Buddy running "rough" - Could it be the smoke?

Queenlian · Post by **Queenlian** » Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:46 pm

My buddy 125 seems to be running rough the past few days. Hard to put a finger on it but something seems "off". Something in the vibration while riding is more lawn-mower than kitten purr. Just doesn't feel the same. I cant put my finger on it. But it seems to have coincided with the smoke from all these fires here in the North West rolling into town. Theres ash covering everything. Could it be getting into my engine? Maybe clogging up my air filter? Would a clogged up air-filter cause my engine to run rough?

Maybe the airfilter is wishful thinking and I've got bigger problems on my hands? I know that the airfilter and gear oil are both overdue. Hell, everything BUT the oil change are probably overdue. I bought it used a couple months back and the last time the previous owner did any maintenance was at about 800 miles on the spedometer. Its at 2800 now. I just did an oil change last month. I'm doing the gear oil as soon as I get paid next week.

Anything else critical I should look at with the engine feeling rough for me? Answers like "Its totally just the ash in your air filter" are very much so welcomed. lol

ucandoit · Post by **ucandoit** » Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:43 pm

Hi. I remember the ash in Oregon during Mt. St. Helens. A clogged filter might be the problem, though so could other issues. 2800 miles isn't very much. Stay positive. Things should be in good shape, but you're right to look for the source of the problem now.
It's easy to remove the air box cover, take out the orange filter and have a look at it. Pay attention to the bolts holding the cover on. There are quite a few and they have different lengths. Changing the air filter was the first thing I did on the used 2008 Buddy 125 I bought. I got the bolts mixed up and had to print a diagram of the Buddy airbox, which really came in handy. It taught me to really pay attention at taking things apart. My air box also had a piece missing (shaped like a little fin) that the previous owner had put in the storage compartment for some reason. If ash is the problem maybe vacuum the filter. It's still pretty new at 2800 miles. Take care of the rubber gasket that helps seals the airbox. If you remove it, put it back in place neatly.
If the filter isn't the problem, then it may be the carb. as the scoot may have set too long unused. Some people tackle that by first putting an ounce of Sea Foam in a gallon of gas and running the scoot with that to hopefully clean the carb. jets.
The one thing I would care most about are the valves. But take it a step at a time and try the air filter. There are some good scooter mechanics on this site that can help you.

Queenlian · Post by **Queenlian** » Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:37 pm

Thanks so much! I will see if I can figure out the air filter side of things tonight to clean it, and at least rule it out. I go through a full gallon of gas a week with my commute so I'd be able to work some seafoam through pretty quickly.

I've heard it might be a good idea to do a thorough seafoam treatment on my whole engine because the oil I drained out of my scooter last month was like tar. I'm planning on changing it again at only 500 miles just to make sure to get any further gunk that was in there out.

I really wanted to take the scoot to a mechanic when I first got it but there aren't any dealerships nearby so I'm just trying to slowly teach myself all the maintenance stuff and learn how to work on it myself. If desperate I can rent a trailer and tow it up to Portland to Vespa Portland, but I'm trying to reserve that for last resort option. I figure the more I know and the more I understand the less reliant I will be on expensive trips to the dealership.

babblefish · Post by **babblefish** » Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:48 pm

If the oil was like tar, I hope you changed the oil filter too when the oil was changed...

Post by **jrsjr** » Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:36 pm

Queenlian wrote:... the oil I drained out of my scooter last month was like tar. I'm planning on changing it again at only 500 miles just to make sure to get any further gunk that was in there out.

Yeah, I think that's not a bad idea. Just a friendly reminder, warm the engine up a little before. You don't want to get it hot or anything, just warm it up a little so the oil will flow a little better when you drain it. If you're changing the oil filter yourself, ignore every piece of advice you've ever heard about how tight to tighten the oil filter and tighten it really snug. This site is littered with posts from (and about) folks, even professionals, who had their oil filter fall off after an oil change, dumping all their oil on the ground and destroying their motor. It's a weird thing. Search on oil filter torque and you'll find where folks have posted the correct torque.

Queenlian · Post by **Queenlian** » Wed Aug 26, 2015 5:32 am

Oh yeah, i definitely changed the filter too. And yeah, i dont own a torque wrench (high on my priority list to buy right now) but i was meticulous about tightening it down to where the previous filter was tightened to by touch which im pretty good with, and then I monitored the hell out of it for weeks. Like... Checked my oil level before every drive. Checked for any sign of drips on the filter. Checked the filter to make sure it wasnt slipping and was still snug. I think next time in going to grab a chalk pen and mark the filter and body so I can just glance at it with my gearlight to make sure the two lines always line up and havent shifted. But yes... I was aware of the filter spin-off issue and it instilled a VERY healthy dose of fear in me.

Oh and I did warm it up before draining too. It was still just gross. It hadnt been changed since 2010. It was solid black and the consistency of syrup. and there was only about 12oz in there. Not good news. The previous owners were only using the scooter in the summers and letting it sit all winter and never bothered to change the oil year after year because it hadnt reached the recommended mileage. 5 years without an oil change is too long though, even if you do only out 2k miles on it.

Poor scooter. At least it has a good home now!

thatvwbusguy · Post by **thatvwbusguy** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:21 am

Queenlian wrote: The previous owners were only using the scooter in the summers and letting it sit all winter.

Knowing that your scooter sat for long periods of time would lead me to check the jets in the carb before doing pretty much anything else. The entire carb probably needs a good cleaning to run optimally. All you need to clean the carb is a can of spray carb cleaner and a few basic hand tools, so it is really nothing to be afraid of if you are mechanically inclined and don't mind working with small parts.

Running a healthy dose of Seafoam for a few fill-ups might help to get the carb cleaned out partially, but is very unlikely to get everything as clean as a full inspection and cleaning.

The carbs on most scooters are pretty simple to take apart, clean and reassemble. Check out some videos on youtube for "GY6 carb cleaning" and you should be able to get a pretty good idea of how it is done. This video shows the jets really well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrJQ8AX_2OM

If the previous owner was really bad about doing maintenance, there is a good chance that your valves have never been adjusted. Again, this is pretty simple to do and only takes a few minutes after you have done it a few times. This video will show you how to check and adjust the valves: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vl1mrTVCQ0 Valves must be adjusted when the engine is cold. The valve clearance for intake and exhaust on the Buddy 125 is 0.08mm

Syd · Post by **Syd** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:52 am

ucandoit wrote:Hi. I remember the ash in Oregon during Mt. St. Helens.

OT, but I had a friend visiting the area at that time. When she came back she said she had spent the afternoon brushing enough ash off leaves to fill a small bottle. Then woke up the next morning only to see the ash a foot deep.

Queenlian · Post by **Queenlian** » Thu Aug 27, 2015 3:31 pm

thatvwbusguy wrote:Knowing that your scooter sat for long periods of time would lead me to check the jets in the carb before doing pretty much anything else. The entire carb probably needs a good cleaning to run optimally. All you need to clean the carb is a can of spray carb cleaner and a few basic hand tools, so it is really nothing to be afraid of if you are mechanically inclined and don't mind working with small parts.

Running a healthy dose of Seafoam for a few fill-ups might help to get the carb cleaned out partially, but is very unlikely to get everything as clean as a full inspection and cleaning.

The carbs on most scooters are pretty simple to take apart, clean and reassemble. Check out some videos on youtube for "GY6 carb cleaning" and you should be able to get a pretty good idea of how it is done. This video shows the jets really well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrJQ8AX_2OM

If the previous owner was really bad about doing maintenance, there is a good chance that your valves have never been adjusted. Again, this is pretty simple to do and only takes a few minutes after you have done it a few times. This video will show you how to check and adjust the valves: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vl1mrTVCQ0 Valves must be adjusted when the engine is cold. The valve clearance for intake and exhaust on the Buddy 125 is 0.08mm

Thank you for all the awesome info and links. Video tutorials are my go to cause that's how I learn best. The more I read the more I think it is the dirty carb. I haven't had a chance to look at the air filter yet due to having a VERY needy toddler every night when i've arrived home from work this week. I am hoping to be able to take a closer look at everything this weekend at the very latest and at least diagnose whats going on. Might have to wait till after payday to get some cleaners and sea foam and what not. I'm planning to pick up some gear oil and a syringe at that time too to get that gear box oil swapped out and fresh. Hopefully with enough time and effort I can get her running like new. She really has incredible low mileage considering her age. Its unfortunate that she wasn't winterized and cared for proper in her previous life.

Queenlian · Post by **Queenlian** » Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:07 pm

Air Filter looks fine.

I changed out my gear box oil. Just hit 3k miles and it hadn't been done since its first maintenance by original owners. Yay for another maintenance task learned.

I also added my first dose of seafoam to the gas tank and have run about half that tank through so far.

I also figured out that my top case was trying to make a break for it, which accounted for some of the vibration I was feeling. So I tightened up all those bolts.

All said and done, She is sounding a LOT better and feeling much smoother right now. I think a valve adjustment is still needed, but I am hoping the seafoam will negate the need to tear apart the carb for a full cleaning. I do not know if I feel competent enough to take on the valve adjustment, so I am not sure what to do about that. I wish there was a scooter shop here in Salem. I really dont want to tow the scooter to Portland just to get the valves adjusted. ugh.

DeeDee · Post by **DeeDee** » Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:44 pm

There are some outstanding posts on this forum walking you through checking and adjusting the valves. It really is not that difficult. You want to check the valves when your scooter has sat over night and is stone dead cold. A good time to do this is when you need to do a spark plug change. Having the plug out makes getting it to TDC easier. Search the forum and get the tutorial, get the correct tools and take it nice and slow There are plenty of youtube videos as well. This is for a Kymco, but it gives you an idea of how easy it is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eipDXgGdh6o

I check mine every other oil change. Sometime they need adjusted, sometime they don't. Learn to do it yourself, save the hassle and money of taking it in and make your engine last longer and run better.

Dooglas · Post by **Dooglas** » Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:14 pm

Queenlian wrote: I wish there was a scooter shop here in Salem. I really dont want to tow the scooter to Portland just to get the valves adjusted.

The Salem Harley dealer used to also be a Piaggio/Vespa dealer. You might talk to them about whether they still have a mechanic with scooter experience. Also, Raceway Ural/Enfield used to sell some model of Chinascoot and has been in the business of rebuilding Cushmans for years. It may be worth talking to them about what kinds of work they are willing to take on. And then there are Cycle Country Honda and Power Yamaha. Both clearly service the scooters they sell, and may be willing to service other brands. Just some thoughts. (We have our Buddy serviced by Vespa of Milwaukie - Oregon that is

)

Queenlian · Post by **Queenlian** » Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:46 pm

Dooglas wrote: The Salem Harley dealer used to also be a Piaggio/Vespa dealer. You might talk to them about whether they still have a mechanic with scooter experience. Also, Raceway Ural/Enfield used to sell some model of Chinascoot and has been in the business of rebuilding Cushmans for years. It may be worth talking to them about what kinds of work they are willing to take on. And then there are Cycle Country Honda and Power Yamaha. Both clearly service the scooters they sell, and may be willing to service other brands. Just some thoughts. (We have our Buddy serviced by Vespa of Milwaukie - Oregon that is )

Vespa of Milwaukie is still a bit too far... far enough to require a trailer rental and tow. I will look into the Harley Dealer and the Ural dealer though! I Know for sure Cycle Country wont work on Buddy's. They turned me down when I called about an oil change. Bills Motorcycle (where I usually drop in for gear) was willing to try to do an oil change on the scooter but they had no experience working on one and were going to charge me by the hour regardless of how long it took them to figure it all out so I kinda was like "meh... I might as well learn myself if I have exactly the same amount of experience changing the oil on a scooter as you do" lol.

But the Harley and Ural dealers are a good call. I had no idea they used to do scooters. There are so few scooters down here in Salem. Which is unfortunate cause we have WAY better weather for scooter travel here than in Portland. I think a dealer could do well down here.

DeeDee · Post by **DeeDee** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:57 am

Just because you take it in and pay for someone else to work on it doesn't always mean they will do a better job than you can do yourself. If you take it into a shop that doesn't know Buddys, you run the risk of them rushing through the work. A $10.00 an hour entry level shop tech isn't going to be all that concerned with torque setting or fluid capacities. Biggest Genuine dealer in Colorado used my friend's Buddy 125 as an example bike for a free tune up seminar. They did fluid, plugs air and oil filter. 75 miles later I was riding with her when the engine seized. Fellow who put the oil filter on, didn't take the time to torque it to 12 ft. lbs. All the oil bled out, and the motor seized. To ride is great, to ride and turn your own wrenches is outstanding.

Chicagomike · Post by **Chicagomike** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:22 am

DeeDee wrote:There are some outstanding posts on this forum walking you through checking and adjusting the valves.

Like this, from technical library: topic8312.html