Best 250cc Touring Scooter?

Discussion of Genuine Scooters and Anything Scooter Related

Moderator: Modern Buddy Staff

Post Reply
skipper20
Member
Posts: 836
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:19 am
Location: Des Moines, WA

Best 250cc Touring Scooter?

Post by skipper20 »

Based on your actual experience, what 250cc scooter would be the best for long distance touring? By long distance touring, I'm putting emphasis on rider comfort, fuel tank size and a comfortable 65 mph cruising speed. A fuel injected engine would also be nice but not mandatory. And, I'm going to stick with 250cc, nothing bigger, nothing smaller. Thanks!

Bill in Seattle
'12 170i Italia
'11 220i Blur
lovemysan
Member
Posts: 660
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:55 am
Location: kansas city mo

Post by lovemysan »

Morpheus?
User avatar
charlie55
Member
Posts: 1930
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:47 pm
Location: New Jersey

Post by charlie55 »

lovemysan wrote:Morpheus?
No disrespect to the Morphous - it's a perfectly-able long distance runner and pretty sharp-looking to boot. However, there are two factors that would need to be addressed:

- The stock windscreen is pitifully small and does nothing to protect the rider or combat the "mesmerizing" effects of constant wind buffeting and noise.

- The handlebar/seat geometry tends to put folks into a feet-forward, lean-forward positon, leading to a sore lower back after a while.

Both of these issues can be addressed with aftermarket products, so they're not show-stoppers.

I can't really recommend the Helix, not because I think it's unsuitable. but rather due to the fact that I don't do any long-distance riding on it. So I can't offer a qualified opinion. Mechanically, it'd do the job with no sweat, but I can't comment on comfort. One thing's for sure: you can pretty much throw a dart at a map, have a breakdown there, and still be able to get parts and service. I sometimes think that Honda produced enough replacement parts to build 10 Helices for each one they actually sold.

I do like the new Honda Forza. While it's billed as 300cc, it's actually 279cc, which really isn't all that much more than a 250.
Image
User avatar
Tazio
Member
Posts: 486
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:59 pm
Location: Woodland Hills, CA

Post by Tazio »

All I can say is a Vespa GTS250 or the GTV varient. I've had mine since new, service it myself and have had no problems. It will cruise all day at 70+ easily. My overall GPS gas milege for a 600 mile Amerivespa was 76.4 mpg. For a long stretch on the freeway on the way back my milege actually went up to 84.6 I usually go about 150-170 miles between fillups and carry an extra litre (never used) just in case.
The Racer's Motto:
Broken bones heal,
Chicks dig the scars,
The pain is temporary,
but the glory is forever!
tortoise
Member
Posts: 200
Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 2:45 pm
Location: Nevada

Re: Best 250cc Touring Scooter?

Post by tortoise »

skipper20 wrote:I'm going to stick with 250cc, nothing bigger, nothing smaller.
Irrational criteria!

For others . . include the 352cc Linhai in your research.

Linhai website
User avatar
Syd
Member
Posts: 4686
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:41 am
Location: Tempe

Re: Best 250cc Touring Scooter?

Post by Syd »

tortoise wrote:
skipper20 wrote:I'm going to stick with 250cc, nothing bigger, nothing smaller.
Irrational criteria!

For others . . include the 352cc Linhai in your research.

Linhai website
Or the BV350 for that matter.


But back on track, what about the Reflex/Elite? Ugly as goodness but every other town in the US has a Honda shop for parts.
The majority is always sane - Nessus
User avatar
Dooglas
Moderator
Posts: 4370
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:17 am
Location: Oregon City, OR

Re: Best 250cc Touring Scooter?

Post by Dooglas »

Syd wrote:Or the BV350 for that matter.
Bingo. This is my touring scooter of choice. And I met a fellow in early summer who had put 10,100 miles on his BV 350 in 34 days while traveling through 40 states!

http://modernvespa.com/forum/topic114778
User avatar
peabody99
Member
Posts: 1775
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:19 am
Location: San Diego

Re: Best 250cc Touring Scooter?

Post by peabody99 »

Dooglas wrote:
Syd wrote:Or the BV350 for that matter.
Bingo. This is my touring scooter of choice. And I met a fellow in early summer who had put 10,100 miles on his BV 350 in 34 days while traveling through 40 states!

http://modernvespa.com/forum/topic114778
I met John and spoke a bit about his adventure, what a nice guy! I agree the Bv would be a great tourer, they really are piaggios best product now I think. Really solid, long service intervals, etc. it's just too big for me. I'm hoping to do some touring on the Helix, but at this rate, not sure when that will be :? Comparing longish rides on Helix vs GTS, I prefer the helix. I notice less back pain, but I guess it depends on your body.

Also something I noticed for freeway riding where you are pretty much steady, full throttle on any 250, the Helix had less handle bar vibration-or it's the positioning of the wrist-and I don't get throttle wrist/ hand cramps like i do on the Vespa. Really this only comes into play if your doing full throttle riding for several miles though. What else? Well I don't prefer the rear brake operated by foot peddle on the Helix. In order to sort of be near it or even it cover it you have to keep your rt leg in the same position. I
really prefer to move my legs around on longer rides. Minor, but an
observation.
skipper20
Member
Posts: 836
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:19 am
Location: Des Moines, WA

Post by skipper20 »

Tazio wrote:All I can say is a Vespa GTS250 or the GTV varient. I've had mine since new, service it myself and have had no problems. It will cruise all day at 70+ easily. My overall GPS gas milege for a 600 mile Amerivespa was 76.4 mpg. For a long stretch on the freeway on the way back my milege actually went up to 84.6 I usually go about 150-170 miles between fillups and carry an extra litre (never used) just in case.
Do you have to keep yout feet flat on the floorboards or can you angle them up like with the Honda Reflex and the Honda Helix? Also, is the engine fuel injected and is it a true 250CC size give or take a few CCs? TIA,
User avatar
easy
Member
Posts: 582
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 4:58 pm
Location: whitwell tn

Post by easy »

Used 250 sport city, new I'd look out 300 cc scooters lot more choices. I got a kymco GTI300 it's nice but no long trips on it yet . Flat floorboard or hump, wheel size more important question.
what did you trade the day for?
User avatar
Tazio
Member
Posts: 486
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:59 pm
Location: Woodland Hills, CA

Post by Tazio »

I generally keep my feet flat on floorboard as that is comfortable for me. I did have a Pirate seat upgrade which is lowered and leather. I'm 5' 10" and couldn't get both feet flat on the ground at a stop.

Other people mentioned going slightly larger. If that's not a problem, the new GTS, GTV's are 300. Acutally 276 if I remeber correctly
The Racer's Motto:
Broken bones heal,
Chicks dig the scars,
The pain is temporary,
but the glory is forever!
User avatar
peabody99
Member
Posts: 1775
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:19 am
Location: San Diego

Post by peabody99 »

Well I know Skipper got rid of his Helix, but in case anyone else is thinking about 250s...in need of some fresh air, much more than I thought, I completed my longest day in the saddle-260 miles yesterday. It was a combination of freeway-to get a running start out of the city and back into it, twisty mountains, canyons, farmland/country road, suburb etc. The Helix, now broken in (got it with 5 miles now has over 3000), did wonderfully. The only time it sort of topped out and seemed slow (63 mph)was mountainous freeway, but then most of the cars were not doing great either and it is hardly like I was getting run over.

Again compared to the GTS (and this may be personal body mechanics), I didn't get full throttle wrist on 2 freeway runs, my arse was not numb, and my back only really got a little sore toward the end. I dont have a back rest either (helix owners swear by them)all in all pretty impressive. That and I didn't get the best night sleep, but was still feeling pretty high energy today
(sometimes after longer rides I'm really tired the next day).

The Helix topped out at 78.5 mph (just checked my GPS) and managed to
sort of hold its own in obnoxious, aggressive Orange County freeway traffic.As far at the other roads, I am not an aggressive twisty rider by any
stretch of the imagination, but I actually had some cars pulling in the
turnout to let me pass.LOL! Crotch rockets, not so much.
User avatar
jrsjr
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 3746
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2006 11:26 pm

Post by jrsjr »

peabody99 wrote:... I completed my longest day in the saddle-260 miles yesterday. It was a combination of freeway-to get a running start out of the city and back into it, twisty mountains, canyons, farmland/country road, suburb etc. The Helix, now broken in (got it with 5 miles now has over 3000), did wonderfully. The only time it sort of topped out and seemed slow (63 mph)was mountainous freeway, but then most of the cars were not doing great either and it is hardly like I was getting run over.

Again compared to the GTS (and this may be personal body mechanics), I didn't get full throttle wrist on 2 freeway runs, my arse was not numb, and my back only really got a little sore toward the end. I dont have a back rest either (helix owners swear by them)all in all pretty impressive. ...

The Helix topped out at 78.5 mph (just checked my GPS) and managed to
sort of hold its own in obnoxious, aggressive Orange County freeway traffic.As far at the other roads, I am not an aggressive twisty rider by any
stretch of the imagination, but I actually had some cars pulling in the turnout to let me pass. ...
Nice riding impression! Thanks for that. I have a question. In all seriousness, what would you want the Genuine Cruiser to do that the Helix does not do? I'm very curious what you think because you have a lot of riding experience on the 250 Vespa that's sort of become the "(non-maxi) scooter standard" and the Buddy which has become the "small scooter standard." That, plus you have a clear idea of what you wanted the cruiser to be. Where in relation to those scooters (particularly the mythical Genuine cruiser) would you put the Helix?
User avatar
charlie55
Member
Posts: 1930
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:47 pm
Location: New Jersey

Post by charlie55 »

jrsjr wrote:
peabody99 wrote:... I completed my longest day in the saddle-260 miles yesterday. It was a combination of freeway-to get a running start out of the city and back into it, twisty mountains, canyons, farmland/country road, suburb etc. The Helix, now broken in (got it with 5 miles now has over 3000), did wonderfully. The only time it sort of topped out and seemed slow (63 mph)was mountainous freeway, but then most of the cars were not doing great either and it is hardly like I was getting run over.

Again compared to the GTS (and this may be personal body mechanics), I didn't get full throttle wrist on 2 freeway runs, my arse was not numb, and my back only really got a little sore toward the end. I dont have a back rest either (helix owners swear by them)all in all pretty impressive. ...

The Helix topped out at 78.5 mph (just checked my GPS) and managed to
sort of hold its own in obnoxious, aggressive Orange County freeway traffic.As far at the other roads, I am not an aggressive twisty rider by any
stretch of the imagination, but I actually had some cars pulling in the turnout to let me pass. ...
Nice riding impression! Thanks for that. I have a question. In all seriousness, what would you want the Genuine Cruiser to do that the Helix does not do? I'm very curious what you think because you have a lot of riding experience on the 250 Vespa that's sort of become the "(non-maxi) scooter standard" and the Buddy which has become the "small scooter standard." That, plus you have a clear idea of what you wanted the cruiser to be. Where in relation to those scooters (particularly the mythical Genuine cruiser) would you put the Helix?
Forgive my jumping in here, but styling aside, I think that the Helix could be brought closer to the Unicorn paradigm with the following performance updates:

- Fuel injection
- 12" or greater rear wheel
- Front AND rear disk brakes

To go a step further, it wouldn't hurt if it had:

- Updated plastics to reduce buffeting and crosswind reaction.
- Improved brake/turn signal visibility from behind

The only other thing I can think of would be to lose the rear brake pedal and go with the left-bar-handle standard. Personally, I like the brake pedal, but some folks find it awkward.
Image
User avatar
RoadRambler
Member
Posts: 181
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 2:29 pm
Location: South of Richmond, VA

Post by RoadRambler »

I'd like to echo jrsjr's questions for Peabody (and anyone), especially in light of Peabody's writeups on her "new unicorn" thread about the Helix. I, too, am vertically challenged and have debated the two scooters, a Vespa GTS and a Helix, quite a bit (in my own mind lol) as to which I should get if/when I get something a bit larger than my Psycho. Every time I pretty much settle on one, some new information on the other comes up and then I'm in indecision mode again. I was pretty set on the GTS until Peabody talked about its weight and being able to flat foot and worried about dropping the GTS, vs. the lower Helix etc. in her other thread-- and suddenly I'm thinking Helix again.

So all these comments have been great for me, interesting and useful. For me, I'd rather a Genuine Cruiser be a little lower/longer/cruiser-like rather than upright/traditional like the GTS or a SYM HD200 -- but agree that observations from experienced folks like Peabody will be invaluable.
User avatar
charlie55
Member
Posts: 1930
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:47 pm
Location: New Jersey

Post by charlie55 »

RoadRambler wrote:I'd like to echo jrsjr's questions for Peabody (and anyone), especially in light of Peabody's writeups on her "new unicorn" thread about the Helix. I, too, am vertically challenged and have debated the two scooters, a Vespa GTS and a Helix, quite a bit (in my own mind lol) as to which I should get if/when I get something a bit larger than my Psycho. Every time I pretty much settle on one, some new information on the other comes up and then I'm in indecision mode again. I was pretty set on the GTS until Peabody talked about its weight and being able to flat foot and worried about dropping the GTS, vs. the lower Helix etc. in her other thread-- and suddenly I'm thinking Helix again.

So all these comments have been great for me, interesting and useful. For me, I'd rather a Genuine Cruiser be a little lower/longer/cruiser-like rather than upright/traditional like the GTS or a SYM HD200 -- but agree that observations from experienced folks like Peabody will be invaluable.
Your quandry is one of the reasons I'm uncomfortable with making any recommendations for a particular scooter. Basically, even though we're all responsible for the choices we make, I'd hate to be in a position where my input has nudged someone into a decision they later come to regret. Objective specs and subjective impressions are only useful to a point. Eventually, nothing is as definitive as "hands-on".

Too bad you're not in NJ. I'd have no problem with letting you take a test spin on "Red October".
Image
User avatar
BuddyRaton
Scooter Dork
Posts: 3887
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 10:08 pm
Location: Boca Raton, Florida
Contact:

Post by BuddyRaton »

SYM HD250
"Things fall apart - it's scientific" - David Byrne
www.teamscootertrash.com

'06 Cream Buddy 125, 11 Blur 220, 13 BMW C 650 GT, 68 Vespa SS180, 64 Vespa GS MK II, 65 Lambretta TV 175, 67 Vespa GT, 64 Vespa 150 VBB 64 Vespa GL
User avatar
Syd
Member
Posts: 4686
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:41 am
Location: Tempe

Post by Syd »

BuddyRaton wrote:SYM HD250
:+!: I always used to say the HD300, but if SYM could get out of a "250" what they can get out of the "200", then the HD250 would be an awesome scoot. As much as I like the BV350, the HD200 handles so much better than the Piaggio does.
The majority is always sane - Nessus
User avatar
peabody99
Member
Posts: 1775
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:19 am
Location: San Diego

Post by peabody99 »

I pretty much agree with Charlie regarding improvements to make a perfect Unicorn Genuine Cruiser-especially fuel injection. But the big other thing is design. I think the big thing expectation of a Genuine cruiser is a retro design. While I am one of the few people on the planet that finds the Helix sort of adorable, most do not. and I'm not sure I could see myself on a Sym type scooter. I suppose if it were the only choice for me I'd suck it up.

Oddly despite that 10 inch rear wheel on the Helix, I find it much less dodgy at higher speeds than the Vespa.

I am not a huge fan of the rear brake pedal-and this is just my issue maybe. One of the reasons I got the Helix was because it had a functional side stand. You can add one on a GTS, but there are too many horror stories of it not working and the bike getting dumped...and it is not cheap to repair a Vespa. I go out in the field a lot for work and never know what the terrain
will be. Sometimes its really hard to get a 250 on a center stand so the side stand is really nice. So all is well with the Helix using the side stand until I
have to start it. You really have to press the peddle hard with your right foot
while starting, leaving one leg to balance a 350lb++ bike on hilly terrain. If
the rear brake were on the left handle bar you would have both legs to hold the scooter up.

Luckily I rarely have to use the side stand on the Helix because it is a million times easier to get on (and most certainly off) the center stand than the GTS. The Helix is heavier than the GTS, but it is just better designed for me. Even when riding the GTS feels more top heavy to me. But yeah I still love it. It runs so smoothly and it's so pretty :)
Post Reply