Greywolf, I agree that the expense factor is high. I already have the Cozy
hack but really am not interested in sinking more moolah in a more powerful tug at this point. While I like the Ural the 28/33 mpg and 60-65 mph would
be a major factor to me not getting one. Rich I ain't!!!
Setting up the TGB/Cozy was done by a riding buddy who is a master machinist and wanted to do it. He designed a floor plate assembly to accept
the connection. He got the set up correct the first time and I have had very little front wheel 'wobble' as a result. I paid for the material for the plate and
installation. He would not accept much for his time so I was not out a whole
lot for the set up. Setting up the Stella/Cozy is something he has already
mentioned. Would be a lot easier.
We also had a lot of help from my friend, Brian, who did the cutting and fitting on the R9i body.
I am hoping that Viney will check back in with the mpg/mpg stats on his Stella/Cozy rig.I want to thank Greywolf, Dooglas,and Viney for their input
and suggestions. This forum has wonderful members.
Wolfhound wrote:I try to stay away from aspiren type pain relievers unless it gets really
bad which is not often. I have not tried Myoflex but am getting good results with BenGay Cold Therapy. I spent 27 years showing dogs,
15 of them as a licensed Pro Handler. 30-40 weekends a year running around show rings did not help the knees much but I loved it. Do not spend your life working at jobs that you do not like!! And be wiling to try new things as you grow older. Keep us posted on what you decide for a tug.
Growing old is inevitible, being old is not.
I had a knee surgery last year after 13 month of surgery I started getting pain. Then a doctor friend of mine told me that its a cramp. He suggested me to wear jumper's knee while cycling and also asked me to knead after every ride !!
This thread just popped back into view. I have never really payed attention to fuel mileage, but it is definitely down with the sidecar in place. I have a 2T, but have added a SIP pipe, P200 air filter and appropriate jetting to make it all work. I use it mostly around town, and it has even been in a few parades with the local scooter club.
I would guess I am down around 50MPG or so. My top speed? it will do 55 on the flats if you push it there, but Rumbleslug cruises well at 45-50. The hills were murder with stock exhaust 35 MPH or so, and with the pipe and rejet I can do another 10MPH with comfort, well worth it. The sidecar almost necessitates a little engine upgrade. Though I would bet the 4T does a better job with the sidehack.
Speed is only a matter of money...How fast do you want to go?
Viney266 those are almost spot on to what I get on my setup. After 1000 miles my hack tire is shot. Going to put a hard rubber Chinese tire on as a replacement. Have a spare that I might run first. It is not a daily rider.
I have a 2013 Stella 4T with sidecar and I get 90 mpg with the sidecar and 110 mpg without it. I too can only get it up to 35 mph uphill about 50 mph on the flats. I did buy a Sito+ exhaust but haven't put it on yet.
I have a 2013 Stella 4T with sidecar and I get 90 mpg with the sidecar and 110 mpg without it. I too can only get it up to 35 mph uphill about 50 mph on the flats. I did buy a Sito+ exhaust but haven't put it on yet.
Count your self lucky then. Wait til you have to change a tire on it. My tire
is showi ngh threads now after less than a thousand mi8les, no prob, have a spare. go to remove the tire and find that the fender assembly has to come off first My next 3 wheeler is going to be a trike!!!
After some study of the problem I discovered that it was not as bad as I had thought it to be. Here is the trick to it. Remove the rear retaining bolt of the fender/side guard. Remove the central fender brace. Swing the fender up and out of the way and then the tire comes off with out any problem. This applies to a Cozy sidecar, don't know about others. Bolt on the new tire and rim, swing the fender back in place, replace the retainer bold and replace the central fender brace. Then you are good to go.
After some study of the problem I discovered that it was not as bad as I had thought it to be. Here is the trick to it. Remove the rear retaining bolt of the fender/side guard. Remove the central fender brace. Swing the fender up and out of the way and then the tire comes off with out any problem. This applies to a Cozy sidecar, don't know about others. Bolt on the new tire and rim, swing the fender back in place, replace the retainer bold and replace the central fender brace. Then you are good to go.
If you remove the spare and lift the rear of the rig off the ground a few inches it will come out the bottom. Its tight and you have to play with the angle, but it will. I've changed a stella spare on the roadside...26 minutes with hand tools ( yeah I timed myself,wanted to see how long).
Unless you have the SIP with the long pipes, they get in the way, look here for a thread on bending them a bit different so they clear.
Yeah, the rears don't last too long on a sidecar. I just mounted a michelin S1, and I put a small 10" knobbie on my spare ( gonna try it in the snow for giggles ). Lets see what sort of wear we get.
Speed is only a matter of money...How fast do you want to go?
Wolfhound wrote:Count your self lucky then. Wait til you have to change a tire on it. My tire is showing threads now after less than a thousand miles, no prob, have a spare.
Yes, sidecar rigs eat rear tires. But at least with the Stella, they don't eat CVT belts .
Good point, Dooglas. However, if they bring in the Stella CVT model all bets are off. My rig needs to have the lean out brought in a little but it can wait til next Spring. Wont ride it a lot before then.
After two seasons of riding, I thought I would post my impressions of what riding a sidecar is like. As I have yet to talk at length with anyone else that owns one and rides regularly, I am hoping that this will serve as a forum for discussions of sidecar related issues. I am posting this both for new riders and as a forum for other sidecar owners.
First, the basics: I am riding a 2012 Stella 4 stroke 150 shifty. I've got about 3500 miles on it as of this posting. Some of this post will be obvious to folks who ride with me on group rides, but for those considering a sidecar it will all be new information.
Everyone loves the sidecar. OK, maybe not the guys who you are riding with. You hog lanes, need tons of space through the corners, and you are ALWAYS the slow rider in the group. Plus you need gas twice as often. But everywhere you go, people wave, smile, and want to ask you about it. You can take your 93 year old granny out for a quick blast around the lake. The wife and kids can ride with you (at least while they are young). You can bring home the groceries, take rover along, toss in your golf clubs, whatever. Always a good idea to bring the big cooler full of drinks to share when you catch up to everyone else on a group ride. You can pack a tent and camping gear for a few days to take a trip. And folks who wouldn't dream of riding on the back of your scooter will ask for a ride in the sidecar.
Did I mention you will be the slowpoke? Even the 50cc scoots will beat you off the line. Oh, you will pass them, eventually. On a calm day, in the flats, my speedo reads 48. With a tailwind, 55. Downhill, 62. But sooner or later, you will have to ride back, uphill, into the wind. Sometimes I cant make 40 in that situation. Riding with a sidecar is STATELY. On the plus side, you will have plenty of time to smile back to all the people looking and waving!
Have you ever been snubbed by that harley guy when you gave him the biker's salute? I haven't. Harley riders regularly pull alongside, give a big thumbs up and wave, and then blast past. They will chat with you at stoplights. They want to know all about your scoot at rest stops. You probably don't get that response on a buddy.
You will use more gas. Plan on stopping twice as often as the other guy, or carry spare fuel.
Driving a sidecar is not like riding a two wheeled vehicle. It does not lean. There is no push-steering. It is rather like the tricycle you rode in the schoolyard as a kid, or like an atv. The techniques you use are quite different for negotiating turns and road hazards. A good resource for understanding the techniques can be found in the URAL riding manual (free on their website) and I would strongly recommend you read it and watch their videos on u-tube. The gist is this: you can't lean, so you must counterbalance by shifting your weight left or right to keep the bike level through the turn.
The inertial mass of the sidecar is always pulling on the bike when you accelerate, and pushing when you are braking. When set up correctly, the scooter should track straight WHEN COASTING. A small amount of toe-in compensates for the drag of the tire and wind resistance on the sidecar. When you hit the brakes, the inertia of the sidecar pushes you to the left( there is no brake on the sidecar wheel). When you accelerate, the inertia pulls on the right. this is the way all sidecars behave, regardless of whether it's on a harley or a stella (unless you get an Ural, with two-wheel drive and brakes).
You will wear out your rear tire fairly quickly. The tire scrubs off on the side facing the sidecar due to the toe-in. You can help extend the tire life by flipping it around at about 700 miles to wear on the other side. I would not rotate it onto the front wheel. The sidecar wheel and front tire will last a long time by comparison. Both of mine are still origional with 3500 miles on them, and show little wear.
Riding with a group can be a little taxing, for them and for you, because you need to blast down the hills to make it up the next one, and they are slowing down the pace so you can keep up. Tell them to go for it, you will catch up at the next stop sign.
Did I mention hills? Don't come to a dead stop on a steep hill with a heavy passenger. 8 horsepower isn't enough to start up again, and they will have to get out and push. Taking a linebacker on a ride in san francisco would not be a good idea. Taking a less mobile passenger would be a real problem. Try to maintain a little forward motion as you approach a stop sign. The term is a "rolling stop", and you could(possibly) get a ticket for it, but I've never seen a cop stop a scoot for this.
The stella 150 could use a little more "oomph" to pull the hack, especially with the wife and kids along, but I regularly go on 30 mile rides with the four of us. I've been told that shouldn't be possible, but it is. But anything you cand find to improve it performance-wise will help. By removing the big windscreen, adding a better exhaust, and re-jetting the carb to match it gave me 6 mph when riding solo.
This post is by no means definitive, and I hope other sidecar owners will weigh in on what they have learned over time. And if anyone with one wants to do a sidecar run, post it up or drop me a line!
After two seasons of riding, I thought I would post my impressions of what riding a sidecar is like. As I have yet to talk at length with anyone else that owns one and rides regularly, I am hoping that this will serve as a forum for discussions of sidecar related issues. I am posting this both for new riders and as a forum for other sidecar owners.
First, the basics: I am riding a 2012 Stella 4 stroke 150 shifty. I've got about 3500 miles on it as of this posting. Some of this post will be obvious to folks who ride with me on group rides, but for those considering a sidecar it will all be new information.
Everyone loves the sidecar. OK, maybe not the guys who you are riding with. You hog lanes, need tons of space through the corners, and you are ALWAYS the slow rider in the group. Plus you need gas twice as often. But everywhere you go, people wave, smile, and want to ask you about it. You can take your 93 year old granny out for a quick blast around the lake. The wife and kids can ride with you (at least while they are young). You can bring home the groceries, take rover along, toss in your golf clubs, whatever. Always a good idea to bring the big cooler full of drinks to share when you catch up to everyone else on a group ride. You can pack a tent and camping gear for a few days to take a trip. And folks who wouldn't dream of riding on the back of your scooter will ask for a ride in the sidecar.
Did I mention you will be the slowpoke? Even the 50cc scoots will beat you off the line. Oh, you will pass them, eventually. On a calm day, in the flats, my speedo reads 48. With a tailwind, 55. Downhill, 62. But sooner or later, you will have to ride back, uphill, into the wind. Sometimes I cant make 40 in that situation. Riding with a sidecar is STATELY. On the plus side, you will have plenty of time to smile back to all the people looking and waving!
Have you ever been snubbed by that harley guy when you gave him the biker's salute? I haven't. Harley riders regularly pull alongside, give a big thumbs up and wave, and then blast past. They will chat with you at stoplights. They want to know all about your scoot at rest stops. You probably don't get that response on a buddy.
You will use more gas. Plan on stopping twice as often as the other guy, or carry spare fuel.
Driving a sidecar is not like riding a two wheeled vehicle. It does not lean. There is no push-steering. It is rather like the tricycle you rode in the schoolyard as a kid, or like an atv. The techniques you use are quite different for negotiating turns and road hazards. A good resource for understanding the techniques can be found in the URAL riding manual (free on their website) and I would strongly recommend you read it and watch their videos on u-tube. The gist is this: you can't lean, so you must counterbalance by shifting your weight left or right to keep the bike level through the turn.
The inertial mass of the sidecar is always pulling on the bike when you accelerate, and pushing when you are braking. When set up correctly, the scooter should track straight WHEN COASTING. A small amount of toe-in compensates for the drag of the tire and wind resistance on the sidecar. When you hit the brakes, the inertia of the sidecar pushes you to the left( there is no brake on the sidecar wheel). When you accelerate, the inertia pulls on the right. this is the way all sidecars behave, regardless of whether it's on a harley or a stella (unless you get an Ural, with two-wheel drive and brakes).
You will wear out your rear tire fairly quickly. The tire scrubs off on the side facing the sidecar due to the toe-in. You can help extend the tire life by flipping it around at about 700 miles to wear on the other side. I would not rotate it onto the front wheel. The sidecar wheel and front tire will last a long time by comparison. Both of mine are still origional with 3500 miles on them, and show little wear.
Riding with a group can be a little taxing, for them and for you, because you need to blast down the hills to make it up the next one, and they are slowing down the pace so you can keep up. Tell them to go for it, you will catch up at the next stop sign.
Did I mention hills? Don't come to a dead stop on a steep hill with a heavy passenger. 8 horsepower isn't enough to start up again, and they will have to get out and push. Taking a linebacker on a ride in san francisco would not be a good idea. Taking a less mobile passenger would be a real problem. Try to maintain a little forward motion as you approach a stop sign. The term is a "rolling stop", and you could(possibly) get a ticket for it, but I've never seen a cop stop a scoot for this.
The stella 150 could use a little more "oomph" to pull the hack, especially with the wife and kids along, but I regularly go on 30 mile rides with the four of us. I've been told that shouldn't be possible, but it is. But anything you cand find to improve it performance-wise will help. By removing the big windscreen, adding a better exhaust, and re-jetting the carb to match it gave me 6 mph when riding solo.
This post is by no means definitive, and I hope other sidecar owners will weigh in on what they have learned over time. And if anyone with one wants to do a sidecar run, post it up or drop me a line!
My hack is a TGB R9i pulling a Cozy sidecar. Here in my area I am the only rig around. Do ride it sometimes with my Scooter buddies and it will run 50-55 mph on our secondary highways. I live in a rural area. Have ridden it in the Smokies . My tug puts out 10.5 hp and I run the hack with no windshield as it gets better gas milage that way. Your riding experience up hill and down hill is similar to mine. Folks will give you the wave, even Harley riders. I have a TowPac trike unit being made that I will put on my Buddy 170i when I receive it next week. The Buddy is a faster rig. The reason I am triking it is my bum knees. There is a guy on Modern Buddy who recently put one on his Buddy 150. Says that it did not affect his gas milage and only showed him down 2 or 3 miles an hour.
Growing old is inevitible, being old is not.
So be your self. Every one else is already taken!
I just want to add that you can eliminate the head shake/wobble by adding a VW steering stabilizer. I ended up purchasing the stabilizer from AutoZone and had the bracket made by a local welding shop.
thanks for the link to the modern vespa site, great info on the dampener setup. I have the column mounted dampener that came with the rig, it does a decent job but still wobs a bit if you try to go hands free for a sec. Hands on it doesn't shimmy at all. Opted for the 165 kit this fall as the 200 may never arrive, or at least not for a couple more seasons. Wringing another pony or two can't hurt.
Just added a Dr177 kit to my 2T sidecar rig this weekend, I left the gearing stock when I did the crank. I think this should do the trick . I bought my rig used and it had already had the steering damper that came with the kit installed. It does the job, but the VW style unit is a better set-up if you have the time.
Speed is only a matter of money...How fast do you want to go?
the supplied mounting screws for the friction dampener were long enough that they protruded into the column, eventually rubbing through and shorting out the brake signal. Once that mystery short was tracked down, I reground the fasteners to be flush with the column interior. This hydraulic setup looks like a better approach.
The DR kit on the 2T is really the bomb. We just did the Harrisburg holiday parade last week and driving there with stock gearing and the 180 kit was MUCH better. It now has the power to pull 55MPH and run 50 anywhere I want to go. I haven't conquered any major hills since the install, but I am looking forward to longer rides with the sidecar rig now, as I can do much more reasonable speeds. Stay tuned for winter photos of using it in the snow as well.
Attachments
sidecar small.jpg (151.12 KiB) Viewed 1878 times
Speed is only a matter of money...How fast do you want to go?
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... 358&type=1
The pic of the completed hydraulic dampener assembly, awaiting installation. I used 3/16" stainless and had it bent at a buddy's sheet metal shop. Did the drilling, grinding, filing, and polishing myself. About 3 hours total.
Our local dealer, Midwest Action Cycle/Scoot Jockeys, has made mention of a lightweight sidecar in trials for the 125. Naturally, we have yet to see one...I figure at best you could shave 35-40 lbs by using aluminum/plastic or rotomolded polyethelene, but you would still have to contend with drag, wind resistance, and the weight of your passenger. Check out the lml great britain site for info on all the folks who have thrown a big bore kit on the 125.
gburbank wrote:https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... 358&type=1
The pic of the completed hydraulic dampener assembly, awaiting installation. I used 3/16" stainless and had it bent at a buddy's sheet metal shop. Did the drilling, grinding, filing, and polishing myself. About 3 hours total.
. I bought my rig used and it had already had the steering damper that came with the kit installed. It does the job, but the VW style unit is a better set-up if you have the time.
