Hooligan 170i
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Hooligan 170i
I talked to a Genuine dealer last week (Burton Motorsports in Suquamish, WA) and among other things, he confirmed that Genuine was going to drop a 170i engine into the Roughouse 50 frame and call it a "Hooligan". He says the Genuine rep. told him that Genuine's marketing research indicated that potential male buyers prefer a more masculine looking scooter than the traditional Buddy style hence the new "Hooligan" Roughouse super-macho look. So, are we going to have a gender crisis here? The gals for the Buddy and the guys for the more macho Hooligan? Personally, I'm OK with my Buddy 170i's look but I have been thinking of painting a male face with a 5 day growth of beard on her front cowling. Excuse me, I meant his front cowling!
Bill in Seattle
'12 170i Italia
'11 220i Blur
Bill in Seattle
'12 170i Italia
'11 220i Blur
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Re: Hooligan 170i
I refer to my Buddy as "he". I would do so even if he were pink. And I'm secure enough about my masculinity to ride a 50cc Buddy. (To say nothing about my love life. )skipper20 wrote:So, are we going to have a gender crisis here? The gals for the Buddy and the guys for the more macho Hooligan? Personally, I'm OK with my Buddy 170i's look but I have been thinking of painting a male face with a 5 day growth of beard on her front cowling. Excuse me, I meant his front cowling!
But I think it's a fine idea for Genuine to produce a more stereotypically masculine styled/named scooter for those who need a little help in that area.
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- Dooglas
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Previous thread on this -
topic25996.html
Plus a link to what may be the "donor" PGO model -
http://www.pgo-scooter.com/products_inf ... 3326153c03
topic25996.html
Plus a link to what may be the "donor" PGO model -
http://www.pgo-scooter.com/products_inf ... 3326153c03
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If it is the X-Hot with a 170 motor I will not consider it. I think it looks fugly.Dooglas wrote:Previous thread on this -
topic25996.html
Plus a link to what may be the "donor" PGO model -
http://www.pgo-scooter.com/products_inf ... 3326153c03
Here's to hoping it stays Roughhouse!
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The "J-Bubu" is a redesign of the original PGO Bubu using new plastic. The Buddy WAS identical to the original Bubu. Ligero is a name used in some European markets.Drum Pro wrote:All this time I thought the Buddys here were the J-BuBu but it turns out they are the Ligero. I wouldn't mind a J-BuBu 170I though....
http://www.bikez.com/motorcycles/pgo_bubu_125_2008.php
http://www.pgo-scooter.com/news_info.ph ... be7bb2ec80
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Thanks for that....Dooglas wrote:The "J-Bubu" is a redesign of the original PGO Bubu using new plastic. The Buddy WAS identical to the original Bubu. Ligero is a name used in some European markets.Drum Pro wrote:All this time I thought the Buddys here were the J-BuBu but it turns out they are the Ligero. I wouldn't mind a J-BuBu 170I though....
http://www.bikez.com/motorcycles/pgo_bubu_125_2008.php
http://www.pgo-scooter.com/news_info.ph ... be7bb2ec80
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- OldGuy
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Interesting. Looks like PGO B2 "face" (lights) with PGO B1 front fender. And that front fender is exactly what I would have wanted. I like!
1971 Hodaka Ace 100
1977 Suzuki GT250 is now sold... Good bike!
1980 Yamaha IT125
Honda: '66 CT90 KO; '83 CT110; '92 CT70; 2001 XR250
and 1 or 2 others... I need to sell some bikes!
1977 Suzuki GT250 is now sold... Good bike!
1980 Yamaha IT125
Honda: '66 CT90 KO; '83 CT110; '92 CT70; 2001 XR250
and 1 or 2 others... I need to sell some bikes!
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I am doing a piece for ScooterFile now on the Hooligan and other new Genuines. There are some interesting things in the photo. I don't think this is the production version. It's probably the one they brought over for EPA and CARB testing.
Eric // LA Scooter Meetup Group // Stella 4T // Vespa LX // Vespa LXS // Honda Helix // some, uh, projects…
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ericalm wrote:I am doing a piece for ScooterFile now on the Hooligan and other new Genuines. There are some interesting things in the photo. I don't think this is the production version. It's probably the one they brought over for EPA and CARB testing.
Plural other new Genuines, or just Hooligan and Stellato?
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- agrogod
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Oh Nelly do I like what I see. Now if a new Genuine dealer would be so kind as to open near my area, I would be able to see one in person when its finally released for US sales.
Big plus'es here, HID lights, and luggage hooks. Not that you can't add these to your own machine, but the integrated look is so much better.
Big plus'es here, HID lights, and luggage hooks. Not that you can't add these to your own machine, but the integrated look is so much better.
"When your mouth is yapping your arms stop flapping, get to work" - a quote from my father R.I.P..
always start with the simple, it may end up costing you little to nothing
always start with the simple, it may end up costing you little to nothing
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Eric, please let us know when your ScooterFile article is available to us.
I attached a flyer I found online. Hope it is usable!
I notice the prototype has slim turn signals, probably LED; as they can't stay with the integrated signals the scoot already had. This would be a better choice than adding the bulbous Roughhouse-style signals.
I also noticed that the central handlebar area seems to be encased with plastic, and the speedometer housing looks to be a different shape from the X-Hot. If this is true, I suspect we won't get the cool handlebars or X-Hot digital display. However... To me it looks like the PGO B1 handlebar / display unit, which is also very nice. I can live with that! (B1 Display photo attached.)
So, according to the photos, Genuine is rummaging through the PGO parts bins to come up with a B1/B2 morph for us. I am very interested to learn more!
I attached a flyer I found online. Hope it is usable!
I notice the prototype has slim turn signals, probably LED; as they can't stay with the integrated signals the scoot already had. This would be a better choice than adding the bulbous Roughhouse-style signals.
I also noticed that the central handlebar area seems to be encased with plastic, and the speedometer housing looks to be a different shape from the X-Hot. If this is true, I suspect we won't get the cool handlebars or X-Hot digital display. However... To me it looks like the PGO B1 handlebar / display unit, which is also very nice. I can live with that! (B1 Display photo attached.)
So, according to the photos, Genuine is rummaging through the PGO parts bins to come up with a B1/B2 morph for us. I am very interested to learn more!
- Attachments
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- Hooligan 170i.pdf
- (161.07 KiB) Downloaded 62 times
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- B1 Display.jpg (9.69 KiB) Viewed 2891 times
1971 Hodaka Ace 100
1977 Suzuki GT250 is now sold... Good bike!
1980 Yamaha IT125
Honda: '66 CT90 KO; '83 CT110; '92 CT70; 2001 XR250
and 1 or 2 others... I need to sell some bikes!
1977 Suzuki GT250 is now sold... Good bike!
1980 Yamaha IT125
Honda: '66 CT90 KO; '83 CT110; '92 CT70; 2001 XR250
and 1 or 2 others... I need to sell some bikes!
- ericalm
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Here's the article on the new Genuines:
http://www.scooterfile.com/oems/genuine ... d-reality/
The Hooligan is as much Libra (B1) as X-Hot (B2), basically the same scoot with different panels. Underneath, though, it may not be exactly the same as the Buddy 170i!
Much cleaner than the long-stalk signals on the Hooligan in the Scooterworks photo and the flyer PDF. Note that neither have any badges, so they're probably not the final production versions.
I'm thinking it'll have the Libra dash.
http://www.scooterfile.com/oems/genuine ... d-reality/
The Hooligan is as much Libra (B1) as X-Hot (B2), basically the same scoot with different panels. Underneath, though, it may not be exactly the same as the Buddy 170i!
Here's what the Libra rear end looks like:ScooterFile.com wrote:Genuine dealer Scooterworks Chicago posted a photo of the Hooligan to their Facebook page last week. While definitely not the overseas version of the X-Hot, it may be a pre-production Hooligan imported for testing (meaning not the final components and trim). Some of the body styling is picked up from the PGO Libra — the solid, heavier grab bar than the X-Hot’s, the streamlined rear panels, the smoother front fender that wraps around the sides of the front forks. The DOT-compliant turn signals under the handlebars appear to be LEDs. There are fold-out passenger footpegs, which don’t appear on either PGO model. The rear turn signals are mounted on long stalks. Those signals may be one likely change in the production version; we may get something similar to what’s on the Libra.
Much cleaner than the long-stalk signals on the Hooligan in the Scooterworks photo and the flyer PDF. Note that neither have any badges, so they're probably not the final production versions.
Don't be surprised if there are a few more surprises in the Hooligan. It's going to be more than a Buddy 170i stuffed into an X-Hot. We already know it's got better suspension and brakes, more pet carrier storage, better fuel economy. But, on the "rumor" side, the Hooligan may have different gearing, different transmission tuning and even a different fuel injection setup.ScooterFile.com wrote:We’re not sure if it will sport the X-Hot or Libra dash, but both have an analog/LCD combination that includes a tachometer — a first for an automatic Genuine. There’s been scuttlebutt about a number of other differences from the PGOs and US Buddys, including gearing and the fuel injection system.
I'm thinking it'll have the Libra dash.
Eric // LA Scooter Meetup Group // Stella 4T // Vespa LX // Vespa LXS // Honda Helix // some, uh, projects…
- Dooglas
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Alexbv200 wrote:Comes in Matte Army Green and matte Black.
I'm with you. We are talking about a scooter with some "rough road" or off road capability. How about some bright colors? Orange, yellow, red, whatever. Why do all importers think Americans want dull looking rides with matte paint?Wolfhound wrote:Like the design but not the colors.
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- OldGuy
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Yes, let's get some color in there! Between Black and Olive Green, I'll take Black please. But would prefer Red, Blue, Yellow, White... Or a lot of other choices.
Maybe if this sells well they'll bring in more colors next year.
Maybe if this sells well they'll bring in more colors next year.
1971 Hodaka Ace 100
1977 Suzuki GT250 is now sold... Good bike!
1980 Yamaha IT125
Honda: '66 CT90 KO; '83 CT110; '92 CT70; 2001 XR250
and 1 or 2 others... I need to sell some bikes!
1977 Suzuki GT250 is now sold... Good bike!
1980 Yamaha IT125
Honda: '66 CT90 KO; '83 CT110; '92 CT70; 2001 XR250
and 1 or 2 others... I need to sell some bikes!
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Would love some olive green
I guess I'm the contrarian... a scooter with muscular styling in flat olive green sounds freaking awesome to me
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I'd prefer the integrated rear signals. I have the 85 Honda 150 and the rear signals keep getting knocked off because they stick out. My 87 with integrated lights never had a problem with this. Epoxy can only do so much.
Love the front fender.
Wonder if panels will be interchangeable like the buddy, especially the front panel.
I would give up both my Hondas for the Hooligan if the seat and ergos are as comfortable.
Love the front fender.
Wonder if panels will be interchangeable like the buddy, especially the front panel.
I would give up both my Hondas for the Hooligan if the seat and ergos are as comfortable.
Just because I am Deaf ... does not mean I can't roar.
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Re: Hooligan 170i
Quick Clarification: We confirmed the Hooligan will indeed have a 170i engine - GREAT NEWS. And although the styling would be more like the Roughhouse, it's incorrect that it's a Roughhouse with a 170 dropped in. This is a completely new & exciting machine with a totally different chassis. As for whether your scoot is a boy or a girl, the Buddy is loved by all & we expect the Hooligan will be too. Because of the longer wheel base, however, some men (typically with taller inseams) may appreciate the more generous legroom on the Hooligan. We encourage you to check out the specs on Genuine's website!
skipper20 wrote:I talked to a Genuine dealer last week (Burton Motorsports in Suquamish, WA) and among other things, he confirmed that Genuine was going to drop a 170i engine into the Roughouse 50 frame and call it a "Hooligan". He says the Genuine rep. told him that Genuine's marketing research indicated that potential male buyers prefer a more masculine looking scooter than the traditional Buddy style hence the new "Hooligan" Roughouse super-macho look. So, are we going to have a gender crisis here? The gals for the Buddy and the guys for the more macho Hooligan? Personally, I'm OK with my Buddy 170i's look but I have been thinking of painting a male face with a 5 day growth of beard on her front cowling. Excuse me, I meant his front cowling!
Bill in Seattle
'12 170i Italia
'11 220i Blur
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All of the official specs aren't out yet, so as a dealer we can't confirm exact measurements. However, the wheelbase of the Hooligan will be about 2 inches longer and the overall length will be about 6 inches longer (versus the Buddy). Genuine will be announcing the official specs in the coming months, so stay tuned!
Mcanaves wrote:I don't yet see any info on the genuine website regarding the specs of the Hooligan. Care to direct me towards it, Burton?
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SYM 200 EVO - 171.2 ccWolfhound wrote:Quick answer. to determine horsepower divide the CCs given by 16. In this case the Buddy 170i has 168.9 CCs divided by 16 equals 10.56 hp.
Following your formula, HP should be 10.69
Alliance Powersports, the distributor of the SYM 200 EVO has listed on their website for the HD200 15.3 HP @ 8000 rpm.
Just because I am Deaf ... does not mean I can't roar.
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Todd, I got my formula on line from a formula shown for figuring automotive
conversion of CCs to HP. I will double check. In researching my antique Honda CB400A I have found published HPs from 24 to 30 hp for it. Dont think that Genuine shows a HP rating. Could be that SYM is a bit optimistic. I will look
further thois evening.
conversion of CCs to HP. I will double check. In researching my antique Honda CB400A I have found published HPs from 24 to 30 hp for it. Dont think that Genuine shows a HP rating. Could be that SYM is a bit optimistic. I will look
further thois evening.
Growing old is inevitible, being old is not.
So be your self. Every one else is already taken!
So be your self. Every one else is already taken!
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All CCs are not created equal. This formula makes no sense. There's a lot of factors that determine how much power an engine will make beyond displacement. Just another example here: Using the formula you found, A 2000cc Honda S2000 should make 125hp when in fact it actually produces 240hp.Wolfhound wrote:Todd, I got my formula on line from a formula shown for figuring automotive
conversion of CCs to HP. I will double check. In researching my antique Honda CB400A I have found published HPs from 24 to 30 hp for it. Dont think that Genuine shows a HP rating. Could be that SYM is a bit optimistic. I will look
further thois evening.
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JRStone, you are correct. Did some deeper investigation and found that there
are as many answers to the question and ultimately most are questionable.
For example: there is no relation. CCs are determined by volumn, HPs are determined by torque. And another: CCs do not directly correspond with HP
And perhaps the best: CCs only relate to size of motor, not the HP. There is
no true formula to measure by the perimeters.
The spec sheet for my TGB Laser R(i 150 cc scooter says that it creates 10.1 HP st 7500 rpm and has displacement of 151.1cc
are as many answers to the question and ultimately most are questionable.
For example: there is no relation. CCs are determined by volumn, HPs are determined by torque. And another: CCs do not directly correspond with HP
And perhaps the best: CCs only relate to size of motor, not the HP. There is
no true formula to measure by the perimeters.
The spec sheet for my TGB Laser R(i 150 cc scooter says that it creates 10.1 HP st 7500 rpm and has displacement of 151.1cc
Growing old is inevitible, being old is not.
So be your self. Every one else is already taken!
So be your self. Every one else is already taken!
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Another horsepower issue: cooling.
The simple fan-forced air cooling used on these bikes puts a pretty hard upper limit as to how much power (and therefore, waste heat) the engine can produce.
At about 180 cc displacement you start hitting diminishing returns and liquid-cooling (water or oil or both) becomes worth the added complexity over a fan-forced air system.
The simple fan-forced air cooling used on these bikes puts a pretty hard upper limit as to how much power (and therefore, waste heat) the engine can produce.
At about 180 cc displacement you start hitting diminishing returns and liquid-cooling (water or oil or both) becomes worth the added complexity over a fan-forced air system.