Who here has NEVER had a crash/spill?

[snoozy]

Hi, folks! I'm a newbie -- a scooterless newbie. I've been researching getting a scooter and came down to a Buddy of some caliber as my target scoot. So I've been looking around this forum, and came across the Crash Reports thread It goes on for 32 pages!

Now, even though I don't currently have a scooter, I did own a '73 Honda CB175 when I was 18, and also have ridden both small motorcycles and scooters in Sri Lanka and Malaysia. And the only time I ever had a spill was in Sri Lanka taking a turn and there was sand on the road. (That was a new road condition for me -- in Seattle, we don't have sand on roads ) No injury whatsoever, just a broken brake lever, and there was a bike shop right across the street. (Coincidence?...)

If one reads the crash report thread, you would think that it's just an incredibly dangerous way to get to the grocery store. So here's a poll for people to chime in with some good stats...

[theemptythrone]

i haven't yet.

but sooner or later i probably will.

[Whimscootie]

Nope.

Now I feel like I've cursed myself!

[CapnK]

One of my favorite riding sayings goes like so:

Dress for the crash, not for the ride.

Having lowsided while 'dressed for it' - in no small part due to reading through the many pages of that thread - I can *fully* appreciate the wisdom in that statement.

That happened in one short stretch of road, perhaps less than 100' total. Yet I rode over 3000 miles this past year wherein I *did not* crash. So statistically, even those of us who HAVE crashed, for the most part have had many many more fun, accident-free miles than the other.

There's some I think cautionary encouragement for you.

[peabody99]

of course I hope I am not jinxing myself now . I am at over 42,000 miles so far. I think the MSF really helped, and I always wear a helmet (full face up to about 95 degrees, 3/4 in hot urban traffic),armored gloves, long pants (boots about 95% of the time), Armored jacket (99%)of the time. I wear armored pants on longer rides, but really I know I should be wearing them for my freeway commuting.

I really try not to get lulled into thinking I wont crash, and stay on top of things. However I deplore it when people say "its not a matter of if,but when" Statically this is BS, most riders go their whole lives without an accident. The people that make these statements generally tend to be the worst riders from my observation. I was actually on a group ride where someone made this statement and then said "I have had 11 accidents on my scooter, only one was my fault" . OK sure, pal, whatever you say.

[TVB]

It depends on what you count as a "crash". I've slipped on wet leaves going around a corner at 5mph, and there was an embarrassing incident in which I was walking my scooter with the engine running,* slipped on some ice (why I was walking it), and it dragged me a few meters down the driveway before I hit the kill switch.

Some say that everyone will crash eventually, and I suppose if everyone lived forever this would be true. But crashes aren't inevitable. Some you can't help – if you're in the wrong place at the wrong time, it'll happen – but you can avoid a whole lot of them by choosing safer roads, riding within your limits, learning what to do in an emergency, etc.

*Never do this.

[snoozy]

It depends on what you count as a "crash". I've slipped on wet leaves going around a corner at 5mph, and there was an embarrassing incident in which I was walking my scooter with the engine running,* slipped on some ice (why I was walking it), and it dragged me a few meters down the driveway before I hit the kill switch.

Some say that everyone will crash eventually, and I suppose if everyone lived forever this would be true. But crashes aren't inevitable. Some you can't help – if you're in the wrong place at the wrong time, it'll happen – but you can avoid a whole lot of them by choosing safer roads, riding within your limits, learning what to do in an emergency, etc.

*Never do this.

I would call that a spill. A crash I would characterize as either a collision or sideswipe involving another vehicle, or a fairly serious meeting of your moving scooter and an inanimate object.

[Tazio]

I had mine in the first hundred miles as a poorly executed panic brake and swerve which did only minor damage to my Buddy but broke a bone in my hand, stitches in the chin and lots of road rash. Now I go the Full Face ATGATT route.

Since then I've ridden 25,000 accident free miles in the last 6 years.

[DariaSen]

Only on my 2nd season riding but thankfully no crashes yet...but I keep myself in the mindset that it will happen and to stay prepared.

[snoozy]

I had mine in the first hundred miles as a poorly executed panic brake and swerve which did only minor damage to my Buddy but broke a bone in my hand, stitches in the chin and lots of road rash. Now I go the Full Face ATGATT route.

Since then I've ridden 25,000 accident free miles in the last 6 years.

What is ATGATT?

[slotrod65]

All The Gear All The Time.

An old man pulled right out in front of me at a traffic circle last June. The scoot went down, my head hit the ground, my shoulder hit the ground and I got a handlebar in the ribs. Because I was wearing ATG, I got up screaming at the guy, and drove home.

[Raputtak]

When I was a wee laddie way back in the1960s I had a Vespa Sportique and,yes, I came off it a few times: Once on ice, once on gravel, once on a patch of oil, and once on a slick-just-after-the-first-rain-in-ages road.

I finally learnt my lesson.

[az_slynch]

When I was a wee laddie way back in the1960s I had a Vespa Sportique and,yes, I came off it a few times: Once on ice, once on gravel, once on a patch of oil, and once on a slick-just-after-the-first-rain-in-ages road.

I finally learnt my lesson.

Was the lesson to ride a Stella instead of a Vespa?

I kid. My only crashes were on my Vespas. A low side in gravel in a blind corner on my Rally 200 back in '93, a low side on my P200 on trolley tracks in a downpour after being cut off by a car in '09, and a bent fender but no off later in '09 when I ran out of braking room in an emergency stop (rear brake only, front brake did virtually nothing back then). From all those events, I netted a few scrapes, a sore knee, two holed pairs of jeans and a damaged leather jacket. The Vespas always took the brunt of things.

[snoozy]

So far, it's looking like flipping a coin as far as being crash/spill-free. 50/50.

[Capt_Don]

I lost control at a stop sign the other day and laid the 170i down, it was raining and perhaps I was going a bit too fast. I know I was going way slower than normal. I went down hard and it hurt but the gear did most if its job. The one boo boo I got is all but healed. I needed new rain gear, it got shredded. I slid a few feet and the bike slid about five more on the wet pavement. I'd like to not ride in the rain but I've got to get to work and back.

The bike ended up needing a new left break lever and the windshield needed to be tightened.

[sunshinen]

Bought in 2006. No crashes. Was my only vehicle for 2.5 of those years.

Still dress for the crash.

[theflash784]

I bought my scooter three years ago and I am a recerational, fair weather rider. I took my first spill the other day in a gas station lot. I pulled up to one pump but it was out of order so I was going around to the other side, turned too sharp and spilled. I broke my left mirror and skinned my left knee and really felt stupid

I had a small motorcycle in my youth and didn't ride for many years but kept my motorcycle endorsement. If you are concerned about crashes, I would advise you to take a motorcycle safety course to built up your confidence before you get your scooter. I think you will find riding again very enjoyable

[Syd]

I've had a couple of little careless drops, but once a guy in a Mercedes pulled out in front of me while I was doing 45. He made me so mad I ran into him.*














*Not really. I tried to stop but couldn't. Totaled the scoot, and broke my collarbone in two, but that was it, not even a scratch on my helmet.

[Edwub]

Since ~Jan 2009 I've been primarily on two wheels for my commute. Thankfully no spills or crashes yet, but there have been a few close calls (one incredibly close to a major crash). 99.9% of the time I'm properly dressed.

[Dooglas]

So far, it's looking like flipping a coin as far as being crash/spill-free. 50/50.

No, crashes are not a random event. The very fact that you can look at the "who's crashed" thread and see a disproportionate number of new riders and error in judgment events proves that. An experienced and prudent rider is not "flipping a coin".

[ericalm]

We'll never have an accurate number of percentage of riders who crash. An MB poll will be pretty skewed.

Usually, when people ask about this, they're looking for some rationale or way to reinforce decisions they've already made. I know I did all sorts of (il)logical gymnastics to make sense of riding when I started. And a lot of it was based on common misinformation.

When EP_scoot figured out the stats from our Who's Crashed thread way back in 2008, we found that they were fairly close to national stats for all crashes. Still, many crashes are never reported to insurance or law enforcement, so almost all numbers from any source are probably under-reported.

Fatalities and injuries rose for several years until 2009. The drop coincided with a huge drop in motorcycle sales. But the numbers are climbing again.

The question is: Even if we had accurate stats, how would it affect your decisions? If —hypothetically — 30% of riders crash and 15% of those have more than minor injury, would you behave differently than if the numbers were 10% higher or lower?

The risk is very real and omnipresent. It's very common for injury to occur, even at low speeds. You can do things to reduce your risk but there is no way to guarantee you will not crash.

My gear has saved my ass, most recently a couple weeks ago. I was pulling over into some loose gravel and lost traction in my rear wheel. I've actually handled this situation a dozen times, but the tire was leaking and… whatever, my fault for not checking it. I laid it down at good speed and slid and rolled quite a ways. My pants shredded to the Kevlar, but I had no road rash. I rode away.



I'm not ATGATT but I also don't fool myself about the likelihood of crashing and the consequences. Stats are one thing, but I've been to the ER twice and have too many friends who've been pretty seriously injured riding.

[Neurotic-Hapi-Snak]

My only crash/spill was when I was turning around on a road first day I had my Stella. Pulled into a driveway and turned around, getting ready to pull back into the road. Drive way had a steep incline right before it me the road. Gave it too much throttle, let out the clutch too soon, panicked, let of the throttle but forgot to pull the clutch and brake. Coasted straight across the road into the ditch on the other side. Missed the trees in the ditch and managed to keep the scooter upright till the front wheel went into a hole. Threw me off the bike and lay the scoot down. Luckily, a husband and wife were just passing by on bikes, husband helped push the Stella out of the ditch. Got home, no damage but some minor paint scratches. Good learning experience, though. Took special care to master shifting into first and learning to operate the clutch and throttle to accelerate from a stop. Rest of the day and the next, I would periodically stop and practice it.

[snoozy]

We'll never have an accurate number of percentage of riders who crash. An MB poll will be pretty skewed.

Usually, when people ask about this, they're looking for some rationale or way to reinforce decisions they've already made. I know I did all sorts of (il)logical gymnastics to make sense of riding when I started. And a lot of it was based on common misinformation.

When EP_scoot figured out the stats from our Who's Crashed thread way back in 2008, we found that they were fairly close to national stats for all crashes. Still, many crashes are never reported to insurance or law enforcement, so almost all numbers from any source are probably under-reported.

Fatalities and injuries rose for several years until 2009. The drop coincided with a huge drop in motorcycle sales. But the numbers are climbing again.

The question is: Even if we had accurate stats, how would it affect your decisions? If —hypothetically — 30% of riders crash and 15% of those have more than minor injury, would you behave differently than if the numbers were 10% higher or lower?

The risk is very real and omnipresent. It's very common for injury to occur, even at low speeds. You can do things to reduce your risk but there is no way to guarantee you will not crash.

My gear has saved my ass, most recently a couple weeks ago. I was pulling over into some loose gravel and lost traction in my rear wheel. I've actually handled this situation a dozen times, but the tire was leaking and… whatever, my fault for not checking it. I laid it down at good speed and slid and rolled quite a ways. My pants shredded to the Kevlar, but I had no road rash. I rode away.



I'm not ATGATT but I also don't fool myself about the likelihood of crashing and the consequences. Stats are one thing, but I've been to the ER twice and have too many friends who've been pretty seriously injured riding.

Wow! That photo is a dynamic salesman for kevlar jeans! When riding in Asia, i never had any gear but a poorly-fitting, banged up helmet. Having read the crash report thread and this thread and many other websites about motorcycle safety, now i'm feeling very at risk without a proper jacket. Gone, too, are the days of my youth when I felt fine and justified even riding without benefit of endorsement or insurance.