[NSR] Winter-worthy motorcycle

charlie55 · Post by **charlie55** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:03 pm

You guys might want to give this a read.....

http://cleantechnica.com/2013/08/19/pau ... inancials/

Pretty harsh evaluation.....

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:52 pm

Keep in mind that the site's editorial mandate is to advocate solar and wind, and vehicles powered by them, so any vehicle that isn't at least partially electric is The Wrong Answer and deserves to fail.

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:03 pm

Well, ohiotj, tht takes the Ford Escape off my want one list!!

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:06 pm

Well, ohiotj, that takes the Ford Escape off my list of 'have to have ' cars/

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:14 pm

Wolfhound wrote:Syd, found them and more. Just search Smart Car Wrecks and you will see
a great many pix.

I found lots of them too. Too bad most of the wrecks are not Smart Cars, but other mini and micro cars in europe. You really gotta suspect the smartcarwreck.com site when it posts something like this:

Accident at 5 miles per hour completely wrecks smart car.

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:15 pm

Well Charlie 55, while I might have to accept his figures the condicending
and snotty attitude of the author just strengthens my feelings that he is
also beating a dead horse. I doubt that electric and solar powered vehicles are going to be the answer either.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:17 pm

I really don't know why the falsly reported safety problems of the Smart Car bother me so much, but they just get under my skin. I looked at one, and would have been interested: good in-city transportation for two, blah,blah,blah. But it only got 40mpg. ? I had a car that got 40mpg 30 years ago. sheesh.

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:18 pm

Syd, I have a little trouble buying that one myself!!

walke2jd · Post by **walke2jd** » Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:27 pm

The Smartcar and other "mini" type cars are pretty terrible. High priced and average fuel economy.

I drive a 2002 Saturn SL that got 40 mpg stock and now gets around 50 with a few modifications. And it is a full sized car. Also, MSRP was right around $10k when sold new. This, in my mind, makes me think that the Elio's claims could easily be possible.

Post by **jrsjr** » Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:45 pm

TVB wrote:Another factor is that under current laws in most states, you'd need a motorcycle endorsement to drive this, and a lot of them would require wearing a helmet.

...which actually might not be a bad thing.

Tazio · Post by **Tazio** » Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:44 pm

A 2wd Ural makes a great winter motorcycle. I love my Gear-Up and if I had to choose between my Buddy and the Ural it would be bye bye Buddy.

Also this is the last year you can get the WW2 style, carbs and camo paint. Next year it's FI, smog and computer junk, though I think they will still be all steel or Russian Iron as we call them.

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:36 pm

I have a scooter /sidecar and have always wanted a Ural. However, neuropathy in my calves and feet makes shifting problematic. So one
of these days I will get a Yamaha Majesty 400 and put my Cozy side car
on it and keep up, hopefully, with the big boys. ( or maby a Piaggio 350)

Tazio · Post by **Tazio** » Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:45 pm

Wolfhound,

You can get hand shifters and selectors for reverse and 2wd. I'm a 76 year old 130 pound weakling with torn rotator cuffs and carpel tunnel in both hands and have no problems with the operation though it has been described as a primitive piece of Russian gym equipment.

They are tough as nails and easier to work on than a Buddy.

Here's a link to an older factory you-tube video showing the go anywhere capabilities. Machine guns and anti-tank weapons are not available from the factory for the civilian models though.

http://uralsidecars.com/ural-2wd-motorc ... r-show-tv/

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:59 am

Tazio, it is a big leap from an Elio to a Ural. (OK, back on track

)
I have got you by a year, 6'1" 185 lbs, but you make a good point concerning hand shifters. When the day comes I might look into that approach. We rarely see much snow here in NGA., and all my riding is done on county roads. Do go to Bryson City, NC once a year to ride. Down here the Ural has a bad name for problems but I understand that quality has improved greatly in the past 5 years. I am not much of a mechanic but I just like the looks of the Ural, also of the Elio(back on track again.

)

michelle_7728 · Post by **michelle_7728** » Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:42 am

Robbie wrote:Kinda cool.....they have purchassed the G.M. assembly plant that was producing the Hummer H3......kind of ironic thinking fuel mileage extremes.
Evidently, funding is adequete....we'll see.......

Rob

And ironically, if these articles (and the movie "Who killed the Electric Car?") are to be believed, GM quit making EV-1's (in fact forced leasee's to relinquish, then destroyed existing EV-1's), which got 140 miles per charge, in favor of making the Hummer.

What was the EV-1?
Hummer mentioned here

Robbie · Post by **Robbie** » Sat Aug 31, 2013 11:25 am

The EV-1 (also known as Impact) was a test mule, no different than the Chrysler Turbine car was in the 60's
And, just like Chrysler, the units were only available for lease in specific markets.
Those that leased the units were well aware that there was no purchass option and the lease cost was subsidized by the corporation.
The operators were to and did provide operation information during the lease.
And, after the experiment ended, just like Chrysler did, the majority of the units were destroyed.....this so that there would be no need to provide parts support/ future potental recalls, etcetera.

A large part of the EV-1's tech has been utilized on the current (ha!) Volt.

G.M. did not 'Kill' the electric car.

Rob

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:28 am

Total electrical vehicles might be ok for short city runs but seem to me to be impractical otherwise. The hybreds are the successful ones, ie: Toyota Prius and others.
Tazio, checked into the hand shifter for the Ural and there is a quite reasonable unit available. I will keep that in mind. Thanks.

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:28 am

Total electrical vehicles might be ok for short city runs but seem to me to be impractical otherwise. The hybreds are the successful ones, ie: Toyota Prius and others.
Tazio, checked into the hand shifter for the Ural and there is a quite reasonable unit available. I will keep that in mind. Thanks.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:22 pm

charlie55 wrote:You guys might want to give this a read.....

http://cleantechnica.com/2013/08/19/pau ... inancials/

Pretty harsh evaluation.....

Harsh, but a sound business study. Again, while this vehicle doesn't do it for me, I understand the potential market desire for such a ride.

Unfortunately, common business sense would tell you that this is an infeasible business model. While even a base version of the vehicle at a $7K price tag would be highly suspect, options and amenities, such an AC, just aren't going to happen.

Rob

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:37 pm

Dont look for the Elio to ever hit the market. Sad.

ScootLemont · Post by **ScootLemont** » Sun Sep 01, 2013 8:53 pm

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 5:15 am

For a whim I "liked" them on facebook... but a bunch of disturbing trends arose:

-They keep touring like some rock band, but it seems they have only ONE car to show off. And, those who have actually sat in it (a very limited amount of people are actually allowed in it, so it seems) say that the ergonomics are pretty difficult at best.

-The pictures of their Louisiana plant keep showing machinery meant to make GM trucks, and not Elio cars. They keep posting these pictures of the plant proudly saying they are on their way, but the machinery by this point has been removed. Kind of gives a false impression, don't you think?

-The few times I've tried to comment on healthy speculation, and you're met with more attacks than someone who uses a Microsoft Surface at a Starbucks! Petty bickering, personal attacks and creepy IM's all result when you *dare* question the validity of the company... all from "fans" who have never even drove the thing!

They have yet to do the "proper" car promotion thing: Get Top Gear (US or UK) To mock/review it (which is always good press, no matter how horrible they make it out to be). They haven't got one in the hands of Jay Leno, which to many "car guys" is a big bit of publicity, and they have yet to actually produce models that can actually be driven. I have yet to see anyone actually DRIVE this thing that isn't an employee.

Frankly, it reeks of vaporware. I feel sorry for those people who are near-religious about this and have forked over cash

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:48 am

I agree. Neotrotsky has a good take on the situation.

michelle_7728 · Post by **michelle_7728** » Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:36 am

I don't know...I would rather be optomistic about this. I really, really, REALLY want a viable alternative to scooting to work in inclement weather when my carpool buddy is not available. ...and alternative that will allow me to STILL use the carpool lane.

I really like riding to work, but let's face it, 45 minutes on the road with masses of humanity on the freeway is more risk than I want to take on on a regular basis. 45 minutes is when I can take the carpool lane. If I CAN'T take the carpool lane, we're talking a 1 1/2 to 2 hour one-way commute.

I went with a friend of mine and saw/sat in one Saturday. I really liked it. I was able to adjust the seat up (I'm 5'4") and it was a good fit. Right before me was a co-worker of mine and his wife that are interested in one. He's 6'5", and he was able to fit in there with room to spare....and she was able to sit behind him without feeling like a pretzel (she's 5'3", I think).

With the back seat folded down there's a good bit of space available (can you say "Costco run"?

)

Three full size, wide tires and rims, easy to get at the back tire if needed, even a cupholder spot for the rear passenger. What more could you ask?

They plan to have 3 dealers in the Washington state area, one at least, in Seattle.

I went ahead and added myself to their "refundable" deposit list...so if it DOES come out, I'll be on the list right behind the people who put a non-refundable deposit down. I didn't put enough down to where I'd be devastated if I lost my money, but hey, it's made in America and will be supporting American workers, and it would get good gas mileage, and can be driven in comfort in rain, cold or heat.

I agree the marketing has been a bit unorthodox, but this is a start up...America was BUILT on start-ups. I'm all for giving these guys a chance. If they succeed, it will be awesome!

(The non-refundable bit is because I'm still working on my better half on this one....I think I have him mostly swayed...

)

CapnK · Post by **CapnK** » Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:04 am

I'm definitely in with the "I'd like to see this in production" club, if they can do all they claim, or at least get very near it.

What I would hate to see them do is to pull a Microsoft and rush an untested "beta" version out of the factory which then falls short of their stated goals of reliability, economy, and low cost...

MS, with their near-monopolistic market penetration, can afford to foist onto the public their technologically inferior, security-issue laden, improperly tested software which comes nowhere near the feature set they used to initially sell it; see WinME, Vista, and to a degree Win8, in their OS line. They have the resources to deal with the backlash, to absorb the initial blow of bad publicity until they can Service Pack "improvements" (AKA: what *should have been* in the RTM) out to the public.

For Elio to do similar with the first iteration of this vehicle would mark them for death, despite the promise of the product they appear to be honestly attempting to produce, and that would be a real shame.

michelle_7728 · Post by **michelle_7728** » Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:25 am

walke2jd · Post by **walke2jd** » Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:22 pm

Here is another concept that looks interesting. Its $24k instead of $7k, but it looks pretty awesome.

http://litmotors.com/c1/

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:22 pm

The use of gyros to keep the thing upright is an interesting idea (if it works as advertised), but the cost of that tech makes it a difficult sell.

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:09 pm

Wiki the company, LIT Motors. Claim it is neither motorcycle or automobile.
It is obviously a motorcycle under all sate requirements. Claims 100 mph, range 200 mi, charge time 4-6 hours. Co. started in 2010, claims production starts in 2014,will accept pre orders --$7000.00 min pre pmt.
Sorry, sounds like ANOTHER Elio project.

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:01 pm

Wolfhound wrote:Wiki the company, LIT Motors. Claim it is neither motorcycle or automobile.

I don't know how realistic it is, but judging the company based on what somebody wrote about it on Wikipedia is a bit unfair. I looked around on their web site, and they avoid calling it anything other than a "vehicle", but they say it requires a motorcycle license, and I didn't see any claim that it wasn't one.

lovemysan · Post by **lovemysan** » Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:36 pm

walke2jd wrote:The Smartcar and other "mini" type cars are pretty terrible. High priced and average fuel economy.

I drive a 2002 Saturn SL that got 40 mpg stock and now gets around 50 with a few modifications. And it is a full sized car. Also, MSRP was right around $10k when sold new. This, in my mind, makes me think that the Elio's claims could easily be possible.

I'd disagree with full size car. Too low to the ground for me. 40mpg lightly loaded is totally plausible but use the Ac and mileage takes a nasty hit. Now they do make owning a tdi vw look expensive. My parents get 29 mpg around town.

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:18 pm

lovemysan wrote:
walke2jd wrote:The Smartcar and other "mini" type cars are pretty terrible. High priced and average fuel economy.

I drive a 2002 Saturn SL that got 40 mpg stock and now gets around 50 with a few modifications. And it is a full sized car. Also, MSRP was right around $10k when sold new. This, in my mind, makes me think that the Elio's claims could easily be possible.
I'd disagree with full size car. Too low to the ground for me. 40mpg lightly loaded is totally plausible but use the Ac and mileage takes a nasty hit. Now they do make owning a tdi vw look expensive. My parents get 29 mpg around town.

50mpg on a Saturn that, from the EPA, is barely listed above 30mpg? I smell BS. Besides, the average Saturn has as much plastic as a Smart car (They were pretty heavy in the polymer department). Don't get me wrong, Saturns are good cars. BUT, people love to ignore physics and the decidedly "average" Crash tests of cars like Saturn, Cavaliers, Neons and even Nissans in order to bash small cars because they're not miracle machines.

I personally am a fan of the Smart, Fiat 500 and the like. Smaller cars=less material. Using less material and a smaller footprint in urban environments is always a good thing. No... it won't out run a mustang. Yes, it would be obliterated if an 18-wheeler hit it, but so would any family sedan.

If you want a dose of reality, check out this crash test vid of a "sturdy" 1950's large American sedan made of "Real" steel and a modern equivalent. Larger isn't better.

http://youtu.be/joMK1WZjP7g

Long story short: Facts don't matter to those who choose to ignore them. It's small, and some hate small cars. Perhaps it makes them feel less masculine. Perhaps they feel that unless it's a massive Cadillac they should get 100mpg and a free kitten. Either way, the fact is that the Smart and other small cars do A LOT for passenger safety with very little material to work with.

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:42 pm

CapnK wrote:What I would hate to see them do is to pull a Microsoft and rush an untested "beta" version out of the factory which then falls short of their stated goals of reliability, economy, and low cost...

MS, with their near-monopolistic market penetration, can afford to foist onto the public their technologically inferior, security-issue laden, improperly tested software which comes nowhere near the feature set they used to initially sell it; see WinME, Vista, and to a degree Win8, in their OS line. They have the resources to deal with the backlash, to absorb the initial blow of bad publicity until they can Service Pack "improvements" (AKA: what *should have been* in the RTM) out to the public.

don't know why I continue to let this stuff bug me, but...

iFanBoi much?

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:49 pm

TVB, where on their web site did it say the LIT required a MC license? I dont
doubt that it will be considered a motorcycle just could not find where they mentioned it. I must have missed it, not doubting your word but if I missed
more info on it I would like to locate it.

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:50 pm

TVB, where on their web site did it say the LIT required a MC license? I dont
doubt that it will be considered a motorcycle just could not find where they mentioned it. I must have missed it, not doubting your word but if I missed
more info on it I would like to locate it.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:47 pm

Wolfhound wrote:I have a scooter /sidecar and have always wanted a Ural. However, neuropathy in my calves and feet makes shifting problematic.

Well, I'd say you need to talk with Jim Petitti at Raceway Services. He developed several different models of a hand shifter for the Ural. This came out of his own polio and the need to ride motorcycles with hand controls. And nobody knows Urals better than Jim.

http://www.racewayservicespaa.com/index.html

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:13 am

Jim Petitti is the founder and now sales manager. Frank Sossi and Ken Hall are the new owners.They have the hand shifter kit for #365.00, thanks for
the tip. I am thinking that A Ural may be in my future when I am 80, 3 years
from now. Again, thanks Dooglas

lovemysan · Post by **lovemysan** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:47 am

neotrotsky wrote:
lovemysan wrote:
walke2jd wrote:The Smartcar and other "mini" type cars are pretty terrible. High priced and average fuel economy.

I drive a 2002 Saturn SL that got 40 mpg stock and now gets around 50 with a few modifications. And it is a full sized car. Also, MSRP was right around $10k when sold new. This, in my mind, makes me think that the Elio's claims could easily be possible.
I'd disagree with full size car. Too low to the ground for me. 40mpg lightly loaded is totally plausible but use the Ac and mileage takes a nasty hit. Now they do make owning a tdi vw look expensive. My parents get 29 mpg around town.
50mpg on a Saturn that, from the EPA, is barely listed above 30mpg? I smell BS. Besides, the average Saturn has as much plastic as a Smart car (They were pretty heavy in the polymer department). Don't get me wrong, Saturns are good cars. BUT, people love to ignore physics and the decidedly "average" Crash tests of cars like Saturn, Cavaliers, Neons and even Nissans in order to bash small cars because they're not miracle machines.

I personally am a fan of the Smart, Fiat 500 and the like. Smaller cars=less material. Using less material and a smaller footprint in urban environments is always a good thing. No... it won't out run a mustang. Yes, it would be obliterated if an 18-wheeler hit it, but so would any family sedan.

If you want a dose of reality, check out this crash test vid of a "sturdy" 1950's large American sedan made of "Real" steel and a modern equivalent. Larger isn't better.

http://youtu.be/joMK1WZjP7g

Long story short: Facts don't matter to those who choose to ignore them. It's small, and some hate small cars. Perhaps it makes them feel less masculine. Perhaps they feel that unless it's a massive Cadillac they should get 100mpg and a free kitten. Either way, the fact is that the Smart and other small cars do A LOT for passenger safety with very little material to work with.

Actually it's not bs. I've done over 7000 vacation miles(loaded) at 50mpg+. My main complaint with the sl is the ergonomics and the anemic 8v under the hood. A stock one driven normally will get 40-42 mpg on the highway. Polymer is what the panels are made not the structure. I really feel Saturn was a great attempt at making cars. The big letdown was the head cracking and oil burning. Msrp for my old sl sport was $9995 it was a great car for the money.

Post by **Lostmycage** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:44 am

If they can produce the advertised product at the advertised price, my household would purchase at the absolute minimum 1 and most likely 2. I think this is an awesome product with HUGE potential.

I have no idea how that lines up with real world numbers.

neotrotsky · Post by **neotrotsky** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:29 am

lovemysan wrote:
neotrotsky wrote:
lovemysan wrote: I'd disagree with full size car. Too low to the ground for me. 40mpg lightly loaded is totally plausible but use the Ac and mileage takes a nasty hit. Now they do make owning a tdi vw look expensive. My parents get 29 mpg around town.
50mpg on a Saturn that, from the EPA, is barely listed above 30mpg? I smell BS. Besides, the average Saturn has as much plastic as a Smart car (They were pretty heavy in the polymer department). Don't get me wrong, Saturns are good cars. BUT, people love to ignore physics and the decidedly "average" Crash tests of cars like Saturn, Cavaliers, Neons and even Nissans in order to bash small cars because they're not miracle machines.

I personally am a fan of the Smart, Fiat 500 and the like. Smaller cars=less material. Using less material and a smaller footprint in urban environments is always a good thing. No... it won't out run a mustang. Yes, it would be obliterated if an 18-wheeler hit it, but so would any family sedan.

If you want a dose of reality, check out this crash test vid of a "sturdy" 1950's large American sedan made of "Real" steel and a modern equivalent. Larger isn't better.

http://youtu.be/joMK1WZjP7g

Long story short: Facts don't matter to those who choose to ignore them. It's small, and some hate small cars. Perhaps it makes them feel less masculine. Perhaps they feel that unless it's a massive Cadillac they should get 100mpg and a free kitten. Either way, the fact is that the Smart and other small cars do A LOT for passenger safety with very little material to work with.
Actually it's not bs. I've done over 7000 vacation miles(loaded) at 50mpg+. My main complaint with the sl is the ergonomics and the anemic 8v under the hood. A stock one driven normally will get 40-42 mpg on the highway. Polymer is what the panels are made not the structure. I really feel Saturn was a great attempt at making cars. The big letdown was the head cracking and oil burning. Msrp for my old sl sport was $9995 it was a great car for the money.

Without proof... not buying it for a minute. My geo metro 3 cylinder with a 5 speed and single passenger got at best 52mpg. The math just isn't in favor of your story

lovemysan · Post by **lovemysan** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:53 am

http://www.gassavers.org/garage/viewgaslog/127

http://www.missourilife.com/life/meet-the-hypermilers/
That's me the second guy.

I drove the car another year after I quit logging mileage on gassavers, i moved over to ecomodders. My best tank was 62.*. There was a lot more in the car. I could have hit 70mpg with more effort and tweaking the aero mods. I spent about $100 modding the car not including the scan gauge. The car still runs the hai and grill block to this day. My parents average mid 40s on the highway. Their technique is terrible .

walke2jd · Post by **walke2jd** » Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:22 pm

neotrotsky wrote:50mpg on a Saturn that, from the EPA, is barely listed above 30mpg? I smell BS. Besides, the average Saturn has as much plastic as a Smart car (They were pretty heavy in the polymer department). Don't get me wrong, Saturns are good cars. BUT, people love to ignore physics and the decidedly "average" Crash tests of cars like Saturn, Cavaliers, Neons and even Nissans in order to bash small cars because they're not miracle machines.

I personally am a fan of the Smart, Fiat 500 and the like. Smaller cars=less material. Using less material and a smaller footprint in urban environments is always a good thing. No... it won't out run a mustang. Yes, it would be obliterated if an 18-wheeler hit it, but so would any family sedan.

If you want a dose of reality, check out this crash test vid of a "sturdy" 1950's large American sedan made of "Real" steel and a modern equivalent. Larger isn't better.

http://youtu.be/joMK1WZjP7g

Long story short: Facts don't matter to those who choose to ignore them. It's small, and some hate small cars. Perhaps it makes them feel less masculine. Perhaps they feel that unless it's a massive Cadillac they should get 100mpg and a free kitten. Either way, the fact is that the Smart and other small cars do A LOT for passenger safety with very little material to work with.

I think you misunderstand my issues with the "small cars". I would love to own a Scion iQ, Fiat 500, or one of the other small cars. But I think they fall really short where it counts. They aren't priced terribly, but to drive something that small, the payoff needs to be stellar MPG, which they just don't deliver.

My point is, that saturn was churning out the "Smart Car" of the 90's, and they did a better job. It got similar MPG's stock, cost about the same (given inflation), but the difference is, they made it a "full" sized car. I wish someone would have taken that platform and updated it.

This Elio, even if it turns out to be vaporware, is what I expect from the Smart Car and the Fiat 500. If it is going to be tiny, it needs to have incredible fuel economy. Until something like this actually comes out, I'll stick with my Buddy

michelle_7728 · Post by **michelle_7728** » Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:26 am

charlie55 wrote:You guys might want to give this a read.....

http://cleantechnica.com/2013/08/19/pau ... inancials/

Pretty harsh evaluation.....

I just saw/read this.

I am not a numbers cruncher, nor do I know what it takes to get something like this off the ground, but I do know that for about the last decade the popular media here in America is no longer non-biased. They tend to strike down and flame anything that even faintly smells of thinking other than what ever is popular at the time.

So that being said, perhaps I am being very naive, but I'm choosing to believe that is the case here, and I'm keeping my hopes up that this little company can get it's feet under it and make a success story happen.

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:57 pm

I have no problem with the numbers quoted nor with the fact that Elio can not
operate sucessfully with those figures. I DO have a problem with the SA attitude of the author of the report whose name I did not catch.At least I did
not see it as a byline for the article. I would love to see the Elio succeed but
faced with the fact that it is not an original basic concept and that other vehicles simular to it have not burned down the doors of the outo/motorcycle
barn I would have to say that the chances of it becoming a reality are slim to
none. That said, I will gladly eat my barbequed crow if it does.

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:09 am

Check out wheego.net. Has been making electric cars since 2010. Priced in
the $30,000.00 range, claims 60 mph, 100 miles on a charge. It is Atlanta based, the bodies are made in China and the rest is American made. Not
my cup of tea but they seem to have found a market place.

michelle_7728 · Post by **michelle_7728** » Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:03 am

Wolfhound wrote:I have no problem with the numbers quoted nor with the fact that Elio can not
operate sucessfully with those figures. I DO have a problem with the SA attitude of the author of the report whose name I did not catch.At least I did
not see it as a byline for the article. I would love to see the Elio succeed but
faced with the fact that it is not an original basic concept and that other vehicles simular to it have not burned down the doors of the outo/motorcycle
barn I would have to say that the chances of it becoming a reality are slim to
none. That said, I will gladly eat my barbequed crow if it does.

LOL. I hear you. I hope you are wrong too, but only time will tell....

Wolfhound · Post by **Wolfhound** » Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:43 pm

Polaris is working on a new side by side seating trike. It is still in the design stage and has an open cockpit. Will be powered by a GM 2.4 L Echotec engine and a manual transmission. Info source: www.autorevolution.com
Now with a little change in design this could be an enclosed cockpit and with Polaris'money behind it could do what the Elio can't do. No info on performance statistics. If it will ever go into production remains to be seen.
The Can Am spyder would require a lot of design changes to compete in the
same market and as is only gets 30-35 mpg. Of course all of these concepts may just be beating a dead horse and earning a

TVB · Post by **TVB** » Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:18 pm

I just saw a new item that there are now exemptions for vehicles like the Elio (which are being termed "autocycles") to helmet requirements in all but 5 states: Missouri, Mississippi, North Carolina, West Virginia, and Nebraska. They still require a motorcycle endorsement, however.

walke2jd · Post by **walke2jd** » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:25 pm

TVB wrote:I just saw a new item that there are now exemptions for vehicles like the Elio (which are being termed "autocycles") to helmet requirements in all but 5 states: Missouri, Mississippi, North Carolina, West Virginia, and Nebraska. They still require a motorcycle endorsement, however.

I think that is a pretty big deal for Elio and others like it. I would think the next big hurdle is dropping the motorcycle endorsement requirement. I think I saw them state on Elio's website that you can use the Elio to take the test (making it seem like it would be a piece of cake), but in VA, I am not sure I could pass the MC test in an Elio. The test seems way more condusive to a Buddy 125 than a huge 3 wheeled car.

CapnK · Post by **CapnK** » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:07 pm

Syd wrote:
CapnK wrote:What I would hate to see them do is to pull a Microsoft and rush an untested "beta" version out of the factory which then falls short of their stated goals of reliability, economy, and low cost...

MS, with their near-monopolistic market penetration, can afford to foist onto the public their technologically inferior, security-issue laden, improperly tested software which comes nowhere near the feature set they used to initially sell it; see WinME, Vista, and to a degree Win8, in their OS line. They have the resources to deal with the backlash, to absorb the initial blow of bad publicity until they can Service Pack "improvements" (AKA: what *should have been* in the RTM) out to the public.
don't know why I continue to let this stuff bug me, but...

iFanBoi much?

AAMOF, "i" don't own an Apple/Mac *anything*, Syd, although I've fixed plenty of 'em. "i" have been working in IT for over 20 years, and I'll work on/with Mac, Win, or *nix - using whatever it takes to get the job done best - *that* is what I am a fan of.

I also happened to have owned a Saturn SW2 for a number of years. It was not hard at all to get 35-40+ on the highway with that "old" technology.

Todd & walke2jd - Elio posted about the "5 states to go" for helmet exemption on their FB page today. Here's the linked article:

http://www.technologytell.com/in-car-te ... gislation/