Unpredictable loss of power

NeoGenesisMax · Post by **NeoGenesisMax** » Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:47 pm

Ok maybe somebody here can help me with my problem. I'll first describe my scooter to get that out of the way.

2013 Genuine Budy 50 (2-stroke)
All stock except for an added rear luggage rack and top case that was installed by the dealer at purchase.
Derestricted after 300 miles
First service was at 300 as well
Ran mineral oil for the first 900 or so miles now full synthetic
Second service at 1500 miles
After the first service somewhere around 500 miles it fouled the plug and died on me. And sometime before that the oil pump was leaking but both issues were repaired. One under warrenty and the other was roughly $5.

All work has been done by the authorized dealer. I also followed the breakin procedures as listed by the manual to the letter and I've only run premium 91 or 93 octane gas that is ethenol free. Everytime I ride I allow it to warm up long enough for the lights to stop flickering and the idle to adjust (about five minutes). If I run full throttle now it's only for a maximum of two miles or so.

Here is my problem.

I've notice that my speed changes quite a bit. I have one stretch of good quality road I ride on regularly. The speed limit is 45mph. I've ridden in many temps, weather conditions, and wind speeds and I average about 43 mph (47 bmph). Now some days I just won't go and I have no clue why. I am fairly set in my routine so I feel that it's the scooter not the opperator. Some days it just goes about 35 mph (41 bmph). I hate this because I become a problem for others on the road and it makes me look bad. One day, right after the second service, it ran about 47 mph (52 bmph) all on the same stretch of road at the same throttle positions. I've noticed that when it is bogging down that it never fixes itself while being ridden. It does it through the full range too. From dead stop to top speed its bogged. It only stops if I let it set for a time and then ride again. I'm fairly sure it's not over heating because it will do this early on sometimes. Some times while I'm riding if I slow down or reduce the throttle I can hear the exhaust become muffled and stop making its usual noise. It did this when the plug fouled and the the scoot died but now randomly does it on rare occasion. If I notice it I quickly rev it once and it goes back to sounding normal. I've also noticed that once in a while, usually if its sat for a day, I'll rev it real good after it's warmed up and is still on the center stand and let it shoot all the smoke out. When I do this it always runs strong. But I make sure not to rev it at full throttle for more than about four or five seconds and I don't do it regularly.

Please help me make this scooter runs consistently. Help me figure out what's wrong. I am sick of it randomly limiting me to a speed that is close to what it was when restricted. It's embarrassing.

agrogod · Post by **agrogod** » Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:44 pm

Just a quick question. When it was serviced was the fuel filter and air filter changed? I had a similar problem with my RH50 and changing the fuel filter cleared it up.

NeoGenesisMax · Post by **NeoGenesisMax** » Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:53 pm

agrogod wrote:Just a quick question. When it was serviced was the fuel filter and air filter changed? I had a similar problem with my RH50 and changing the fuel filter cleared it up.

Not that I know of. I believe they said the air filter was good dunno about the fuel filter.

I have some mechanical experience and knowledge and I could see how that would make sense but I would expect it to be more consistent in the loss of power if it were those two parts. I am willing to try though. They can't be much money for them.

spodgorski · Post by **spodgorski** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:42 am

Sounds like a fuel delivery problem. Most likely needs the carburetor cleaned, I would guess the pilot jet is dirty. I have a 2012 derestricted Buddy 50 with 1400 miles, have had similar issues. I know run 1oz of seafoam per gallon of gas all the time. Good luck.

NeoGenesisMax · Post by **NeoGenesisMax** » Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:35 pm

spodgorski wrote:Sounds like a fuel delivery problem. Most likely needs the carburetor cleaned, I would guess the pilot jet is dirty. I have a 2012 derestricted Buddy 50 with 1400 miles, have had similar issues. I know run 1oz of seafoam per gallon of gas all the time. Good luck.

The thing is brand new and has never sit for more than a day. I've only ever used ethanol free premium gas and you believe that the carb is already dirty? Damn how often do I need to clean it out? I guess I'll put in some seafoam just to be sure. Seafoam every tank sounds like majors overkill. The gas does have detergents in it as is. I understand once in a while just for piece of mind but where do you get your gas, the poorest part of Mexico? Ha ha

spodgorski · Post by **spodgorski** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:53 am

You can try running a tank of seafoam but you probably need to clean the jets on the carb. I would also put in a new spark plug as well. You may be fouling out your plug because of your long warm up time "5 minutes". You do not need to warm up a 2 stroke, a minute or so should do. The manual does recommend a few minutes of warm up but remember the manual is also used for the 125,150,170i 4 strokes. The 4 strokes need the warm up time.

I originally bought my gas @ Citgo 93 octane, I recently changed to Mobil. I think most of my problems are due to contaminants from the manufacturing process. I ended up replacing all of my fuel lines and filter. Fingers crossed.

Do me a favor.Look in your gas tank with a flashlight, see any junk?

avonpirate · Post by **avonpirate** » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:43 am

Last week I had an 'unpredictable power loss.'
Based on recent experiences I checked to see if I had lost conection with my battery. NOPE.
I sat on the seat,took a couple of deep ZENlike breaths and then, inspired by the meditation

I checked the emergency shut off switch.
Yep, those gloved fingers sabatouged me again. Inadvertently turning the scoot off. Turned it on and was able to leave the parking lot

NeoGenesisMax · Post by **NeoGenesisMax** » Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:09 pm

Ok so I ran the sea foam and it did nothing. Infact the guys at my shop told me that sea foam can be bad on these motors. It's getting worse now. My scooter won't electric start but the battery is good. Sometimes it won't even kickstart. I took it to the shop and they didn't know what to tell me. They just turned up the idle. Now it spins its rear tire like crazy when on the center stand. I haven't a clue of what to do.

spodgorski · Post by **spodgorski** » Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:17 pm

A couple of weeks ago I found the real problem with my 50. The ground wire terminal on the ignition coil was loose. It was completely black from arcing. I cleaned the terminals with sandpaper and wire brush, then crimped it back on. Runs like new. I put about 400 miles on it since then. All those carb cleans for nothing.

spodgorski · Post by **spodgorski** » Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:25 am

Forgot to include on last post. It's pretty bad that the scooter professionals are giving you advice on not using seafoam when they can't even diagnois the problem with your scoot. They do that for a living! Nothing like being a failure and making you pay for it.

NeoGenesisMax · Post by **NeoGenesisMax** » Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:57 pm

They didn't charge me a penny. They thought maybe the carb was dirty. To me that sounds wrong. If the carb was dirty it would affect more than the starting of the scoot. Now when I try the electric start it doesn't crank the motor at all it just makes a buzz noise. It used to kick start the first try every time and now it takes several tries. WTF is wrong with this POS? The thing is less than a year old and is already doing this. Add the oil pump problem and I'd have to say that quality control on these is close to that of my Chinese scooter. Funny thing is I was sold on the notion of this being quality. Anyone please help me find out what the problem is.

spodgorski · Post by **spodgorski** » Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:09 am

That sucks. I had that o ring problem on my oil pump as well @300miles. You'll get it figured out. I also had a bogging/missing issue @ around 600 miles. I guess some manufacturing junk worked it's way and got stuck in the reed valve. I think that's when they screwed up that ignition coil wire that was loose. In order to remove the reed valve you need to disconnect the wires on the coil. I thought I had a clunker too until I found that loose ignition coil wire. Solved all my problems. I like my 50 better than my 125.

I thought you had a loss of horsepower issue? I didn't know about the starting problem. So does the engine turn over when you engage the starter? If not maybe your battery needs to be charged or you have a loose battery cable , check all your connections. Once it starts, does it run smoothly? Hang in there, keep me posted.

NeoGenesisMax · Post by **NeoGenesisMax** » Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:44 pm

Ok here's the update. Even thought the battery powered all the lights and I was originally told it was fine, it wasn't. The battery was less than a year old and the scooter was ridden daily and still wasn't good enough for the job. I bought a new one and that fixed the starter problem.

Now the power problem is still a mystery.

It was dying but I thing it was a problem with the out door temps being about 32. I read that cold air is more dense and can make the scooter run lean. This kind of fits with how my scooter would start and idle but die after a few seconds of riding.

I am still at a loss for why it seems to ride slower some days. I haven't noticed it doing it recently though. Maybe it was some sort of build up on the valves like that guy said. I don't know. I'm just glad it hasn't done it in a few months.

spodgorski · Post by **spodgorski** » Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:49 pm

That's great. You are correct about the lean condition in cold weather. My top speeds in the cold weather are about 10mph less compared to hot weather.Weight and wind also play a big factor in lower speeds. Don't forget it's a 50cc. The design intent is to reach speeds of 30mph.

tortoise · Post by **tortoise** » Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:43 pm

NeoGenesisMax wrote:Maybe it was some sort of build up on the valves

spodgorski · Post by **spodgorski** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:03 am

Nice video. I had some gunk on mine as well. The engine would bog anything over half throttle.They cleaned & flipped the reeds over.

Modern Buddy