Big Valve Head

tommyred · Post by **tommyred** » Fri Aug 23, 2013 2:40 pm

After kitting my 125 to 161, I feel like I need a tad more top end. So I got a NCY big head valve kit, NCY oil cooler, performance valve springs, and an NCY oil decompression tube kit. Hopefully it'll give me a few more MPH.

I'm still using the stock carb, so any recommendation on what jets should work best with this setup, or is it just trial by fire?

Tocsik · Post by **Tocsik** » Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:12 pm

How is the 125 -> 161 comparing to your 150?

tortoise · Post by **tortoise** » Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:12 pm

tommyred wrote:is it just trial by fire?

One strategy is trial by cylinder head temperature . . meter with 10mm spark plug sensor.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:34 pm

The BBK is much more about torque than it is top end. Unless you are going to get more rpms you are not going to get more top end.

I put a BBK on a 125, opened airbox, 26mm carb,NCY pipe and stock head. I'm not convinved that the Big Head makes any difference. You can't get more fuel through the valves than is coming out of the carb.

With the stock head this thing will wheelie right out from under you if not careful.

monnoracing · Post by **monnoracing** » Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:51 pm

Are you still using the stock airbox?

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:05 pm

monnoracing wrote:Are you still using the stock airbox?

Modified airbox. Pulled the baffel and opened it up

tommyred · Post by **tommyred** » Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:08 pm

Tocsik wrote:How is the 125 -> 161 comparing to your 150?

From 0 to 50, the 125 screams. But the 150 easily goes 70, 75. The 125 tops out at 55. Faster downhill. Before I kitted it, I could go 60 no problem.

I love the extra power, but want at least 10 more MPH, and I hope the new head does it. If I have to hop on the highway, I want to at least go 60, 65.

tommyred · Post by **tommyred** » Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:11 pm

tortoise wrote:
tommyred wrote:is it just trial by fire?
One strategy is trial by cylinder head temperature . . meter with 10mm spark plug sensor.

Thanks for the info. I'm already adding an NCY performance oil cooler.

tommyred · Post by **tommyred** » Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:12 pm

monnoracing wrote:Are you still using the stock airbox?

Yes, it's stock. Any reasonable alternatives?

tommyred · Post by **tommyred** » Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:16 pm

BuddyRaton wrote:The BBK is much more about torque than it is top end. Unless you are going to get more rpms you are not going to get more top end.

I put a BBK on a 125, opened airbox, 26mm carb,NCY pipe and stock head. I'm not convinved that the Big Head makes any difference. You can't get more fuel through the valves than is coming out of the carb.

With the stock head this thing will wheelie right out from under you if not careful.

Yeah, I gotta lean forward if I take off quick cause of the wheelies, too

I've heard from both sides on top end. Even though its more on the upside. Still hard to believe it can't go as fast as before. I'm not looking to be.a speed racer, just 10/15 more MPH. And a lot of people swear by how you're jetting the carb. Never heard anything bad about the stock Buddy carb.

Christophers · Post by **Christophers** » Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:15 am

BuddyRaton wrote: Modified airbox. Pulled the baffel and opened it up

Can you please post some pics of the modification?

I don't completely understand where the baffle that you removed is located or what it normally does.

After removing the baffle does all of the air entering the carburetor still pass through the filter? Removing the baffle doesn't allow unfiltered air to enter the intake manifold, does it?

On a stock bike what is the purpose of the baffle?

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:27 am

DIY: Performance Airbox mod

viewtopic.php?t=11141&highlight=air+box+mod

Please remember to research what your mod is actually going to do.
And to quote Kaos

You're replacing 1/2 of your motor to do this upgrade. If you've never done this before you probably shouldn't try now!

And to quote me. Modding isn't for everyone. If you get into modding your motor don't be surprised if you blow one up

Christophers · Post by **Christophers** » Sat Aug 24, 2013 4:29 am

BuddyRaton wrote:DIY: Performance Airbox mod

viewtopic.php?t=11141&highlight=air+box+mod

Nice thread! Thanks for pointing it out.

So how are you jetted with your set-up? (Your set-up = Buddy 125 BBK to 161cc, 26mm carb, NCY pipe, stock head, stock fuel intake manifold, air box modification)

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Sat Aug 24, 2013 2:34 pm

I'll have to find my notes on the jetting. It's been awhile so they are buried somewhere.

Rusty Shackleford · Post by **Rusty Shackleford** » Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:11 am

The most cost-effective, safest mod I know of, by far, to accelerate quicker, go faster, have more torque on hills, etc is the "sell your bike and buy something bigger" mod.

But in all seriousness, best of luck, though. AFR tuning: A win for EFI over carb

wheelbender6 · Post by **wheelbender6** » Sun Aug 25, 2013 1:33 pm

Right Rusty, but we want to have it all. We want the agility and portability of a 125cc scooter with the top speed of a maxi scooter.

Rusty Shackleford · Post by **Rusty Shackleford** » Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:31 am

Everybody wants a Vespa GTS for $3000, ha! Even me

donajgra · Post by **donajgra** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:15 am

Put in a hot cam. You already did the head, it just keeps your valves open a little longer. It will rev higher, but you will go faster. Works great with the big head. Did you scoot start with a 102 jet?

http://www.scooterworks.com/ncy-perform ... h1s-mt5mSM

Throwback7R · Post by **Throwback7R** » Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:41 am

I have that cam.. Also i would be careful of a different cam on the 125 due to the different amount of teeth on the cam " From what I have read"

I am looking at doing the A9 or 12 Just different duration on the valves.

rick71454 · Post by **rick71454** » Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:45 pm

Hello TommyRed:

With the install of my 161 BBK on my Buddy 125, the results I got are exactly what you got: More power and low top end speed.

I agree with Rusty Schackleford: your not likely to get more top end speed even with a bigger head. The 150 goes faster not only because it has more power than a 125, but because of the 150 has a different and higher gear ratio than the 125. This is confirmed to me by the parts manager at Genuine in Chicago........

Rick71454

SonnyD · Post by **SonnyD** » Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:23 pm

Rusty Shackleford wrote:The most cost-effective, safest mod I know of, by far, to accelerate quicker, go faster, have more torque on hills, etc is the "sell your bike and buy something bigger" mod.

But in all seriousness, best of luck, though. AFR tuning: A win for EFI over carb

I believe you nailed it my Friend.....I know it's kind of fun to try and extract the last bit of HP out of anything...or the last mph.... but sometimes it's best to just Enjoy, and when it no longer satisfies, buy something bigger...

rick71454 · Post by **rick71454** » Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:34 pm

Hello SonnyD:

I agree with Rusty Shackleford and you.................

to get a Buddy 125 to go faster is more money spent than worthwhile. I know people like to tinker.

I know because I got a Buddy 125 and I did many of the mods people discuss here and not any faster is my Buddee.

Just get a scooter with a bigger engine my Buddeez in BuddyLand..............safer idea anyway!!

Thanks
Rick71454

tommyred · Post by **tommyred** » Thu Oct 17, 2013 1:35 pm

Well, I got the NCY big valve head, NCY oil cooler, Dr. Pulley variator kit with 12g sliders all installed. Carb has a 105 main jet, and I got the extra MPH I was looking for. All I wanted was to hit the speed limit, and it's a go. After two tanks of gas, I'm still getting almost 80 MPG. Now I got my lean, mean, black & red machine

rick71454 · Post by **rick71454** » Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:20 pm

Hello Tommyred:

What was your speed before these modifications? Is this speed MPH Actual Speed, or is it what is referred to as BMPH Buddy Speed?

Thanks
Rick71454

tommyred · Post by **tommyred** » Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:29 pm

Previous speed was 55/60, and now i hit 65, but didn't try for more. Gonna take it easy for the first few hundred miles.

And all speeds are GPS speeds.

My Buddy is 5MPH off up to 40, and up to 10 MPH off after 50.

It was strong off the line before, and seems even stronger now.

rick71454 · Post by **rick71454** » Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:41 pm

Hello Tommyred:

Thanks for your response. I noticed you got a Buddy 125 & 150. For clarification, these modifications are on the Buddy 125 right?

I think we all know that a 100LBS person would likely take a scooter to higher speeds as compared to a 200LBs person on the same scooter.
May we know how much you weigh?

Thanks
Rick71454

tommyred · Post by **tommyred** » Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:06 am

It's the Buddy 125. And I just put on some poundage, so I come in at a svelte 235! Not for long though

And I didn't realize while riding it this weekend, but I had about 40lbs of tools in the top case. So that's 275lbs. Thing got some torque, too, let me tell ya, and once I saw it hit 63, I backed off. Wanna take it easy on the first few hundred miles or so. I even went up a wicked steep hill down the street which I usually slow down to 35 by the top, and today I climbed right up no sweat at 50 BMPH.

brianwheelies · Post by **brianwheelies** » Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:22 am

If you want the full performance potential of mods you can't limit the parts you are adding. Example: getting a big valve head that can flow more fuel and air without getting a larger carb and cam to let everything breathe to their potential(s).

Carb, cam, and requisite rear end gears to work with your new found power and the bike will scream.

Does the big valve head have any port work?

tommyred · Post by **tommyred** » Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:33 am

Nope, no work done to the head. And so far the stock carb has been doing fine. I've heard many times to leave the stock carb, cause it's a good one. Even my mechanic, Robot down Motorsports, a man who knows his stuff, says ithe stock one does a good job. Found out that a girl I know had the same thing done to her Buddy (minus the Dr. pulley kit), 20,000 miles ago

Modern Buddy

Big Valve Head

Big Valve Head

Re: Big Valve Head

Re: Big Valve Head

More speed

All Done