Newbie Stella question

Deemotored · Post by **Deemotored** » Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:37 pm

Hi there! I'm new to the forum.

I have a Buddy 50 which I love but I don't ride very much. I've had it for 2 years and only have 900 miles. That being said I want to ride more but feel the 40 mph top speed is very limiting. Other than that I am comfortable on it.
I have been looking at a Stella, both auto and manual because I have always loved the look. I haven't tried a manual scooter before but REALLY want to. The problem I have with it is the off center, right side heavy weight and that I am only 5'2 so I'm on tiptoe. I also can't seem to get it on the stand. Is an after market kickstand a good solution?
The auto is center balanced, I can pretty much get it on the stand but I don't really like the color choices and I want to shift.
Anyone have some advice for me? I know...first world problems, right?

caffeine65 · Post by **caffeine65** » Fri Sep 19, 2014 6:36 pm

Welcome!

The Stella Auto saddle is pretty tall as well; my wife's 5'9" and she's definitely on tip toes.

As far as auto vs shifty, my opinion would be that the auto is better for getting around Las Vegas. It's nice and flat so you'll be able to go plenty fast enough, and get great gas mileage. Also better for all the stop-and-go traffic areas you've got out there.

EDIT: I should clarify shifting vs stop-and-go traffic = Not fun. I had my motorcycle when I lived there, and my hand would cramp up crawling along the Strip.

Deemotored · Post by **Deemotored** » Fri Sep 19, 2014 7:04 pm

Thank you for that! I hadn't even considered the horrific traffic. :/

Drum Pro · Post by **Drum Pro** » Fri Sep 19, 2014 9:18 pm

A kick stand is never a good option on a scoot. At some point the scoot will fall over. I'd say the auto is easier in traffic but the manual is more fun to ride. The manual is easy to learn and you should get it down in a hour or less. If you go the manual route, you should know that it's a "needy" scoot just like the old school scoots. The auto has a GY6 type motor and should be less fussy. Being 5'2" would mean you'd have to adjust your stopping style. Getting on the center stand isn't that hard as there is a trick to it. just use your left foot to put down the stand and leave it there. stand up and pull up the handle bars. Getting off the bike and holding it at the back makes it a bit harder.....

Deemotored · Post by **Deemotored** » Sat Sep 20, 2014 12:12 am

I will definitely try that! Thanks!

Wild Handyman · Post by **Wild Handyman** » Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:46 pm

Deemotored, I know that you aren't going to like hearing this, and I mean absolutely no disrespect, but I think that at 5'2" your inseam may be a bit short to comfortably handle either the shift or auto Stella because your feet won't touch the ground when you are seated. If I were in your shoes I would look to the larger-engined scooters in the Buddy line like the 170i. I believe the Buddy seat height is a bit closer to the ground than the Stella.

Deemotored · Post by **Deemotored** » Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:48 pm

Wild Handyman · Post by **Wild Handyman** » Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:52 pm

Sorry.

Drum Pro · Post by **Drum Pro** » Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:57 pm

I think if you really want a Stella, go for a vintage small frame. Good looks, the styling you want, and would suit your height.

PeteH · Post by **PeteH** » Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:00 am

Or even a large-frame: I recently bought a stock P200E, and can flat-foot it with both feet on my stumpy 30" inseam legs. That might not be low enough for you, but seats can be narrowed and/or lowered.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Wed Sep 24, 2014 11:05 am

Drum Pro wrote:I think if you really want a Stella, go for a vintage small frame. Good looks, the styling you want, and would suit your height.

A smallframe is a tough introduction to vintage.

Drum Pro · Post by **Drum Pro** » Wed Sep 24, 2014 12:49 pm

Ok maybe not one of my better suggestions but you have to admit they are all a little mechanically "needy" be it small or large frame. She could always get the seat lowered although I have no idea what that would involve..

caffeine65 · Post by **caffeine65** » Wed Sep 24, 2014 2:51 pm

If you're brave enough to do it yourself, motorcycle seat foam is ridiculously easy to shave down to almost any height or shape you want. All you need is an electric carving knife and an upholstery shop that'll re-upholster it for a reasonable price. I've done it before and it worked out great! Very easy and cost me around $80 total.

stASH · Post by **stASH** » Wed Sep 24, 2014 5:02 pm

Deemotored,
Don't listen to the naysayers. I'm 5'3" and ride a manual Stella with no problems. No, I can't flat foot with both feet while sitting, but that's not really a problem. When I stop, I leave my right foot on the brake, and put my left foot down. No problem. That works with the off-centered balance of the scooter too since you're leaning the bike to the left a little. I think the suggestion of customizing the seat by cutting down the foam a little is a great idea too.

I don't think Drum Pro's suggestion of getting the bike on the stand while still standing over it works for shortys like us, since in order to stand you must shift forward of the seat. Once you're there, there is no room to pull the bike backwards onto the stand. Anyway, I get off the scooter to the left side. Use my right foot to push the end of the stand down to the ground, and make sure both feet of the stand are touching the ground. Then with my hands on the handlebars, shift my weight back and pull the handlebars back. You'll get it with just a little practice.

You obviously have to go with what you're most comfortable with, but your height does not necessarily preclude you from the happy ownership of a manual Stella.

Deemotored · Post by **Deemotored** » Wed Sep 24, 2014 11:25 pm

Thanks everyone! I appreciate all the replies.

srbbnd · Post by **srbbnd** » Thu Sep 25, 2014 1:52 am

My girlfriend is 5"4 and drives my scooter no problem. Usually women have much longer legs than men. The only problem she has is using the turn signal with her small carnival hands. I think you would have no problem with safety other than maybe getting adjusted to using the turn signal. If you look at bicycle frames usually women seats are much higher than the opposite sex due to fact of women having longer legs. I think if you wanted a Stella it would be no problem other than having someone show you how to shift gears and make sure you keep the clutch in on first and not let go, ever... especially when you need to stop.

Deemotored · Post by **Deemotored** » Sat Sep 27, 2014 2:58 am

Please include picture of said "carnival hands."

What is up with the turn signals? I know they make a siren-y sound, but are they hard to turn on/off?

caffeine65 · Post by **caffeine65** » Sat Sep 27, 2014 2:08 pm

Deemotored wrote:What is up with the turn signals? I know they make a siren-y sound, but are they hard to turn on/off?

My Stella Auto doesn't have that "feature" but I've read that it's very easy to disable on the shifty models if you're bothered by it.

The ergonomics of the turn signal switch is one of my pet peeves about the Stella. I pretty much have to remove my hand from the grip a little to operate it.

Drum Pro · Post by **Drum Pro** » Sat Sep 27, 2014 2:13 pm

On the manuals they sound like a truck backing up. Not the best sound in the world but you learn to ignore it. Dunno what the turn signals sound like on the auto.

Deemotored · Post by **Deemotored** » Sun Sep 28, 2014 7:52 pm

I've finally decided to take the plunge. We will order the Stella's next week and sell the Buddy's hopefully soon. Thanks again everyone for all the input. I'm excited to start modding.

Drum Pro · Post by **Drum Pro** » Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:56 pm

Deemotored wrote:I've finally decided to take the plunge. We will order the Stella's next week and sell the Buddy's hopefully soon. Thanks again everyone for all the input. I'm excited to start modding.

Which ones? Manual or automatic. Anyway have a blast on the Stella.....

Deemotored · Post by **Deemotored** » Sun Sep 28, 2014 9:01 pm

Auto. Both in Black.

Makes more sense at this point given the weight distribution issue for lil ole me and city stop-n-go pain in the butt Vegas traffic. I really wanted to shift but it's not meant to be right now. In the future I wouldn't mind having a vintage project.

caffeine65 · Post by **caffeine65** » Sun Sep 28, 2014 9:40 pm

Black is the fastest color!

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:31 pm

caffeine65 wrote:Black is the fastest color!

I thought that red was the fastest color. Black is the classiest color!

srbbnd · Post by **srbbnd** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:24 pm

Clearly everyone knows Avocado is the classiest and fastest color.

Deemotored · Post by **Deemotored** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:10 am

That slate blue is the most perfect color.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:27 am

Color making a scooter faster...what is the matter with you people?

EVERYBODY knows that it is stickers and fender crests that make a scooter faster!

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:14 pm

BuddyRaton wrote:Color making a scooter faster...what is the matter with you people?

EVERYBODY knows that it is stickers and fender crests that make a scooter faster!

IIRC, stickers add 5hp...wait, isn't that for riceburners only? If not, I better leave the new bike's Battery OK decal, it's kinda pokey as-is and I don't want to lose any giddyup as-is!

tetsuo29 · Post by **tetsuo29** » Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:06 pm

Drum Pro wrote:The manual is easy to learn and you should get it down in a hour or less.

I dunno. I bought an '09 Stella about a month ago. I've been riding it nearly exclusively since then. In fact, I've only ridden my GTS250 once in that time. I've put nearly 400 miles on the odometer of the Stella and I still don't think I have the manual transmission mastered.

Maybe I'm just a slow learner, but it's a rare ride that I don't have a shifting issue. Most commonly, I either don't quite get it into 2nd before releasing the clutch. Sometimes I end up unintentionally skipping 2nd and going from 1st to 3rd. Every once in a while I have to stop before I've had time to clutch in and downshift to neutral and then I have to roll forward a bit to be able to shift from 4th back to 1st. BTW- I think this is one of the most dangerous aspects of the design of this manual transmission. Compared to a car where if I have the clutch in, I can put the stick shift in any gear 1 - 5, this old school scooter transmission is a bit trickier.

But, beyond those issues, even when I started to feel competent at going from a stop and getting from 1st to 4th and getting really good at clutching in and downshifting (not releasing the clutch just moving the handle to the appropriate position) as I'm stopping (so that I will be ready with the appropriate gear to start again), I've run into situations where I'm braking and expecting to stop but then it becomes time to go again before I need to come to a complete stop and I haven't yet gotten in the right gear, or I think I'm in 3rd or 2nd but I'm not really...

For instance, imagine you're coasting to a stop in the left hand turn lane. You've got the clutch in and you shift to 3d as you're slowing, then to 2nd. Clutch is still in. Due to oncoming traffic, you're expecting to stop out in the intersection before making your turn so you go ahead and move to neutral but then the situation changes, a car that was approaching turns right into a parking lot and is no longer approaching from the other direction, you see that you now have time to proceed through the intersection so you move back to 2nd, start to execute your left hand turn and let off the clutch and give it some throttle only to discover that you're not quite in 2nd and therefore still in neutral and now you're in the kill zone with oncoming traffic approaching. You have to wait a sec for the engine to return to idle and force it into gear and then accelerate. If you force it into gear while the RPMs are up it will lurch forward on you. This is where I realize that I still don't have the zen mastery of Stella shifting yet.

Maybe I'm a slow learner? Like I said, I don't know. Maybe it is me. However, I can't help but wonder if there's a reason why the dealers in my area have told me they don't expect to see the Stella manual return now that the Stella autos are out. I can't help but wonder if Genuine doesn't realize that there's enough to think about when riding around on 2 wheels that if you don't have to think about shifting that's just one more way to make you safe.

As a side note, when I've explained the ins and outs of Stella shifting to some of my friends that ride motorcycles with foot shifters, they can't believe that you have to have the rear wheel rolling in order to be able to move through the full range of gears.

TL/DR: I think learning to shift a manual scooter takes a lot longer than an hour to learn and be competent at.

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:23 pm

tetsuo29 wrote:As a side note, when I've explained the ins and outs of Stella shifting to some of my friends that ride motorcycles with foot shifters, they can't believe that you have to have the rear wheel rolling in order to be able to move through the full range of gears.

Having ridden both vintage Vespas and Stellas, I must admit, I prefer the shifting on the Vespas. Maybe it's a minor quality difference in the shifter box. Maybe it has to do with the quality or adjustment of the shifter cables. I do not know. Regardless of the cause, it just seems easier to mis-shift a Stella. Maybe the adjustment of the control cables was overlooked during the pre-delivery inspection. Perhaps your dealer just needs to give your shift cables a good adjustment?

The secret to changing gears with the wheel stopped is to release the clutch *slightly* when shifting. The clutch is not simply a digital control, with an "in-out" function. You slip it a bit when starting off for a smooth transition from a stop into movement. You can use that same slip technique to select gears too. A little clutch slippage will shift the driveline slightly and help with getting the gears aligned.

On the downshifts, be sure to rev the throttle slightly...just "blip" it a little just before you slip the clutch out. It'll make for smoother downshifts and be less jarring to the drivetrain.

tetsuo29 · Post by **tetsuo29** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 12:18 am

az_slynch wrote:The secret to changing gears with the wheel stopped is to release the clutch *slightly* when shifting. The clutch is not simply a digital control, with an "in-out" function. You slip it a but when starting off for a smooth transition from a stop into movement. You can use that same slip technique to select gears too. A little clutch slippage will shift the driveline slightly and help with getting the gears aligned.

On the downshifts, be sure to rev the throttle slightly...just "blip" it a little just before you slip the clutch out. It'll make for smoother downshifts and be less jarring to the drivetrain.

Thanks for the tips! I've already gotten a chance to practice the shifting with the wheel stopped technique you described. I don't know how long it would have taken me to figure that out on my own.

stASH · Post by **stASH** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 1:35 pm

I would definitely look into checking the adjustment of the shifter cables and making sure they are properly lubricated. I find that there is a very distinct click or clunk when the transmission is shifted in and out of gears. If your cables are loose or maladjusted you don't get that positive feedback from the gearbox. I think you should also work on releasing the clutch between gears as you are downshifting. That makes it easier to go from one gear to the next, plus, that ensures that you are always in the proper gear for the speed you are traveling. That way you don't have to think about what gear you're in if your situation changes, which could save critical seconds for emergency maneuvering.

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:12 pm

tetsuo29 wrote:
az_slynch wrote:The secret to changing gears with the wheel stopped is to release the clutch *slightly* when shifting. The clutch is not simply a digital control, with an "in-out" function. You slip it a but when starting off for a smooth transition from a stop into movement. You can use that same slip technique to select gears too. A little clutch slippage will shift the driveline slightly and help with getting the gears aligned.

On the downshifts, be sure to rev the throttle slightly...just "blip" it a little just before you slip the clutch out. It'll make for smoother downshifts and be less jarring to the drivetrain.
Thanks for the tips! I've already gotten a chance to practice the shifting with the wheel stopped technique you described. I don't know how long it would have taken me to figure that out on my own.

Keep practicing, check cable adjustment and you'll get it down like a pro.

Remember these are very primitive transmissions. That doesn't mean that they are bad. But there are no synchros, it takes a little more finesse with the clutch than a modern MC so it takes a little more practice and experience.

There are lots of posts all over the place regarding shifting. Do some reading and you will pick up additional tips.

I ride vintage a lot. It is still not unusual for me to miss a shift, find the false neutral between 2nd and 3rd...whatever.

For me the basic cable shift transmissions of vintage and classic scooters is part of the fun! Heck I used to enjoy driving a van with three on the tree!

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:19 pm

BuddyRaton wrote: Keep practicing, check cable adjustment and you'll get it down like a pro.

Remember these are very primitive transmissions. That doesn't mean that they are bad. But there are no synchros, it takes a little more finesse with the clutch than a modern MC so it takes a little more practice and experience.

There are lots of posts all over the place regarding shifting. Do some reading and you will pick up additional tips.

I ride vintage a lot. It is still not unusual for me to miss a shift, find the false neutral between 2nd and 3rd...whatever.

Hey, my new 4T has that 2½nd gear option too! Only seems to work on the downshift, though. Clutch is decidedly heavier than my P200, which I attribute to a modified clutch arm design. Fear not, will be wrangled and fussed with until it behaves right.

Raputtak · Post by **Raputtak** » Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:51 pm

A chap from Genuine at the Amerivespa gave me a tip. He suggested that I change to first as I stop, hold it still with the rear brake and put it into neutral. Then when it is time to go it will slip into first quite easily.

It works most of the time.

And yes, as mentioned above, a teeny bit of clutch will get the gears sorted and allow one to put it into gear, albeit with the signature CLUNK.

Wild Handyman · Post by **Wild Handyman** » Sun Oct 05, 2014 1:52 pm

Once upon a time when I rode my Stella to work in heavy traffic I found it best, when shifting quickly from first to second and from second to third, to pause a short moment between shifts to allow the trans to catch up with reality (I count to one in my head). It works every time; no more missed shifts and no more mystery neutrals.

Deemotored · Post by **Deemotored** » Sun Oct 05, 2014 7:59 pm

The order goes in Tuesday! Squeeee!
Does the dealer have to request the gift bag from Genuine or do they automatically send those when you order one? I saw a post from long ago about some stickers, a key chain and a shirt...? Would be nice to get some swag!

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:48 pm

Deemotored wrote:The order goes in Tuesday! Squeeee!
Does the dealer have to request the gift bag from Genuine or do they automatically send those when you order one? I saw a post from long ago about some stickers, a key chain and a shirt...? Would be nice to get some swag!

I believe that you fill in a card for your dealer and they submit it. Genuine sends you swag. Thank you for the reminder, I didn't get goodies with my new 4T.

Congrats on the new scoots, be sure to post pictures!

Deemotored · Post by **Deemotored** » Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:25 am

Hi all. I'm kinda bummed out today. We were supposed to pick up the scooters tomorrow but the dealer called and said they were running really rough. I guess they found a lot of sediment in the carbs so they are cleaning them out. We won't get to go back down there for another week due to work schedules and stuff. On one hand I'm glad the dealer was proactive in finding a problem but on the other hand I'm just pissed. How could 2 brand spankin new 2015s already be having issues? We are going to stop by there tomorrow to "visit" them and talk to the dealer. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

caffeine65 · Post by **caffeine65** » Sat Oct 18, 2014 5:47 pm

Deemotored wrote:...I guess they found a lot of sediment in the carbs so they are cleaning them out. ...How could 2 brand spankin new 2015s already be having issues? We are going to stop by there tomorrow to "visit" them and talk to the dealer. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

How strange. What did you find out after the visit?

I wonder if the trouble wasn't ECU related, like many many other new Stella Autos.

quen047 · Post by **quen047** » Mon Oct 20, 2014 4:42 pm

Deemotored wrote:Hi all. I'm kinda bummed out today. We were supposed to pick up the scooters tomorrow but the dealer called and said they were running really rough. I guess they found a lot of sediment in the carbs so they are cleaning them out. We won't get to go back down there for another week due to work schedules and stuff. On one hand I'm glad the dealer was proactive in finding a problem but on the other hand I'm just pissed. How could 2 brand spankin new 2015s already be having issues? We are going to stop by there tomorrow to "visit" them and talk to the dealer. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

I don't know about the Stellautos but my 4t had lots of niggling electrical and mechanical problems for the first 7-800 miles or so (which thanks to this forum I kind of anticipated). CVT aside, you are buying what amounts to a nearly 40 year old vintage design so try to be patient. There's a reason why carbs are archaic and it's great that your dealer is taking care of it now. You've got the two year warranty and you will likely need it but my Stella has 6500 more or less trouble free miles since that initial surge of trouble. Keep calm and you will have a great bike.

Deemotored · Post by **Deemotored** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:13 am

We went to visit the dealer on Saturday. They are doing great and being proactive. All will be well. I'm planning to get them this week.

Will post pics!

Deemotored · Post by **Deemotored** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:15 am

Oh and it was silt in the gas tank.

Wild Handyman · Post by **Wild Handyman** » Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:10 pm

You have a good dealer to have found that problem.

Deemotored · Post by **Deemotored** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:38 pm

Got the Stellas today!

BuddyRaton · Post by **BuddyRaton** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:05 pm

Nice scooter!

I know that the wait was hard. I once had a bike ordered for 5 months. It was delivered damaged after I was told I could pick it up.

It was a tough wait but so much fun when I picked it up!

Go for a ride and don't forget to give us that first ride report!

ENJOY!

Deemotored · Post by **Deemotored** » Sun Oct 26, 2014 3:23 am

Here is my "first ride report:"
It is SO different from what I was used to but I got the hang of it pretty quick. It didn't help that it was super windy today but I held on! I sit taller than on the Buddy. Acceleration was good, braking too. Basically I felt like a badass. Three thumbs up!
Side note: pretty glad I went with the automatic.

jimmbomb · Post by **jimmbomb** » Mon Oct 27, 2014 12:22 am

Congrats on your new ride!!!!!

jimmbomb · Post by **jimmbomb** » Mon Oct 27, 2014 12:28 am

Raputtak wrote:A chap from Genuine at the Amerivespa gave me a tip. He suggested that I change to first as I stop, hold it still with the rear brake and put it into neutral. Then when it is time to go it will slip into first quite easily.

It works most of the time.

And yes, as mentioned above, a teeny bit of clutch will get the gears sorted and allow one to put it into gear, albeit with the signature CLUNK.

Here's my tip..

well 2 actually..

when coming up to a stop...
as you're downshifting...
(NOT engine braking on a 2t)
slip from 2nd right into neutral instead of going to first, then N.
and brake the last bit or so...
this way if you choose to 'roll' it, you can pop right back into 2nd in a split second.
and when starting to brake.. I move my right heel onto the center column..
then the toe end of my shoe goes onto the pedal..
I do this now every time. it's an afterthought now..
your guys and gals try it... more comfy rear braking.
you may like it.

Best of luck with your new scooter ans WELCOME to the gang!

caffeine65 · Post by **caffeine65** » Tue Oct 28, 2014 3:12 am

Deemotored wrote:Here is my "first ride report:"
It is SO different from what I was used to but I got the hang of it pretty quick. It didn't help that it was super windy today but I held on! I sit taller than on the Buddy. Acceleration was good, braking too. Basically I felt like a badass. Three thumbs up!
Side note: pretty glad I went with the automatic.

Very cool! So now you need to cruise down to vintage bike night at the Arts Factory and show off a bit.

Modern Buddy

Newbie Stella question

Newbie Stella question

It's taking me longer