Hold onto your 2Ts and 4Ts - they may increase in price

Elder Scoot · Post by **Elder Scoot** » Wed Jun 11, 2014 2:03 am

I've heard (famous last words) that Genuine is not selling any new 4Ts. 2ts are supposedly going for high prices and 4Ts may follow. By the way I didn't buy any gold when it was first offered to the public for $35 and ounce.

Neurotic-Hapi-Snak · Post by **Neurotic-Hapi-Snak** » Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:02 am

I saw something like that, too. Hopefully not true. We need more retro shifty scooters, not none.

Drum Pro · Post by **Drum Pro** » Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:43 am

I heard that they are skipping a year. My dealer said that the 4T will be back....

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:09 am

Elder Scoot wrote:2ts are supposedly going for high prices and 4Ts may follow.

Not around here.

quen047 · Post by **quen047** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:44 pm

My dealer—SF Scooter Centre— is saying they are done. They have two 2012's in stock that have been sitting on their showroom floor for two years, so I guess I understand why (although they screen you pretty hard to see if you are the right kind of person for a vintage-style shifty).

Elder Scoot · Post by **Elder Scoot** » Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:04 pm

I heard that the 4Ts may be available by special order.

quen047 · Post by **quen047** » Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:06 pm

That would make sense and be fantastic. I imagine it might be up to the dealer to decide if they want to keep them in stock.

Neurotic-Hapi-Snak · Post by **Neurotic-Hapi-Snak** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:31 am

My dealer said he hadn't heard of Genuine discontinuing the 4T, he said he does know there aren't any in stock at Genuine. When I told him I heard that Genuine might skip a year, he said that makes sense and couldn't see Genuine discontinuing the 4T.

jimmbomb · Post by **jimmbomb** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:15 am

Isnt the Stella Auto also a 4t????
why would they stop selling them if they just brought out another one?
doesnt make sense to stop offering the 4t.

Robbie · Post by **Robbie** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:15 pm

The rumor mill has it, and I am now guilty of feeding the rumor, that Genuine has elected to not bring any 2014 shifties in in with the potental mindset of bringing the 200 4t shifty in for 2015.

Makes sense though......the old style Vespa 200's are getting old old old as are their operators.
A nice clean, 4t replacement with the same displacement may be what those folks are waiting for.

Regarding my 150 2t......runs great but a nice 200 4t with a hack alongside it would be just right for me.
Besides, the 2t needs a companion.

Rob

Elder Scoot · Post by **Elder Scoot** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 12:44 pm

jimmbomb wrote:Isnt the Stella Auto also a 4t????
why would they stop selling them if they just brought out another one?
doesnt make sense to stop offering the 4t.

Technically the automatic is also a 4T - but the auto has an entirely different engine as well as the CVT.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 3:48 pm

Robbie wrote:The rumor mill has it, and I am now guilty of feeding the rumor, that Genuine has elected to not bring any 2014 shifties in with the potential mindset of bringing the 200 4t shifty in for 2015.

I like this rumor.

jimmbomb · Post by **jimmbomb** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:39 pm

Elder Scoot wrote:
jimmbomb wrote:Isnt the Stella Auto also a 4t????
why would they stop selling them if they just brought out another one?
doesnt make sense to stop offering the 4t.
Technically the automatic is also a 4T - but the auto has an entirely different engine as well as the CVT.

right.. so technically, the title could have clarified 4t shifties... not all 4t's..

misterbrackets · Post by **misterbrackets** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:44 pm

Dooglas wrote:
Robbie wrote:The rumor mill has it, and I am now guilty of feeding the rumor, that Genuine has elected to not bring any 2014 shifties in with the potential mindset of bringing the 200 4t shifty in for 2015.
I like this rumor.

I, too, like this rumor.

But it makes sense for Genuine to do this if they are going to continue offering the shifty at all. The 150 just doesn't have enough going for it in my opinion to make it a better choice from the new auto version - for most people. But offer the manual shift with the 200cc and I think it has a chance of surviving along side the 125 auto.

I would definitely buy the 200 the minute it was available. I've heard it's not a huge difference from the 150, but an extra couple hp and that's good enough for me to want it.

jrstone · Post by **jrstone** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:52 pm

I heard it was a 300cc

Seriously, if they bring over the 200, I am buying one.

Neurotic-Hapi-Snak · Post by **Neurotic-Hapi-Snak** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:05 pm

I just bought a 150, but I would love the 200. What they need to do is make a 200-300cc shifter with a slightly larger frame and 12" wheels. Sort of like how Vespa put 10" wheels on the modern small frames and 12" on the large frames, up from 8" small frames and 10" large frames.

Elder Scoot · Post by **Elder Scoot** » Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:19 pm

jimmbomb wrote:
Elder Scoot wrote:
jimmbomb wrote:Isnt the Stella Auto also a 4t????
why would they stop selling them if they just brought out another one?
doesnt make sense to stop offering the 4t.
Technically the automatic is also a 4T - but the auto has an entirely different engine as well as the CVT.
right.. so technically, the title could have clarified 4t shifties... not all 4t's..

O.K. technically you are correct - but I believe folks on the forum make a distinction between a Stella 4T and a Stella automatic. In fact, on Genuine's site the "Stella" and "Stella Auto" are separate categories.

RoaringTodd · Post by **RoaringTodd** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:36 pm

My understanding is that any new "Stella's" would be limited to the same body style and size since they come from the stamping machines from Piaggio. LML bought those machines to manufacture the LML Star and Stella.

So - new stamping machines for a larger 200cc engines would be cost prohibitive.

200cc LML Star? Me likey.

Drum Pro · Post by **Drum Pro** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:17 pm

RoaringTodd wrote:My understanding is that any new "Stella's" would be limited to the same body style and size since they come from the stamping machines from Piaggio. LML bought those machines to manufacture the LML Star and Stella.

So - new stamping machines for a larger 200cc engines would be cost prohibitive.

200cc LML Star? Me likey.

LmL already has the 200cc out in Europe. It's their best seller so they already have the tooling to make them so really it's up to Genuine to import them....

RoaringTodd · Post by **RoaringTodd** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:36 pm

The frame itself - same for 150 or 200cc.

It's the engine that is larger, not the frame.

Neurotic-Hapi-Snak
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:05 pm Post subject:
I just bought a 150, but I would love the 200. What they need to do is make a 200-300cc shifter with a slightly larger frame and 12" wheels. Sort of like how Vespa put 10" wheels on the modern small frames and 12" on the large frames, up from 8" small frames and 10" large frames.

ankdworak · Post by **ankdworak** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 2:19 pm

Okay a 200cc 4T shifter would be great. But please put fuel injection on it.

Drum Pro · Post by **Drum Pro** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 2:22 pm

In the 200cc, there is another supporting bracket for that size engine. They are the same size, cosmetically, but the insides are a little bit different....

Drum Pro · Post by **Drum Pro** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 2:25 pm

Sorry Todd I misread the post...

Neurotic-Hapi-Snak · Post by **Neurotic-Hapi-Snak** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:20 am

Actually, thinking about it, the Stella isn't that small. So just 12" wheels then... maybe a 5 speed gear box

. Could you imagine that, a true highway vintage scooter?

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:53 pm

Neurotic-Hapi-Snak wrote:Actually, thinking about it, the Stella isn't that small. So just 12" wheels then... maybe a 5 speed gear box . Could you imagine that, a true highway vintage scooter?

Sounds like you have arrived at the "unicorn" by a different route (the Genuine Cruiser - a beloved myth on MB)

Neurotic-Hapi-Snak · Post by **Neurotic-Hapi-Snak** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:54 pm

Dooglas wrote:
Neurotic-Hapi-Snak wrote:Actually, thinking about it, the Stella isn't that small. So just 12" wheels then... maybe a 5 speed gear box . Could you imagine that, a true highway vintage scooter?
Sounds like you have arrived at the "unicorn" by a different route (the Genuine Cruiser - a beloved myth on MB)

Unfortunately, it will never happen. Rear wheel size is limited by the fact that the engine is the rear suspension swing arm and transaxle. The 10" is just small enough to miss the engine "link". A 12" would require elongating the engine/transaxle assembly, probably moving the mounting point for the engine link forward. The number of gears is limited by the width of the engine/transaxle case, 5 gears would require either widening the case, but there's not enough room, or reducing the width of each gear, which has been tried, you can buy an Italian made 5 speed gear set for the Vespa P/PX (I wonder if it works on the Stella 4T?). Making the gears narrower would require higher strength steel for the gears, and supposedly the 5 speed gear set is notorious for spitting teeth, although I have never spoken to anyone whose had it installed, just people with 2nd hand stories from a friend of a friend who heard it from a guy at the local rally. It's possible for a LML Star/Stella with 12" wheels and a 5 speed, but it would require significant redesign of the engine/transaxle and the rear mounting points, plus higher quality steel for the gear set, and LML is not known for the quality of their steel.

In all reality the 150 Stella could be a decent highway bike with an upgear. 1st is almost worthless in my bike, 2nd is a little better, I do most of my acceleration in 3rd and 4th. 4th gear puts the peak of the Stella's power band about 50mph, and it rapidly drops off, making getting to 55-60mph a slow process and limiting the top speed. Change the gearing to shift that peak towards 60mph, and you could cruise all day on the highway, and probably not lose acceleration since 1st and 2nd could now be used for acceleration at low speeds. This is why people who install performance pipes and big bore cylinders don't see very much increase in top end but significant increase in acceleration, they increase the height of their power peak, but it's still at 50mph in 4th, with a rapid drop off.

If the 200 is geared like this, I see it doing well in the US, since many of us have to use highways to get around. That's if they ever bring the 200 over, which is a big if.