On a scale of kind of stupid to mindblowingly stupid...

jonlink · Post by **jonlink** » Sun May 12, 2013 8:49 pm

Here's the issue. I went to change the oil the other day and I noticed a little drop dangling from the drain plug. When I got the plug out I saw that it was cracked. I'd actually lost quite a bit of oil.

I've got a new oil drain plug on order (couldn't find any local). In the mean time I've got a very important trip. It's a two hour ride (each way).

I just bought and applied some JB Weld to the broken drain plug. Would it be totally insane for me to try and ride with this in the event that the new plug doesn't show up in time?

JB Weld has strength up to 3960 PSI and can withstand temps up to 550ºF. I'd obviously stop several times to check on it and I'd have a spare quart of oil.

Is this absolutely, mindblowingly stupid? Or just a tiny bit stupid? Thoughts? Heckles?

Tocsik · Post by **Tocsik** » Sun May 12, 2013 9:17 pm

is it the big drain in the bottom with the screen or the one on the left side of the motor?
If it's the one on the side, it's more of a bolt than a "part" like the one underneath. In that case, you could find a bolt same size same thread pitch as a temporary fix. Ace Hardware has a great selection.
I would personally be very nervous on a 2 hour ride with the JB Weld holding he oil in. On the other hand, it's not a high pressure system. If it holds enough to tighten to your satisfaction, you could be OK.

ohiotj · Post by **ohiotj** » Mon May 13, 2013 12:15 am

As long as you aren't trying to fix a threaded area, you should be fine. I've successsfully patched a rusted oil pan from a car with JB Weld. Just make sure the surface you want it to stick to is completely clean of oil and other contaminants.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Mon May 13, 2013 12:23 am

I would go for it. Check your repaired plug for leaks.

The trick to using JB weld is to get the surfaces clean clean clean. Clean with acetone, then clean with alcohol, then clean with alcohol, then clean with alcohol, then clean with alcohol.

Mix the correct proportions and follow the directions.

jonlink · Post by **jonlink** » Mon May 13, 2013 12:44 am

Ok well, then I'll use this as my backup plan. Thanks folks!

I cleaned the crap out of it and now it's setting. I hope I don't have to use it, but I'm prepared to roll the dice if needed.

Still not exactly sure what happened to the dang thing. The only thing I can think of is that I overtightened it, but that would have been a long while back and I would have noticed when I took it back on the road... Anyway. It's in Scooterworks' hands now.

scootERIK · Post by **scootERIK** » Mon May 13, 2013 3:52 am

The drain plug is very very easy to crack. I bought my Buddy used and did an oil change the week I got it and did it. When I tightened the replace I did it carefully and then I took a screw driver and scratch a line on the motor and onto the plug so that I would know how far to tighten it the next time.

Also, I bought an extra one that I have sitting with my extra filters so I am ready the next time it happens.

SYMbionic Duo · Post by **SYMbionic Duo** » Mon May 13, 2013 5:27 am

I'd go for it. JB Weld works well.

I've cracked the downspout on my gas tank 3 times now (two days in a row)

(don't even get me started on that fiasco) And each time JB Weld took care of the issue.

-duo

Scooterboi · Post by **Scooterboi** » Mon May 13, 2013 1:20 pm

It works very well! Just be sure you get the original JB weld and not one of the many other flavors available.

I saw a guy field repair a D6 Cat (bulldozer) with JB Weld. Had a crack in the block and was spraying coolant. Shut the engine down and let it sit for an hour, mixed both tubes and massaged it into the crack. 24 hrs later it ran just fine! We ran it hard like that for a month before we had the opportunity to put it in the shop and get a proper weld. (Red Horse exercise - was in Supply) Stuff is amazing.

Post by **ericalm** » Tue May 14, 2013 4:50 pm

Why do I suck at using JB Weld? Maybe I'm not kneading it right. Hm.

Tocsik · Post by **Tocsik** » Tue May 14, 2013 5:03 pm

BuddyRaton wrote:I would go for it. Check your repaired plug for leaks.

The trick to using JB weld is to get the surfaces clean clean clean. Clean with acetone, then clean with alcohol, then clean with alcohol, then clean with alcohol, then clean with alcohol.

Mix the correct proportions and follow the directions.

And be sure to clean it with alcohol.

SYMbionic Duo · Post by **SYMbionic Duo** » Tue May 14, 2013 5:09 pm

ericalm wrote:Why do I suck at using JB Weld? Maybe I'm not kneading it right. Hm.

The putty is a temp fix

We're talking about the epoxy.

Epoxy = Awesome

Putty = Meh

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Tue May 14, 2013 5:57 pm

ericalm wrote:Why do I suck at using JB Weld? Maybe I'm not kneading it right. Hm.

It takes practice. As said above get the real deal, two tubes.

To mix I use a paper plate and a toothpick or bamboo skewer.

Really mix it well...work it around mix turn it over....kind of like doing something I saw on some cooking show sometime...but I don't cook much. More like working bondo.

Once you get it into where it needes to be...leave it alone to cure. It is always tempting to pick it up...poke at it..."check how it is doing" etc...just leave it alone and let it cure!

It's not miracle stuff but it is great when used right for the right job.

Tocsik · Post by **Tocsik** » Tue May 14, 2013 6:23 pm

BuddyRaton wrote:
ericalm wrote:Why do I suck at using JB Weld? Maybe I'm not kneading it right. Hm.
It takes practice. As said above get the real deal, two tubes.

To mix I use a paper plate and a toothpick or bamboo skewer.

Really mix it well...work it around mix turn it over....kind of like doing something I saw on some cooking show sometime...but I don't cook much. More like working bondo.

Once you get it into where it needes to be...leave it alone to cure. It is always tempting to pick it up...poke at it..."check how it is doing" etc...just leave it alone and let it cure!

It's not miracle stuff but it is great when used right for the right job.

+1 to BuddyRaton. I mix on a piece of foil using a Popsicle stick or tongue depressor. Mix the heck out of it. Apply it and leave it alone. Unlike the putty, it needs to set-up without interference.

Scooterboi · Post by **Scooterboi** » Tue May 14, 2013 7:14 pm

Of course in a vertical application you have to do something to get it to stay before it sags. My favorite is duct tape and then peel it off after it (thoroughly) sets up. These two can just about fix anything as long as you don't want to take it apart later. (BTDT)

and +1 on the original article.

No putty. No specialized formulas for (insert application here). No dual syringes. Get the one with two (2) tubes. Follow the instructions.

Scooterboi · Post by **Scooterboi** » Tue May 14, 2013 7:54 pm

On the original issue, I too stripped out the gearbox drain plug trying to torque it to spec. The first thing you should know is that the OEM drain plug reaches only about 3/4 of the into drain. I don't know why. The up side is that if you do strip it you can get a longer bolt and it is quite likely that it will hold tight enough on those last 4 or 5 turns of virgin thread to get you somewhere. <scary> The bad news is they are pretty fragile and it is fine line between secure and striped.

The exasperating news is why didn't they just put the longer bolt in there in the first place to keep it from stripping out <sheesh>

There are a few ways to approach fixing it.
1. You mentioned the Helicoil, someone else mention Timesert (my preference). But if you drill the hole even a little off plumb it WILL NOT mate properly with the gearbox case and you are screwed because now you the fix is to drill out some very hard metal (difficult) or replace that half of the case (expensive). The other danger is accidently drilling into the gears because they are about 1/4" just above that hole. (oops)

2. You could get one of those expandable plugs they put in champagne bottle to keep the fizz. Not something I would trust or ever reccommend. Just slightly better than chewing gum (IMHO).

My fix (because I NEVER wanted to go through that again) was to mill, drill, and tap an insert out of an overly large grade 8 stainless bolt that would reach all the way through the case wall with the mating surface attached. I then took the gearbox apart, removed the gears, and drilled/tapped the hole to the larger size. Once I got all the shavings out and thoroughly rinsed everything with DN alcohol, I bedded the insert in (you guessed it) JB Weld. Now its the same thread count as the original on the inside and all the outside threads (from the large bolt) increased the surface area to give the JB Weld some real purchase. The hole is an additional 1/4" longer and the plug I used meets the same spec as the OEM part but goes all the way to just inside the case. Result: that "sukka" can now be tightened to spec (and then some) and has been holding nicely for about a year.

My take away from all this that the spec torque values in the manual should be approached with suspicion and caution. Especially on the aluminum parts. I go with "snug" and then (if it's a plug) I check it a couple of days later just to make sure (and then a week after that, and . . ., well you get the idea.)

jonlink · Post by **jonlink** » Wed May 15, 2013 11:33 am

My first thought was that I over-torqued it, but if that'd happened I would have had at least a small oil stain where it was parked for winter. There wasn't even a drop.

That makes me suspect that something else weird happened:
Aliens?
Neighborhood over-torquing bandit?

I'm probably to blame, but I just don't know what exactly I did or at least when I did it.

Scooterboi · Post by **Scooterboi** » Wed May 15, 2013 11:45 am

Ya. I was talking about the gearbox drain, not the oil drain.

Could be you just thwacked it with a rock or bounced off a curb just right to crack it. If you set it up right aluminum can be pretty brittle.

Finding "the answer" is the ideal (and an admirable goal) but then there is reality. You may never know or you may find out with the replacement plug. I wouldn't stress about it. Awareness is a Good Thing. You were checking things and found it before it became a Problem.

Much better than the alternative.