Price check

Coolda · Post by **Coolda** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:53 pm

Hello scooter enthusiasts,

I am thinking about purchasing a 2006 buddy 50cc with a little under 10k mileage. How much do you think is a reasonable price to pay for the vehicle? Also it does not come with title or registration, he said he could provide a bill of sale. Do you think this is legitimate? It is in Virginia. I would be riding around in DC.

Thanks all,
First time scooter buyer.

z20k · Post by **z20k** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:56 pm

Do not buy it. No title, NO DEAL.

You will go through a LOT of pain to get that properly titled, registered and insured.

ravenlore · Post by **ravenlore** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:40 am

z20k wrote:Do not buy it. No title, NO DEAL.

You will go through a LOT of pain to get that properly titled, registered and insured.

What he said. Walk away. No title is a big red flag.

gr8dog · Post by **gr8dog** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:54 am

z20k wrote:Do not buy it. No title, NO DEAL.

You will go through a LOT of pain to get that properly titled, registered and insured.

Perfect advice. Avoid the trouble!!

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:06 am

Good advice, but... check to see what kind of documentation DC law (if that's the jurisdiction you live in) requires for a 50cc scooter. Not all states (and state-like political entities) have the same documentation requirements.

For what it's worth, the Kelly Blue Book buying-from-a-dealer value of a 2006 Buddy 50 in "excellent" condition for your area is $1,375. To be honest, that seems a bit high to me, especially if buying from an individual who isn't like to "stand by it" if something goes wrong early on. It probably has plenty of miles left on it (mine's over 18K), but it's also a nearly-7-year-old bike. The amount they say one should expect for trading it in to a dealer is $875, and I've always figured that when buying a used vehicle from a previous owner, the fair price is between those two that Kelly gives.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:17 am

The Kelley Bluebook high retail value for an '06 50cc Buddy in excellent condition is $1375. I would be thinking down a bit from that WITH a title or corresponding Virginia documentation.

Coolda · Post by **Coolda** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:21 am

Thanks for the quick responses! I know that Virginia doesn't require title or registration but dc does. Would I be able to just say it was from VA? Also think 750 is a good price?

redhandmoto · Post by **redhandmoto** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:58 am

Coolda wrote: Would I be able to just say it was from VA?

That's a non-starter; DC officials will not listen to your plea for 2 seconds.

Yes, you do sometimes see tagless 50cc scoots on the street in DC...

- if the owners are DC residents, they're living on borrowed time; DC-owned 50cc machines require registration and all that goes with it, just like motorcycles;

- if they're "visiting" DC from the state of Virginia, they may still expect a looooonnnggg traffic stop by ignorant and downright hostile patrol units. Even carrying a laminated copy of the DC MV code with you that proves that your VA-owned 50cc need not be tagged to be operated in DC may not spare you a hassle while a patrol cop consults with his sergeant, shift lieutenant, and watch commander.

A Genuine scooter offered to me for $750 would scream "stolen"...even if it was my Grandma pitching it, and she offered me a bill of sale.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:36 am

Coolda wrote:Thanks for the quick responses! I know that Virginia doesn't require title or registration but dc does. Would I be able to just say it was from VA?

Well, I don't imagine your say so will do the job. On the other hand, just find out what documentation DMV in the District requires to issue a title. Most states require a manufacturers statement of origin (MSO), which comes with a new bike, in order to title a bike that has never been previously titled. Find out what you would need and be sure you have it before you consider buying the bike.

spr0k3t · Post by **spr0k3t** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:38 am

Get the frame VIN as well as the engine VIN. Check with the DMV and the local scooter villas to see if they are stolen. Get the information on where the scoot was purchased from and see if you can get records from them. If you want to tango and do the deal... low ball the guy and explain there's no title. Tell them you will offer more if they have a title.

Drum Pro · Post by **Drum Pro** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:49 am

Don't buy it. It screams stolen to me since the seller has no title. Save yourself the hassle and look harder for clean titled scoot....

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:14 am

If there's one thing I found, is that when dealing with the DMV there is no such thing as an "effective" loop hole. If it *should* come with a title, yet does not, run away from the deal. In the end, you'll be trying to find every bit of black magic to convince the state to tag the bike and you'll more often than not end up suffering, and the scammer got your cash and got rid of that bike... by dumping it on you.

There are PLENTY of great deals that are lying around out there. Sometimes it's just better to sit and wait for the right one to come up by keeping your eyes peeled and being ready to move on the perfect deal. Patience is key.

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:50 pm

in Colorado, pre 2010 you didn't have a title for 50cc bikes. I would look into your local laws. Both of my '09 50cc bikes were just show up and register the VIN (actually you did it by mail) and if the VIN wasn't stolen, you got a sticker for 3 years.

Coolda · Post by **Coolda** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:57 pm

Okay I contacted the seller and got the VIN (not the engine one). I checked with the local police to see if VIN is legit and it checked out; it didn't come back as stolen. I emailed Genuine to see if they will be able to provide me a certificate of origin. Once, I get a response I'll head over and purchase it. I'll have enough documentation to get it titled in Maryland. Now what should I check for to see if the scooter is in good condition?

Thanks again!

redhandmoto · Post by **redhandmoto** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:10 pm

Coolda wrote:Okay I contacted the seller and got the VIN (not the engine one). I checked with the local police to see if VIN is legit and it checked out; it didn't come back as stolen. I emailed Genuine to see if they will be able to provide me a certificate of origin. Once, I get a response I'll head over and purchase it. I'll have enough documentation to get it titled in Maryland. Now what should I check for to see if the scooter is in good condition?

Thanks again!

Gee, Man! Glad this is working out for you - nice to see a happy ending for once!

Just a thought - if ya wanna get it thoroughly checked oiut and buffed, try the guys at modernclassicsdc.com ; they're in DC, and are truly ace wrenchers.

Best of luck

Coolda · Post by **Coolda** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:09 pm

That's the thing, what should I look out for when purchasing an used scooter? After I purchase it I'll definitely take it to them to have it thoroughly checked out.

redhandmoto · Post by **redhandmoto** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:33 pm

Looking for the true 2T Gurus to check in here, but..

tire condition, brake function, excess smoking, smooth and even idling, all electrics operational?, acceleration/deceleration smooth (engine not stalling or running rough in decel), spark strength, compression check (if you can); oil injection and fuel lines/fuel filter not leaking?, variator belt thickness & condition, rollers without flat spots? if you have a meter, battery strength & charging. Ride it around through a full range of throttling: how's it seem? Smoothish? Top speed? Did the seller mention anything about it having been derestricted (removal of factory variator restriction washer)?

Any chance of the seller permitting a pre-sale contingency check-out by a qualified scoot mechanic (on your dime)?

None of the above are fatal; the nice thing about a simple little 2T engine is that even rebuild of the top-end is not really gonna break the bank.

Coolda · Post by **Coolda** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:15 pm

The thing is the location of his shop is no where near any place that seems to repair scooters, at least according to Yelp. I'm hoping it runs smoothly though it has been around 10k mileage and is a 2006.

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:25 pm

depending on maintenance it could need a lot of misc stuff, like rollers/belt/blah blah, but that's not so bad!

Coolda · Post by **Coolda** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:50 pm

Okay so my checklist should be:

1.) Tire Conditions
2.) Brake Function
3.) Idling engine sound
4.) Electronics/Lights all work
5.) Leaking from oil/fuel/brake lines
6.) Belt conditions
7.) Top Speed/Acceleration
8.) Riding it full range and up/down hills
9.) Lots of smoke

Now I'm not how to check:

1.) Spark Strength
2.) Compression Check
3.) Rollers without flat spots

Thanks for the help guys, I just don't want to buy a brick.

Also, is a Buddy 50 CC a good first time scooter?

redhandmoto · Post by **redhandmoto** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:30 pm

it'll normally smoke a bit - it's a two-stroke; oil is mixed with the gasoline.

That speaks also to things like the condition of the rings. a compression check will help show their state; if the reading is low, power produced will have fallen off.

But that's not necessarily a deal breaker: rings are expected to wear over time on a 2T and replacing the rings is fairly quick and easy (once you know what you're doing) - don't know what your budget is like, but if it's only 750 to buy in, repair/replacement of this-and-that by a mechanic may well be worth it.

What kind of maintenance has the seller done, if any? 2-strokes can get a little clogged up with carbon build up in use, but that's also to be expected.

All this stuff is, as they say in Real Estate, part of the charm: little 2 stroke engines are fun & fairly easy to work on - a good way to get into wrenching. There are crap-loads of tutorials and how-tos all over the 'Net. take a look at the "MB FAQS & Guides" section here. For some great write-ups and how-tos, check out 49ccscoot.com , both the forum and tech library - a very friendly crowd who are always willing to help out a noob.

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:31 pm

Coolda wrote:Okay so my checklist should be:

1.) Tire Conditions
2.) Brake Function
3.) Idling engine sound
4.) Electronics/Lights all work
5.) Leaking from oil/fuel/brake lines
6.) Belt conditions
7.) Top Speed/Acceleration
8.) Riding it full range and up/down hills
9.) Lots of smoke

Now I'm not how to check:

1.) Spark Strength
2.) Compression Check
3.) Rollers without flat spots

Thanks for the help guys, I just don't want to buy a brick.

Also, is a Buddy 50 CC a good first time scooter?

A 50cc has it's pluses and minuses, but you really can't go wrong if you are willing to start out with a low speed commuter (@ or under 40-ish mph). Of course, buying Genuine (usually) is a great bet and a smart way to go. A few other things to keep in mind with 2-strokes:

-Check plug color. The electrode of the plug should be a mocha color (think a decent, slightly darker frappuchino If you're the Starbucks type). If it's VERY pale or VERY dark, it's running lean or rich. Could be an indicator that it may need a bit of tweaking. Not a deal breaker, but an indicator on how the engine is running, and you never know how long it's been running that way. Too lean and it's starved for oil. Too rich and it's got too much, which can also affect performance and cause damage long term.

-With auto-chokes, when you start it cold you should see a bit of smoke from the tailpipe when revving, but once warm the 2-stroke smoke should be slight and consistent. If you can drive bees out with the exhaust, it could need a new set of rings to say the least, or ig could be running too rich.

If you can get a MCO for it, that solves the no title problem to be sure.

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:43 am

Coolda wrote:Also, is a Buddy 50 CC a good first time scooter?

Yes.

At least it has been for me. Super-easy to ride (I'm assuming you at least have bicycle experience... and a safety class like the MSF course would be helpful even if not required for licensing), enough acceleration for most city riding (I'm assuming it's been de-restricted, so a top speed of about 40mph), and requiring incredibly little TLC. I've brought mine in once a year for service, putting almost 5K/year on it, and the only things I've had to replace are the things that are supposed to wear out (tires, brakes, sparks, filters), or things that broke when the bike fell off its stand.

Some people prefer a scooter with more power... that's a personal preference. I've had a 50cc for almost 4 years and I've been perfectly happy with it, even riding it all over Michigan. There's been exactly one place I wanted to take it but wasn't allowed to because of the engine size (across the Mackinac Bridge)... and I did it anyway.

There are other good first-time scoots out there too, of course. But this is definitely in the top tier for it. A used Buddy 50 at the price you quoted is so much better than a new no-name P.R.China import for about the same amount.

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:58 am

TVB wrote:
Coolda wrote:Also, is a Buddy 50 CC a good first time scooter?
Yes.

At least it has been for me. Super-easy to ride (I'm assuming you at least have bicycle experience... and a safety class like the MSF course would be helpful even if not required for licensing), enough acceleration for most city riding (I'm assuming it's been de-restricted, so a top speed of about 40mph), and requiring incredibly little TLC. I've brought mine in once a year for service, putting almost 5K/year on it, and the only things I've had to replace are the things that are supposed to wear out (tires, brakes, sparks, filters), or things that broke when the bike fell off its stand.

Some people prefer a scooter with more power... that's a personal preference. I've had a 50cc for almost 4 years and I've been perfectly happy with it, even riding it all over Michigan. There's been exactly one place I wanted to take it but wasn't allowed to because of the engine size (across the Mackinac Bridge)... and I did it anyway.

There are other good first-time scoots out there too, of course. But this is definitely in the top tier for it. A used Buddy 50 at the price you quoted is so much better than a new no-name P.R.China import for about the same amount.

Depending on his location, the 50cc may not even be safe enough. I know in Phoenix, unless you're in the downtown core, a 50 will get you killed. If you are in NYC, much of Boston or a few of the other New England states you're good to go with 50.

redhandmoto · Post by **redhandmoto** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:37 am

^^

oh, DC streets are benign enough for a well-appointed 50. Lights at most corners, congestion moderates speeds.

Coolda · Post by **Coolda** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:00 am

Alas, scooter has been sold. Sucks, I was going to head down there this Saturday.

But yeah, DC Mac speed limit is 35 with a lot of stop and go. There are also lots of bike lanes.

Back to the scooter search! What make of 50cc scooters do you guys recommend?

If I was to order a scooter online, what would you guys recommend as best way to ship?

Thanks for the help guys.

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:36 pm

Coolda wrote:But yeah, DC Mac speed limit is 35 with a lot of stop and go. There are also lots of bike lanes.

Cool, but scooters and mopeds usually aren't permitted in bike lanes.

Back to the scooter search! What make of 50cc scooters do you guys recommend?

You can't go too wrong with Genuine, Honda, Yamaha, Kymco, or SYM.

If I was to order a scooter online, what would you guys recommend as best way to ship?

I'd recommend not doing it.

If you're talking about buying used from an individual, you should really inspect the bike and look them in the eye before buying. And if you're thinking of ordering new from an online-only dealer, be aware that those are usually manufactured with little quality control in China, making them not just unreliable but potentially unsafe. If there were no dealers in your area and you couldn't find a used one locally, it'd be worth considering, but I don't think you'll have to resort to that.

Coolda · Post by **Coolda** » Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:57 pm

Thanks for the help everyone. Hopefully I can find a used scooter soon! If anyone knows one for sale under 900 please PM me (Near DC -/+ 200 miles).

Thanks again!