161 Kit
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- tommyred
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161 Kit
I just had the 161cc head kit installed. Great acceleration, but when I hit 50ph, that's it. That's almost as fast as it went before it was kitted.
Anyone else have this problem when they kitted theirs out? Help! I don't wanna feel like I wasted 600 bones.
Thanx
Anyone else have this problem when they kitted theirs out? Help! I don't wanna feel like I wasted 600 bones.
Thanx
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- Rusty Shackleford
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I would second the notion that it's a breathing issue. The general rule is that added displacement will do the most down low, while mods like a head/exhaust will give the gains up top. The 161 wasn't a waste, it's just incomplete if you're looking for more power at higher speeds. Personally, I'd say the Buddy is fine up to about ~45/50mph. 50+ is where it lacks. I think if the variator will bury the speedometer as some have claimed, the HP you're looking for in that range is completely justified. I may end up trying the exaust/rejet first and see how much it can sustain a solid 60mph. The other alternative is a Buddy 170i.
Last edited by Rusty Shackleford on Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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It needs the bigger head and intake manifold to get the best performance out of the top end.
http://www.scooterworks.com/ncy-big-val ... fq2sxaxl4Y
http://www.scooterworks.com/ncy-big-val ... fq2sxaxl4Y
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- tommyred
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I forgot what he said the jets were. And I've already gone 450 miles on it, with no noticible increaselovemysan wrote:The stock 125 cylinder head is restrictive. Mine was the similar. It takes 200-300 miles to break it in. It will be tight at first. I broke mine in the hard way motoman style. Also what main jet are you running?
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- tommyred
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I got this http://www.scooterworks.com/prima-cylin ... fq-Xsu9KK0ericalm wrote:It needs the bigger head and intake manifold to get the best performance out of the top end.
http://www.scooterworks.com/ncy-big-val ... fq2sxaxl4Y
And I already have the Prima pipe on it. And if I knew the top end would stay the same, I doubt I would have done it. I'm already in it this deep, so I might as well get the bigger head.
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You need the NCY 58.5mm head. You can add the head then add the intake later. These scooters like to be jetted kinda lean for peak power. I rejetted mine 3 times before I was happy. Each time I jetted down. You can loosen your airbox cover screws and take a short ride. If it picks up speed on the top end its most likely overjetted. This is a diagnostic method only. Tighten everything back up when your done. Proceed with caution and good luck.
- Christophers
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PM'ed you.tommyred wrote: I got this http://www.scooterworks.com/prima-cylin ... fq-Xsu9KK0
- tommyred
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[quote="lovemysan"]You need the NCY 58.5mm head. You can add the head then add the intake later. These scooters like to be jetted kinda lean for peak power. I rejetted mine 3 times before I was happy. Each time I jetted down. You can loosen your airbox cover screws and take a short ride. If it picks up speed on the top end its most likely overjetted. This is a diagnostic method only. Tighten everything back up when your done. Proceed with caution and good luck.[/]
I'm not looking to go 80, but I was hoping for at least 65. I'll end up getting the head & manifold installed. I'll try your suggestion also. The guys who did the work at Vespa Motorsports definitely know what they're doing. Maybe my expectations were a tad too high?
I'm not looking to go 80, but I was hoping for at least 65. I'll end up getting the head & manifold installed. I'll try your suggestion also. The guys who did the work at Vespa Motorsports definitely know what they're doing. Maybe my expectations were a tad too high?
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- Throwback7R
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try pulling the rubber part out of the air box! more air !
When i installed the 171 kit i pulled that and it made a world of difference " easy to do as well once you pull the cover you will see it. it is just a restrictor
I got bored and installed a larger carb as well and yea ever more speed. top speed is still limited by the gearing so dont get any crazy ideas on a high top speed.
When i installed the 171 kit i pulled that and it made a world of difference " easy to do as well once you pull the cover you will see it. it is just a restrictor
I got bored and installed a larger carb as well and yea ever more speed. top speed is still limited by the gearing so dont get any crazy ideas on a high top speed.
- tommyred
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Throwback7R wrote:try pulling the rubber part out of the air box! more air !When i installed the 171 kit i pulled that and it made a world of difference " easy to do as well once you pull the cover you will see it. it is just a restrictor
I got bored and installed a larger carb as well and yea ever more speed. top speed is still limited by the gearing so dont get any crazy ideas on a high top speed.
I'll have to try that. You're the 2nd person to mention that. I'm not looking for a dragster, but the speed limit would be nice. I could easily go 60 before, and now it hits 50 and it feels like it has no more.
Acceleration is bitchin', and climbing the mountains is much better. But I probably unfairly expected more by comparing it to my 150.
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Throwback7R wrote:try pulling the rubber part out of the air box! more air !When i installed the 171 kit i pulled that and it made a world of difference " easy to do as well once you pull the cover you will see it. it is just a restrictor
I got bored and installed a larger carb as well and yea ever more speed. top speed is still limited by the gearing so dont get any crazy ideas on a high top speed.
I'll have to try that. You're the 2nd person to mention that. I'm not looking for a dragster, but the speed limit would be nice. I could easily go 60 before, and now it hits 50 and it feels like it has no more.
Acceleration is bitchin', and climbing the mountains is much better. But I probably unfairly expected more by comparing it to my 150.
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I forget what jets they used, and I think the stock rollers. And the only other thing I did was the prima exhaust.Throwback7R wrote:Are you sure they jetted it correctly? The 161 should pull faster than the stock 150
What rollers you using?
Also, what else have you done to the scoot?
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I've had a 161 kit for 23k miles now. (22k on the first and had to replace now 1K on the second - the bigger head didn't need to be replaced) The top end should be higher than 50mph. While I didn't get a ton more speed out of it in the flats, I power up hills like no ones business. It should be about to hit 65mph indicated in a straight away pretty easy.
You do need a bigger head. you may need to go to slider vs rollers so you can get a slightly heavier weight than stock. heavier will take something off the line but give more at the top.
But yes you MUST get the bigger head with bigger valves to see the difference.
You do need a bigger head. you may need to go to slider vs rollers so you can get a slightly heavier weight than stock. heavier will take something off the line but give more at the top.
But yes you MUST get the bigger head with bigger valves to see the difference.
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I'll order the big head and intake manifold from Scooterworks, and get it installed in a couple weeks. Going up hills is much better, and I don't mind losing a little on takeoff. I gotta lean all the way forward if I give it the gas cause it'll pop a wheelie.jijifer wrote:I've had a 161 kit for 23k miles now. (22k on the first and had to replace now 1K on the second - the bigger head didn't need to be replaced) The top end should be higher than 50mph. While I didn't get a ton more speed out of it in the flats, I power up hills like no ones business. It should be about to hit 65mph indicated in a straight away pretty easy.
You do need a bigger head. you may need to go to slider vs rollers so you can get a slightly heavier weight than stock. heavier will take something off the line but give more at the top.
But yes you MUST get the bigger head with bigger valves to see the difference.
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I just had the 161cc head kit installed. Great acceleration, but when I hit 50ph, that's it. That's almost as fast as it went before it was kitted.
Anyone else have this problem when they kitted theirs out? Help! I don't wanna feel like I wasted 600 bones.
*****************************************************
Hello TommyRed:BuddyLand:
I have a Buddy 125 with 17,000 miles on it. I eventually had a 161CC BBK put on it. I got more power from start to top speed, but my top speed was a few MPH slower than the original 125cc engine.
I am increasingly convinced that to get higher top speed, one needs to change the gear ratio to take advantage of the greater horsepower. All the BuddyLand post claiming increase in top speed due to changes like, windshield, CDI, roller weights, ignition coil, etc...........I would like to ride their scooter and see for myself. I did all those things, except and I go no increase in top speed.
The Genuine Scooter Company told me over the phone, that the gear ration of the Buddy 150 is higher than the Buddy 125.
Thanks
Rick
Anyone else have this problem when they kitted theirs out? Help! I don't wanna feel like I wasted 600 bones.
*****************************************************
Hello TommyRed:BuddyLand:
I have a Buddy 125 with 17,000 miles on it. I eventually had a 161CC BBK put on it. I got more power from start to top speed, but my top speed was a few MPH slower than the original 125cc engine.
I am increasingly convinced that to get higher top speed, one needs to change the gear ratio to take advantage of the greater horsepower. All the BuddyLand post claiming increase in top speed due to changes like, windshield, CDI, roller weights, ignition coil, etc...........I would like to ride their scooter and see for myself. I did all those things, except and I go no increase in top speed.
The Genuine Scooter Company told me over the phone, that the gear ration of the Buddy 150 is higher than the Buddy 125.
Thanks
Rick
- tommyred
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Maybe I could find a 150 tranny on eBay? I was surprised when it couldn't hit the top speed that it did before. But I scream off the line, and fly up those hills. Thanks for the inputrick71454 wrote:I just had the 161cc head kit installed. Great acceleration, but when I hit 50ph, that's it. That's almost as fast as it went before it was kitted.
Anyone else have this problem when they kitted theirs out? Help! I don't wanna feel like I wasted 600 bones.
*****************************************************
Hello TommyRed:BuddyLand:
I have a Buddy 125 with 17,000 miles on it. I eventually had a 161CC BBK put on it. I got more power from start to top speed, but my top speed was a few MPH slower than the original 125cc engine.
I am increasingly convinced that to get higher top speed, one needs to change the gear ratio to take advantage of the greater horsepower. All the BuddyLand post claiming increase in top speed due to changes like, windshield, CDI, roller weights, ignition coil, etc...........I would like to ride their scooter and see for myself. I did all those things, except and I go no increase in top speed.
The Genuine Scooter Company told me over the phone, that the gear ration of the Buddy 150 is higher than the Buddy 125.
Thanks
Rick
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Maybe I could find a 150 tranny on eBay? I was surprised when it couldn't hit the top speed that it did before. But I scream off the line, and fly up those hills. Thanks for the input.
From TommyRed.....
------------------------------------------------------------
Hello TommyRed;BuddyLand;
I happen to be in the midst of having a shop replace swap out my original Buddy 125CC engine that had the161CC BBK upgrade to a Buddy 150CC engine complete with the 150CC CVT.
I did get a complete used Buddy 150CC engine with CVT attached to it.
I am waiting for a Buddy 150CC engine oil cooler to arrive from ScooterWorks to complete the swap, because a Buddy 125CC has no oil cooler.
I will share the result with BuddyLand when the job is completed.
Thanks
Rick
From TommyRed.....
------------------------------------------------------------
Hello TommyRed;BuddyLand;
I happen to be in the midst of having a shop replace swap out my original Buddy 125CC engine that had the161CC BBK upgrade to a Buddy 150CC engine complete with the 150CC CVT.
I did get a complete used Buddy 150CC engine with CVT attached to it.
I am waiting for a Buddy 150CC engine oil cooler to arrive from ScooterWorks to complete the swap, because a Buddy 125CC has no oil cooler.
I will share the result with BuddyLand when the job is completed.
Thanks
Rick
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Hello TommyRed;BuddyLand:
I meant to say I got a used Buddy 150CC engine with its CVT attached from EBAY for $399 about 10 days ago. Cost $60 to ship it from Utah to Portland Oregon.
I happened to be at the right place at the right time, otherwise getting a used engine and or CVT on EBAY or anywhere is not so often available.
Thanks
Rick
I meant to say I got a used Buddy 150CC engine with its CVT attached from EBAY for $399 about 10 days ago. Cost $60 to ship it from Utah to Portland Oregon.
I happened to be at the right place at the right time, otherwise getting a used engine and or CVT on EBAY or anywhere is not so often available.
Thanks
Rick
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Yeah, I've seen 125's once in a while, but no 150's. You did get lucky, cause I'm sure they get snatched up quick.rick71454 wrote:Hello TommyRed;BuddyLand:
I meant to say I got a used Buddy 150CC engine with its CVT attached from EBAY for $399 about 10 days ago. Cost $60 to ship it from Utah to Portland Oregon.
I happened to be at the right place at the right time, otherwise getting a used engine and or CVT on EBAY or anywhere is not so often available.
Thanks
Rick
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my kitted 125 smokes a 150 providing the riders are the same size. SMOKES. It smokes the 170i, too.
the key is having the big valve head and the slightly heavier weights. I have the NCY tranny too and that only lasted about 8k miles. I'm putting in the Dr. Pulley HiT clutch and variator soon. I didn't notice any speed with the racing tranny.
I also have the performance shocks though that just makes it handle better, doesn't add speed.
Since the kit came out in 2009, they have made a bolt on oil cooler. I haven't installed it. I run hot and have to keep my oil topped off. the old carb had burnt oil crusted it. It is now a trophy in my case But you can get it.
now I bet a 150 with the 171 kit could kick my butt but i haven't come across that.
I've lost 45 pounds since January and will lose another 40 by my birthday in March. That's the biggest performance mod to date. I have some 6% grades to climb in my commute and it used to be with the kit I could hold 50mph and tucked get 55mph. Today, I got 60mph sitting straight up! I can't wait to see what it does with a properly functioning varitor and clutch especially one as nice as the Dr. Pulley HiT. and I can't recommend their sliders enough for weights.
Ask anyone who's ridden with me. I've got one zippy buddy!
the key is having the big valve head and the slightly heavier weights. I have the NCY tranny too and that only lasted about 8k miles. I'm putting in the Dr. Pulley HiT clutch and variator soon. I didn't notice any speed with the racing tranny.
I also have the performance shocks though that just makes it handle better, doesn't add speed.
Since the kit came out in 2009, they have made a bolt on oil cooler. I haven't installed it. I run hot and have to keep my oil topped off. the old carb had burnt oil crusted it. It is now a trophy in my case But you can get it.
now I bet a 150 with the 171 kit could kick my butt but i haven't come across that.
I've lost 45 pounds since January and will lose another 40 by my birthday in March. That's the biggest performance mod to date. I have some 6% grades to climb in my commute and it used to be with the kit I could hold 50mph and tucked get 55mph. Today, I got 60mph sitting straight up! I can't wait to see what it does with a properly functioning varitor and clutch especially one as nice as the Dr. Pulley HiT. and I can't recommend their sliders enough for weights.
Ask anyone who's ridden with me. I've got one zippy buddy!
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- tommyred
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I think I'm really regretting the 161 upgrade. On the way to work this morning the engine started making this rapping noise at about 30mph. A really loud rapping noise.
Yes, the oil is full, and yes I check it quite often, like once a day. I also did an oil change at about 750 miles on the new kit. It's right around 800 now. Tops I've gone is 50, on the speedo, and I've pretty much babied it since I took it home. And last week when I realized it didn't really go beyond 50 on the speedo, I didn't try to push it.
I'm having it towed to the shop, and pray I don't have to pay for anything, especially since they don't warranty performance parts.
Yes, the oil is full, and yes I check it quite often, like once a day. I also did an oil change at about 750 miles on the new kit. It's right around 800 now. Tops I've gone is 50, on the speedo, and I've pretty much babied it since I took it home. And last week when I realized it didn't really go beyond 50 on the speedo, I didn't try to push it.
I'm having it towed to the shop, and pray I don't have to pay for anything, especially since they don't warranty performance parts.
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- tommyred
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They called me up and said they heard nothing. They drove it around and it never make the Lise. It'll probably happen again as soon as I get home. I used to be an auto mechanic, and I've heard that sound in a car. Loose tappets, push rods, along those likes.lovemysan wrote:any word from the shop?
Going to pick it up in the AM. Keeping my fingers crossed.
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- Rusty Shackleford
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^ Bingo. Here's my experience with that: The Dr Pulley sliders do increase the top ratio some, but the bike just doesn't make the horsepower needed to pull it. It helps on a long flat, but is weaker on hills at 50mph+. Roller weights may provide a lower top ratio, which could increase torque multiplication at high speeds... at least up to peak horsepower. My 2 cents is that all of these performance mods are anecdotal wild-ass-guesses unless you use a tachometer to see if the bike is hitting peak horsepower at top speed or whether it's over geared and falling short. The 161 kit will provide more torque at lower RPM's, but without increasing the ability of the bike to breathe, it won't do anything up top. I'll probably receive some heat for this, but engine/exhaust mods are rarely, if ever, worth the money. With scooters, your best bet is likely to find the best variator weights for your purpose and call it a day.rick71454 wrote:...I am increasingly convinced that to get higher top speed, one needs to change the gear ratio to take advantage of the greater horsepower..
C'mon, sko sko sko!
- tommyred
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I noticed a huge difference from 0-50, and going uphill it's a lot stronger. So I'm very happy with that. I'll talk to the guys at the shop, and a couple other people, and see what they say.Rusty Shackleford wrote:^ Bingo. Here's my experience with that: The Dr Pulley sliders do increase the top ratio some, but the bike just doesn't make the horsepower needed to pull it. It helps on a long flat, but is weaker on hills at 50mph+. Roller weights may provide a lower top ratio, which could increase torque multiplication at high speeds... at least up to peak horsepower. My 2 cents is that all of these performance mods are anecdotal wild-ass-guesses unless you use a tachometer to see if the bike is hitting peak horsepower at top speed or whether it's over geared and falling short. The 161 kit will provide more torque at lower RPM's, but without increasing the ability of the bike to breathe, it won't do anything up top. I'll probably receive some heat for this, but engine/exhaust mods are rarely, if ever, worth the money. With scooters, your best bet is likely to find the best variator weights for your purpose and call it a day.rick71454 wrote:...I am increasingly convinced that to get higher top speed, one needs to change the gear ratio to take advantage of the greater horsepower..
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Oh I'm sure. The thing is, once the variator reaches top ratio, the only way to speed up is for the RPM's to climb. The upper range is where added displacement alone isn't all there is to increased horsepower. But, you said you have an aftermarket exhaust so, yeah, shop it is. Best of luck!tommyred wrote:...I noticed a huge difference from 0-50, and going uphill it's a lot stronger. So I'm very happy with that. I'll talk to the guys at the shop, and a couple other people, and see what they say.
C'mon, sko sko sko!
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I pick it up, go about 3 miles & stop at the ATM for some cash, and when I go to start it, the ignition is stuck in the locked position. This happened about 3 months ago, and I got charged like $150 to replace it, and now the same thing. I called the shop and said if I could get it to them they'd look at it. I said I think someone should come to where I am, since I just paid for the same goddam thing. I'm wickwd friggin' pissed right now. Good thing I got AAA. I'm also pissed because they charged like $100 for the ignition, and when I looked online I could have bought it myself for $35!!!Rusty Shackleford wrote:Oh I'm sure. The thing is, once the variator reaches top ratio, the only way to speed up is for the RPM's to climb. The upper range is where added displacement alone isn't all there is to increased horsepower. But, you said you have an aftermarket exhaust so, yeah, shop it is. Best of luck!tommyred wrote:...I noticed a huge difference from 0-50, and going uphill it's a lot stronger. So I'm very happy with that. I'll talk to the guys at the shop, and a couple other people, and see what they say.
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I feel like the biggest A-Hole. I was using the wrong goddam key. I went back and apologized profusely. That's what happens when you have two Buddy's & no brains :-/tommyred wrote:I pick it up, go about 3 miles & stop at the ATM for some cash, and when I go to start it, the ignition is stuck in the locked position. This happened about 3 months ago, and I got charged like $150 to replace it, and now the same thing. I called the shop and said if I could get it to them they'd look at it. I said I think someone should come to where I am, since I just paid for the same goddam thing. I'm wickwd friggin' pissed right now. Good thing I got AAA. I'm also pissed because they charged like $100 for the ignition, and twhen I looked online I could have bought it myself for $35!!!Rusty Shackleford wrote:Oh I'm sure. The thing is, once the variator reaches top ratio, the only way to speed up is for the RPM's to climb. The upper range is where added displacement alone isn't all there is to increased horsepower. But, you said you have an aftermarket exhaust so, yeah, shop it is. Best of luck!tommyred wrote:...I noticed a huge difference from 0-50, and going uphill it's a lot stronger. So I'm very happy with that. I'll talk to the guys at the shop, and a couple other people, and see what they say.
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I feel like the biggest A-Hole. I was using the wrong goddam key. I went back and apologized profusely. That's what happens when you have two Buddy's & no brains :-/tommyred wrote:I pick it up, go about 3 miles & stop at the ATM for some cash, and when I go to start it, the ignition is stuck in the locked position. This happened about 3 months ago, and I got charged like $150 to replace it, and now the same thing. I called the shop and said if I could get it to them they'd look at it. I said I think someone should come to where I am, since I just paid for the same goddam thing. I'm wickwd friggin' pissed right now. Good thing I got AAA. I'm also pissed because they charged like $100 for the ignition, and twhen I looked online I could have bought it myself for $35!!!Rusty Shackleford wrote:Oh I'm sure. The thing is, once the variator reaches top ratio, the only way to speed up is for the RPM's to climb. The upper range is where added displacement alone isn't all there is to increased horsepower. But, you said you have an aftermarket exhaust so, yeah, shop it is. Best of luck!tommyred wrote:...I noticed a huge difference from 0-50, and going uphill it's a lot stronger. So I'm very happy with that. I'll talk to the guys at the shop, and a couple other people, and see what they say.
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- BuddyRaton
- Scooter Dork
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Your modding your motor and didn't write down what your jetting is?tommyred wrote: I forgot what he said the jets were. And I've already gone 450 miles on it, with no noticible increase
"Things fall apart - it's scientific" - David Byrne
www.teamscootertrash.com
'06 Cream Buddy 125, 11 Blur 220, 13 BMW C 650 GT, 68 Vespa SS180, 64 Vespa GS MK II, 65 Lambretta TV 175, 67 Vespa GT, 64 Vespa 150 VBB 64 Vespa GL
www.teamscootertrash.com
'06 Cream Buddy 125, 11 Blur 220, 13 BMW C 650 GT, 68 Vespa SS180, 64 Vespa GS MK II, 65 Lambretta TV 175, 67 Vespa GT, 64 Vespa 150 VBB 64 Vespa GL
- tommyred
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- Location: Santee, San Diego County, CA
I completely forgot to ask. I was more worried about the engine moise. Im just glad that went away. I will when they open on Tuesday Nd post it. Thanks for the reminderBuddyRaton wrote:Your modding your motor and didn't write down what your jetting is?tommyred wrote: I forgot what he said the jets were. And I've already gone 450 miles on it, with no noticible increase
The Reverend Wage
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Hello Rusty Shackleford;Tommyred:
I think we agree that most modifications have minimal, if any at all, increase in top speed. It is in the gear ratio and with increased horsepower...... that increases top speed of any significance.
I am glad Tommyred got at least more power, if not top speed. That again, is the same as what I got after I installed my 161 Kit.
Thanks
Rick71454
I think we agree that most modifications have minimal, if any at all, increase in top speed. It is in the gear ratio and with increased horsepower...... that increases top speed of any significance.
I am glad Tommyred got at least more power, if not top speed. That again, is the same as what I got after I installed my 161 Kit.
Thanks
Rick71454
- SYMbionic Duo
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- Location: Minneapolis
Kaos posted years ago, that for the 161, you need a bigger head. You can use either a stock 150 head or the NCY BV head.
High speed power is mostly governed by aerodynamics. Go for the windshield or tuck.
Also Intake is more important than exhaust or displacement for top speed. Our engines are operating at high revs, and with a single cylinder, so the intake valve is opened for a tiny fraction of a second. You want to flow as much mix in that time frame as possible. You can't simply make your intake bigger, if the valve seat is larger than the intake port/tube then you actually slow down the mix passing the valves. To make good power you need a cut head that has proper angles at the valve seat. Smoothing the bore also helps. A bigger carb, provides more mix at higher speed at the cost of making low speed or part throttle more difficult to jet properly.
Going faster requires exponentially more power to overcome wind resistance. Power is a function of torque and rpms. once you go past peak power, it will be very difficult to go faster if the power you are producing is barely enough to overcome drag. (In order to accelerate you need to use more power than to hold a speed) So if you have more torque through extra displacement, but your transmission is still set for less, then you will more than likely over-rev and you will hit peak power too early. You need to use heavier roller/slider weights. This will drop your rpms at a given speed, and give you more room to accelerate at high speed.
TL:DR Listed in order of ease and expense.
Mod your airbox (don't use a pod)
Use heavier rollers
get a stock or BV 150 head (58.5mm)
Get the head ported and polished
Get a 28-30mm carb and use a pod filter
-duo
High speed power is mostly governed by aerodynamics. Go for the windshield or tuck.
Also Intake is more important than exhaust or displacement for top speed. Our engines are operating at high revs, and with a single cylinder, so the intake valve is opened for a tiny fraction of a second. You want to flow as much mix in that time frame as possible. You can't simply make your intake bigger, if the valve seat is larger than the intake port/tube then you actually slow down the mix passing the valves. To make good power you need a cut head that has proper angles at the valve seat. Smoothing the bore also helps. A bigger carb, provides more mix at higher speed at the cost of making low speed or part throttle more difficult to jet properly.
Going faster requires exponentially more power to overcome wind resistance. Power is a function of torque and rpms. once you go past peak power, it will be very difficult to go faster if the power you are producing is barely enough to overcome drag. (In order to accelerate you need to use more power than to hold a speed) So if you have more torque through extra displacement, but your transmission is still set for less, then you will more than likely over-rev and you will hit peak power too early. You need to use heavier roller/slider weights. This will drop your rpms at a given speed, and give you more room to accelerate at high speed.
TL:DR Listed in order of ease and expense.
Mod your airbox (don't use a pod)
Use heavier rollers
get a stock or BV 150 head (58.5mm)
Get the head ported and polished
Get a 28-30mm carb and use a pod filter
-duo
Nothing is Foolproof to a sufficiently talented Fool.
- tommyred
- Member
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- Location: Santee, San Diego County, CA
I've heard good things about a new pulley & heavier rollers. Sitting here waiting to get installed is an NCY big valve head, NCY Oil cooler, & a decompression tube.SYMbionic Duo wrote: TL:DR Listed in order of ease and expense.
Mod your airbox (don't use a pod)
Use heavier rollers
get a stock or BV 150 head (58.5mm)
Get the head ported and polished
Get a 28-30mm carb and use a pod filter
-duo
I've heard good enough things about the stock carb, they say that just getting the right jets will help a lot, plus I don't have unlimited moola for everything
The Reverend Wage
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Hello BuddyLand:
Getting heavier roller weights does not result in higher top speed.
I know because I did test......
Depending on the weight, it does impact the rate or acceleration. Heavier weights get your CVT into higher gear quicker. I watch this happen testing with various weights of roller weights, while the CVT cover was off.
I had a Tachometer attached and the RPMs did not differ at top end due to different weight of roller weights.
I am not sure if there are roller weights so light, they don't get the CVT into highest gear.
Remember, that once the drive belt is at its maximum outer point on the driver pulley, the top speed is the same, regardless of how heavy your roller weights are, that got you there.
Rick71454
Getting heavier roller weights does not result in higher top speed.
I know because I did test......
Depending on the weight, it does impact the rate or acceleration. Heavier weights get your CVT into higher gear quicker. I watch this happen testing with various weights of roller weights, while the CVT cover was off.
I had a Tachometer attached and the RPMs did not differ at top end due to different weight of roller weights.
I am not sure if there are roller weights so light, they don't get the CVT into highest gear.
Remember, that once the drive belt is at its maximum outer point on the driver pulley, the top speed is the same, regardless of how heavy your roller weights are, that got you there.
Rick71454
- SYMbionic Duo
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Fixed that for you.rick71454 wrote:Hello BuddyLand:
Getting heavier roller weights does not result in higher top speed.
I know because I did test......
Depending on the weight, it does impact the rate or acceleration. Heavier weights get your CVT into higher gear quicker. I watch this happen testing with various weights of roller weights, while the CVT cover was off.
I had a Tachometer attached and the RPMs did not differ at top end due to different weight of roller weights.
I am not sure if there are roller weights so light, they don't get the CVT into highest gear.
Remember, that once the drive belt is at its maximum outer point on the driver pulley, the gear ratio is the same, regardless of how heavy your roller weights are, that got you there.
Rick71454
But you are right. Once the transmission is at Lowest Ratio (Engine to Wheel) there is no difference in RPMs.
Heavier weights are the equivalent of short or early shifting, and lighter ones are like late shifting.
Higher Top speed requires you to flow more mix or to get a lower final ratio. Since the former requires major surgery and lots of cramming square pegs into round holes (custom final gears), go for the bigger head.
Assuming that the 125 has the same final drive gears as the 150/170. If they are different, then getting the 150 gears would be the way to go.
-duo
Nothing is Foolproof to a sufficiently talented Fool.
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Hello BuddyLand
SYMbionic Duo is correct in his comments above.......I agree.
As for gear ratios.........
That is confirmed by the Parts Manager at Genuine to me. He said the Buddy 170i/150 has a gear ratio different than the Buddy 125, which allows the Buddy 170i/150 to take advantage of the extra horsepower from higher cc engines. Result......higher top end speed.
I recommend that if you get a 161CC BBK, also get parts to be the same as the Buddy 170i or 150 gear ratio. Not CDIs, Ignition Coils, Intakes, larger carbs, exhaust.
Thanks
Rick71454
SYMbionic Duo is correct in his comments above.......I agree.
As for gear ratios.........
That is confirmed by the Parts Manager at Genuine to me. He said the Buddy 170i/150 has a gear ratio different than the Buddy 125, which allows the Buddy 170i/150 to take advantage of the extra horsepower from higher cc engines. Result......higher top end speed.
I recommend that if you get a 161CC BBK, also get parts to be the same as the Buddy 170i or 150 gear ratio. Not CDIs, Ignition Coils, Intakes, larger carbs, exhaust.
Thanks
Rick71454
- Christophers
- Member
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Did he specify what the differences are? I assume that by "different gear ratios", the Parts Manager was referring primarily to different weight rollers. Or are there additional changes.rick71454 wrote:Hello BuddyLand
SYMbionic Duo is correct in his comments above.......I agree.
As for gear ratios.........
That is confirmed by the Parts Manager at Genuine to me. He said the Buddy 170i/150 has a gear ratio different than the Buddy 125, which allows the Buddy 170i/150 to take advantage of the extra horsepower from higher cc engines. Result......higher top end speed.
It's kind of difficult to conform a 125 transmission to 150 specs, not knowing what the specific differences are.
- SYMbionic Duo
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Did he specify what the differences are? I assume that by "different gear ratios", the Parts Manager was referring primarily to different weight rollers. Or are there additional changes.
----------Christophers
----------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Christophers:
Not referring to roller weights, but to the internal gears of the transmission.
Think of it like the chain being on the smallest sprocket on a bicycle rear wheel.
The bike goes faster per pedal revolution right? The equivalent would be that the Buddy 170/105 does have a smaller sprocket than a 125. I learned this from the Genuine Company Parts Manager.
Rick71454
----------Christophers
----------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Christophers:
Not referring to roller weights, but to the internal gears of the transmission.
Think of it like the chain being on the smallest sprocket on a bicycle rear wheel.
The bike goes faster per pedal revolution right? The equivalent would be that the Buddy 170/105 does have a smaller sprocket than a 125. I learned this from the Genuine Company Parts Manager.
Rick71454
- Christophers
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- Christophers
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- Christophers
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- SYMbionic Duo
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LOL Bit anxious are we?
Finding, There is a difference.
Final drive:
125 15->42->13->42 or 9.05 (taken from 2006 buddy 125)
150 16->40->13->43 or 8.27 (taken from 2009 Black Jack)
I can post photos of my gears if you'd like.
I'd also like to know what the Psycho is rocking.
-duo
Finding, There is a difference.
Final drive:
125 15->42->13->42 or 9.05 (taken from 2006 buddy 125)
150 16->40->13->43 or 8.27 (taken from 2009 Black Jack)
I can post photos of my gears if you'd like.
I'd also like to know what the Psycho is rocking.
-duo
Nothing is Foolproof to a sufficiently talented Fool.
- SYMbionic Duo
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Apparently i didn't have to take my bike apart to find this info.
Looking at the service manuals for the 125 and 170, the secondary drive ratios are listed under the model specs page.
You can find the 170i service manual on Scooter Lounge Online.
http://www.scooterloungeonline.com/manuals
-duo
Looking at the service manuals for the 125 and 170, the secondary drive ratios are listed under the model specs page.
You can find the 170i service manual on Scooter Lounge Online.
http://www.scooterloungeonline.com/manuals
-duo
Nothing is Foolproof to a sufficiently talented Fool.
- Christophers
- Member
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LOL - I guess so (a bit anxious).SYMbionic Duo wrote:LOL Bit anxious are we?
Finding, There is a difference.
Final drive:
125 15->42->13->42 or 9.05 (taken from 2006 buddy 125)
150 16->40->13->43 or 8.27 (taken from 2009 Black Jack)
I can post photos of my gears if you'd like.
I'd also like to know what the Psycho is rocking.
-duo
Please do post some photos. In fact, if you post a pictorial tutorial I might be able to take a look at the gears on the Psycho. It would be great to have this information all posted together here.