fuel injection for 125 automatic

[Elder Scoot]

I've read that the Stella 126 automatic is equipped with electronic fuel-injection through a 24mm Dell’Orto throttle body. Is the T4 similarly equipped?

[Elder Scoot]

Did some research on my own - the 4T 150 is equipped with a carb.

[az_slynch]

Yes, the 150 4T has a 18mm Mikuni carb. The Star 4T 200 (overseas only) has fuel injection. I wish we'd get the 200er, but I believe it'll never make it here through normal channels.

Grey market import and re-badge as a Stella, anyone?

[Elder Scoot]

In reviews I've read the 125 automatic is faster than the 150 4T. I believe fuel injection is responsible for the performance edge.

[Tipper]

None of the Lml models are fuel injected. Lml were developing an injected 200 but it barely made it past the drawing board before they shelved the idea.

The autos have 'electronic carbs' and although I havnt ridden one myself I have heard they are pretty nippy. There are a couple of videos on YouTube of an lml auto 125 wiping the floor with a px 125.

[Elder Scoot]

None of the Lml models are fuel injected. Lml were developing an injected 200 but it barely made it past the drawing board before they shelved the idea.

The autos have 'electronic carbs' and although I havnt ridden one myself I have heard they are pretty nippy. There are a couple of videos on YouTube of an lml auto 125 wiping the floor with a px 125.

Tipper - thanks for the information. An electronic carb is new technology to me in a scooter so that is why I assumed it was fuel injected.

[misterbrackets]

Yes, the 150 4T has a 18mm Mikuni carb. The Star 4T 200 (overseas only) has fuel injection. I wish we'd get the 200er, but I believe it'll never make it here through normal channels.

Grey market import and re-badge as a Stella, anyone?

I wonder if the 200cc motor would fit in a 150 4T Stella frame. According to this, the 200cc motor also fits the 125 4T frame:
http://www.scooter-center.com/product/3 ... cc?lang=en

[fisher1]

Tipper - thanks for the information. An electronic carb is new technology to me in a scooter so that is why I assumed it was fuel injected.

I'd appreciate it if someone would explain what makes an electronic carb different than a regular one ..... what functions do the electronics perform? Thanks.

[az_slynch]

I'd suppose that the electronics are supposed to aid the efficiency and/or emissions reduction of the carburetor. It's nothing new, though. My '83 Riva has an electrically assisted carburetor (Mikuni BS28). The carb is tied to several solenoids via vacuum lines which control the cold start circuit and interface with the main jet vacuum circuit. There's also an anti-backfire valve and a thermal-fan control for keeping it from vaporizing the fuel in the float bowl. As electronically assisted carbs go, this system is rather complex and often leads owners to replace the carb with something simpler.

More recently, I've seen an electronically assisted carburetor on a '06 Honda Big Ruckus. Not sure how invasive the electronics are, but it does have a throttle position sensor on it. The Big Ruckus carb was much easier to clean and rebuild than the Riva carb was, though.

[jimmbomb]

I'd suppose that the electronics are supposed to aid the efficiency and/or emissions reduction of the carburetor. It's nothing new, though. My '83 Riva has an electrically assisted carburetor (Mikuni BS28). The carb is tied to several solenoids via vacuum lines which control the cold start circuit and interface with the main jet vacuum circuit. There's also an anti-backfire valve and a thermal-fan control for keeping it from vaporizing the fuel in the float bowl. As electronically assisted carbs go, this system is rather complex and often leads owners to replace the carb with something simpler.

More recently, I've seen an electronically assisted carburetor on a '06 Honda Big Ruckus. Not sure how invasive the electronics are, but it does have a throttle position sensor on it. The Big Ruckus carb was much easier to clean and rebuild than the Riva carb was, though.

A-z lynch sure knows his carb stuff!!! Hey a-z... did you ever figure out that 4t carb that you got from me???

[jimmbomb]

I'd suppose that the electronics are supposed to aid the efficiency and/or emissions reduction of the carburetor. It's nothing new, though. My '83 Riva has an electrically assisted carburetor (Mikuni BS28). The carb is tied to several solenoids via vacuum lines which control the cold start circuit and interface with the main jet vacuum circuit. There's also an anti-backfire valve and a thermal-fan control for keeping it from vaporizing the fuel in the float bowl. As electronically assisted carbs go, this system is rather complex and often leads owners to replace the carb with something simpler.

More recently, I've seen an electronically assisted carburetor on a '06 Honda Big Ruckus. Not sure how invasive the electronics are, but it does have a throttle position sensor on it. The Big Ruckus carb was much easier to clean and rebuild than the Riva carb was, though.

A-z lynch sure knows his carb stuff!!! Hey a-z... did you ever figure out that 4t carb that you got from me???

[Tipper]

I'd appreciate it if someone would explain what makes an electronic carb different than a regular one ..... what functions do the electronics perform? Thanks.

Robby is you man for this,apparently they are fitted to some pre-injection Honda bikes.

[Robbie]

Tipper - thanks for the information. An electronic carb is new technology to me in a scooter so that is why I assumed it was fuel injected.

I'd appreciate it if someone would explain what makes an electronic carb different than a regular one ..... what functions do the electronics perform? Thanks.

It is a fairly simple setup.
The carburetor has a variable voltage sending unit that reads position of the throttle shaft.
The machines that have these also have a electronic control module for engine management.
The throttle position, ambient temperature, engine temperature, manifold vacuum are the basic information gatherers.
This is generally used to advance/retard ignition timing, allowing the ecm to continually maintain timing at its maximum based on throttle position and manifold vacuum.
These are the primary sources to assist the module in determining load at that moment.

All this helps to achieve maximum acceleration when called for but maximum fuel mileage when cruising.

The TPS based systems were first found in automiles beginning around 1980.
As mentioned, the technology has been used on various other Japanese bikes since the mid eighties......so it is a well proven design.

Help any?
Rob

[fisher1]

It is a fairly simple setup.
The carburetor has a variable voltage sending unit that reads position of the throttle shaft.
The machines that have these also have a electronic control module for engine management.
The throttle position, ambient temperature, engine temperature, manifold vacuum are the basic information gatherers.
This is generally used to advance/retard ignition timing, allowing the ecm to continually maintain timing at its maximum based on throttle position and manifold vacuum.
These are the primary sources to assist the module in determining load at that moment.

All this helps to achieve maximum acceleration when called for but maximum fuel mileage when cruising.

The TPS based systems were first found in automiles beginning around 1980.
As mentioned, the technology has been used on various other Japanese bikes since the mid eighties......so it is a well proven design.

Help any?
Rob

Bingo !!! Ignition timing & advance input - Yep, that helps a lot ! Am I right that it (or their FI counterparts) would also be inputs to the more sophisticated types of CVTs ....... I work part time at a Subaru dealership and when driving their cars with CVTs it's obvious that there's a lot of stuff and interfacing to determine their transmission ratios.

[Elder Scoot]

Tipper - thanks for the information. An electronic carb is new technology to me in a scooter so that is why I assumed it was fuel injected.

I'd appreciate it if someone would explain what makes an electronic carb different than a regular one ..... what functions do the electronics perform? Thanks.

It is a fairly simple setup.
The carburetor has a variable voltage sending unit that reads position of the throttle shaft.
The machines that have these also have a electronic control module for engine management.
The throttle position, ambient temperature, engine temperature, manifold vacuum are the basic information gatherers.
This is generally used to advance/retard ignition timing, allowing the ecm to continually maintain timing at its maximum based on throttle position and manifold vacuum.
These are the primary sources to assist the module in determining load at that moment.

All this helps to achieve maximum acceleration when called for but maximum fuel mileage when cruising.

The TPS based systems were first found in automiles beginning around 1980.
As mentioned, the technology has been used on various other Japanese bikes since the mid eighties......so it is a well proven design.

Help any?
Rob

Tipper is right Robbie - You are the man!

[Robbie]

Well gee.......
How about something a bit more suttle.....like you can tell I've been around the block a few times, heh heh.

Regarding the Subi CVT.......on the automotive side, yes indeed, this powertrain info is being used to maximize the driveability and potental operating economy......about the same as Nissan.
But, to go further, just about all autoboxes, be they CVT or conventional or DCT have been using the ECM (now known as the PCM or P.owertrain C.ontrol M.odule) to make all powertrain control decisions.

As far as the CVT found on scooters.....no electronic controls and truthfully, none required......yet.......evidently there s not enouph potental operating improvement to justify the complexity and expense.

Rob

[Elder Scoot]

Well gee.......
How about something a bit more suttle.....like you can tell I've been around the block a few times, heh heh.

Regarding the Subi CVT.......on the automotive side, yes indeed, this powertrain info is being used to maximize the driveability and potental operating economy......about the same as Nissan.
But, to go further, just about all autoboxes, be they CVT or conventional or DCT have been using the ECM (now known as the PCM or P.owertrain C.ontrol M.odule) to make all powertrain control decisions.

As far as the CVT found on scooters.....no electronic controls and truthfully, none required......yet.......evidently there s not enouph potental operating improvement to justify the complexity and expense.

Rob

I believe that the Burgman 650 has a electronically controlled transmission.

[Robbie]

Well gee.......
How about something a bit more suttle.....like you can tell I've been around the block a few times, heh heh.

Regarding the Subi CVT.......on the automotive side, yes indeed, this powertrain info is being used to maximize the driveability and potental operating economy......about the same as Nissan.
But, to go further, just about all autoboxes, be they CVT or conventional or DCT have been using the ECM (now known as the PCM or P.owertrain C.ontrol M.odule) to make all powertrain control decisions.

As far as the CVT found on scooters.....no electronic controls and truthfully, none required......yet.......evidently there s not enouph potental operating improvement to justify the complexity and expense.

Rob

I believe that the Burgman 650 has a electronically controlled transmission.

Forgot about that one but what little info I can gather looks like a electronically controlled event is taking place in the final drive.....like it is actually changing final drive ratio through a gear change.
Somebody maybe has a better description than I can find.

Rob