Now I can't decide...

Discussion of the Genuine Buddy, Hooligan, Black Jack and other topics, both scooter related and not

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macgawd
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Now I can't decide...

Post by macgawd »

I've been wanting a Buddy 125 ever since I first saw one, but now I'm torn, because I've been checking out another scoot that I almost like better, at least as far as looks goes: the TN'G Low Boy 150. If you haven't seen it, here's a pic:

Image


I love the retro looks, and I especially love the chrome and lack of cowling around the handlebars and gauges. This scoot seems more customizeable than the Buddy is, but I haven't been able to find anything about the Low Boy as far as customer satisfaction goes. Does anyone know of a good review of this scoot? Do any of the resident dealers/mechanics have any input about this compared to the Buddy?

Michael
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avidgirl
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Post by avidgirl »

I'm new to scootering, so don't take my word as the last, but according to a thread from another message board I'm on, T'NG scooters have recently gone downhill in terms of quality parts. Something about Schwinn taking their suppliers and T'NG having to scramble to find someone else to supply their parts. Don't know how much of this is true, but its a lead worth checking out before you buy.

I did a lot of reseach and finally settled on the Buddy for my first scooter (for a variety of reasons). I started with a long list and slowly narrowed the bikes down then did some test drives and made a choice. My advice would be to keep looking until you know in your gut that one scooter above all the rest is the one for you.

Good luck with your search!
Leigh

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angieyou3
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Post by angieyou3 »

There are horrible reviews about the lowboy on www.urbanscootin.com. I was looking at that scooter as well and after reading the reviews that I have come across (i.e. not a single good word about the lowboy) Im glad that I made the decision that I did.
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Post by golfingirl »

macgawd,

Hey, I'm no expert, but like the others that have posted here, I haven't heard one good thing said about TN'G scooters reliability... especially the lowboy for some reason. Like avidgirl, I did a ton of research on scooters prior to purchasing my Buddy. While it's a new product, the reviews for the Buddy are fantastic with a reliable dealer's name behind it and produced by PGO, another tried and true scooter builder. If you love the looks of the lowboy, but want more reliabilty, why not get a Vino? Sounds like the best compromise to me! Good luck with your decision.
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macgawd
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Post by macgawd »

From what I understand, TN'G only recently reintroduced the Low Boy, after taking it off the market to address fit and finish issues with the Scoot. So far, I've not been able to find anything on the new/improved version (the links to bad reviews were of the old version of the Low Boy).

That said, I have found on other discussion boards that people who own TN'G scoots are very satisfied with them; it stands to reason that TN'G can't be as bad as some have made out, or dealers simply wouldn't stock them due to customer complaints/returns. If you were a scooter dealer, would you stock the TN'G's if they were nothing but crap?

Michael
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SteMer
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Post by SteMer »

Call Seth at Metro Scooter in Cincinnati. They deal Genuine, TGB and T'NG scooters. He'll be honest with you. I know he's sold at least a couple Low Boys recently but he's been selling a lot more Buddies.

www.metroscooter.com 513-631-MODS
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Post by peabody99 »

I love, love , love the looks of the low boy as many of the the tngs. that said I am not sure of the quality vs the buddy. my co worker has had her tng in at least twice since she bought it a year ago...warrenty expired no less. her turn signals went out and after 6 weeks the part still is not in/available...yikes . I wish the quality matched the looks because they do look nice. my scooter shop seemed to honestly and discretely direct me to the Buddy when I asked the quality question (thanks!). keep researching and see what you find out. Maybe some models are better than others?
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Post by BoneGirl »

My husband and I went to a dealer to buy TNG and the dealer talked us out of them due to lower quality. I think they found out AFTER they bought and sold them. So that's why they are pushing the Buddies and NOT the TNG's.
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Post by Mike @ NoHo Scooters »

I used to be a TNG dealer.

Get the Buddy.

Nuff said.
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Named "Best Scooter Shop" by Los Angeles Magazine in their 2009 Best Of LA issue!

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Post by Shellee »

My dealer dropped the TNG line when they couldn't get TNG to even respond to their phone calls.

Don't make your scooter-buying decision based just on appearance. You LIKE the looks of the Lowboy (so do I!), but consider what the responses to your post are telling you. All of us chose the Buddy after doing the research and asking the same questions you're asking now.

Best of luck with your scooter search.
~ Shellee
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macgawd
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Post by macgawd »

Well, now I'm really bummed. Just talked with my local dealer, and they told me they used to be TN'G's number one seller until a couple of years ago, when their quality took a nose dive. He said that they weren't going to sell the Low Boy, and they were not sure if they were going to continue selling any of the TN'G scoots after their current inventory is sold. Man, I really loved the look of that thing, and though the Buddy probably can't be beat for quality and reliability, it just looks like a plastic toy compared to the Low Boy.

I guess that I'll just have to get over it. Maybe by the time I'm ready to buy a scoot, I'll have forgotten all about how awesomely cool I'd look scootin' around on the Low Boy... :(

Michael
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Post by BoneGirl »

Sorry, Dude! :(
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Post by rickyd410 »

macgawd wrote:Well, now I'm really bummed. Just talked with my local dealer, and they told me they used to be TN'G's number one seller until a couple of years ago, when their quality took a nose dive. He said that they weren't going to sell the Low Boy, and they were not sure if they were going to continue selling any of the TN'G scoots after their current inventory is sold. Man, I really loved the look of that thing, and though the Buddy probably can't be beat for quality and reliability, it just looks like a plastic toy compared to the Low Boy.

I guess that I'll just have to get over it. Maybe by the time I'm ready to buy a scoot, I'll have forgotten all about how awesomely cool I'd look scootin' around on the Low Boy... :(

Michael
You can always go with the Vino. It's got comparable looks, and it's a good bike.
macgawd
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Post by macgawd »

You can always go with the Vino. It's got comparable looks, and it's a good bike.
I'm starting to lean that way. Never looked at the Vino 125 before, and you're right--it does have comparable looks, plus a lot of customizable options, not to mention that it's made by Yamaha, and not some no-name Chinese company. I'm still considering the Buddy, but right now I'm going to go check out a Vino 125, and see how they compare!

Michael
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Post by BoneGirl »

Buddy! Buddy! Buddy! I got a look at the new Blur from Genuine. Bigger wheels and 150cc. Have you seen that yet? I still love the Buddy 125cc.
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Post by scarabmonkey »

I "bought" one of the first Low Boys to come out and all I can say is that it was a not all that shiny turd!!!!!

POS...Run away!!!! From what I have heard, dealers are dropping tng left and right once they see the lineup from Genuine...just heresay from around different forums...

I would stick to Gneuine or Yamaha...my 2 cents...
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Post by avidgirl »

My decision came down to either the Vino or the Buddy too. After test driving both, I decided on the Buddy. For me, the Vino didn't feel as peppy and also didn't seem as easy to ride at the Buddy.

I really like the look of the Vino and think it is a beautiful scooter. But my local Yamaha dealer was not helpful at all (not sure if they didn't care about selling a scooter or if they ignored me because I'm not a guy) and that influenced my decision even further.

Can you test drive both scooters and then see which one is for you? I found it difficult to find a dealer that would let me test the Vino but my closest scooter shoppe let me test drive any scooter they had available.

Good luck with your search.
Leigh

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macgawd
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Post by macgawd »

avidgirl wrote:I really like the look of the Vino and think it is a beautiful scooter. But my local Yamaha dealer was not helpful at all (not sure if they didn't care about selling a scooter or if they ignored me because I'm not a guy) and that influenced my decision even further.
That's too bad. I doubt that it's because you're a girl--I suspect that most Yamaha dealers aren't all that interested in selling scooters, because there's not much of a profit margin. I fully expect to be treated poorly at the local Yamaha dealer when I go visit them tomorrow, which is why I'm doing as much research as possible. I'm fully convinced that the Buddy is a top notch scooter, and now I want to find out all I can about the Vino.
Can you test drive both scooters and then see which one is for you? I found it difficult to find a dealer that would let me test the Vino but my closest scooter shoppe let me test drive any scooter they had available.
I don't really know. The local scooter shop may allow test drives, but I've never asked them (haven't had enough time to take a test drive anyway). I'll find out tomorrow about the Yamaha dealer.

Michael
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Post by macgawd »

Went to the local Yamaha dealer this morning to check out the Vino 125. Gotta say that I loved it--the fit and feel of it was great, and the price is right--$2400+tax. Now, if I could only get the local dealers to let me test drive each scooter to compare, I'd be able to make a more informed decision. So far, I'm leaning towards the Vino based on several things:

User ratings
Cost
Classic looks
Accessories available now, not in "two weeks"
Solid Yamaha quality

As far as I can see, the Buddy 125 has the advantage in excellent warranty, and perhaps performance, but it's at least $500 more, has no accessories, and looks too plastic-y for my taste. Granted, the Vino is also mostly plastic, but it doesn't look as cheap as the Buddy IMO. Belive me, I know the Buddy is far from cheap as far as fit and finish goes, but for better or worse, I put a lot of emphasis on aesthetics--I want to look good scootin' down the street! Call it vanity, but I just like the way the Vino looks over the Buddy.

Does that mean I lose my posting privledges? :oops:

Michael
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Post by rickyd410 »

So I just called up my local Yamaha dealer, and they won't let me test drive a Vino without two years experience with my motorcycle license.

First off he told me no test rides at all. They when pushed further he said without two years experience.

I said I guess this isn't the dealership for me.

What a difference the dealer makes.
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Post by FormerStella »

I, too, was torn between the Low Boy and the Buddy. Pride of Cleveland Scooters sells both, but Phil recommended the Buddy hands down. He felt it was more reliable, had a little more get up and go and he even took one on a race around Lake Erie and won for its class. If it's good enough for Phil, it's good enough for me.
"But not a real green dress, that's cruel!"
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Post by jrsjr »

FormerStella wrote:I, too, was torn between the Low Boy and the Buddy. Pride of Cleveland Scooters sells both, but Phil recommended the Buddy hands down.
Phil should know, he sells them both, and he knows what the heck he's talking about. Trust me.
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Post by avidgirl »

As far as I can see, the Buddy 125 has the advantage in excellent warranty, and perhaps performance, but it's at least $500 more, has no accessories, and looks too plastic-y for my taste. Granted, the Vino is also mostly plastic, but it doesn't look as cheap as the Buddy IMO. Belive me, I know the Buddy is far from cheap as far as fit and finish goes, but for better or worse, I put a lot of emphasis on aesthetics--I want to look good scootin' down the street! Call it vanity, but I just like the way the Vino looks over the Buddy.



Just an fyi, from what I have read, the Vino does not have matching topcases, in case that matters to you at all. You can get the black Givi topcase though. I think you will need a top case if you want to store a full face helmet on a Vino...don't think the underseat storage is large enough for a full face.

Also, aren't the Buddy and the Vino the same MSRP? My dealers are charging the same ($2499). In fact, my Buddy dealer is slightly cheaper than the Yamaha dealer after all the other added fees. Maybe your dealer is giving you a deal since the new models are out?

I think a lot of us like the looks of the Vino better than the asthetics of the Buddy. Its definitely more retro-looking. Its a nice scooter.

If the Vino is the scooter for you, then go for it. From your posts, it seems like that is your gut feeling...or you could always save up for a vintage Vespa!
:D
Leigh

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macgawd
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Post by macgawd »

Just an fyi, from what I have read, the Vino does not have matching topcases, in case that matters to you at all. You can get the black Givi topcase though. I think you will need a top case if you want to store a full face helmet on a Vino...don't think the underseat storage is large enough for a full face.
I probably won't go with a topcase, and I've heard varying stories about the underseat storage being able to fit a full-face helmet--probably depends on how big my head is! If it doesn't fit, it's no biggie--I plan on riding this hog mainly to work, and I'll be bringing the helmet inside with me, anyway.
Also, aren't the Buddy and the Vino the same MSRP? My dealers are charging the same ($2499).
The Yamaha dealer here in town doesn't add on anything but sales tax. Even after taxes, the Vino will come out cheaper for me, because the local scoot shop is charging $2899 for the Buddy out-the-door.
If the Vino is the scooter for you, then go for it. From your posts, it seems like that is your gut feeling...or you could always save up for a vintage Vespa!
:D
I think that the Vespas are just fine for people who want to pay for a name and the status of owning one, but I doubt that they're any better (or worse) than the Buddy or the Vino. A Mercedes isn't any better than a Chevy--it just costs more all around, and in the end, all you're paying for is the name.

Michael
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Post by AxeYrCat »

macgawd wrote:A Mercedes isn't any better than a Chevy--it just costs more all around, and in the end, all you're paying for is the name.
I apologize for being blunt:

You are dead wrong. The engineering, the materials, the build quality, the aesthetics... You might not care about all or any of those things, but to say that they're the same thing with a different brand badge slapped on the front is naive.

That's like saying that a bottle of Boone's Farm is the same thing as a bottle of Kristal. Or that a Big Mac and Kobe beef are the same... It just ain't so.
Huh? What just happened?
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Post by whattheheck »

AxeYrCat wrote:
macgawd wrote:A Mercedes isn't any better than a Chevy--it just costs more all around, and in the end, all you're paying for is the name.
I apologize for being blunt:

You are dead wrong. The engineering, the materials, the build quality, the aesthetics... You might not care about all or any of those things, but to say that they're the same thing with a different brand badge slapped on the front is naive.

That's like saying that a bottle of Boone's Farm is the same thing as a bottle of Kristal. Or that a Big Mac and Kobe beef are the same... It just ain't so.
Agreed. In this world we pay a premium for the "finest" and sometimes the finest is not 100 times better than average. Is a $10,000 pair of speakers better than a $100.00 pair - absolutley. However, some people could care less about sound quality - they just are not programmed to listen in such a way as to hear the difference or appreciate the difference. Some people can and do appreciate the difference. This applies to everything - cars, boats, wines, electronics, furniture, you name it and there is a top of the line version with some enhancement.

Everyone just has to decide for themselves what the threshold of gain for the dollar is. Anyone can argue the whether "claimed value" of something is better, but heck, even if it just makes you "feel better", that is a value that is hard to measure. That's why name brands are so valuble in this world. Some people will just feel better having a Mercedes or Vespa, or whatever.

"Value" is mostly subjective and therefore nearly impossible to argue to a "valid" conclusion.
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Post by vitaminC »

whattheheck wrote:Some people will just feel better having a Mercedes or Vespa, or whatever.
I would just feel better having a scooter! :P

And really, what is quality anyway?
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Post by Sailn »

WTH,
agreed but... to a deaf person $10,000 speakers really are the same as $100 (ignoreing any subsonics or low freq. signal which they would feel)

I have found that if explained properly, most people will understand "better" and usually want it...of course few are willing to pay for it.
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Post by macgawd »

AxeYrCat wrote:I apologize for being blunt:

You are dead wrong. The engineering, the materials, the build quality, the aesthetics... You might not care about all or any of those things, but to say that they're the same thing with a different brand badge slapped on the front is naive.
No apologies necessary, though I hope you do not mind if I'm equally blunt. In response to the claim that Mercedes (or similarly high-priced European auto) has better engineering, materials and build quality, I direct you to Consumer Reports, which has consistently placed Mercedes among the worst for reliability--this year, waaaay behind Ford, no less. In fact, this year's Consumer Report top 10 picks did not include a single high-priced European sedan.

http://money.cnn.com/2006/03/01/Autos/c ... /index.htm

The idea that more expensive means better made is simply a fallacy, and one that, sadly, too many people fall for. The best car I ever owned was 1995 Dodge Shadow--100,000 miles, and only in the shop once to replace the PCV valve. Contrast that with my Brother-In-Law, who spent over $50,000 for a Mercedes C230 Kompressor, and was constantly having it fixed. He sold it after two years and bought an Acura.

The build quality of these expensive clunkers is no better than a mid-priced Korean sedan. While at the Auto Expo in Indianapolis, I had taken the opportunity to check out Porsche's latest offerings in the Boxter line, and was appalled at the cheapness of them. Everything was cheap plastic, and I felt as if one wrong move might break some integral part of the car. The fit and finish were far worse than the Kia or Hyundai's, and all for the low, low price of $49,000. Feel free to spend your hard earned cash on a nameplate--I'll buy quality over status any day.

Michael
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Post by macgawd »

whattheheck wrote:Agreed. In this world we pay a premium for the "finest" and sometimes the finest is not 100 times better than average. Is a $10,000 pair of speakers better than a $100.00 pair - absolutley. However, some people could care less about sound quality - they just are not programmed to listen in such a way as to hear the difference or appreciate the difference. Some people can and do appreciate the difference. This applies to everything - cars, boats, wines, electronics, furniture, you name it and there is a top of the line version with some enhancement.
You're exactly the kind of person that the marketers of overpriced merchandise love! I would bet a month's salary that if I played you music through a pair of $10,000 and $100 speakers, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. The notion that more expensive means some "enhancement" is patently silly; I scoff at the morons who pay $50 to wear Abercrombie & Fitch T-shirts, knowing that their goods are manufactured in Asia for literally pennies. Not only have they bought into the marketing scam that more $$ = quality, they are also the unwitting walking billboards assuring both free advertising for A&F, and a whole new generation of suckers willing to fork out top dollar for a useless name.
Everyone just has to decide for themselves what the threshold of gain for the dollar is. Anyone can argue the whether "claimed value" of something is better, but heck, even if it just makes you "feel better", that is a value that is hard to measure. That's why name brands are so valuble in this world. Some people will just feel better having a Mercedes or Vespa, or whatever.
And that's a valid point. If someone wants to buy a Vespa or Mercedes because the name inspires confidence in them, that's great. But the argument that these name brands are better because they're more expensive is simply not true.

Michael
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Post by AxeYrCat »

I won't disagree with you as far as your most recent statement is concerned (at least, the one in response to me); however, I will point out that Lexus -- the company named as most reliable by the report that you linked to -- is certainly not in pricing competition with Chevrolet. :wink:

I will say that my Audi has been a HUGE pain as far as reliability is concerned, as have several of my VWs. And those factors definitely heavily influenced me to look outside the European market to buy an 'American' car made in Japan when my fiance and I acquired the most recent addition to our fleet -- I know that sounds totally retarded, so I'll explain further: We bought a Saab 92x Aero. Which is a GM product. But it's also ultimately a rebadged Subaru WRX with a different (and, IMO, more attractive) front end, a better warranty, and -- when we bought it -- a lower price (due to incentives to lower the price of GM vehicles).

But that said -- even though the car is definitely more reliable and has had no recalls in the 20k+ miles we've owned it -- the build quality isn't nearly as good, the materials from which it's constructed aren't nearly as nice, the interior is lacking both ergonomically and aesthetically, and it doesn't feel nearly as connected to the road as its truly European competition.

Are we happy with the car? Hell yes. Is the car reliable? Hell yes. Is it of the same 'quality' as its European counterparts? Hell no. It doesn't even come close.

As mentioned, it's all about what you want to spend your money on, and as asked about earlier, it's all about what you consider quality.

But based on what I imagine your definitions/priorities to be (based on your Chevy/Mercedes comment), I have no idea why you don't own a Buddy already. :wink: :D


And really, isn't that what this is all about? :lol:
Huh? What just happened?
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Buddy vs Vino

Post by BoneGirl »

I personally liked the Buddy better when purchasing a scooter because I didn't like the retro styling. One thing to throw into the mix is what will it cost when (not if) you need replacement parts for the Vino. You can buy all the Buddy panels for a total of $50.00. For that money, I'm thinking about buying the set so I can swap out pieces here and there and have a different scooter as whim permits :P
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Re: Buddy vs Vino

Post by rickyd410 »

BoneGirl wrote:I personally liked the Buddy better when purchasing a scooter because I didn't like the retro styling. One thing to throw into the mix is what will it cost when (not if) you need replacement parts for the Vino. You can buy all the Buddy panels for a total of $50.00. For that money, I'm thinking about buying the set so I can swap out pieces here and there and have a different scooter as whim permits :P
I know what I'm asking for Christmas.. :)
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Post by macgawd »

AxeYrCat wrote:I won't disagree with you as far as your most recent statement is concerned (at least, the one in response to me); however, I will point out that Lexus -- the company named as most reliable by the report that you linked to -- is certainly not in pricing competition with Chevrolet. :wink:
Very true. But at best, this simply underscores the absurdity of claiming that expensive always means better--after all, the number two most reliable car is the Honda, who's most expensive model is 5 times less expensive than the top of the line Lexus. All things being equal, I'd prefer to spend $30,000 for a Honda Accord, than spend over $100,000 for a Lexus LS for what is essentially the same level of quality and performance.
But that said -- even though the car is definitely more reliable and has had no recalls in the 20k+ miles we've owned it -- the build quality isn't nearly as good, the materials from which it's constructed aren't nearly as nice, the interior is lacking both ergonomically and aesthetically, and it doesn't feel nearly as connected to the road as its truly European competition.

Are we happy with the car? Hell yes. Is the car reliable? Hell yes. Is it of the same 'quality' as its European counterparts? Hell no. It doesn't even come close.
But that begs the question: does the 'quality' you speak of make any real difference when you consider how unreliable the "better" car was?
As mentioned, it's all about what you want to spend your money on, and as asked about earlier, it's all about what you consider quality.
I consider "quality product" to be a product who's reliability equals or exceeds the price paid; a $20,000 car with modest accouterments that doesn't break down is a "quality product"; A $80,000 car with state-of-the-art materials and gadgets that constantly needs repairs is not a "quality product", and shouldn't be considered such by any rational person.
But based on what I imagine your definitions/priorities to be (based on your Chevy/Mercedes comment), I have no idea why you don't own a Buddy already. :wink: :D
Primarily, money--or lack thereof--is the real issue for why I don't have one already. I'm considering the Vino 125 over the Buddy largely because of looks. In my opinion, the Buddy and the Vino are of similar quality, but the dealers are charging more for the Buddy than the Vino where I live (by about $500), and I like the Vino's classic looks better than the Buddy's plastic-y coverings. Over all, the reliability seems to be equal between the two; they've both got nearly identical displacement, CVT transmissions and storage capacity. However, the Vino has accessories available now, not in "two weeks", as Genuine continually claims for the Buddy. For me, the decision comes down to looks and price--I consider the Buddy and the Vino to be neck and neck as far as performance and reliability.

Michael
macgawd
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Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:22 pm
Location: Chattanooga, TN

Re: Buddy vs Vino

Post by macgawd »

BoneGirl wrote:One thing to throw into the mix is what will it cost when (not if) you need replacement parts for the Vino. You can buy all the Buddy panels for a total of $50.00. For that money, I'm thinking about buying the set so I can swap out pieces here and there and have a different scooter as whim permits :P
I don't plan on having to replace any of the panels on the Vino when I purchase it, but if I do, that's what scooter insurance is for. Yes, it's neat that the Buddy is so easy to swap out panels, but that's not really something I'm interested in doing, anyway. I like the retro looks of the Vino, and find that these types of scooters are far more customizable than the Buddy, which is mostly seat and floorboard. Probably why the panels are so cheap--there's not much there to replace.

Check out these pics of a customized Vino 125:

http://www.provoscooter.com/vbull/vbgar ... ew&id=1492

Try THAT with a Buddy!

I kid--I'm not disparaging the Buddy--in fact, it was my first choice before I fell in love with the Vino's retro styling, and if for some reason I couldn't get the Vino, I'd definitely be heading to the local Buddy dealer.

Michael
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BoneGirl
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Location: Mt. Healthy, Ohio

I can't decide

Post by BoneGirl »

Well, Michael, from what I've read it sounds like you have decided so we can probably close this topic. I think you'll have an awesome time on the Vino! Welcome to the world of scooters and all the choices we have.
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