Variator Damage from Sliders?

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 6:34 pm

I was considering changing out my variator rollers for Dr. Pulley sliders. My shop warned me that sliders can cause damage to the variator and void my warranty. I'm a bit skeptical myself.

Has anyone here experienced variator damage by using Dr. Pulley sliders?

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:55 pm

I've done about 20,000 miles on sliders. No problems at all when properly maintained.

Tocsik · Post by **Tocsik** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:05 pm

Skootz Kabootz wrote:I've done about 20,000 miles on sliders. No problems at all when properly maintained.

Nope. 30K or so with sliders and no problems caused by them.

Tazio · Post by **Tazio** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:26 pm

Love my sliders in the Buddy! Plan to use them in my Vespa when the time comes.

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:45 pm

Thank you for the input. Normally, I don't worry about things like warranties, as all my other bikes are now at least 25 years old and were well out of warranty when I got them. Plus, you never consider such stuff when someone drops off a gutted '85 Elite 80 and says "Have fun with it!"

Lostmycage · Post by **Lostmycage** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:51 am

This can only happen if you use an over-range driven pulley. The only part that gets worn is the part of the ramp that touches during idle, but even that won't "wear through"; it stops once it wears a small groove at the idle end of the ramps. So you'll notice it when you take it apart, but not when riding.

Sliders on all else OEM equipment will be fine.

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:03 pm

all of this begs the question (which I'm sure I could find if I dug deep), what are our stock weights, and what is everyone using for the slider replacements?

Since they last so long, maybe PGO/Genuine should make 'em stock!

.

jmazza · Post by **jmazza** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:08 pm

skully93 wrote:all of this begs the question (which I'm sure I could find if I dug deep), what are our stock weights, and what is everyone using for the slider replacements?

Since they last so long, maybe PGO/Genuine should make 'em stock! .

IIRC, The Buddy 125 comes with 11.5g roller weights. I replaced mine with Dr Pulley 11g sliders.

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:22 pm

Thanks, Jmazza!

I replaced my kymco weights with 20g sliders (I think the stock is either 20 or 21). Made a lot of difference to the worn out rollers. An aftermarket variator is going in soon, so I'll check them out.

if the 125/150 actually benefit from sliders, maybe next service I'll have them added in.

jmazza · Post by **jmazza** » Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:09 pm

skully93 wrote:Thanks, Jmazza!

I replaced my kymco weights with 20g sliders (I think the stock is either 20 or 21). Made a lot of difference to the worn out rollers. An aftermarket variator is going in soon, so I'll check them out.

if the 125/150 actually benefit from sliders, maybe next service I'll have them added in.

I can't honestly say I got any perceivable benefit. I replaced them as general maintenance but, when I did, the shop said that my stock rollers were in nearly new shape.

Still, with the glowing reviews they receive, I figured since I had to replace them anyway I might as well go with the Dr Pulley sliders.

buddyguy · Post by **buddyguy** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:58 am

az_slynch wrote:I was considering changing out my variator rollers for Dr. Pulley sliders. My shop warned me that sliders can cause damage to the variator and void my warranty. I'm a bit skeptical myself.

Has anyone here experienced variator damage by using Dr. Pulley sliders?

If they are Dr. Pulley they will not damage the variator. I met with the representative of the company and she showed me specifically that the material is made to wear before the variator or clutch bell (for the Hit Clutch) gets damaged.

There were some other brands that were copying Dr. Pulley's design but using a harder/harsher material that were damaging components. That's probably where your mechanic got his information. If you get genuine Dr. Pulley parts from a reputable dealer you should be dandy!

VinylDoctor · Post by **VinylDoctor** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:13 pm

Cheep sliders damaged my underware.
damn rallys!

hal888 · Post by **hal888** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:56 pm

I've notice about a 15% decrease in gas mileage with switching to Dr. Pulley sliders (11 g). I'm thinking about switching back to rollers.

buddyguy · Post by **buddyguy** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:42 pm

hal888 wrote:I've notice about a 15% decrease in gas mileage with switching to Dr. Pulley sliders (11 g). I'm thinking about switching back to rollers.

Hi performance parts don't really account for gas milage. In racing they say going fast cost money. The way these buddy's are tuned at the factory it would be hard (not impossible) to squeeze out more gas mileage then what they are already capable of.

Dean F · Post by **Dean F** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:30 pm

hal888 wrote:I've notice about a 15% decrease in gas mileage with switching to Dr. Pulley sliders (11 g). I'm thinking about switching back to rollers.

I have found that the 13g. are much closer to stock. I think they are a huge improvement over rollers.

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Sat Dec 01, 2012 4:12 am

buddyguy wrote:
hal888 wrote:I've notice about a 15% decrease in gas mileage with switching to Dr. Pulley sliders (11 g). I'm thinking about switching back to rollers.
Hi performance parts don't really account for gas milage. In racing they say going fast cost money. The way these buddy's are tuned at the factory it would be hard (not impossible) to squeeze out more gas mileage then what they are already capable of.

I added the prima pipe and gained @ 2-3mpg....

I preface that with my normal driving range is 5300-8000ft. YMMV

buddyguy · Post by **buddyguy** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:00 am

skully93 wrote:
buddyguy wrote:
hal888 wrote:I've notice about a 15% decrease in gas mileage with switching to Dr. Pulley sliders (11 g). I'm thinking about switching back to rollers.
Hi performance parts don't really account for gas milage. In racing they say going fast cost money. The way these buddy's are tuned at the factory it would be hard (not impossible) to squeeze out more gas mileage then what they are already capable of.
I added the prima pipe and gained @ 2-3mpg....

I preface that with my normal driving range is 5300-8000ft. YMMV

The Prima pipe is not considered a hi performance pipe unless it is modified. Don't know if you noticed, but not only does it have a restrictor plate, it also has a catalytic converter in it.

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:20 pm

Noticed no such animal. it certainly hasn't restricted me, as it seems much peppier in the mid-range and is a little more willing to get to top speed.

I dunno about catalytic converter so much as stuff in there to make it sound different. Not going to take it apart to find out.

Overall it's such a tough little bike I'm wary of messing with it too much.

MGM · Post by **MGM** » Thu Dec 06, 2012 2:37 pm

I doubt the Prima oipe has a converter. When The Black Jack first came out, the Prima pipe was described as "off road use only" and was shiped as a seperate part, not Factory installed.

thatvwbusguy · Post by **thatvwbusguy** » Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:12 am

Conventional wisdom when switching from rollers to Dr. Pulley Sliders is to increase the weights by 0.5-1.5g each (ie. from 11.5g rollers to 13g sliders). Using a lighter slider will provide quicker low end acceleration, but will decrease top end speed. The higher engine revs for similar speeds when using 11g sliders vs. 11.5g rollers could also account for decreased MPG.

The Dr. Pulley sliders are encased in a slick composite coating. They will not harm your variator, since the roller material coating is softer than the alloys used in most variators.

hal888 · Post by **hal888** » Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:18 pm

This seems a likely explanation, and I didn't know that I should have used a heavier slider to replace my rollers. I thought a gram was a gram was a gram, but clearly some grams count more than others. Certainly this can be confirmed when I replace my too light sliders with a heavier set. Thanks!

skully93 · Post by **skully93** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:03 am

I'd be interested to hear your experience. did a lot of stuff to my 250 this weekend with the help of some friends. Smooth as butter, but the top end decreased a bit. Could also be new parts breaking in.

Rusty Shackleford · Post by **Rusty Shackleford** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:51 pm

I have 11g Dr. Pulley sliders in the Buddy 125 and it runs smooth as butter. Everyone else has already given the run down on why they won't cause damage, but I had 2 thoughts on them behaving like they weigh slightly less.

1. They claim, on their official website and their YouTube channel, that they allow for a slightly lower gear ratio. There is a slight kick when accelerating from a stop that you adapt your throttle technique to after a few days.

2. Due to the fact that they slide and not roll, they may simply take more force to rise.

Either way, 11g is 11g, but this would explain why they have a perceivable difference in performance characteristics. Personally, my GF who rides the scooter primarily, loves them. It's added a little bit of a "lower gearing" affect that helps balance out the fact that we ride together with me on the CBR250R.

Scooterboi · Post by **Scooterboi** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:34 pm

Rusty Shackleford wrote:I have 11g Dr. Pulley sliders in the Buddy 125 and it runs smooth as butter. Everyone else has already given the run down on why they won't cause damage, but I had 2 thoughts on them behaving like they weigh slightly less.

1. They claim, on their official website and their YouTube channel, that they allow for a slightly lower gear ratio. There is a slight kick when accelerating from a stop that you adapt your throttle technique to after a few days.

2. Due to the fact that they slide and not roll, they may simply take more force to rise.

Either way, 11g is 11g, but this would explain why they have a perceivable difference in performance characteristics. Personally, my GF who rides the scooter primarily, loves them. It's added a little bit of a "lower gearing" affect that helps balance out the fact that we ride together with me on the CBR250R.

Purely my 2 cents (and a serious pull from the rectal databank) but my take on the difference is that the shape allows the center of mass to sit "a skosh" closer to variator's the axis of rotation. This means it takes a bit more rotational speed to get them to start moving.

Why this instead of the friction approach? All rollers still have to slide on one surface or the other to work. So (IMHO) the friction alone won't account for the difference.

What difference does it make? The Center of Mass theory says the effect only happens at the begining of accelleration and that there is a geater range of motion. The Friction theory applies throughout the range of motion. I think the only noticeable difference would be a slight (maybe unnoticeable) change in gas mileage and a slightly higher top speed (greater range of motion).

Rusty Shackleford · Post by **Rusty Shackleford** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:28 pm

@Scooterboi: Either way, yeah. They have a little bit different performance characteristics, but my only concern with the "functioning like lighter weights"was any potential decrease in top speed. In that particular attribute, they seem to follow the notion that 11g is 11g is 11g. There's no lower top speed just because they're sliders of the same weight compared to rollers. I've hit the same 72bmph on both 11.5g rollers and 11g Dr. Pulley sliders.

Skootz Kabootz · Post by **Skootz Kabootz** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:22 pm

As far as the variator is concerned, the only thing that will affect top end speed is the position of your belt.

The truth is that the only way your top end will be affected by a slider is if the slider is not heavy enough to enable your belt to get all the way to the outermost edge of the variator. So 11g, 11.5g, 12g, 12.5g, it doesn't matter, so long as the belt is getting full travel, top end speed will be the same. I think some people put in a heavier slider and think that has made their scooter faster where in reality what it likely has done is simply increase the travel of their belt, something that could also have been accomplished with a heavier roller weight.

With slider vs roller you may feel a difference in the power ramp and how it feels while you GET to that top speed, but there is no increase in top end speed itself. Once your belt is all the way to the outermost edge of the variator, that is as fast as your scooter is going to go without additional modifications.

TL;DR — There is no top end speed benefit in rollers vs sliders.

VinylDoctor · Post by **VinylDoctor** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:04 pm

You must drain the grease off them before you jam the little burgers in your scooter. and dont forget to remove the pickles first.

s l i d e r s

SYMbionic Duo · Post by **SYMbionic Duo** » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:19 pm

MGM wrote:I doubt the Prima oipe has a converter. When The Black Jack first came out, the Prima pipe was described as "off road use only" and was shiped as a seperate part, not Factory installed.

The Prima Pipe for the Buddy doesn't have a converter, and is pretty high flowing. There is another Prima Pipe that is more restrictive and may have a Cat, I think it is the one for the LX150.

sidenote, Adam aka BlackSunshine has a Prima pipe on his BJ that doesn't look like any other BJ pipe that i've seen, and i think that he's got the LX pipe.

LX pipe:

BJ pipe:

Notice the difference in rear openings

Modern Buddy

Variator Damage from Sliders?

Variator Damage from Sliders?

Re: Variator Damage from Sliders?