anyone using 15w-40 for Buddy 125/150 & what brand oil?

kmrcstintn · Post by **kmrcstintn** » Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:37 am

I have a Buddy 125 & owner's manual says to use SAE 15w-40 oil for engine...does anyone actually use 15w-40 oil and if so, what brand? thanks

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:30 am

I was told recently this is the "wrong" oil so now am confused? It's what it says in my owners manual for my Agility 125, also. And its what I use for it

I must admit to not even checking for the Buddy 150 I tend to because it has had just two oil changes. When I called the dealer before the first one he said "10w40 is fine."

This was during break in though? I would like to know, myself.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:28 pm

Break-in is less about viscosity and more about dino vs. synthetic. The first couple of rounds should be dino, as synthetic is too slippery to allow the slight intentional wear of the cylinder and piston rings needed to form the best compression seal. After that, synthetic is a great idea.

I'm running Motul 7100 full synthetic, 10W40 based on my dealer's recommendation.

Tocsik · Post by **Tocsik** » Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:43 pm

I run 10w-40 in cooler months and just (last night) put in 15w-40 for the Spring/Summer.
I have used Mobil1, Motul, Motorex, Castol RS Racing 4T Motorcycle oil (cuz they had it cheap at WalMart) and switched to Royal Purple at 22,000 miles.

My shop uses 15w-40 Motul scooter oil. I can get Royal Purple without having to ride downtown to Sportique and I haven't seen Motul in that weight at any of the MC shops up my way.

k1dude · Post by **k1dude** » Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:46 pm

I use Rotella T Synthetic in 5W-40 from Walmart. It's inexpensive and has a much better temperature range than 15W-40.

kmrcstintn · Post by **kmrcstintn** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:57 am

I did an oil change yesterday and used Pennzoil Gold 15w-40...I'll see how it does for 1000-1500 miles; I think in the long term that conventional 10w-40 and 2000 oil change intervals will work good; I'm looking at Kendall GT-1 conventional with Liquid Titanium antiwear additive for future oil changes; I just can't see paying $9 to $10 per quart of synthetic when I won't double the service interval to 4000 miles between oil changes...

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:51 am

Got to love the oil threads

The discussion of various weights, and synth vs dino is truly riveting.

As for myself I am using dino for my Agility for several thousand miles now, Shell Rotella T 15w40. When the engine blew at 3000 miles I was using full synthetic so make of that what you wish. But that engine was never right from the start tbh. So it wasn't an oil related failure.

So my experience with this is limited. But here is what some people say about synth that I have read from experienced owners:

It increases power and top end 3-5%
It helps engines run cooler
Change intervals increased (or decreased depends if your glass is half full or empty

)
Reduces wear / burning
May cause "seepage" as it is super slippery and doesn't "muck up" gaskets and seals which may actually help clog leak points. Some people say they switched to synth and got leaks

The major dino oil used for scoots and bikes is Shell Rotella T Diesel oil intended for big diesel engines and heavy equipment and tractors. Like regular oil this is full of additives meant to keep things clean and prevent sludge, but even more so. Seems folks started using this in cycles because its not "energy conserving" so lacks an ingredient / process that would cause clutch slippage. So guys were just like "pour some of that tractor oil in the Harley, Skeeter."

Well Skeeter did and never stopped. Now the oil has been "certified" as motorcycle oil and good 'ol boys near 'n far put it in the Harley, tractor, Camaro, the little lady's scooter and even the family pick up!

They say things just run and run with it. What they claim

Super detergents keep things clean
Has more good stuff for engines in it then synth
Keeps engines clean
Helps prevent leaks
Doesn't break down easily / high heat tolerance
If it can handle diesel engines turning 30,000rpms, don't you think it can handle your bike?
Cheap as dirt
It works so if it ain't broke why pay more

This is what I have read and heard.

Raiderfn311 · Post by **Raiderfn311** » Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:57 pm

Motul 7100 10w40.

kmrcstintn · Post by **kmrcstintn** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:45 pm

got some Amsoil product from my local Genuine shop; wanted 10w-40 synthetic scooter oil (they had it in stock for $8.30/qt) but they ran out, so we struck a deal for some 5w-40 synthetic diesel oil for $9.00/qt after a nominal discount...my final decision; might stretch oil change interval to 3000 or 3250 or 3500 miles

Raiderfn311 · Post by **Raiderfn311** » Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:55 pm

I wouldnt stretch it beyond 3000 miles myself, especially since it going to be getting hot, but thats up to you. Good call getting the synth.

Grant H · Post by **Grant H** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:17 am

I personally dont think that using a much better oil is substitute for less frequent oil changes.

mhardgrove · Post by **mhardgrove** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:54 pm

Using Vavoline 10w40 ATV oil currently. For those of you using synthetic, that's fine, but if you change oil seasonally or at manafacturers intervals there is absolutely nothing wrong in Dino based oils. Most oils today have similar or even the same detergent pachages, the only difference is man made oils have "synthetic" bases where dino is T-Rex juice.

I changed oil for years, had some ppl think you can throw synthetic in and drive forever, but once the detergent is spent and oil looses its viscosity it blows their engines. Had a guy threaten to sue me because his last oil change was over 4 years earlier with synthetic and had put nearly 50,000 miles on it. When i pulled the dipstick it looked like antisieze with all the metal from where the oil lost all ability to protect the engine. On the flip side, had one customer that used our cheapest oil "super tech" and came in at exactly 2,500 miles for her piece of mind and it was as clean as when I poured it in. What I'm getting at is if you do regular maintance use either, but there is nothing saying you "must" use synthetic.

Now, considering you need only to purchase a quart, I'm going to switch over to a 10w40 synthetic after 1,500-2,000 miles.

Gin · Post by **Gin** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:44 am

Another vote for Shell Rotella. Great stuff. Great price (buy it at Walmart). Use it in all my scoots (okay, so I have too many scoots).

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 5:04 am

Raiderfn311 wrote:Motul 7100 10w40.

A good oil.

velobuff · Post by **velobuff** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:17 pm

I use Shell Rotella from Walmart.

Some of the super expensive oils are made for (and more expensive because) motorcycles that use wet clutch systems. Most, if not all, scooters (exception of the new Piaggio BV and others) don't have wet clutch systems so you're literally buying something more expensive than you need if you're putting in something "better".

Really, all that's needed is oil that meets the specification in your service manual. I figure the engineers that are smart enough to design my engine know better than me or the marketing folks at [insert name of oil company that doesn't make their own oil here].

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:07 pm

shell rotella t or comparable here, 15w40. in my Agility. in the BJ? not enough miles so its w/e the dealer has poured in. 10w40 dino, me thinks?

anyway good dino seems good enough at $3 a quart and 1500-2000 mile intervals. diesel dino, that is. at least diesel for me. right now i use Castrol Tection Extra. it was cheapest on sale last time so got the call!

kmrcstintn · Post by **kmrcstintn** » Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:42 pm

during all my hemming & hawing, I bought something different I got on sale and recently did an oil change with it...Honda HP4M 10w-40 motorcycle oil (synthetic blend with moly); just wanted to update the thread...

ggs34 · Post by **ggs34** » Mon May 19, 2014 11:04 pm

i have four scooters in our garage. but the all should use different oil why?

my honda pcx says 10w30
my sym hd200 10w40
my sons kymco agiltiy 125 15w40
my sport city 5w 40

is three that much of a difference that i have to buy 4 different kinds of oil?

is there a oil i could use for all that is synthetic? and not have to buy four different kinds?

ggs34 · Post by **ggs34** » Wed May 21, 2014 9:34 pm

KrispyKreme · Post by **KrispyKreme** » Fri May 30, 2014 1:54 am

I've gone to the 10W40 Motul 300v. Great stuff.

JHScoot · Post by **JHScoot** » Fri May 30, 2014 11:59 pm

i take back all i posted otherwise itt and now say go with a olive / canola blend of 70/30

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Sat May 31, 2014 2:27 am

This one again? Several folks have already nailed down the two relevant items of discussion: 1), use whatever meets the specification in your owner's manual and 2), be mindful of recommended oil change intervals.

I used the Kymco factory oil for the first 200 miles on the Yager. The next three oil changes were Rotella at 600, 1200 and 1800 miles. Since then, I've run Bel Ray Expert 10W40 semi-synthetic, with changes at 3000, 4200, 5400, 6600 and 7800 miles. Last oil change still looked pretty good when we drained it.

The Kymco manual calls for an oil change every 2000km, or 1200 miles. I change out the oil filter each time as well, using a HiFloFiltro HF562. I bought a dozen when I bought the scooter, so it's not a big deal to replace it.

This regimen apparently falls on the "aggressive" side of most peoples' oil change schedules, but I do ride the scooter like I stole it and I did do a "Motoman" hard break-in on the engine. I've also done a few 100-mile highway runs at just under the rev limiter (1000RPM over redline) and the scooter hasn't demonstrated any ill effects as a result of doing so. On the kinder side of things, I always let the engine idle for at least 15-20 seconds before I ride off to ensure that everything's getting lubricated and if the cooling fan's on when I stop, I let the bike run until the fan stops before shutting down. On top of that, it gets washed at least twice a month, waxed three times a year and the brake fluid's been replaced twice since I got the bike.

An earlier poster pointed out that if you change your oil at the manufacturer's recommended intervals and use the recommended viscosity, use what ever brand you want, be it synthetic or dino-based and everything's gonna be all right.

I'm inclined to agree, and if you're still in warranty, it's a good idea if you want your manufacturer to honor the warranty should something in the engine fail. I've seen too many scooters at my local dealer where engine have failed due to oil loss, forgotten oil changes and clowns who turn and burn right out even before the starter's disengaged (still a lubrication problem).

One last point, if your four-stroke scooter doesn't have an oil filter (the strainer doesn't count, it's not fine enough), don't screw around with oil change intervals. Anything that can get though the strainer is still big enough to damage piston walls, valve seats, cam lobes and bearing surfaces.

kmrcstintn · Post by **kmrcstintn** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:14 pm

forgot about this thread...lol! just a few quick notes...when I still had a Buddy 125 (recently traded on a small displacement motorcycle) I would let the engine idle for 20-30 seconds after dismounting to let the fan cool the engine for a bit before shutting it off; also would let the engine idle for 15-20 seconds prior to riding to let the oil circulate (if it was a really cold start I would let the autochoke go thru its cycle until the idle came back down to normal before riding)

Neurotic-Hapi-Snak · Post by **Neurotic-Hapi-Snak** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:48 am

PeteH wrote:Break-in is less about viscosity and more about dino vs. synthetic. The first couple of rounds should be dino, as synthetic is too slippery to allow the slight intentional wear of the cylinder and piston rings needed to form the best compression seal. After that, synthetic is a great idea.

Not to sound like a dick, but this is an old wives'/mechanics' tale. Synthetic is no more "slippery" than conventional. It's like the whole syn is bad for a wet clutch BS, not true. The real reason to use dino vs syn for break in is cost, dumping syn at 500/1000mi is money down the drain. Hell, dumping syn at the 2000mi (okay, 1864mi/3000km) OCI recommended for the Stella is a waste.

kmrcstintn · Post by **kmrcstintn** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:39 pm

just to update...both motos are using a 'witch's brew' of various leftover oils for subsequent shorter mileage OCI's for 'flushing' purposes; the 'brew' is a mix of various 10w-40 motorcycle oils (conventional & syn blend), 10w-40 syn scooter oil, and 15w-40 heavy duty engine oils (conventional and syn blend)...OCI's vary between 500 miles (GZ250) and 1000 miles (Shadow) and thusfar shifting is good and the oil is doing it's proper job; when the 'brew' is gone I'm gonna start into a stash of Spectro conventional 10w-40 motorcycle oil for the Honda Shadow and NAPA 15w-40 for the GZ250; might use 10w-30 synthetic blend heavy duty engine oil for late fall/winter/early spring riding & storage (Shell Rotella T-5 or Chevron Delo XLE)

KrispyKreme · Post by **KrispyKreme** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 9:25 pm

Neurotic-Hapi-Snak wrote:
PeteH wrote:Break-in is less about viscosity and more about dino vs. synthetic. The first couple of rounds should be dino, as synthetic is too slippery to allow the slight intentional wear of the cylinder and piston rings needed to form the best compression seal. After that, synthetic is a great idea.
Not to sound like a dick, but this is an old wives'/mechanics' tale. Synthetic is no more "slippery" than conventional..

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 12:07 am

I freely admit that I Am Not A Petroleum Engineer.

That said, I'm only repeating advice I've seen over and over here on MB, offered by multi-scoot veterans, seasoned mechanics, and maybe even the odd petroleum engineer, if I recall correctly.

Do whatever works for you.

wheelbender6 · Post by **wheelbender6** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 12:11 am

Shell Rotel 15w-40. I heard that the 15w is for the clutch.

KrispyKreme · Post by **KrispyKreme** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 12:50 am

PeteH wrote:I freely admit that I Am Not A Petroleum Engineer.

That said, I'm only repeating advice I've seen over and over here on MB, offered by multi-scoot veterans, seasoned mechanics, and maybe even the odd petroleum engineer, if I recall correctly.

Do whatever works for you.

Yup. The dealer puts the first oil in anyway, correct? It's much more important the way in which you break in an engine.(adding flames

)

Neurotic-Hapi-Snak · Post by **Neurotic-Hapi-Snak** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:37 am

KrispyKreme wrote:
Neurotic-Hapi-Snak wrote:
PeteH wrote:Break-in is less about viscosity and more about dino vs. synthetic. The first couple of rounds should be dino, as synthetic is too slippery to allow the slight intentional wear of the cylinder and piston rings needed to form the best compression seal. After that, synthetic is a great idea.
Not to sound like a dick, but this is an old wives'/mechanics' tale. Synthetic is no more "slippery" than conventional..

Too much time on Bob Is The Oil Guy. If you want to know more about oil than you'll ever need http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

Synthetic base oil does have several distinct advantages over conventional:
-More resistant to thermal breakdown
-More resistant to oxidation
-Higher base Viscosity Index/better cold flow/requires less viscosity index improvers to meet multigrade requirements
-Less viscosity index improver polymers means less shear (viscosity loss, although shearing can increase cold viscosity)

Now a good additive package can make a conventional preform as well as a synthetic in all but the most extreme operating environments. And synthetic is not automatically better than conventional. Take Shell Rotella for example. Rotella T3 conv 15w40 and Rotella T6 syn have similar add packs, yet the T3 conv shears less than the T6 because the T6 has more VIIs to meet 5w40 requirements. T6 would perform better in very high engine temps, very cold outside temps and long OCI, but in a high shear environment, T3 performs better.

On a Twist'N'Go scoot, I'd recommend against using motorcycle specific oil, it's a waste of money. You don't have a wet clutch to worry about or a gearbox to shear your oil into water, and small displacement forced air cooled engines don't run as hot as large displacement (non-forced) air cooled Singles, V-Twins, Inline 2s/4s, etc... A good quality conventional or synthetic blend car or diesel oil will do fine, especially with the short oil change intervals scooters have. Shell Rotella is highly recommended, even among riders of shared sump bikes, Supertech (Walmart) oil is highly recommended on Bob is the Oil Guy as a solid value, I use Quaker State synthetic in my car, and currently have Resolute (Fleet Farm) 20w50 in the Stella (reg 2.25/qt, on sale 1.99). Often store brand oils are made by the big brands. With the big name oils, a good portion of the oil's cost is advertising.

On the subject of break in, I recommend changing the just the oil at 100-150mi, most of your break in wear occurs within that time period and you don't want all that metal in your oil for long. I changed at 150 and the oil was sparkly, ever since that change, no metal specks at all.

Most important thing to remember about oil is:
-Quality oil (At minimum must have a current API license (Starburst), currently SN. Manufacturers can claim it meets API specs, but for the API license they must prove it. Exception is Quaker State Defy, does not have current API license because it exceeds allowed Phos levels for SN. Things to look out for are API SA/SB rating, these ratings are from before 1950 and API no longer licenses them. All API licenses are backwards compatible, e.g. SN fulfills the requirements of SM/SL/SJ. Top off oil, this is basically additive free oil. Dollar store oil, often used oil or non-motor oil sold as motor oil. The grade being displayed doesn't match API requirements, e.g. 10-40 or 10/40 instead of 10w-40, API requires oil grade to be displayed as #w-#, as in number, dubya, dash, number, or SAE# for monogrades. Learn more at PQIA http://www.pqiamerica.com/)
-Correct grade and rating (e.g. 5w30, 10w40, 15w40, 20w50. Found in owners manual or often on dipstick/fill cap. Often manufacturers, especially smaller ones, only require a certain API rating, like SN or SM, larger ones, like GM, Chrysler, Ford, Honda, may have additional requirements/certifications an oil must meet. E.g. Dexos1/2 are the current GM oil certifications. Obviously on a scooter, they dont require much, but the requirements an oil meets are a good indication of the quality, although many manufacturers' certifications require expensive fees and testing to be awarded. BITOG is a great place to look up oils before buying. http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/)
-Regular oil changes (Try to stick to manufacturer's recommended OCI, especially in warranty. Out of warranty, you can pay to have virgin/used oil analyses done to determine when to change oil. On a oil filterless scoot (the screen don't count, it's not fine enough) always follow the manufacturer's OCI.)
-Quantity (Keep your oil level at the full mark on the dipstick. Your oil does more than lubricate the engine, it cools, cleans and suspends contaminants. The more oil there is, the better it can perform these functions. But to much is bad, it can cause too much oil pressure, blow gaskets and cause drag on moving parts that don't normally move through the oil in the sump.)

Modern Buddy

anyone using 15w-40 for Buddy 125/150 & what brand oil?

anyone using 15w-40 for Buddy 125/150 & what brand oil?

scootert oil