miles per quart of oil 2T

longroof · Post by **longroof** » Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:46 am

Just wondering how many miles you all are getting per quart of oil on your Stella 2T's. On my 1975 Suzuki GT550 3 cylinder I once road from Denver, CO to Indinapolis, IN (about 1,000 miles) and topped it off with one quart of Wolfshead 2 cycle oil. At 44,000+ trouble free miles I traded it in for a Kawasaki KZ1300. Should have kept the 2 stroke...

Let me know. Thanks!

mr bill · Post by **mr bill** » Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:25 am

I'd say about 700 to 800 miles per liter.
No scientific data just an estimate.
12,255 mile on the scoot now, of course first engine
grenaded at 2300 miles (another story).

longroof · Post by **longroof** » Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:04 am

Thanks Bill. Usually got 7-800 per quart commuting including city/country riding on the GT.

lorenajack · Post by **lorenajack** » Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:22 pm

In addition to the AOM (Automatic Oil Mixer) I add 1oz per gallon of gas. That way things stay nicely lubricated. Smokes a bit, but I'd rather
have exhaust smoke than piston-to-cylinder burning smoke.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:43 pm

lorenajack wrote:In addition to the AOM (Automatic Oil Mixer) I add 1oz per gallon of gas. That way things stay nicely lubricated. Smokes a bit, but I'd rather have exhaust smoke than piston-to-cylinder burning smoke.

Why...auto lubes are about the most dependable component on a Stella 2T. I don't get the "rather have exhaust smoke than piston-to-cylinder burning smoke". 2T oil does lube the cylinder but it's primary job is to lube the bearings. At WOT you are running well over 3% and closer to or above! 4% You could be in for rejetting, decoking and exhaust cleaning much earlier than usually needed Heck...the old piston ported GS and SS Vespas ran at 5%...you're almost there.

More isn't always better!

fisher1 · Post by **fisher1** » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:12 am

Why...auto lubes are about the most dependable component on a Stella 2T.

True. However, it's difficult to state actual %'s when so many Stellas have been rejetted, thus increasing the fuel flow ..... but with the same oil flow from the autolube.

Meaning that if a carb is upjetted, the engine is getting more fuel but less oil percent because the autolube does not provide any more oil just because the carb was upjetted.

I often wonder if that is a contributing cause to bearing issues.

To compensate for my scoot being upjetted, I add 1oz of 2T oil to every 2 gal of fuel, which is about 0.4 % mix. The added oil doesn't lean out the fuel/air mix because I'm upjetted anyway, but it does help restore the oil% to that of the fuel/oil mix with normal jets.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:55 pm

I've heard this agrument before but I just don't buy it. Upjetting does increase fuel flow...but in reality, upjetting a couple of points say for a Sito+ and deblueing the filter is not changing the ratio much at all. Also remember that even if the % injected is less the volume injected stays the same, in other words you are still getting the same volume of oil per stroke.

If you are doing major mods then I would suggest going premix or just take the return spring off the auto lube. With the spring off you're getting about 3% adding more puts you close to 4%...then we can get into the running lean due to high oil ratio argument...which I refuse to do.

The bearing problems on the earlier Stella's were the result of crappy bearings, not inadequate lubrication.

fisher1 · Post by **fisher1** » Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:56 pm

Also remember that even if the % injected is less the volume injected stays the same, in other words you are still getting the same volume of oil per stroke.

Correct. So if A) upjetting from a 94 to 104 results in 15% more fuel (The flow differences for increased jet diameters is much more than a linear factor) but B) the oil volume continues to stay the same ..... then the oil % in the fuel also is reduced by 15% from where it was designed to be.

So what then results is more fuel to cool the piston and combustion chamber (which is good) but an oil film% in the fuel for bearing and ring lubrication that is lower than what they were engineered for.

No matter, each to their own thinking.

BTW, from a jetting standpoint, I found from watching CHT temps that upjetting the midrange was JUST as important in controlling temperature as a larger main jet. It's possible that there are 2Ts with modified exhausts and filters that are running around lean in the mid-range and with reduced lubrication in the top end.

But like I say, each to their own finding.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:26 pm

You make a good point. Many don't realize that the main jet doesn't kick in until about 3/4 throttle. They run plug chops at WOT in third and think that that is it...but they may be running way lean...or way rich in the low and mid range. That's the voodoo of tuning...getting it all set up to work well through the entire range.

A CHT is a great tool for keeping an eye on what is going on...actually more like what has already happened. An EGT really helps in getting correct jetting and timing...it lets you know what is happening right now!

fisher1 · Post by **fisher1** » Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:52 pm

Which EGT do you recommend & do you have any baseline temps from the stock configuration ?

I installed a CHT because I knew of one that was both inexpensive and easy to install as a ring around the spark plug's base.

TTO Kit: Temperature (14mm Spark Plug Sensor) 72-ET3 $39.95
(need to also order the lead extension they sell)
http://trailtech.net/tto_temperature.html

Thanks!

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:58 am

I like the westach EGT and CHT.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/in/ ... -01268.php.

If you have a glove box you can mount them there. I mounted mine to the mirror stalks with bullet shells

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:07 am

A good post by Aviator regarding % oil fron MV NSM

Aviator47 wrote: It's not the % of oil that is important, but the "absolute" amount introduced per revolution. Since pre-mix was around long before autolube, we tend to get hung up on 2%, 3%, etc. But there obviously has to be some way to determine how much oil is introduced to accomplish lubrication, so a percentage mix is established for non-autolube engines that provides enough lube for high RPM, yet not too much at low RPM. Thus, my use of the term "compromise".

After all those years of using % as the unit of measure in premix engines, we habitually try to figure the % in an autolube, and it is totally irrelevant. For autolube, the correct terminology would actually be microlitres per revolution, as that is what autolube is based on. The autolube has no idea of how much fuel is entering the engine, nor does it need to. The throttle correlation is just that. It increases oil flow per rev based upon the assumption that an open throttle is producing more RPM than a closed one, and the engine needs more lubricant per rev at high RPM than low.

Make sense?

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:16 am

For a Stella cast iron
cht = 350 deg F max
egt = 1200's deg F is nice

If running aluminum or Ni cal I would max at 400 cht. 1400 egt

YMMV

If you find you,re running hot pull the clutch and blip the throttle a few times

ankdworak · Post by **ankdworak** » Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:46 pm

I know that the CHT probes can commonly attach as a replaceable crush ring at the spark plug.
But do you have to drill the exhaust to install the EGT probe? If so, is there an optimal location to drill?

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:50 pm

Sometimes it makes life a lot easier to dremel down a fin for the CHT wire. I have also attached it to a stud furthest from the fan. You have to remember that the CHT doesn't read a direct Temp but the difference between ambient and head temp.

For the EGT...yep...gotta drill a hole. It needs to be fairly close to the exhaust port. I think I put mine after the first major bend so the flow would be a little smoother (yeah...right!). When you drill it use a center punch to start, drill slow and wd straight and once you're through...STOP! Don't want to open that hole up more than it needs to be an get some leaks

Also make sure you get the correct length probe, too long and it will be touching the other side of the pipe and measuring the pipe temp and not the EG temp.

kmrcstintn · Post by **kmrcstintn** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:29 pm

during the first 1000 miles I would mix @ 20-30 mL of oil into each tankful of gas; I'm not sure whether to continue this or just add a small amount of Marvel Mystery Oil which I'm gonna use as a fuel system & combustion chamber cleaner...it's always been known to have upper cylinder lubricating properties to boot

olhogrider · Post by **olhogrider** » Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:46 am

Marvel Mystery Oil is known to help old four stroke engines with sticky valves. It is a mystery what good it would do in a two stroke. Years ago, POC Phil told me that they don't run fancy syn oil in the 2T Stellas. The consumption was outrageous, but a switch to dino 30wt did the trick.

kmrcstintn · Post by **kmrcstintn** » Fri Apr 12, 2013 4:57 pm

I'm actually using the Marvel Mystery Oil as a fuel system cleaner...just curious about the lubricating properties in the upper cylinder;

I've heard about using 30wt engine oil instead of 2t oil, but I have a conundrum since the 30wt oil is usually used in 4-stroke engines and hence the flash point is much higher than 2T oils...I accidentally pre-mixed (on top of my autolube) some leftover 10w-40 motorcycle oil and my exhaust smoke increased noticeably and I had some plug fouling...

as far as which 2T oil to use, I've done low ash detergent dino, ashless detergent marine, low ash detergent synthetic blend, universal 2 cycle oil (for infrequent topoffs)...I have drained the tank recently to start over with Amsoil synthetic HP Injector (marketed toward marine use, but my shop (BMA Cycles) has had success in 2T engines not being used for racing (offroad bikes, go carts, etc); when the sight glass indicated I was still a bit low I added Havoline ashless detergent dino 2T (@ 6-8 oz to 32 oz of Amsoil)...pulled the plug and it looks good

fisher1 · Post by **fisher1** » Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:14 am

just curious about the lubricating properties in the upper cylinder;

As you know, there are no valve guides and the rings are lubed by the 2T mix that is formulated specifically for that purpose.