholes you open, the easier it is to hide cheating, and often the people you're trying to help get hurt and vice versa.

Seems to me like it'd be more fun to do something like this for yourself, with a group of friends to see if you could do it. If it's not a race, as they both like to say a lot, why does there even have to be a winner? If everyone's so competitive about it, everyone should stop pretending it's so informal and laid back.

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neotrotsky
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It just seems so strange someone would put so much effort into what is essentially such an obscure race that only a few thousand really care about, if it's even that many.

I just remember reading pages and pages of the drama from the last CBR that the chaos put me off until I realized "Hey, my family and friends really don't give a damn about the challenge of riding a scooter cross country" and when it comes down to it, it's for yourself. I get countless people insisting that my summer trip to Amerivespa via Mexico is "insane" and has "zero purpose" and I should just fly there or take a "real bike". But, I'm not doing this to prove something to anyone. I'll take whatever scooter I have that I think will make it too (or which ever one is running... same diff). To them it's the same as running in some nameless 10K or backpacking through a bunch of countries with -stan at the end of their names.

But, to me it matters, and that's about it.

To spend that much energy to get around rules that are essentially there to only cater to the very small handful that it seems to matter to is a waste of time and money if you ask me. And to gloat about "out-smarting" the organizers is akin to to bragging about fragging a bunch of 13 year olds in a round of Modern Warfare on the XBOX to your co workers: It doesn't matter and only makes you look like a douche.

I just want to say I survived a cross country endurance race on a bike that most people don't even think is worthy to hold a parking space to their beloved Harleys.

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BuddyRaton
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope this doesn't degrade into another bitch thread about the CBR rules as some have attempted to make it, and as has occured on our sister site MV.

It's the Cannonball...it is what it is. These are the rules for 2014...they are what they are. If you get it...you get it...if you don't get it...that's fine...but no reason to piss on others parade.

Personally I was planning on running a modified P200 motor in a 64 GL, however now I am considering running an 08 Buddy 125.

I take it seriously..but well...when you come down to it it's grown men and women doing something pretty stupid with scooters.

This is gonna be fun!

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cdwise
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

viney266 wrote:
If someone wants to ride along with you on, lets say a 400 burgman. Will they be allowed to come along?. As in a "support class" for the folks who might want to bring a bigger scoot?

My Stella is at 111%...Boooo. Stella's should get a better year handicap , like a -10 year bonus. Yes, they don't have points like a vintage bike, but they sure aren't a buddy 125 either Smile.

Really trying to get a crew together for this. Been building 3 Stellas to do it with.

Apparently not unless they actually are providing support as in carrying parts and wrenching.

Somehow I don't see myself riding the Buddy 125 cross country. My son has been riding it to school for 3.5 years. I could do it on the GTS (with a different seat than the Corbin).
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BuddyRaton
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The route is on public roads so anybody can ride along, just not as an official rider. If you want to ride as support I would suggest contacting the organizers.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BuddyRaton wrote:
Personally I was planning on running a modified P200 motor in a 64 GL, however now I am considering running an 08 Buddy 125.


Isn't a VSE1M a bit newfangled for you, man? Wink

I'd like to run a Cannonball, but it would be contingent on how much time I had to prep a bike, I figure that using the Yager would be too easy. The P might be fun, but I'd do a few minor things to it to increase reliability (like it isn't already...). The list of scoots from my stable that I would want to run would be:

1. '64 Vespa 90 (V9A1)
2. '65 Allstate Compact (DS60)
3. '84 Yamaha Beluga (CV80)
4. '85 Honda Elite (CH80)

Yes, all are small and stupidly slow (top speeds around 40-ish). However, I figure if I survived it, I'd probably want to come back again with a bigger scoot. Smile

Why a slow machine? One of the best cross-country trips I ever took was with my '82 Diesel Vanagon. You just can't go fast in one of those, so you lose the stress of competition and just enjoy the ride.

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BuddyRaton
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

az_slynch wrote:
BuddyRaton wrote:
Personally I was planning on running a modified P200 motor in a 64 GL, however now I am considering running an 08 Buddy 125.


Isn't a VSE1M a bit newfangled for you, man? Wink



Yeah you have point...but it's a 79..the best year for P2 lumps...but you dont think I would be leaving it anywhere near stock do ya! HR Al has already done some major surgery and I'm hoping to get 25-27 hp out of it after I finish building it and get it dialed in

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BuddyRaton
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

az_slynch wrote:
BuddyRaton wrote:
Personally I was planning on running a modified P200 motor in a 64 GL, however now I am considering running an 08 Buddy 125.


Isn't a VSE1M a bit newfangled for you, man? Wink

I'd like to run a Cannonball, but it would be contingent on how much time I had to prep a bike, I figure that using the Yager would be too easy. The P might be fun, but I'd do a few minor things to it to increase reliability (like it isn't already...). The list of scoots from my stable that I would want to run would be:

1. '64 Vespa 90 (V9A1)
2. '65 Allstate Compact (DS60)
3. '84 Yamaha Beluga (CV80)
4. '85 Honda Elite (CH80)

Yes, all are small and stupidly slow (top speeds around 40-ish). However, I figure if I survived it, I'd probably want to come back again with a bigger scoot. Smile

Why a slow machine? One of the best cross-country trips I ever took was with my '82 Diesel Vanagon. You just can't go fast in one of those, so you lose the stress of competition and just enjoy the ride.



Out of those I think I would be going for the 85 Elite.

The 64 90 is just too rare a scooter to subject to the CBR
The Allstate...well...I love them...but it's an Allstate Very Happy
Yamaha might be good
With the Honda, parts are pretty much still available almost anywhere

But really....you should take th P!

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BuddyRaton wrote:
Out of those I think I would be going for the 85 Elite.

The 64 90 is just too rare a scooter to subject to the CBR
The Allstate...well...I love them...but it's an Allstate Very Happy
Yamaha might be good
With the Honda, parts are pretty much still available almost anywhere

But really....you should take th P!


Funny bit is, I have three '85 Elites, so I hypothetically have two spare and rules-friendly motor swaps.

As for 2Ts, if I was gonna run one, I would seriously consider ceramic coating the head and piston crown to help avoid holed pistons.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Scooter Cannonball Run 2014 Rules! Reply with quote

TVB wrote:
BuddyRaton wrote:
A 50cc C3 actually did pretty well last time and a 73% HC is sweet!

Sure, it's physically possible (unlike the Iron Butt, which would require violating one or two laws of physics to do on a stock 50cc).
But there's something about spending 10-11 hours a day in the saddle for over a week that... doesn't appeal to me. Neutral


After 18hrs in the saddle, followed by 15 the next day, or 1750 mi with 3hrs sleep, 400mi days sounds like a cake walk. and a lot of fun to me.

-duo

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