California lane-splitting

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Southerner
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California lane-splitting

Post by Southerner »

I recently read an article saying that the authorities out there are running a study to ascertain from hard data whether there is a significantly higher risk of injury from lane-splitting. i am confused even as to the correct term. I have read that lane-splitting involves moving car traffic and filtering, the term they use in Europe, refers to making your way forward when car traffic is stopped.

I know a lot of you guys live in LA, etc. and possibly do this every day. Which of these things is legal? Does traffic have to be stopped? From here, it seems iffy to move between moving car traffic, unless it's going pretty slow. I would think the filtering would be beneficial in any case in any heavily-traffiicked area.

Also the comments following the article were replete with riders' horror tales about the hostility they get from car drivers, even to the point of swerving in the way. To me, this sounds like attempted murder. Do the authorities prosecute that sort of behavior?

I understand from my reading that CHP is favorable toward the practice and that the authorities in general are convinced that it is beneficial to relieve traffic congestion so I don't think the practice will go away.

Just would like to hear first-hand from you guys.
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peabody99
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Post by peabody99 »

Filtering through stopped of slowing traffic to a light is a dream! People are overwhelmingly fine or even helpful ie moving over some if you need space to squeeze through. Seriously, recently was the first time someone got mad and flipped me off...Arizona tags. They may not have understood it is standard practice in CA (yeah CA!)

I think CA just has guidelines for splitting as opposed to laws. I'm sure some will jump in and correct me of I am wrong...but I seem to recall that it is not recommended that there be a huge speed differential between car and motorcycle ie cars going 15, motorcycle 50. there may even be something an not going over 30mph tops. Not sure on that one. But anyway it's all common sense. What makes people mad are when cycles are going 80 mph dodging in and out of traffic. It ticks me off, and I ride. For one they come out of nowhere when I am pulling between lanes to respectfully split myself!

As for me, I am pretty picky about when I split. If there is enough space, I
almost always do it at lights. Although being spacially challenged, I won't always do it :) On the freeway...tough one. I happen to notice there is so
much texting when traffic slows, and then drifting...I do get wary. Very rare
for me to due it on the freeway. If traffic almost stopped, heck yes!

Finally splitting can have a big safety advantage in heavy traffic that has stopped. If you are between cars at the front of the cue, as opposed to being just like a car in the lane, you are at less risk of being rear ended. This is a pretty darn good advantage as far as I am concerned.
Last edited by peabody99 on Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by JHScoot »

i ride through everything where there is enough space and the road is straight. whatever is in front of me is soon behind me when splitting is involved, and i am always doing it. if it became unlawful it might be dramatic to say i would quit riding, but i would keep on doing it. i'm sure many California riders would, too. tickets? go unpaid in protest. insurance? i'd bite the bullet. revoke my M1? i'd ride, anyway! and split all the while

not to rebel but just because its so natural. its like what a guy in this one video says..."its just what motorcycles do." and scooters, of course. for me their is no going back. although even before i began to split riding was still a big advantage in the city, so i could probably work around an outright "ban." but my mind boggles at the prospect of waiting behind cars at lights and not riding through them when they are going 30mph in a 30mph zone and i am going 40mph. you mean i need to SLOW DOWN instead of split?

i don't think so! :x

lots of reasoning and logic goes into splitting at speed. its all spatial, and on the fly at that. cars are moving...watch those gaps....watch for slowing or stopped traffic, slow down and beware of what might be ahead....watch for bikes behind you before beginning a split....watch for people jockeying for position near lights when traffic is offset. your way in may close real fast

its my favorite part of riding, coming up on traffic and riding through it, around it, and onward in spite of it. some people say urban riding is boring. i think it all depends on where and how you ride. its an environment thing, riding. imo. open roads, curvy canyons, mountains or the coast. rural commuter or otherwise. i am an urban commuter, daily rider. and getting around the city as efficiently as possible is a daily adventure of "Dodge Car." and bus and truck, too. thanks to lane splitting, that is. and i doubt i could have it any other way. but, i would try

i've been spoiled rotten by The Golden State :cry:

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Post by Wolfhound »

I wonder what the accident ratio is for lane splitting? Fatal or otherwise. I have seen it done on the Atlanta downtown expressways. Usually crotch
rocket riders and they dart in and out in front of cars and trucks and lane split also. However keep in mind that downtown Atlanta Xway traffic tends to
move at 55-60 mph OR a bumper to bumper crawl. In the rural areas where I live and ride I have never seen it done, no need to as traffic is not that heavy. I dont have an opinion on it one way or the other, just curious.
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Post by olhogrider »

Recently the state released "guidelines" for lane sharing. It was their way of letting car divers know that it is legal. Unfortunately, some people will look at those as THE LAW. It is not. There are no restrictions on speed, road or anything for that matter. As a matter of fact, it turns out there is a law preventing any motorist from maneuvering to impede the travel of another motorist, i.e. us. So when, not if, they hit you, they are in violation of that law as well as violating your right of way.

Nevada tried to legalize it, but so far they are still too primitive. We can only hope for their enlightenment.
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Post by Southerner »

Wolfhound wrote:I wonder what the accident ratio is for lane splitting? Fatal or otherwise. I have seen it done on the Atlanta downtown expressways. Usually crotch
rocket riders and they dart in and out in front of cars and trucks and lane split also. However keep in mind that downtown Atlanta Xway traffic tends to
move at 55-60 mph OR a bumper to bumper crawl. In the rural areas where I live and ride I have never seen it done, no need to as traffic is not that heavy. I dont have an opinion on it one way or the other, just curious.
Your mention of ATL just brings back memories, and not good ones. ATL is the one biggest city that I've had to drive in and usually I have to go I-85 through town, which is probably the single worst place to drive. I can just see myself trying to lane-split in that environment. The way car drivers weave and change lanes without warning (it seems that nationwide, a decision has been made that turn signal use is optional) . I would be nervous enough staying in the lane. It's iffy as is when using a car.

All things considered, it might actually be safer to lane-split. I certainly don't like being stuck between two larger vehicles but I guess it just gets back to the undeniable fact that as cyclists, we have no margin for error.

I watched most of the video and will finish it later. Gotta say that from here, they aren't convincing me. I guess it's probably easier to understand when one is actually riding in that environment.
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Post by koyla87 »

Here in San Diego,
A police officer in a squad car pulled me over for lane splitting past him (he thought i was in a hurry or something)
he was saying that it is illegal to go between traffic when the traffic is moving. hah
he was only a regular cop and not a Traffic cop. maybe he was new to the job and it was the end of the month. He didn't notice my red underbody glow or my blinking LEDs in the back wheel. cause that is illegal apparently....

We have some odd rules here in Cali.
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charlie55
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Post by charlie55 »

One thing to bear in mind: lane splitting or filtering is fine and seems to work well where it is aready an established procedure. However, the process of introducing it into new areas/jurisdictions has the potential for becoming a bloody mess - literally. Even with plenty of PSAs and awareness campaigns, I'm afraid that the learning curve would be pretty steep. Decades of driving/riding habits won't just disappear overnight and a lot of folks are going to pay a heavy price during the transitional period.
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Post by JHScoot »

Southerner wrote:
Wolfhound wrote:I wonder what the accident ratio is for lane splitting? Fatal or otherwise. I have seen it done on the Atlanta downtown expressways. Usually crotch
rocket riders and they dart in and out in front of cars and trucks and lane split also. However keep in mind that downtown Atlanta Xway traffic tends to
move at 55-60 mph OR a bumper to bumper crawl. In the rural areas where I live and ride I have never seen it done, no need to as traffic is not that heavy. I dont have an opinion on it one way or the other, just curious.
Your mention of ATL just brings back memories, and not good ones. ATL is the one biggest city that I've had to drive in and usually I have to go I-85 through town, which is probably the single worst place to drive. I can just see myself trying to lane-split in that environment. The way car drivers weave and change lanes without warning (it seems that nationwide, a decision has been made that turn signal use is optional) . I would be nervous enough staying in the lane. It's iffy as is when using a car.

All things considered, it might actually be safer to lane-split. I certainly don't like being stuck between two larger vehicles but I guess it just gets back to the undeniable fact that as cyclists, we have no margin for error.

I watched most of the video and will finish it later. Gotta say that from here, they aren't convincing me. I guess it's probably easier to understand when one is actually riding in that environment.
i could imagine its not for everyone. i see riders not split all the time. lots of bikes on the road are not practical for it. not that a skilled rider cannot maneuver a large bike, but the bike itself is physically too large to split. big cruisers and wide bars and mirrors, not the best for the task. its just a matter of size. in this case, smaller is better. so when i see riders around town not splitting i just figure its not their thing to do. or maybe on that day, on that bike? who knows? its a proactive way of riding so its all up to the rider at any given time. i didn't do it until a year and a half into riding

the Buddy is so light and nimble its great at splitting. and when traffic is PACKED it filters like crazy, too :)

the point is to pass cars. keep moving. this is what makes it efficient, and keeps you safe. we don't ride between cars. that is unsafe. we pass cars. sometimes conditions change and we get squeezed, or come to a stop five inches from a bus, car bumpers all around. but once it opens up, even a little, guess who gets to ride through?

traffic does get pretty intimate when splitting at times. cars will close in front of you, and you need to be ready to slow and fall back and take the next opportunity. which is usually when the driver weaving over wakes up a second later, and you can go ahead and ride through :D
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Post by agrogod »

charlie55 wrote:One thing to bear in mind: lane splitting or filtering is fine and seems to work well where it is aready an established procedure. However, the process of introducing it into new areas/jurisdictions has the potential for becoming a bloody mess - literally. Even with plenty of PSAs and awareness campaigns, I'm afraid that the learning curve would be pretty steep. Decades of driving/riding habits won't just disappear overnight and a lot of folks are going to pay a heavy price during the transitional period.
Have to agree with this point. Over here on the right coast and especially with the constant Jersey vs. PA. attitude as to whom has the better drivers, it would be a crap shoot as to how many cycle riders you took out each day because they were doing that "illegal lane thing".
Watching the vid I was pleased to see, on several different occasion's, where cars actually moved over to make room. Its not a me vs. you when operating a vehicle, I just want to get some where, and if lane splitting helps achieve this so be it. Luckily for me I don't live in a heavy traffic area so its not an issue that affects me. If my scoot had to take up a 'space' in traffic, that is one more car length closer you as a car driver would be to getting to where you needed to go, if lane splitting were allowed.
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Post by Tazio »

I will ride to the front of a stopped line of cars if there is enough room. The Buddy is great for this, the Vespa less so because of its size. The Ural, no way but I can go through the mud and 2 foot deep water when necessary.
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Post by Christophers »

It's worth pointing out that lane splitting is still optional in California. While it's likely that most bigger bikes don't split lanes because of their size, I've seen many scooters sitting behind a long line of traffic when there is ample room to filter to the front.

When I filter to the front a line of stopped traffic at a light I do try to come off the line fast to avoid irritating the drivers in cars the at the front of the line. If I'm at the front of the line without having filtered or split lanes to get there I accelerate off of the line a lot more casually. My psychology about it is to treat the drivers in cars as respectfully as I want them to treat me, and to communicate to them that I'm riding legally and responsibly. For the most part it works out really well.
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Post by Wolfhound »

You understand, Southerner, having ridden here. When I drive in Atlanta I know which lane IU need to be in to get thru and I stay in it. 75 is terrible but 75 is not much better. When you follow the traffic reports on the radio it sounds like they are announcing a demolition derby. I do my best to stay off of it and use the Atlanta bypass when I can. Even the By Pass is known as the suicide circle. The biggest problem is not hostility but drivers texting and talking on cel phones while driving 70 miles an hour. Not a pleasant place to ride. :headache: :headache:
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Post by JHScoot »

agrogod wrote:
charlie55 wrote:One thing to bear in mind: lane splitting or filtering is fine and seems to work well where it is aready an established procedure. However, the process of introducing it into new areas/jurisdictions has the potential for becoming a bloody mess - literally. Even with plenty of PSAs and awareness campaigns, I'm afraid that the learning curve would be pretty steep. Decades of driving/riding habits won't just disappear overnight and a lot of folks are going to pay a heavy price during the transitional period.
Have to agree with this point. Over here on the right coast and especially with the constant Jersey vs. PA. attitude as to whom has the better drivers, it would be a crap shoot as to how many cycle riders you took out each day because they were doing that "illegal lane thing".
Watching the vid I was pleased to see, on several different occasion's, where cars actually moved over to make room. Its not a me vs. you when operating a vehicle, I just want to get some where, and if lane splitting helps achieve this so be it. Luckily for me I don't live in a heavy traffic area so its not an issue that affects me. If my scoot had to take up a 'space' in traffic, that is one more car length closer you as a car driver would be to getting to where you needed to go, if lane splitting were allowed.
yeah i don't think it would work for all riders well if other states implemented it. it seems in other states many riders don't lobby for it, either. apparently frustrating some pro splitting riders who see the quest to abolish helmet laws as folly when focus could be put on changing the riding environment, not what you wear on your head while riding

being native Californian i grew up seeing it and spent all my adult life seeing it before i hopped on two wheels. so i just never thought anything of it other then perhaps "good for them" when an occasional bike passed whatever i was driving. in other states the attitude is most likely much different at times

it's said 60% of Californians understand its legal or just done, and 40% think not. either way i never get a hassle. once or twice or three times a car has tried to move over on me when traffic is STOPPED. i know they did it on purpose because creeping out did nothing for them except impede me. silly drivers, don't they know bikes can ride horizontally, too? now they have to make all that effort to steer their car back three feet as i zip right past, if crookedly :P
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Post by brianwheelies »

olhogrider wrote: Nevada tried to legalize it, but so far they are still too primitive. We can only hope for their enlightenment.
I have never seen more true words about the people here.

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Post by Wolfhound »

SC and FL do not require helmets. GA and NC do. From a safety viewpoint
helmet laws should be on the books in all states. I am a big proponent of safety garb. :fp:
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Post by Southerner »

Wolfhound wrote:You understand, Southerner, having ridden here. When I drive in Atlanta I know which lane IU need to be in to get thru and I stay in it. 75 is terrible but 75 is not much better. When you follow the traffic reports on the radio it sounds like they are announcing a demolition derby. I do my best to stay off of it and use the Atlanta bypass when I can. Even the By Pass is known as the suicide circle. The biggest problem is not hostility but drivers texting and talking on cel phones while driving 70 miles an hour. Not a pleasant place to ride. :headache: :headache:

Yeah. I will never forget leaving Six Flags after dusk and seeing the glow shining on so many drivers' face. And the direction it was coming from was not their dashboards.
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Post by ericalm »

Here's the lowdown on lane splitting, copied and pasted and edited from many other threads about this topic:

There's a lot of misinformation and apocryphal info out there about driving laws and, in particular, lane splitting.

I have scoured the CA Vehicle Codes and LEO websites. All I've been able to find is that, yes lanesplitting is legal though primarily because it's not prohibited by the VC. There are no codes stipulating any sort of restrictions on it. What you will find on the CHP site is language saying it must be done in a "safe and prudent" manner. This is not codified; it's a standard for enforcement, their own policy.
http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/answers.html

In 2013, the CHP issues new "guidelines" for lane splitting, but these are again not the law and largely applicable to splitting on the highways and freeways — the CHP main jurisdictions.
http://www.chp.ca.gov/programs/lanesplitguide.html

The "safe and prudent" language apparently came from the old code permitting lane splitting, CA VC 21658, section (b):
(b) Official signs may be erected directing slow-moving traffic to use a designated lane or allocating specified lanes to traffic moving in the same direction, and drivers of vehicles shall obey the directions of the traffic device. “Lane splitting” by motorcycles is permissible but must be done in a safe and prudent manner.
This was later amended to remove the lane splitting portion of the code.

The current section (a) of 21658, BTW, states:
A vehicle shall be driven as nearly as practical entirely within a single lane and shall not be moved from the lane until such movement can be made with reasonable safety.

This means that lane "sharing" is probably closer to legal (try arguing that in court!) than splitting.

Here's what a lawyer who's part of a motorcycle law network had to say about it:
…California allows lane sharing, which means that motorcycles can drive in between cars that are in a lane. Now, most motorists regard that as an insane and an illegal act by a motorcyclist. However, although not legally set forth in the law, it is not against any law. The California Highway Patrol used to have guidelines where they advised people about what was safe to do for lane sharing, but they have since taken that off of their pamphlet on motorcycling and now they just say that all you have to do is do it in a safe and prudent manner. Essentially what they're saying is that a safe and prudent manner is probably that you're not supposed to go faster than 35 miles an hour and you probably shouldn't go faster than 15 or 20 miles faster than the traffic that you're passing. Obviously, there are ways to do lane sharing that are safer than others and you should try to do that.
http://accident-law.freeadvice.com/acci ... e-laws.htm

The state driver's handbook states:
Motorcycles may travel faster than traffic during congested road conditions and can travel in the unused space between two lines of moving or stationary vehicles, which is commonly called lane splitting.
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/shr_slo ... otorcycles

The motorcycle handbook has a section on lane "sharing"; it's discouraged there, but nowhere does it state any guidelines for doing it.

However, the definition of "reckless driving" is pretty much wide open to interpretation by any LEO.

Keep in mind, behaviors such as riding in bike lanes, "splitting" on the right or misusing turn lanes are illegal in CA under any circumstances. Swerving between lanes is just dangerous. There are no laws allowing riders to act as I've seen some squids (and a few scooterists). Ride like a jerk, get caught, get a ticket.
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Post by ericalm »

OKAY. Now, is it safe?

Well, the Hurt Report found that there were fewer multi vehicle crashes in CA due, in part, to fewer rear-end collisions due to lane splitting. Of course, Hurt is very dated and subject to some serious criticism as to how relevant it is now due to changes in traffic, cars and bikes. But it's still the most comprehensive research we have to work with.

If there are anecdotal horror stories, well, there are many more for crashes that had nothing to do with lane splitting.

Anecdotally, I have either seen or been with riders involved in almost two dozen crashes. I've seen only one incident due to lane splitting (a Vespa GTS taking a mirror off a car, oops). Among the many more crashes I've just heard about from people I know (in person, not just online), only one splitting incident, which resulted in a broken finger.

I'm not saying serious crashes don't occur because of splitting, just that it's not any more dangerous than any other riding.

It pretty much freaks out most people from out of CA. One of the things I look for when splitting is out of state plates. But for the most part, CA drivers — especially in cities where traffic is thick — are very amenable and friendly.
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Post by Tomato Bisque »

Growing up here I thought it was a given everywhere! When I first got my scooter I was a nervous nellie and driving like a car until I got the balls to skirt around people- oh the joy! It's basically mandatory where I live or I'd be sitting there all day long. I'm fairly cautious about it though and generally only do it where there's generous berth.

I'll scoot down to the front and zip off at the light. Sometimes people are jerks and try to drag race which makes me laugh. I just let them go even though I could probably beat them.
I also pass everyone very slow traffic going up a hill when getting off work. I (and others) don't go between lanes but on the outside to the right . There's no parked cars, intersections so it's very easy to do.

Before I became bipedal I think the general consensus about it was "grrr" manic envy. Sure, some guys can be a bit much on the freeway but in general it's accepted- no, it's expected.
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Post by skully93 »

I've done it at an intersection near me that nearly everyone turns left, and I go straight. However, that is ONLY in stopped traffic. Lane filtering is illegal here.

That being said, I've seen sportbike riders do it, and safely so. Perhaps they were from CA or just knew how to do it. The reaction from people in traffic may vary to the point of utter murder though, so it's not something I'd risk.
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Post by Southerner »

It would take a long time to educate the public around here. For instance, it's common among traffic engineers to want to introduce roundabouts to replace stoplights but planners in most jurisdictions are leery of the effects. I've personally seen some stupid stuff at the few we have despite the lavish warning signs.
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Post by ericalm »

Tomato Bisque wrote:Growing up here I thought it was a given everywhere! When I first got my scooter I was a nervous nellie and driving like a car until I got the balls to skirt around people- oh the joy! It's basically mandatory where I live or I'd be sitting there all day long. I'm fairly cautious about it though and generally only do it where there's generous berth.
Caution is good. I do on occasion see some n00b scooterists or bikers who make me a bit nervous — for them more than anything else. The ones who are too balls out or blatantly ignore the laws are the worst — they make us all look bad. Saw a guy on a sportbike one day have to duck to avoid a truck mirror. (This was on the long split up Barham to Cahuenga from Burbank to Hollywood.)

But people who ride like that are going to ride like that wherever they are, causing one kind of trouble or another.
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Post by JHScoot »

i would like to understand the difference between "swerving in and out of lanes" and changing lanes? if we are moving through traffic, splitting lanes and riding through car sized gaps sometimes multiple car lengths long, isn't a bit of "swerve" necessary?

unless what is meant is cutting people off, close in with no signaling? just barreling along about it, and such?

i mean i stay down the middle most of the time but sometimes conditions mean moving in and out a little, and going around traffic, etc. otherwise cars will bump into me, not the other way around tbh

but hopefully we're all proper and safe out there at any given moment :)
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Post by BootScootin'FireFighter »

Legal or not, I will be splitting when the zombie apocalypse hits. And I can care less if I break your mirror.

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I tried lanespitting in DC. While I felt confident the whole time, it was a frustrating experience having a car try to block me on several occasions in the same day. It rarely made much of a difference here as the lanes are already as narrow as possible due to old designs and adding bicycle lanes, further narrowing the lanes. Then of course it was a game of split to the front, race ahead 1 block, split again, repeat several times. It would be nice if it was legalized here, but I just don't go into DC often enough to make it worthwhile, and traffic in Virginia (at least on roads I use regularly) is not terrible. If it is that bad, I find a nearby detour to avoid the backup. It's amazing how mindless most drivers are and only know the same damn way to get from home to work. I watched a car wait over 30 minutes on the shoulder of a road that was blocked by an accident we were working, when all the driver had to do was back up 50 feet and go around the block!
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Post by Graeck »

I took a MSF course here in CA a year ago. The instructor made these points:

- Lane splitting is legal in CA, mostly because it's not prohibited.
- It's usually not a good idea (it was a safety course after all)
- The only time the instructor said he himself lane splits is to get to the front of a line of cars at an intersection, or in slow moving traffic.
- Never lane split between a line of cars and a left (or right) hand turn lane

and perhaps most importantly...

A cop can pull you over any time you lane split if he/she personally thinks what you did was dangerous in any way and give you a ticket.

So, be careful.

I'm not a big fan personally. I've seen a motorcycle go down on the freeway while lane splitting in traffic (something specifically not advised by our MSF instructor), and I've had two friends who've been side swiped by a lane splitter. One had their right side mirror taken off (well, broken and hanging), the other had a plastic panel next to the rear-passenger window taken off. These were also both on the freeway.

I think my sense of self-preservation is just too high to lane split (other than moving to the front of stopped cars at an intersection). I just don't trust the other people out there.
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Post by Southerner »

Your point about it not being prohibited reminds me. Somewhere in that video above, or maybe in some of my other reading, the state's attitude is that they don't recommend it just like they don't recommend driving in the fog.

Seems like officialdoms' way of saying "OK, but be it on your own head."

Like pretty much anything else in life, there are those who will use it wisely and those heedless fools who approach it with the same lack of caution they do everything else.

I think it's useful but can see how government types would be hesitant to try it.
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Post by JHScoot »

Graeck wrote:I took a MSF course here in CA a year ago. The instructor made these points:

- Lane splitting is legal in CA, mostly because it's not prohibited.
- It's usually not a good idea (it was a safety course after all)
- The only time the instructor said he himself lane splits is to get to the front of a line of cars at an intersection, or in slow moving traffic.
- Never lane split between a line of cars and a left (or right) hand turn lane

and perhaps most importantly...

A cop can pull you over any time you lane split if he/she personally thinks what you did was dangerous in any way and give you a ticket.

So, be careful.

I'm not a big fan personally. I've seen a motorcycle go down on the freeway while lane splitting in traffic (something specifically not advised by our MSF instructor), and I've had two friends who've been side swiped by a lane splitter. One had their right side mirror taken off (well, broken and hanging), the other had a plastic panel next to the rear-passenger window taken off. These were also both on the freeway.

I think my sense of self-preservation is just too high to lane split (other than moving to the front of stopped cars at an intersection). I just don't trust the other people out there.
as pointed out lane splitting is optional for riders, but i have to disagree with your instructor on his "never" do this or that, and its more dangerous then not. i would like to see data to back that up

if i ride between two or more slower moving vehicles at reasonable speed it is no more dangerous then any other kind of riding. everything is fluid when moving through traffic. so this guy never lane splits except at stopped traffic lights? good for him

again, splitting lanes in general and as conditions permit is no more dangerous then any other type of riding. if you think so don't be fooled by a false sense of security out there on the road if you do not split. you are just as vulnerable, and at times more so, as those of us who do

i would like to see hard stats and facts that show its more dangerous then any other kind of riding on the road
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Post by ericalm »

JHScoot wrote:i would like to understand the difference between "swerving in and out of lanes" and changing lanes?
I would also like for you, and everyone on the roads, to understand the difference.
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Post by JHScoot »

well if you have time to signal and change lanes and pass, i suppose its not a swerve? but sometimes this is done more quickly then at other times. it all depends on what is ahead of you, or what may be transpiring around you

i think of swerving as swerving around cones as if on an obstacle course. but moving through the cones with deliberation and tact i believe is different. however to drivers and perhaps many riders their isn't a difference?

i suppose i don't need to know the difference if i don't swerve through traffic. i am pretty sure i do not. but i am also not in a car, so i don't ride down the road like i am driving a car

well, if some want to ride a bike like they drive a car that is fine. just remember its a really small car. so, have some good, clean fun with it and leave traffic behind :D
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Post by agrogod »

swerving and lane changes, with math.

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Post by JHScoot »

that is awesome

i now know i am a lane changer, not a swerver. science ftw

and of course a lane splitter. but thats a whole other thing :ninja:
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Post by Southerner »

JHScoot wrote:............I would like to see hard stats and facts that show its more dangerous then any other kind of riding on the road
Hopefully we will when this new study is completed.
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Post by JHScoot »

just want to post to say i don't mean to sound lackadaisical in my attitude about lane splitting. but i'd rather emphasize it's joys (speaking for myself), advantages, and my personal POV about it then post about dangers and safety. some things if you ride well, responsibly, and with common sense, are givens

i want to post my reasoning for riding between cars being reasonably safe. i mean the actual action of being between the cars, and moving forward. not what is ahead or "might happen." just being between cars

i feel safe riding past cars like this. when was the last time you saw cars just go swiping into one another in traffic when they know another car is next to them, or near? literally just bang into another car? almost never, if ever. they know a car is beside them. so, what would make a person think they will start banging into each other just because you are riding between them? if you can ride in a straight line you can ride between cars, easily. even while they are moving at good speed. your lane is straight down the middle and most of the time it will remain open long enough for you to ride past. remember that is what you're doing. not riding with these cars, but past them

its a little, motorcycle lane :D

and honestly, its about as simple as that. i'll leave the danger warnings to others. cars are STUCK at each others sides. those sides make our lanes. watch for gaps and open spaces. many will dart out unexpectedly to gain a few feet if possible. so get out of blind spots and get into or out of open spaces, and be decisive about it. stay between cars as much as possible. this actually protects a rider to a certain degree. no longer in traffic, traffic is now around you and you are moving through it as it provides space and a shield for you.

all the other things to take into consideration come with the ride. speed, conditions, environment...as said those things are givens. but all in all imo lane splitting is just like any other sort of riding. i go out and ride everyday and it just happens. like leaving the driveway and turning left or right. it becomes a part of daily riding imo. for me its routine. i cannot even entertain the "OMG never, ever do it!" crowd. safety suggestions? yes, of course. dire warnings and predictions? nope

maybe one day i will wreck doing it? maybe one day i will slip on a banana peel? or someone will turn left in front of me? or the day i choose not to split lanes i get rear ended riding in traffic as opposed to at its sides? but if i ever go down again its sure to be one thing or another

but yes, i love riding and am a pretty big proponent of lane splitting. which is neither here nor there until i come across reading of its incredibly over hyped dangers. the practice itself imo is no more dangerous then any other on a bike and does have its advantages. but the rider may be another story

even if a study comes out pro or con for or against it i will take it with a grain of salt either way. because for me its just part of what to do on a bike. its legal and practical and makes urban commuting an experience i can appreciate
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Post by Wolfhound »

Being in between the cars on an fast moving xway in Atlanta can be suicidal.
They tend to side swipe each other with great regularity so a bike in that position would tend to be a the salami in the car wreck sandwich.
Coming back from my dog show visit today I nearly got side swiped 3 times in 4 miles and I am used to Atlanta traffic. Ever trip is a new adventure.
Not attacking your position and it is possible that our drivers here watch too many stock car races. To each his own choice said the man as he kissed the cow. :wink:
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Post by Stinkdyr »

I was filtering forward at a stop light between stopped cars in traffic here in Boston a few weeks ago. A state troop came running up between the cars (filtering himself forward on two legs) in order to grab me by the jacket and tell me to pull off the road. He then went all hard azz lecture on me for 10 minutes about lane splitting being illegal. I tried to explain that if traffic is not moving, I do not think it qualifies as lane splitting, etc. But he was practicing his hard azz lecture skills, so no point. He also tried to inform me that it was illegal to ride a scooter at night........first time I have ever heard this one!

:shock:
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Post by Dooglas »

Stinkdyr wrote:I was filtering forward at a stop light between stopped cars in traffic here in Boston a few weeks ago. A state troop came running up between the cars (filtering himself forward on two legs) in order to grab me by the jacket and tell me to pull off the road. He then went all hard azz lecture on me for 10 minutes about lane splitting being illegal. I tried to explain that if traffic is not moving, I do not think it qualifies as lane splitting, etc.
In other words, you were violating Massachusetts law, but you thought it was okay anyway, and you didn't like the fact that a police officer disagreed with you. (note to self - in those instances, the police officer wins)

These lane splitting discussions always go the same way. A few thoughtful comments from some riders where lane splitting is legal - or at least allowed - and a whole lot of chest thumping from other riders who think it is their right to do whatever they want, where ever they want, and think the rest of us are old grandmas for being concerned about the clear risks involved.
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Post by Lotrat »

I'll lane split from time to time, but I will always filter. I've had a family member and friend rear-ended while riding. Neither ended well. The following pic has been floating around and is a great argument for why you would want to filter through cars.
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Post by Wolfhound »

What Dooglas said. :clap: :clap: :clap:
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Post by Stinkdyr »

Someone wrote: "In other words, you were violating Massachusetts law, but you thought it was okay anyway, and you didn't like the fact that a police officer disagreed with you. (note to self - in those instances, the police officer wins)

These lane splitting discussions always go the same way. A few thoughtful comments from some riders where lane splitting is legal - or at least allowed - and a whole lot of chest thumping from other riders who think it is their right to do whatever they want, where ever they want, and think the rest of us are old grandmas for being concerned about the clear risks involved."[/quote]

I am not so sure I was in violation of the law here in MA. Is filtering the same as lane splitting if all traffic is at a full stop at a stoplight? Is riding a scooter illegal at night here in MA? I have never heard that before, have you?
Last edited by Stinkdyr on Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by ericalm »

Stinkdyr wrote:I was filtering forward at a stop light between stopped cars in traffic here in Boston a few weeks ago. A state troop came running up between the cars (filtering himself forward on two legs) in order to grab me by the jacket and tell me to pull off the road. He then went all hard azz lecture on me for 10 minutes about lane splitting being illegal. I tried to explain that if traffic is not moving, I do not think it qualifies as lane splitting, etc. But he was practicing his hard azz lecture skills, so no point. He also tried to inform me that it was illegal to ride a scooter at night........first time I have ever heard this one!

:shock:
Well, regardless of whether what you were doing was legal, it sounds as if there was some overreaction from the trooper.

What you've described is commonly called filtering, which is still illegal in most states as far as I know.

But this does bring up a couple of good points, as true in California as anywhere else:

1. No matter what the law is, on the road, Law Enforcement Officers are always right. Arguing will rarely help the situation. Claiming to know the law better than they do (even if that's the case!) will probably only make it worse.

2. Law Enforcement Officers don't know everything about every law and are sometimes wrong. I've heard a lot of inaccurate claims about lane splitting made by LEOs. LEOs often aren't familiar with scooters and the different laws applicable to mopeds, scooters of various displacements and motorcycles. This just goes to show that enforcement varies and if you ride like a jackass, you'll get a ticket (I hope), but you might even if you think you're riding reasonably. Think the law is on your side? Fight it in court, not in the street.

Yes, these are sort of contradictory. But fact is, even when they're wrong, they're "right" and you're at their mercy.
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Post by ericalm »

agrogod wrote:swerving and lane changes, with math.

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BRILLIANT.

As far as I'm concerned, on the road, a lane change involves proper signaling in time to alert others on the road and prudently moving from one lane to the next at, or under, the speed of the flow of traffic.

Swerving between lanes is recklessly — often without signaling — and quickly moving between lanes and/or around traffic, often while disregarding the speed of the flow. This would include sudden lane changes such as quickly moving from a slow lane or stopped position to an open or faster lane, weaving through traffic at a significantly higher rate of speed than the flow, cutting across lanes, and for 2-wheelers, squeezing between stopped or slowly moving cars to pass from lane to lane.
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Post by Wolfhound »

Down here is the problem is that only one in ten, 2 or 4 wheeler, uses their turn signals. Driving in heavy traffic here is rather like playing Russian Roulette. :goofy: drivers.
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Post by jrstone »

I'd love it if filtering (not interested in lane splitting) was legal in Oklahoma. But even if it was, the first time I tried it, some jackass in a Harley Davidson Ford F-150 (who has never even sat on a motorcycle) would murder me to death because of the extra 0.02 seconds he would have to wait to take off from the light.
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Post by Dooglas »

Stinkdyr wrote:I am not so sure I was in violation of the law here in MA. Is filtering the same as lane splitting if all traffic is at a full stop at a stoplight?
Setting aside for the moment whether it would be best if a rider knew the laws of the state in which he rides - filtering is another word for lane splitting. Lane splitting is two motor vehicles sharing the width of the same lane at the same time. That is illegal in most states, including Massachusetts, to my knowledge. Moving to the front of a lane of stopped or slowly moving vehicles (what most people mean when they say filtering), also raises some related issues depending on how you do it - such as passing on the right or improper use of a turning lane.

(regardless of how you do it, no one riding in the US outside the state of California should be surprised if a law enforcement officer takes a fairly dim view of the practice)
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Post by ericalm »

Dooglas wrote:
Stinkdyr wrote:I am not so sure I was in violation of the law here in MA. Is filtering the same as lane splitting if all traffic is at a full stop at a stoplight?
Setting aside for the moment whether it would be best if a rider knew the laws of the state in which he rides - filtering is another word for lane splitting. Lane splitting is two motor vehicles sharing the width of the same lane at the same time. That is illegal in most states, including Massachusetts, to my knowledge. Moving to the front of a lane of stopped or slowly moving vehicles (what most people mean when they say filtering), also raises some related issues depending on how you do it - such as passing on the right or improper use of a turning lane.

(regardless of how you do it, no one riding in the US outside the state of California should be surprised if a law enforcement officer takes a fairly dim view of the practice)
Even in California, almost anything you do in order to lane split is technically illegal due to laws covering lane use, passing, signaling, etc. The policy here is VERY (and, I think, intentionally) obtuse and passive-aggressive.
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Post by EvilNerdLord »

Here's what the California department of motorvehicles has to say about it...to put all the hear-say to rest:

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/about/2011mc_safety.htm

and the California highway patrol says:

http://www.chp.ca.gov/programs/lanesplitguide.html

:headache:
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Post by Tomato Bisque »

ericalm- "Barham" is my sluggish, uphill commute! It was much worse when I started out, driving like a car, puttering along. Very awkward. Much smoother to bypass cars
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