Gender Poll

snoozy · Post by **snoozy** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 10:43 pm

The scooter chica thread has me wondering what is the gender ratio of the membership here...

(edited to say: I had put in a choice of "unsorted" but it didn't take.)

KrispyKreme · Post by **KrispyKreme** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:02 am

I think you know the answer to this poll already. Since I did start the "Scooter Chicas" thread, I must admit it is sexist, in that my goal was to show ladies on scooters and other 2-wheeled vehicles. I can start a "Scooter dude" thread with me on my Buddy with speedos on if you like to balance things out.

ahorsewithnoname · Post by **ahorsewithnoname** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 1:18 am

Only the word "chica" makes it sexist IMHO. Membership mostly would show the ratio of male to female ownership of scooters. If we took a pole of male vs female membership on the Harley Tech Talk forum, I would expect a far greater number of male vs female Harley riders and even greater for motorcycles in general. Take the pole in England or Italy and I wouldn't be surprised to find a close to 50/50 membership split for scooters. I don't consider either the "chica" subject line or pole sexist, unless of course the poster is sexist.
Make any sense?
GGP

KrispyKreme · Post by **KrispyKreme** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 1:52 am

"Sexism or gender discrimination is prejudice or discrimination based on a person's sex or gender"

So yes, the thread was about female scooter riders. That means I was discriminating against males, no?

If I have a "Gentleman's room" in my restaurant is that room discriminating against females?

I think Snoozy's objection is the fact that the thread objectifies women, which was not my intent.

ob·jec·ti·fy

/əbˈjektəˌfī/

verb

verb: objectify; 3rd person present: objectifies; past tense: objectified; past participle: objectified; gerund or present participle: objectifying

express (something abstract) in a concrete form.
"good poetry objectifies feeling"

•degrade to the status of a mere object.
"a deeply sexist attitude that objectifies women"

My intent was not to degrade women at all. Quite the opposite, actually.

snoozy · Post by **snoozy** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:46 pm

Well, I wasn't making any assumptions about the gender balance here...I assume it is a bit more male, but I would like to know by how much. (I was once floored to find that I was the ONLY female member of a Toyota van forum.)

I do think that there are a lot of female scooterists, and have seen plenty posting here and on MV. Which is why the pin-ups girls on scooters is seems inappropriate. Not important enough to be offensive, but, like, "Are we really still stuck in the 50s and 60s?" As women, I think we need to call you guys on this more often. I mean, isn't this our house, too?

bluebessie · Post by **bluebessie** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 5:23 pm

What about "chica" is sexist? I hear or say 'hola chica" a lot!

Anyway, female here. Riding a Buddy Brit (without the Brit stickers) with matching jacket.

I was out today and my back was to a lady who said "I like your style" I turned and said my thanks. She was surprised that it was a girl riding. I guess she sees more guys than girls riding.

In my MSF scooter only course I took, it was definitely more females than males, but there were only 6 of us. In my neighborhood I see a pretty even mix.

snoozy · Post by **snoozy** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:50 pm

bluebessie wrote:What about "chica" is sexist? I hear or say 'hola chica" a lot!

Anyway, female here. Riding a Buddy Brit (without the Brit stickers) with matching jacket.

I was out today and my back was to a lady who said "I like your style" I turned and said my thanks. She was surprised that it was a girl riding. I guess she sees more guys than girls riding.

In my MSF scooter only course I took, it was definitely more females than males, but there were only 6 of us. In my neighborhood I see a pretty even mix.

It's not the word chica. That's just the title of the thread of pics of babes on scooters. But like I say, it isn't that they're terribly offensive, it's just maybe I'm getting old and don't have the patience/forebearance for "boy" stuff I did way back when. It got me wondering, is all. Just want to know what the general gender ratio is here.

bluebessie · Post by **bluebessie** » Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:04 pm

snoozy wrote:
It's not the word chica. That's just the title of the thread of pics of babes on scooters. But like I say, it isn't that they're terribly offensive, it's just maybe I'm getting old and don't have the patience/forebearance for "boy" stuff I did way back when. It got me wondering, is all. Just want to know what the general gender ratio is here.

I don't find that thread that bad either - says this 30something chick. I thought it was cool and would've added a pic of myself except I have none worth of sharing LOL

jrstone · Post by **jrstone** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:56 am

Nothing wrong with enjoying looking at pretty things. Scooters and people alike. That said. Tasteful is always better IMHO. Again, for the scooters and people.

KABarash · Post by **KABarash** » Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:03 pm

Back on subject;
My small 'circle' of those who ride is predominately male, it includes just four of us anyway. (me, my son, his friend, and a lady friend of mine)

ucandoit · Post by **ucandoit** » Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:00 pm

I'm interested in the gender ratio of buddy riders, too. Also, I'd like to know the break down in age of the riders. I'm a 61 yr. old woman who hasn't ridden in about 40 yrs. but am really enjoying getting to know my 125 Buddy. and learning the mechanics. I'd also like to know the ratio of 50cc owners and bigger scooters.

snoozy · Post by **snoozy** » Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:45 pm

Well I'll be 57 in a few weeks, and I had a Honda 175 back in college and have ridden motorcycles and scooters occasionally in Malaysia and Sri Lanka, but this is the first time I've owned one since college days.

skipper20 · Post by **skipper20** » Sun Apr 05, 2015 5:15 am

ucandoit wrote:I'm interested in the gender ratio of buddy riders, too. Also, I'd like to know the break down in age of the riders. I'm a 61 yr. old woman who hasn't ridden in about 40 yrs. but am really enjoying getting to know my 125 Buddy. and learning the mechanics. I'd also like to know the ratio of 50cc owners and bigger scooters.

I'm an 81 year old male who bought his first scooter (a brand new Yamaha Vino 125) in 2007 when I was 73. How many of you can top this? Anyway, I plan on riding as long as I can get in the saddle unassisted and I'm not a danger to myself and others. My children will tell me when that time comes and I will not argue with them. Well, maybe a little......

Bill in Seattle
'09 150 Blackjack
'12 170i Italia

sunshinen · Post by **sunshinen** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:07 pm

KrispyKreme wrote:Since I did start the "Scooter Chicas" thread, I must admit it is sexist, in that my goal was to show ladies on scooters and other 2-wheeled vehicles.

KrispyKreme wrote:I think Snoozy's objection is the fact that the thread objectifies women, which was not my intent.

I get that you probably don't mean to be offensive... but ...

This wasn't a post of real women who actually ride in the clothing they actually ride in. You started and populated it largely with photos of scantily clad women in provocative poses ... with comments like, "MM,"

That's objectification, pure and simple. (Posting objectifying images of men in there, too, wouldn't change that fact.)

Honestly, had I not had a longer history with Modern Buddy and came here and saw that thread... I wouldn't have joined the forum. And every time I see it, it makes me want to log out. I'm not against beautiful people on beautiful scoots, or against pinups, or even (ahem) other stuff... but there are places all over the internet for that kind of stuff. That thread feels both forced and clearly intended to be a place for men to ogle at, fantasize about, and comment on half-naked women, which isn't somewhere I particularly want to hang out or share pictures of myself or any women I know. It just doesn't say welcome to our gender-friendly, riding community to me.

sunshinen · Post by **sunshinen** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:36 pm

snoozy wrote:Well, I wasn't making any assumptions about the gender balance here...I assume it is a bit more male, but I would like to know by how much. (I was once floored to find that I was the ONLY female member of a Toyota van forum.)

I do think that there are a lot of female scooterists, and have seen plenty posting here and on MV. Which is why the pin-ups girls on scooters is seems inappropriate. Not important enough to be offensive, but, like, "Are we really still stuck in the 50s and 60s?" As women, I think we need to call you guys on this more often. I mean, isn't this our house, too?

In real life, I know far more women with scooters than men. So why are women less likely to engage on the forums?

I'm guessing

general feelings about internet safety/privacy,
lack of awareness about forums in general,
seeing threads like this,
perhaps generally being less inclined (or less encouraged) to do maintenance/mechanical work ourselves,
compounded by being discouraged with comments like "just take it to someone who knows what they're doing" when we do ask mechanical questions, and
that it's a bit self-perpetuating... getting to forums and not seeing a lot of other women on them.

But there's a reason the old version of pinkbike.com was so popular. I think many women riders are hungry for a community where they feel safe, encouraged, and enabled by the discussions.

KrispyKreme · Post by **KrispyKreme** » Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:54 am

While my tastes have been questioned many times, my integrity hasn't.

I am sorry for bringing a light hearted thread to this forum and having it ripped apart for what it is....objectifying women on scooters.....

Maybe I am having second thoughts about being a member of this forum, Sunshinen.

Maybe you should take a cue from your screen name and lighten up.

KrispyKreme · Post by **KrispyKreme** » Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:16 am

You will all be pleased to know I have decided to keep my forum membership.

I really do love you guys/gals.

Elder Scoot · Post by **Elder Scoot** » Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:33 pm

From what I understand about this and other forums readers have a choice whether or not to view a post. IMHO, while Scooter Chicas may not please everyone, the subject matter in and of itself was not in such bad taste as to be per se objectionable. Where it so, I have no doubt that our intrepid moderators would have shut it down. So the topic it falls into that universal grey area of stuff that some people like and some people don't. If some subject offends me and I have a choice - I avoid it. Nowadays I go through the newspaper in about 10 minutes - with most of that some spent on the comics pages.

This forum offers a great deal of useful information. If there is an NSR post and I don't like the subject I don't worry about it and I just move on to another subject.

Stitch · Post by **Stitch** » Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:46 pm

Ya. It's offensive if someone says it's offensive. And she just took the time to
explain why. Do we really need this kind stuff on MB?

Elder Scoot · Post by **Elder Scoot** » Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:51 pm

Stitch wrote:Ya. It's offensive if someone says it's offensive. And she just took the time to
explain why. Do we really need this kind stuff on MB?

I agree that we really don't need anything not relevant to scooters on this or any other scooter forum. That being said, from time to time on this forum we get an NSR post. When that occurs if the post violates the rules of the forum the moderators should take appropriate action. If, on the other hand, the issue is a matter of personal taste or sensibility then, at least for me, avoidance is better than censorship.

snoozy · Post by **snoozy** » Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:34 pm

jrstone wrote:Nothing wrong with enjoying looking at pretty things. Scooters and people alike. That said. Tasteful is always better IMHO. Again, for the scooters and people.

Maybe that's it in a nutshell: People are not things. Women are people, therefore, women are not things.

still shifting · Post by **still shifting** » Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:00 pm

And mostly, things have little value compaired to people. R

sunshinen · Post by **sunshinen** » Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:43 pm

I'm sorry for bumping this up... but I do want to clarify a couple things.

KrispyKreme wrote:While my tastes have been questioned many times, my integrity hasn't.

I am sorry for bringing a light hearted thread to this forum and having it ripped apart for what it is....objectifying women on scooters.....

Maybe I am having second thoughts about being a member of this forum, Sunshinen.

Maybe you should take a cue from your screen name and lighten up.

First, in my defense: The "maybe you need to lighten up" and "well, maybe your being offended offends me" are both pretty predictable retorts/silencing tactics for such topics.

That's one reason so many women don't speak up or try to sugar coat any objections in caveats and pre-emptive defenses of attacks on their character. But ... I'm pretty happy and confident in the amount of light-ness, joy, fun, humor, art, expression, and sensuality in my life -- so that's not going to make me feel guilty or defensive for admitting I had a negative reaction to that thread.

Second, in KrispyKreme's defense: I was not trying to attack anyone's personal integrity. I was genuine in my statement that I don't think anyone meant to be offensive. I do trust that the intent was not to be malicious, offensive, or harmful. I don't think anyone here is a bad or distasteful person.

sunshinen · Post by **sunshinen** » Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:48 pm

Elder Scoot wrote:
Stitch wrote:Ya. It's offensive if someone says it's offensive. And she just took the time to
explain why. Do we really need this kind stuff on MB?
I agree that we really don't need anything not relevant to scooters on this or any other scooter forum. That being said, from time to time on this forum we get an NSR post. When that occurs if the post violates the rules of the forum the moderators should take appropriate action. If, on the other hand, the issue is a matter of personal taste or sensibility then, at least for me, avoidance is better than censorship.

I can appreciate the non-confrontational, non-censorship view -- it was my first tactic in dealing with that thread. However, when one woman raises her voice and says "it seems inappropriate... isn't this our house, too?" -- I feel I have a choice... I can let her be the only one speaking up, or I can add my perspective. Here's why I think we should speak up.

I see this forum as a community, one where we engage with each other, share useful/not so useful info, rides, photos, etc... I know many women who have left sport groups, online groups, places of employment, etc. because they didn't want to make a fuss about some subtle sexism -- but they didn't like to be around it, either. I tend to stick it out in many male-dominated hobbies, which has allowed me to watch how very subtle sexism can shape the direction of a community by encouraging certain types of people to join and participate and others to ... quietly stop coming around.

For clarity, I don't think the thread needs to be deleted, I didn't report it to the moderators (clearly, they were on top of it from the get go... we do have excellent moderators in this group!!!); etc. Agreed, there are grey areas... But sometimes hearing people speak up about what makes for a negative environment for them can help us understand how those grey areas affect those around us. Sometimes, a little discussion is a good thing.

So, while I can appreciate the argument of "if you don't like it, avoid it" -- the flip side of that is that... I personally have gotten so much value from this group over the years that I don't want women (especially a new rider, who might be lurking and in need of our very great wisdom, advice, and sarcasm

) to show up and feel it is just another "boys will be boys" club and leave.

There were many ladies who say they weren't offended. I made my comments within that context. And I think that's great. I'd like to think there's room for hearing everyone's perspective. Then just maybe we can all make a more informed decision about how we as individuals want to post and engage with each other.

So a giant plus one on this:

still shifting wrote:And mostly, things have little value compaired to people. R

Sunshine and safe rides, my friends.

Post by **jrsjr** » Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:03 pm

Thanks, sunshinen, and everyone else, for your excellent posts on this matter. I simply don't think that the "SC" thread fits with the friendly, all-inclusive tone of the MB community. Like any community, we have our share of differences and disagreements, which is as it should be, but also it seems clear to me that the SC thread had the negative impact that I feared from the beginning. I also note that there are plenty of alternate forums where such threads are a better fit. Therefore, for the time being, I have moved the SC thread to the hidden forum where ericalm can deal with it as he sees fit.

We now return you to our regularly-scheduled, scooter-related prorgamming.

snoozy · Post by **snoozy** » Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:57 pm

sunshinen wrote:
Elder Scoot wrote:
Stitch wrote:Ya. It's offensive if someone says it's offensive. And she just took the time to
explain why. Do we really need this kind stuff on MB?
I agree that we really don't need anything not relevant to scooters on this or any other scooter forum. That being said, from time to time on this forum we get an NSR post. When that occurs if the post violates the rules of the forum the moderators should take appropriate action. If, on the other hand, the issue is a matter of personal taste or sensibility then, at least for me, avoidance is better than censorship.
I can appreciate the non-confrontational, non-censorship view -- it was my first tactic in dealing with that thread. However, when one woman raises her voice and says "it seems inappropriate... isn't this our house, too?" -- I feel I have a choice... I can let her be the only one speaking up, or I can add my perspective. Here's why I think we should speak up.

I see this forum as a community, one where we engage with each other, share useful/not so useful info, rides, photos, etc... I know many women who have left sport groups, online groups, places of employment, etc. because they didn't want to make a fuss about some subtle sexism -- but they didn't like to be around it, either. I tend to stick it out in many male-dominated hobbies, which has allowed me to watch how very subtle sexism can shape the direction of a community by encouraging certain types of people to join and participate and others to ... quietly stop coming around.

For clarity, I don't think the thread needs to be deleted, I didn't report it to the moderators (clearly, they were on top of it from the get go... we do have excellent moderators in this group!!!); etc. Agreed, there are grey areas... But sometimes hearing people speak up about what makes for a negative environment for them can help us understand how those grey areas affect those around us. Sometimes, a little discussion is a good thing.

So, while I can appreciate the argument of "if you don't like it, avoid it" -- the flip side of that is that... I personally have gotten so much value from this group over the years that I don't want women (especially a new rider, who might be lurking and in need of our very great wisdom, advice, and sarcasm ) to show up and feel it is just another "boys will be boys" club and leave.

There were many ladies who say they weren't offended. I made my comments within that context. And I think that's great. I'd like to think there's room for hearing everyone's perspective. Then just maybe we can all make a more informed decision about how we as individuals want to post and engage with each other.

So a giant plus one on this:
still shifting wrote:And mostly, things have little value compaired to people. R
Sunshine and safe rides, my friends.

Thank you, sunshinen! I appreciate the support. So many times in my life I have been the only girl, or the only woman, in an endeavour or sport or venue or whatever, and it is really nice to have a sister speak up with me.

KrispyKreme · Post by **KrispyKreme** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 3:37 am

jrstone wrote:Nothing wrong with enjoying looking at pretty things. Scooters and people alike. That said. Tasteful is always better IMHO. Again, for the scooters and people.

I saw nothing distasteful in the thread. I am also glad John took it down.

You won ladies. Congrats. You have painted me a sexist dickhead and made me a martyr.

I will keep my threads to scooter only from now on, and my scooter NEVER breaks down so you may not hear from me for awhile.

To those who liked my basketball thread and hot sauce thread, I bid you adieu. It seems some people don't like NSR threads here. I get it.

And in true fashion, a song for the moment.............

https://youtu.be/HC3AXQ8dPJM

Stitch · Post by **Stitch** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 4:48 am

Aaaaand...nothing was learned.

KrispyKreme · Post by **KrispyKreme** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:05 am

Stitch wrote:Aaaaand...nothing was learned.

Pot, meet kettle.

Stitch · Post by **Stitch** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:12 am

KrispyKreme · Post by **KrispyKreme** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:16 am

Stitch wrote:You forgot, you were taking your toys and going home.

I like this forum. I am a good fella, so I have heard,

The "toys" and "going home" comments really sparked an interest in me.

Those comments are mean. And common. And brutal.

Stitch · Post by **Stitch** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:45 am

Fair enough.

KrispyKreme · Post by **KrispyKreme** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:50 am

Stitch wrote:Fair enough.

Stitch · Post by **Stitch** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:02 am

KrispyKreme · Post by **KrispyKreme** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:04 am

Stitch wrote:Fair enough.

KrispyKreme · Post by **KrispyKreme** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:23 am

Stitch wrote:

Thank you so much for getting it. It's a hard road, mind you.

My animals(1 dog,1 cat), know so much more than me.

What I have learned from them is that, even in the most painful of situations, you can survive.

Keep grinding. Keep putting one foot in front of the other.

And the kicker? You really don't matter in the end. You are but a blip on the radar.

Stitch · Post by **Stitch** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 9:59 am

http://youtu.be/TiMO3PWziZk

snoozy · Post by **snoozy** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 2:39 pm

Aw, Krispy! C'mon now:I certainly did not call you, nor do I know you to be, a "dickhead". Indeed I don't know you at all. If you are a "martyr", it is only in your own estimation.

Sometimes, like I said, I just get tired of "boys bein' boys", and nobody says, "You know, it doesn't have to be this way." (I'm not even sure what the corresponding "girls bein' girls" might be, because I was always a tomboy.)

Elder Scoot · Post by **Elder Scoot** » Fri Apr 10, 2015 11:12 pm

jrsjr wrote:Thanks, sunshinen, and everyone else, for your excellent posts on this matter. I simply don't think that the "SC" thread fits with the friendly, all-inclusive tone of the MB community. Like any community, we have our share of differences and disagreements, which is as it should be, but also it seems clear to me that the SC thread had the negative impact that I feared from the beginning. I also note that there are plenty of alternate forums where such threads are a better fit. Therefore, for the time being, I have moved the SC thread to the hidden forum where ericalm can deal with it as he sees fit.

We now return you to our regularly-scheduled, scooter-related
prorgamming.

"Your Daily Scooter Girl" thread on Modern Vespa has as of a minute ago, 2,811 posts and 310,763 views. MV is a very politically correct forum with diverse and vociferous members. That thread has not been removed from MV. Since I oppose censorship in any form, my question to you is whether MB is more PC than MV?

Stitch · Post by **Stitch** » Sat Apr 11, 2015 12:06 am

MB is a private entity. Your rights to free speech do not apply.

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Sat Apr 11, 2015 12:25 am

Elder Scoot wrote:"Your Daily Scooter Girl" thread on Modern Vespa has as of a minute ago, 2,811 posts and 310,763 views. MV is a very politically correct forum with diverse and vociferous members. That thread has not been removed from MV. Since I oppose censorship in any form, my question to you is whether MB is more PC than MV?

I think that while the two threads have some similarities, the spirit of the two differ somewhat. It is also worth mentioning that moderation is quite different between the two forums.

The MV thread is aggressively moderated and postings are expected to adhere to the spirit of the thread, as spelled out by BurgerBob in the initial post. Violations are removed and violators may be ejected from the thread (if not the forum). Per MV's posting guidelines, the thread isn't necessarily discouraged either.

Moderation on MB is less aggressive and a thread of this nature could have quickly gone south if jrsjr hadn't kept an eye on it (thanks John!); aggressive moderation is not a hallmark of MB and shouldn't be required over one thread. There is also an element in the posting guidelines regarding "sex and scooters" which discourages threads like "Scooter Chicas"...heck, it even describes the sort of reaction from the fairer sex that was observed in the thread.

So, to sum it up, we're not exactly comparing apples to apples. If you're going to post, be mindful of the posting guidelines (for the forum you're posting on). Be respectful to others and treat them as you wish to be treated. And most importantly, there is a distinction between "censorship" and "using better judgment when running your gums in a public forum".

az_slynch · Post by **az_slynch** » Sat Apr 11, 2015 12:36 am

BTW, the poll options are a bit sparse if we're going to be equitable here. After all, Facebook has 58 gender options and that still doesn't cover all the bases:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense ... tions.html

Again, apples to apples. Facebook ≠ MB, thankfully. However, it just goes to show you that troubleshooting your non-starting Buddy is arguably easier than effectively managing gender questions in the 21st century.

srbbnd · Post by **srbbnd** » Sat Apr 11, 2015 3:44 am

I am offended there is not a hermpaphrodite option.

Elder Scoot · Post by **Elder Scoot** » Sat Apr 11, 2015 2:11 pm

Stitch wrote:MB is a private entity. Your rights to free speech do not apply.

Thank you for your statement of the obvious. I was more concerned with the growing trend of people shutting out ideas they disagree with - notwithstanding whether the exchange of such ideas occurs in a public or private arena.

I enjoy this forum for the technical information it provides on Genuine Scooter products. That's about it.

KrispyKreme · Post by **KrispyKreme** » Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:16 am

snoozy wrote:Aw, Krispy! C'mon now:I certainly did not call you, nor do I know you to be, a "dickhead". Indeed I don't know you at all. If you are a "martyr", it is only in your own estimation.

Sometimes, like I said, I just get tired of "boys bein' boys", and nobody says, "You know, it doesn't have to be this way." (I'm not even sure what the corresponding "girls bein' girls" might be, because I was always a tomboy.)

I was being a bit dramatic. I took it too seriously. I get a bit turned around on the interwebs sometimes.

KrispyKreme · Post by **KrispyKreme** » Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:19 am

az_slynch wrote:
Again, apples to apples. Facebook ≠ MB, thankfully. However, it just goes to show you that troubleshooting your non-starting Buddy is arguably easier than effectively managing gender questions in the 21st century.

As if the 21st century is any easier than previous ones.

ravenlore · Post by **ravenlore** » Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:47 am

Elder Scoot wrote:
jrsjr wrote:Thanks, sunshinen, and everyone else, for your excellent posts on this matter. I simply don't think that the "SC" thread fits with the friendly, all-inclusive tone of the MB community. Like any community, we have our share of differences and disagreements, which is as it should be, but also it seems clear to me that the SC thread had the negative impact that I feared from the beginning. I also note that there are plenty of alternate forums where such threads are a better fit. Therefore, for the time being, I have moved the SC thread to the hidden forum where ericalm can deal with it as he sees fit.

We now return you to our regularly-scheduled, scooter-related
prorgamming.

"Your Daily Scooter Girl" thread on Modern Vespa has as of a minute ago, 2,811 posts and 310,763 views. MV is a very politically correct forum with diverse and vociferous members. That thread has not been removed from MV. Since I oppose censorship in any form, my question to you is whether MB is more PC than MV?

The MV thread has made an effort to not get too heavy on the booth-babe, lad's mag type cheesecake. In fact, the stated preference has always been for women ACTUALLY riding-preferable even to gorgeous classy model pics.

Yes, there are model pics. But the nudity and suggestiveness is intentionally kept to a minimum.

Maybe that IS being more "PC"...the intent was simply to keep it classy.

KrispyKreme · Post by **KrispyKreme** » Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:57 pm

ravenlore wrote:
Elder Scoot wrote:
jrsjr wrote:Thanks, sunshinen, and everyone else, for your excellent posts on this matter. I simply don't think that the "SC" thread fits with the friendly, all-inclusive tone of the MB community. Like any community, we have our share of differences and disagreements, which is as it should be, but also it seems clear to me that the SC thread had the negative impact that I feared from the beginning. I also note that there are plenty of alternate forums where such threads are a better fit. Therefore, for the time being, I have moved the SC thread to the hidden forum where ericalm can deal with it as he sees fit.

We now return you to our regularly-scheduled, scooter-related
prorgamming.

"Your Daily Scooter Girl" thread on Modern Vespa has as of a minute ago, 2,811 posts and 310,763 views. MV is a very politically correct forum with diverse and vociferous members. That thread has not been removed from MV. Since I oppose censorship in any form, my question to you is whether MB is more PC than MV?

The MV thread has made an effort to not get too heavy on the booth-babe, lad's mag type cheesecake. In fact, the stated preference has always been for women ACTUALLY riding-preferable even to gorgeous classy model pics.

Yes, there are model pics. But the nudity and suggestiveness is intentionally kept to a minimum.

Maybe that IS being more "PC"...the intent was simply to keep it classy.

That MV has much more "model" pics than "real" riders. It's not even close. But I'm over my little fit about it. It was a childish response from me. No big deal either way. For the record I asked John to kill the thread awhile back.

Elder Scoot · Post by **Elder Scoot** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:49 am

KrispyKreme wrote:
ravenlore wrote:
Elder Scoot wrote:
"Your Daily Scooter Girl" thread on Modern Vespa has as of a minute ago, 2,811 posts and 310,763 views. MV is a very politically correct forum with diverse and vociferous members. That thread has not been removed from MV. Since I oppose censorship in any form, my question to you is whether MB is more PC than MV?

The MV thread has made an effort to not get too heavy on the booth-babe, lad's mag type cheesecake. In fact, the stated preference has always been for women ACTUALLY riding-preferable even to gorgeous classy model pics.

Yes, there are model pics. But the nudity and suggestiveness is intentionally kept to a minimum.

Maybe that IS being more "PC"...the intent was simply to keep it classy.

That MV has much more "model" pics than "real" riders. It's not even close. But I'm over my little fit about it. It was a childish response from me. No big deal either way. For the record I asked John to kill the thread awhile back.

The discussion, whatever the discussion is, should never be killed. Rather, it should be a process where whatever emerges, whether it be some agreement or stonewalled disagreement, is a function of intellectual distinguishing that is fundamental to all reasoned societies which includes people interested in scooters.

I've heard well-reasoned arguments to ban PTWs as being overly dangerous. Do we want to stop there?

KrispyKreme · Post by **KrispyKreme** » Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:43 am

Elder Scoot wrote:
KrispyKreme wrote:
ravenlore wrote: The MV thread has made an effort to not get too heavy on the booth-babe, lad's mag type cheesecake. In fact, the stated preference has always been for women ACTUALLY riding-preferable even to gorgeous classy model pics.

Yes, there are model pics. But the nudity and suggestiveness is intentionally kept to a minimum.

Maybe that IS being more "PC"...the intent was simply to keep it classy.

That MV has much more "model" pics than "real" riders. It's not even close. But I'm over my little fit about it. It was a childish response from me. No big deal either way. For the record I asked John to kill the thread awhile back.
The discussion, whatever the discussion is, should never be killed. Rather, it should be a process where whatever emerges, whether it be some agreement or stonewalled disagreement, is a function of intellectual distinguishing that is fundamental to all reasoned societies which includes people interested in scooters.

I've heard well-reasoned arguments to ban PTWs as being overly dangerous. Do we want to stop there?

Elder, I think this was me introducing a thread that was objectionable. Nothing more. Nothing less.

I appreciate your response, and it will not be lost on me.

I am a very liberal being. Things that would not offend me are moot in a public forum. Thanks again for your response.

Modern Buddy

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